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Posted: 5/10/2001 4:22:30 PM EST
Sorry about the rant guys...anyone who would care to be on the firing line for the p o s.....with myself......i CAN NOT (or...yes i can) believe that ANY media morons would even think about him being some kind of martyr.........WTF........"AMERICA NEEDS YOU...HARRY TRUMAN"......(CHICAGO...1972)........this country is in truoble..........[frag]
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 4:34:23 PM EST
Sorry......but i have absolutely NO COMPASSION for ANYONE who hurts (kills)....kids.....(i`m talking here, today).....scumbags, period....2 incidents this past weekend in the stupid city, have me FUCKED UP..........
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 4:42:35 PM EST
I really think executions should be done live on PBS. They should be done by firing squad. Also dramatic recreations of their crimes should be shown before the shots are fired. BTW, Timothy McVeigh did not know their was a daycare in the building. ATF knew who was in the Branch Davidian compound. The FBI knew who was in the Weaver's compound.
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 4:47:51 PM EST
Almost finished the book "American Terrorist", and I have to say that while it documented a good guy gone bad, I have NO sympathy for McVeigh. Is he misguided? yes. Is he insane? no. Should they juice this guy YES. I am an ardent supporter of RTKBA, but the day he decided to declare "war" on the federal govt was the day he became a traitor to his country. He only (only being used with some caution) 8 federal agents in his little "war" and obviously WANTED to be caught to become a MARTYR for future nutjobs. If I met McVeigh while he was in the Army, I may have bought him a beer and jawed with him. Probably would have got on like a forest fire & a flamethrower. If I saw McVeigh the scumbag terrorist driving a ryder truck, I'd take out my AR, pop in a 30 rounder and keep shooting till the bolt locked back and the mag was empty. Then I'd reload. SAMHAIN44 [-!-] FUCK THAT BASTARD PS - How about the Army and USMC personell that he killed that were in the Murrah bldg.? Does he now say sorry to those families too??
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 4:55:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By Samhain44: Almost finished the book "American Terrorist", and I have to say that while it documented a good guy gone bad, I have NO sympathy for McVeigh. Is he misguided? yes. Is he insane? no. Should they juice this guy YES. I am an ardent supporter of RTKBA, but the day he decided to declare "war" on the federal govt was the day he became a traitor to his country. He only (only being used with some caution) 8 federal agents in his little "war" and obviously WANTED to be caught to become a MARTYR for future nutjobs. If I met McVeigh while he was in the Army, I may have bought him a beer and jawed with him. Probably would have got on like a forest fire & a flamethrower. If I saw McVeigh the scumbag terrorist driving a ryder truck, I'd take out my AR, pop in a 30 rounder and keep shooting till the bolt locked back and the mag was empty. Then I'd reload. SAMHAIN44 [-!-] FUCK THAT BASTARD PS - How about the Army and USMC personell that he killed that were in the Murrah bldg.? Does he now say sorry to those families too??
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You`ve summed it up pretty good, buddy.....insane?.....i guess that is really not for you or i to decide........
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 4:55:32 PM EST
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but let me throw a conspiracy theory out for speculation. Circumstantial evidence only. Shortly after the bombing, there was speculation that the government had planted the bomb themselves in order to discredit the militias and by inference, the right wing and gun owners across America. At least in part, that result has been achieved. On a news program the other day, militia groups have declined by 80% since the OK city bombing. Part 2. Timothy McVeigh confesses to the bombing, says he did it on his own, but has the militia connections, etc. He doesn't appeal his death sentence and quickly pushes for execution...by lethal injection. Now, assuming you wanted to fake an execution, which means of execution could most easily and safely be faked? Hmmm, we'll fry you in the electric chair but only a little bit. Nope, won't work. How about we use just a little cyanide gas. Nope, won't work. We'll use a firing squad, but they'll all have blanks and the guy with the real bullet will only wing you. Nope, don't think that will work either. How about we put a needle in your arm and knock you out with anesthesia? With the right doctor to pronounce the "time of death" and cremation of the body, the "deceased" could easily go on to lead a new life after a little plastic surgery. To summarize this particular unproved theory, McVeigh, a government operative, was the scapegoat for the bomb. I've heard that the truck bomb he used wasn't enough and wasn't placed correctly to do the kind of damage that resulted at the federal bldg. He takes the fall, is "executed" and after losing a couple years of his life to the prison system, goes on to live a new life under a new identity, with probably a very large bank account. Before you all think I'm one of the nuts, I don't give this theory a very high probability, but a possibility.....?
