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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 1/16/2006 9:31:14 AM EDT
Help us, please! We're being "victimized" by states that respect the right to keep and bear arms!!!

"Mayor Mike and the NRA
TheTranscript.com

Saturday, January 14
It will be interesting to see whether Michael Bloomberg, the billionaire mayor of New York City, can shake the National Rifle Association's grip on national gun control debate.

Mayor Bloomberg is justifiably angry over the pathetically lax gun laws in states like Virginia, which are the source of a high percentage of the handguns that are used to commit crimes in the Big Apple. New York, like Massachusetts, has among the nation's strongest gun laws, but they are victimized by those states with the weakest laws — including several in the South and, according to Boston police officials, New Hampshire, Maine and Vermont.

Mayor Bloomberg is interested in forging an alliance of big city mayors from Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles and elsewhere to lobby for tougher national gun laws — especially concerning who can obtain a handgun and under what permitting conditions.

It is no secret that, backed by the powerful NRA, the gun lobby has successfully resisted even the most sensible proposals for background checks, purchasing limits and permitting. And with the Republicans in charge of Congress and the White House, they have never appeared stronger.

Passing stricter, uniform laws so that criminals and those who supply them can't shop around for firearms has proven impossible, especially with the NRA spending $6.5 million since 2002 on lobbying, according to a New York Daily News article. In comparison, the Brady Campaign, the leading pro-gun law group, spent $238,000 over the same period to persuade Congress.

And as we all know, with Congress, money talks loudest when it is stacked highest.

But all that could change drastically — and this is the intriguing part — should Mayor Bloomberg decide to back a lobbying effort with some of his own cash. Consider that he is worth an estimated $6 billion, and he spent $80 million on his re-election campaign and even more the first time he ran for mayor.

The millions of Americans who would like to see more common sense in this country when it comes to gun control in the face of thousands of gun-related deaths and injuries annually would no doubt cheer "Mayor Mike" on. And it would be positively uplifting to watch the NRA, which has refused to even consider compromise in the most extreme cases, squirm as their paltry lobbying sums are trumped."



www.thetranscript.com/editorial/ci_3401887

Link Posted: 1/16/2006 9:34:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 9:40:06 AM EDT by raf]
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 9:35:53 AM EDT
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

Gun control has failed in their cities, so instead of looking at the facts the come up with some unsupportable theory that the guns are obviously coming from the free states. Damn what happens when crime sky rockets like GB if they get their way? Must be them damn mexicans smuggling in those guns.



Should we just kick NYC, Boston, San Fran, and LA out of the US? Let them be a protetorate or something, but they don't get to vote in national elections.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 9:38:20 AM EDT
Isn't it curious that these areas where guns are sold back and forth willy nilly have a pittance of a crime rate compared to Urban areas? Hmmmm?

Perhaps guns aren't the problem.

But in today's world, no one can admit that people are a problem.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 9:42:11 AM EDT
I see whoever wrote the editoral was to chickenship to print their name. Sissy.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 10:28:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
Gun control has failed in their cities, so instead of looking at the facts the come up with some unsupportable theory that the guns are obviously coming from the free states.


Since many of the guns can at least be tracked to the first point of retail sale, I would not say that their claim is "unsupportable". If they can show that the first retail point of sale was down South, its going to support their claim that these guns are moving North.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 10:40:14 AM EDT
Thank goodness for moderate Republicans. [/end sarcasm]
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 10:41:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 10:45:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
I have a brilliant idea. Why doesn't the big cities lock up their repeat offender criminals instead of letting them run around free and buy illeagle firearms? Controlling demand works better than controlling supply every time.

This is Bloomberg whistling past the graveyard. He got his ass handed to him in the lawsuit premption and is stuck on perpetual whine.


To use NYC as an example, Rikers houses something like 15K people.You can't lock them up forever, and there isn't the capacity in the system to allow that.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 10:47:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
Gun control has failed in their cities, so instead of looking at the facts the come up with some unsupportable theory that the guns are obviously coming from the free states.


Since many of the guns can at least be tracked to the first point of retail sale, I would not say that their claim is "unsupportable". If they can show that the first retail point of sale was down South, its going to support their claim that these guns are moving North.[/quote]


As always, figure don't lie, but Liar's figure.

Anyone can look at any situation with any kind of goggles that they want in order to support their claim.

And as any sane person knows, the guns don't move by themselves, a real living person needs to transport them.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 10:50:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 10:51:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DWFAN:
As always, figure don't lie, but Liar's figure.
Anyone can look at any situation with any kind of goggles that they want in order to support their claim.
And as any sane person knows, the guns don't move by themselves, a real living person needs to transport them.


The argument was that Bloomie can't support that these guns are coming from the South. My point was that since they can be traced in many cases back to the point of first retail sale, yes, they CAN say that at least some of them are coming North. I don't see what your point is; of course someone is moving them north. No ones disputing that.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 10:52:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
I have a brilliant idea. Why doesn't the big cities lock up their repeat offender criminals instead of letting them run around free and buy illeagle firearms? Controlling demand works better than controlling supply every time.

This is Bloomberg whistling past the graveyard. He got his ass handed to him in the lawsuit premption and is stuck on perpetual whine.


To use NYC as an example, Rikers houses something like 15K people.You can't lock them up forever, and there isn't the capacity in the system to allow that.



Ever seen Escape from New York
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 10:53:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
Ever seen Escape from New York


Many times. Cheesy 80s sci fi; have a real world solution?
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 10:57:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By DWFAN:
As always, figure don't lie, but Liar's figure.
Anyone can look at any situation with any kind of goggles that they want in order to support their claim.
And as any sane person knows, the guns don't move by themselves, a real living person needs to transport them.


The argument was that Bloomie can't support that these guns are coming from the South. My point was that since they can be traced in many cases back to the point of first retail sale, yes, they CAN say that at least some of them are coming North. I don't see what your point is; of course someone is moving them north. No ones disputing that.



The point is that it doesn't matter where the guns are coming from. The criminals don't seem to care about NYC gun laws, regardless.

The nerve of some billionaire bafoon spouting off about doing something about leagl activity in another state is proposterous. He should fix his own house instead of blaming others for his cities problems.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 11:00:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 11:06:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
I have a brilliant idea. Why doesn't the big cities lock up their repeat offender criminals instead of letting them run around free and buy illeagle firearms? Controlling demand works better than controlling supply every time.

This is Bloomberg whistling past the graveyard. He got his ass handed to him in the lawsuit premption and is stuck on perpetual whine.


To use NYC as an example, Rikers houses something like 15K people.You can't lock them up forever, and there isn't the capacity in the system to allow that.



Build more or man up and adopt capital punishment instead of blaming inadequacies on other states.



They could also stop filling up Rikers with people busted for smoking a joint. If it has to be illegal, make the punishment community service or something similar.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 11:07:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
They could also stop filling up Rikers with people busted for smoking a joint. If it has to be illegal, make the punishment community service or something similar.


In NYS smokinga joint is an appearance ticket and a monetary fine. Try another excuse.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 11:08:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
Ever seen Escape from New York


Many times. Cheesy 80s sci fi; have a real world solution?



That is my solution, kick NYC out of the country and make them a protectorate.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 11:10:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DWFAN:
[ The point is that it doesn't matter where the guns are coming from. The criminals don't seem to care about NYC gun laws, regardless.

The nerve of some billionaire bafoon spouting off about doing something about leagl activity in another state is proposterous. He should fix his own house instead of blaming others for his cities problems.


I tend to think that Bloomie thinks that if other states had gun laws as strict as NYS's, you wouldn't see anywhere near the number of guns coming into NYC from those states. Thats what hes trying to address.

Do I think NYC gun laws need to be changed? Yes. Thats another thread, though.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 11:10:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
That is my solution, kick NYC out of the country and make them a protectorate.