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 4:55:58 PM EST
I think everyone that had relatives or loved ones there should be able to kick that scumbag piece of shit in the balls until he passes out, then wake him back up and go to the next person!!!! Anyone who thinks a stunt like that makes a point to the govt. is crazy!!! All their doing is fueling the anti-gun, anti-freedom idiots to take more rights away from law abiding America loving REAL citizens!!!!!
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 4:57:08 PM EST
Interesting to note that no one copied McVeigh, but school shootings are almost commonplace.
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 4:57:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By SS109: I really think executions should be done live on PBS. They should be done by firing squad. Also dramatic recreations of their crimes should be shown before the shots are fired. BTW, Timothy McVeigh did not know their was a daycare in the building. ATF knew who was in the Branch Davidian compound. The FBI knew who was in the Weaver's compound.
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SS.....they claim we live in a "humane" society..............whatever.......[frag]
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 4:59:51 PM EST
I can care less if he is executed or not, he didnt do anything to me. When he blew up the building, I said "cool". Some people act like the DP deters crime but it doesnt and to say anyone would want to watch him die or do it has never seen anyone die when they didnt have to. It take a sick fuck to want to kill someone when they did nothing to you, but I guess people got to get their sex drives somehow. about the US personel in the building, when I enlisted they told me I might die and could I handle knowing that. I said yes GG
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 5:00:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By SS109: Interesting to note that no one copied McVeigh, but school shootings are almost commonplace.
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Two compltely different senarios....of social problems right now.........
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 6:57:25 PM EST
Hey Dorsai, I understand that you think the "conspiracy theory" that you stated was "improbable". Flush out your headgear, man. McVeigh was a fucking nut, in league with other racist nuts. I'm not entirely convinced that he didn't have HELP, and more help than just Nichols and Fortier, but to even THINK that the US Govt would blow up their own installation and then cover it up does not make any sense what so ever. Lemme ask you this. If what you said is true, word for word, and someone found out about the conspiracy, don't you think that the US Govt would have a MUCH bigger problem on their hands than the "patriot" movement of the mid 90's? The whole fucking country would go into open revolt, knowing that their govt murdered 168 of it's own people!!!! Try this on for size instead. McVeigh planted the bomb, and blew it up, with some possible milita connection help. He ratted on Fortier and Nichols because they backed out on him in the last minute. He's been so quiet and wanted to go to death row because: 1) it makes him a martyr, and 2) he can protect anyone else who helped him. That I'll buy SAMHAIN44
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 6:58:35 PM EST
heh at least with lethal injection the chemicals are so harsh the kinda cook your insides
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 7:00:29 PM EST
And oh yeah, When you see a hoofprint on the ground, think horse, not zebra. SAMHAIN44
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 7:24:57 PM EST
Too many people that know a lot about explosives, and too many independent experts have said that his bomb couldn't have done that damage. I can not believe that he did not have some major league help. I want him alive long enough to tell us who helped, that's all.
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 7:48:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2001 7:52:04 PM EST by CPL_Punishment]
Combat engineers as well as infantry are taught how to construct and employ explosive charges. Basically the truck was one big cratering charge. A 40lb cratering charges can do serious damage, what more with a whole darn truck packed with ammonium nitrate. So yes I believe his bomb did that damage, and i dont think there was a conspiracy involving "major league" help. Not saying I condone his actions, but I am impressed with the damage his explosive was able to create. Essayons!
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 7:55:31 PM EST
He should die and die he will but what is wrong with a govt. that can drive a former faithful servent to lash out like that? Is it the last time? I hope so but I don't think so.
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 7:59:49 PM EST
When he blew up the building, I said "cool". - Gun Guru, Junior Member WTF??????????, Ahhhh... you're OTL pal, waaaayyy off base. Do you have anything resembling a soul? Or has Satan inhabited it already? Sheeesh!
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 8:03:00 PM EST
when people drift through here and call McVeigh a patriot i wanna fu*king kill them
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 8:12:39 PM EST
Has anybody heard the latest on this subject? It is being reported that the FBI withheld documents from the defense during the diclosure phase of the trial. They are saying that these docs have no bearing on the outcome but McVeigh's lawyers are considering requesting a stay..... here is the link to the full story: [url]http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010511/ts/mcveigh_request_dc_4.html[/url] Just thought I'd toss this news into the mix.... [sniper] [b]The Sniper
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 8:41:15 PM EST
from the look of all your blood-thirsty comments it appears that many here are for the death penalty. IMHO, it should be abolished... two wrongs dont make a right. Promoting the death penalty would not reflect how a civil society should act, only to further the savage policies perpetuated by our government. Tim McViegh should not be executed, God will punish him eventually.
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 9:12:08 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 3:26:28 AM EST
from the look of all your blood-thirsty comments it appears that many here are for the death penalty. IMHO, it should be abolished... two wrongs dont make a right.
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So then we shouldn't have any criminal penalties at all? Depriving someone of money and/or freedom is also wrong. Since "two wrongs don't make a right", we shouldn't use fines or incarceration either, then, right?
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 4:03:11 AM EST
Everyone around here talks big shit about the Govt. better not cross their own personal line in the sand. The way I see it, McVeigh was convinced that they had crossed his! And, yes, that was one hella impressive explosion. No, I personally would never attempt such. But, wtf, why didn't all the bleeding heart liberals give a damn about all the kids that Klinton/Reno took out. American society has a tendency to easily forget history, so McVeigh will never be a Martyr for his cause. The media will see to that. But, you can damn sure believe that a small minority group of patriots will look back at the day McVeigh stood up against the Tyrannical leeches. It won't really matter until the day arrives that people are out of sand in which to draw a fresh line. It will be too late at that point. Chew on that for a while.
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 4:23:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bush Hamster: from the look of all your blood-thirsty comments it appears that many here are for the death penalty. IMHO, it should be abolished... two wrongs dont make a right. Promoting the death penalty would not reflect how a civil society should act, only to further the savage policies perpetuated by our government. Tim McViegh should not be executed, God will punish him eventually.
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With all due respect, Total HorseShit!!! Anyone who does mayhem to this degree deserves the Death Penalty, period. It is societies way to make sure, totally sure, that these people who go over the top never, ever get another chance to do it again. And I do believe that Timmy would have done it again, and again...just like Teddy Bundy did...
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 4:24:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/11/2001 4:27:52 AM EST by Sixtus]
Originally Posted By Samhain44: Hey Dorsai, I understand that you think the "conspiracy theory" that you stated was "improbable". Flush out your headgear, man. McVeigh was a fucking nut, in league with other racist nuts. I'm not entirely convinced that he didn't have HELP, and more help than just Nichols and Fortier, but to even THINK that the US Govt would blow up their own installation and then cover it up does not make any sense what so ever. Lemme ask you this. If what you said is true, word for word, and someone found out about the conspiracy, don't you think that the US Govt would have a MUCH bigger problem on their hands than the "patriot" movement of the mid 90's? The whole fucking country would go into open revolt, knowing that their govt murdered 168 of it's own people!!!! Try this on for size instead. McVeigh planted the bomb, and blew it up, with some possible milita connection help. He ratted on Fortier and Nichols because they backed out on him in the last minute. He's been so quiet and wanted to go to death row because: 1) it makes him a martyr, and 2) he can protect anyone else who helped him. That I'll buy SAMHAIN44
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I agree with your McVeigh comments, but where does "racist nuts" fit into the equation. We shouldn't give racebaiting black leaders ammunition. They are wealthy enough. The racist thing is getting old already, don't you agree?