Thats not a real world solution.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 11:10:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 11:12:36 AM EDT by HeavyMetal]
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 11:20:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
That is my solution, kick NYC out of the country and make them a protectorate.


Thats not a real world solution.



It can be done. Its not likely. It is a real world solution to the problem. Yes there could be other solutions, but there is no denying this would work as well.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 11:26:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
It can be done. Its not likely. It is a real world solution to the problem. Yes there could be other solutions, but there is no denying this would work as well.


Rather than take one of the financial centers of the country and throw it away, why not take some state that would be hardly missed; sayyyy...North or South Dakota. Hey, even YOUR state would work!They have plenty of wide open space that you could fence in. Go ahead and pitch your plan. But NYC? Nope.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 11:48:11 AM EDT
There is an estimated 1-2 million illegal handguns already in NYC. Even if there was a complete ban on handguns in other states it would not effect the supply of guns that are already available to criminals in NYC. Armed criminals target NYC and Boston because they know that the chances of facing an armed victim are slight.

King Bloombutt has an elite squad of NYPD personnel protecting him 24/7. Too bad he doesn't believe his subjects should be able to protect themselves against the criminal element that they face everyday in NYC.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 11:52:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
Armed criminals target NYC and Boston because they know that the chances of facing an armed victim are slight.

King Bloombutt has an elite squad of NYPD personnel protecting him 24/7. Too bad he doesn't believe his subjects should be able to protect themselves against the criminal element that they face everyday in NYC.


This is precisely where the changes need to be made.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 11:52:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
There is an estimated 1-2 million illegal handguns already in NYC. Even if there was a complete ban on handguns in other states it would not effect the supply of guns that are already available to criminals in NYC. Armed criminals target NYC and Boston because they know that the chances of facing an armed victim are slight.

King Bloombutt has an elite squad of NYPD personnel protecting him 24/7. Too bad he doesn't believe his subjects should be able to protect themselves against the criminal element that they face everyday in NYC.



OF those, how many of the "Illegal" handguns are there for what would be considered legitimate reasons elsewhere?

Probably alot of otherwise law abiding folks who are just looking to protect themselves.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 11:58:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:00:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
I have a brilliant idea. Why doesn't the big cities lock up their repeat offender criminals instead of letting them run around free and buy illeagle firearms? Controlling demand works better than controlling supply every time.

This is Bloomberg whistling past the graveyard. He got his ass handed to him in the lawsuit premption and is stuck on perpetual whine.


To use NYC as an example, Rikers houses something like 15K people.You can't lock them up forever, and there isn't the capacity in the system to allow that.



Then maybe Bloom-twit ought to get off his fat fucking wallet and buy more jail cells! If he really wants to keep the 'good' citizens of New York City safe....he ought to see to it that the criminals stay incarcerated!
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:06:50 PM EDT
Michael Bloomberg -> RINO
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:07:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pcsutton:
[Then maybe Bloom-twit ought to get off his fat fucking wallet and buy more jail cells! If he really wants to keep the 'good' citizens of New York City safe....he ought to see to it that the criminals stay incarcerated!


In case you hadn't noticed, space is a little tight in NYC to be building anything. They tried to resolve it by buying a prison barge and tying up to some dock down there; I don't know where that effort went. Maybe Wave or someone from the City can update us on that.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:20:21 PM EDT
I checked and Mike Bloomberg was not an elected official in any place but New York City. Unless he has taken over the federal government and is using the Constitution to wipe his ass, he can’t force his laws on other states. Again it can’t be because laws prohibiting handguns don’t work, it’s because of those people in the other states having lax gun laws. Typical liberal argument it’s not my fault it’s those dam other guys. I’m sure that the law-abiding criminals (oxymoron) in New York would give up their handguns if they were made illegal in all states. How can you argue against something that stupid!
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:21:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By yekimak:
OF those, how many of the "Illegal" handguns are there for what would be considered legitimate reasons elsewhere?

Probably alot of otherwise law abiding folks who are just looking to protect themselves.