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 4:25:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/11/2001 5:06:41 AM EST by Sixtus]
Originally Posted By Samhain44: Hey Dorsai, I understand that you think the "conspiracy theory" that you stated was "improbable". Flush out your headgear, man. McVeigh was a fucking nut, in league with other racist nuts. I'm not entirely convinced that he didn't have HELP, and more help than just Nichols and Fortier, but to even THINK that the US Govt would blow up their own installation and then cover it up does not make any sense what so ever. Lemme ask you this. If what you said is true, word for word, and someone found out about the conspiracy, don't you think that the US Govt would have a MUCH bigger problem on their hands than the "patriot" movement of the mid 90's? The whole fucking country would go into open revolt, knowing that their govt murdered 168 of it's own people!!!! Try this on for size instead. McVeigh planted the bomb, and blew it up, with some possible milita connection help. He ratted on Fortier and Nichols because they backed out on him in the last minute. He's been so quiet and wanted to go to death row because: 1) it makes him a martyr, and 2) he can protect anyone else who helped him. That I'll buy SAMHAIN44
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I agree with your McVeigh comments, but where does "racist nuts" fit into the equation. We shouldn't give racebaiting black leaders ammunition. They are wealthy enough. The racist thing is getting old already, don't you agree?
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 4:26:16 AM EST
I compare McVeigh with Hitler. Right idea, wrong target. Now if he would have taken out Klinton or Reno he would be a national hero. If Hitler would have committed genocide on the blacks he'd have been a world hero.
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 4:34:32 AM EST
What he did is unforgivable and inexcusable. I look into my daughters eyes and think what if? and I know he has to pay with his life. But I kinda feel for him in a way. He loved his country, went to war for it and somwhere along the line he became disillusioned to the extreme. Now he has to die for it. What a waste. Ruby Ridge, Waco, The gun grabbers etc. have made us all do a little soul searching. He made his own choices and is now facing his own death and trying to do it stoicly. When he takes that long walk I'll bet he wishes could turn back the years. It brings to mind a song by Merle Haggard called "Sing me back home"
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 5:04:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/11/2001 5:15:52 AM EST by Sixtus]
I heard on the radio that McVeigh will be placed under a sheet. If it is true, conspiracy theories by the thousands will certainly be born. Maybe by purposely inviting thousands of conspiracy scenarios it is easier to hide the truth. I am sorry to say I have lost faith in my gobment, and I don't believe a damn thing it says. We are on the NWO train, the conductor just hasn't punched our ticket yet.
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 6:15:27 AM EST
Another man bombed a large building. In it were many men, women and children - most of them innocents that were only "doing their job". It was in the forties and there was much outrage. The man was Menachem Begin - hero and later Prime Minister of Israel and his target was the King David Hotel filled with British and their families. Guess the difference between a terrorist and a patriot is who wins the war. Just a thought.
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 6:36:50 AM EST
I am sick of so-called 'experts' who say that the truck bomb could not have done that damage. Others say the bomb was actually inside the building. If that was so, it would have blown out all four walls and pancaked the building. The damage started low and narrow and got deeper and wider as it went up, thus the truck parked in front. As for those that don't believe that the truck could not have had enough explosives, look at the truck bomb on the Marine housing in Lebanon. For the guy on here who said it was 'cool' when he heard about the explosion, I say go to hell you jerk. And McViegh did know there was a day care there. Comparing this to Waco is ridiculous. I know this will be unpopular to say, but regardless of how the whole deal at Waco got started or why, Koresh had more than ample time to send those kids out to safety. What about the reports that the kids had been shot in the head? More propoganda?
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 7:01:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By Reloader: If Hitler would have committed genocide on the blacks he'd have been a world hero.
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What kind of crap is this? I'll say this much -- Tim McVeigh is a couple notches higher up on my scale than anybody who makes comments like this. Despite all the media attempts to link McVeigh, so-called "militia groups," Republicans, and white supremists together as birds of a feather, I have never heard or read that McVeigh has said one word against people of other races. In fact, some of his comments show considerable empathy towards people in foreign countries. McVeigh's actions were all screwed up, but as far as I can tell his motivations were right on the money. I see no similarity to Hitler at all. Now, maybe John Brown...