Only a tiny percentage of "illegal" handguns in NYC are ever used to commit a crime. The only time you are ever going to hear about NYC residents that have used firearms to protect themselves is when they are arrested for possession of a handgun or unregistered rifle/shotgun. The vast majority of these encounters are never reported.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:23:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
Gun control has failed in their cities, so instead of looking at the facts the come up with some unsupportable theory that the guns are obviously coming from the free states.



Since many of the guns can at least be tracked to the first point of retail sale, I would not say that their claim is "unsupportable". If they can show that the first retail point of sale was down South, its going to support their claim that these guns are moving North.



Of course you wouldn't.
Problem is - what is the problem?
The method of the crime, or the fact that there is a crime?
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:24:07 PM EDT
If the northern governors and mayors will not arm their people and let them enjoy their 2nd Amendment rights, the South will
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:26:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By pcsutton:
[Then maybe Bloom-twit ought to get off his fat fucking wallet and buy more jail cells! If he really wants to keep the 'good' citizens of New York City safe....he ought to see to it that the criminals stay incarcerated!


In case you hadn't noticed, space is a little tight in NYC to be building anything. They tried to resolve it by buying a prison barge and tying up to some dock down there; I don't know where that effort went. Maybe Wave or someone from the City can update us on that.



They had no problem proposing building a huge complex on the west side to host the Olympics.
Besides, who says that the criminals have to be housed in NYC?

Let's at least agree that the criminal justice system needs to do a better job keeping known violent felons of the street.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:27:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LoginName:
Help us, please! We're being "victimized" by states that respect the right to keep and bear arms!!!

"Mayor Mike and the NRA
TheTranscript.com

Saturday, January 14
It will be interesting to see whether Michael Bloomberg, the billionaire mayor of New York City, can shake the National Rifle Association's grip on national gun control debate.

Mayor Bloomberg is justifiably angry over the pathetically lax gun laws in states like Virginia, which are the source of a high percentage of the handguns that are used to commit crimes in the Big Apple. New York, like Massachusetts, has among the nation's strongest gun laws, but they are victimized by those states with the weakest laws — including several in the South and, according to Boston police officials, New Hampshire, Maine and Vermont.

Mayor Bloomberg is interested in forging an alliance of big city mayors from Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles and elsewhere to lobby for tougher national gun laws — especially concerning who can obtain a handgun and under what permitting conditions.

It is no secret that, backed by the powerful NRA, the gun lobby has successfully resisted even the most sensible proposals for background checks, purchasing limits and permitting. And with the Republicans in charge of Congress and the White House, they have never appeared stronger.

Passing stricter, uniform laws so that criminals and those who supply them can't shop around for firearms has proven impossible, especially with

the NRA spending $6.5 million since 2002

...

the Brady Campaign, the leading pro-gun law group, spent $238,000 over the same period

...

But all that could change drastically



That should be changed drastically...There should be another zero or two on the first figure and the latter "group" should be left to the trashheap of history.



Article-wise...a bit of left leaning...maybe a little?
"powerful gun lobby" vs "pro-gun law group?"

"NRA, which has refused to even consider compromise in the most extreme cases" - how soon they forget

"according to a New York Daily News article" - somebody call the Pope! There's a new authoratah in town!


Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:37:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tifosi:
They had no problem proposing building a huge complex on the west side to host the Olympics.
Besides, who says that the criminals have to be housed in NYC?

Let's at least agree that the criminal justice system needs to do a better job keeping known violent felons of the street.



They were looking at the $$ with the Olympic thing.
You need a local lock up for court dates.
Lots of different solutions to keeping the violent felons off the street. All are very expensive to a criminal justice system that is trying to reduce costs, not looking to add more. "Known violent felons"..well, keeping them off the street means working the cases they are suspects in ( unless you can tie them into some crime after all, they are just another ex-con on the street) , improving the sentencing laws...yeah, there are always places to improve on.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:41:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
I have a brilliant idea. Why doesn't the big cities lock up their repeat offender criminals instead of letting them run around free and buy illeagle firearms?





Because then they cannot vote for the Hildebeast.
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