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 7:31:44 AM EST
2 points to make. 1) Anyone who thinks that what McVeigh did was "cool" or "justified" can stop by my place anytime for some debriefing and re-education training. Please bring your own medical insurance and first-aid. (actually, don't bother, you're going to be stuffed down my garbage disposal anyway...)We have ELECTIONS and FREE SPEECH in this country to change opinions assholes. Don't blow up buildings. It's not nice. 2) While McVeigh has said that he did what he did only on the basis of the 2nd Ammendment protection and that he thought the US was a govt that should be overthrown because it is tyrannical, he has shown racial bias in the past. i.e. - calling other soldiers "niggers" while in the army & getting in fights with them, handing out white supremacist literature to lots of people, from his days in the army to the gun show circut(and not just Turner Diaries), and his contact with aryan nations and national alliance. Now, while it's not against the law to think that way, you can't tell me that those beliefs didn't play into his overall psyche, contributing to the idea that the govt was becoming tyrannical, and subjugating power from whites. I don't think he picked OKC as a race motivated target, just that those belifs accelerated him to do the horrible thing he did. SAMHAIN44
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 7:52:16 AM EST
As for those that don't believe that the truck could not have had enough explosives, look at the truck bomb on the Marine housing in Lebanon.
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Didn't the suicide bomber in Lebanon actually drive [b]into[/b] the building, rather than parking outside? Since the force of an explosion will be directed towards the path of least resistance, that might make a significant difference. Also, how did the size and composition of the Lebanese bomb compare with McVeigh's bomb? The technicality-based conspiracy theories won't be dispelled without a more detailed comparison of the OKC bombing with other truck bombings.
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 9:08:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bush Hamster: from the look of all your blood-thirsty comments it appears that many here are for the death penalty. IMHO, it should be abolished... two wrongs dont make a right. Promoting the death penalty would not reflect how a civil society should act, only to further the savage policies perpetuated by our government. Tim McViegh should not be executed, God will punish him eventually.
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Amen!...and, if he is put with the general population, THEY will make sure he is punished!!!!!
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 9:19:22 AM EST
BOTTOM LINE.....KILL THE BASTARD. HE DOESNT DESERVE TO BREATHE THE SAME AIR AS MY TWO BEAUTIFUL GIRLS. MELT HIS FILLINGS TO MAKE MORE BULLETS FOR ME...HAHA
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 10:33:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By Matt VDW:
As for those that don't believe that the truck could not have had enough explosives, look at the truck bomb on the Marine housing in Lebanon.
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Didn't the suicide bomber in Lebanon actually drive [b]into[/b] the building, rather than parking outside? Since the force of an explosion will be directed towards the path of least resistance, that might make a significant difference. Also, how did the size and composition of the Lebanese bomb compare with McVeigh's bomb? The technicality-based conspiracy theories won't be dispelled without a more detailed comparison of the OKC bombing with other truck bombings.
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I too question McVeigh's ability to have almost sigle handedly constructed a bomb as effective as that used to destroy that building. That type of explosive is not a high grade and Mcveigh would have had to be incredibly lucky to have enginereed the bomb to achive that level of destrution with no testing. You may argue that they experimented with smaller devices, but linear scaling has been the bane of many an engineer. The big one always works differently than the small one. I believe McVeigh had help from someone well versed in building the big ones.
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 12:34:32 PM EST
Originally Posted By ABN-RGR: BOTTOM LINE.....KILL THE BASTARD. HE DOESNT DESERVE TO BREATHE THE SAME AIR AS MY TWO BEAUTIFUL GIRLS. MELT HIS FILLINGS TO MAKE MORE BULLETS FOR ME...HAHA
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Those bullets made of his fillings will soon be just as illegal as the store bought flavor. He tried to tell everyone.
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 12:52:28 PM EST
I don't believe these conspiracy theories for a minute, and I seriously doubt McVeigh had any other help at all. Maybe 1 or 2 more were involved in some way, but beyond that, I don't think so. For one thing, more people involved mean more tongues wagging. The lack of wagging tongues indicates a lack of people. There are books out there telling how to make ammonium nitrate explosives supposedly far more powerful than ANFO. All I can see McVeigh did was simplify and scale up these recipies, and my impression is that he is plenty smart enough for that. I seem to remember seeing a picture of the front of the building as it was before the blast, and the second floor was overhanging the ground floor somewhat. If the blast wave was able to get in under there like that with zero resistance, and then act upward on a larger surface area, I can see the actual explosive he used causing the damage it did. Don't confuse what he used with "softer" fuel-oil mixtures. And as far as "linear scaling" goes, twice as big a bomb is probably MORE than twice as powerful, not less. All these theories about the federal government blowing itself up are silly, and make those who advance them look foolish. Our government is corrupt and incredibly careless with the lives of people supposedly presumed innocent, but hardly likely to engage in machinations of that level.
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