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Posted: 8/20/2017 10:42:45 PM EST
I need to know what product to patch a wall with. Tips or instructions are a plus.

This is a barn foundation wall. Made from field stones and mortar. The hole is 7" or 8" diameter. It was bored through for outdoor wood boiler lines to come in.

The wall was originally above ground, but was back-filled with gravel to make a ramp to the main level of the barn. I assume the black plastic went up right before the gravel was placed. The heating lines have been dug out, and the wall / foundation has to be patched up.


I've heard:
    * You need to use hydro. Hydraulic cement that expands as it cures and seals everything up. That's what they seal cracked basements with.

    * You need to use Type-S mortar. S is for sticky. It will stick to the vertical surface.

    * Don't use Type-S. You want the fiber reinforced mortar. Put the milky modifier in it. Use a cup or two per bag.

I just don't have the experience required to make a good decision on masonry products or how to use them. Help!


Link Posted: 8/20/2017 11:02:24 PM EST
My "concrete formwork carpenter professional" advice is fill it with something ( any type of grout/mortar/concrete will do), seal the exterior with something like tar and bentonite clay over the top of that and maybe a water barrier over the top of that, that extends vertically to the ground level to divert water way from the hole , and expect it to seap some water since it wasn't cast monolithic.

Good luck
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 11:20:39 PM EST
Your experience is about the same as mine.

Fill it with something .... then seal it with something ....
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 11:47:13 PM EST
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Originally Posted By j_smith_3rd:
Your experience is about the same as mine.

Fill it with something .... then seal it with something ....
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I just build the forms that hold the concrete these days, I dont do the "we fucked up and there's a hole through the wall" repairs.


A long, long, long time ago I did basement waterproofing for a few months and that company mainly used bentonite clay, either liquified and injected into the ground to fill up voids, or granulated inside corrugated cardboard and wetted down and placed against the leaking/cracked foundation and back filled, it'll remain waterproof as long as it doesnt dry out. Below ground it remains moist, above ground it dries out. Worst case scenario, we'd jack hammer out a trench in the basement around the perimeter, installed perf pipe and gravel with a sump pump in one corner and poured a hand mixed 2" topping slab over the trench and the sump pumped the water outside via a hole rotohammered through the foundation large enough to run a piece of PVC

Like I said, assume you'll get some seapage through the patch and adjust your exterior water diversion and water proofing to minimize how much water is getting to the patched area.

On the worst fuckups I've seen in recent memory, they build a birds mouth form, fill it up with grout and knock off the birds mouth and sack and patch the area when it's hard. We're talking exposed rebar in walls and structural columns, not holes through underground foundation walls. Your milage may vary
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 7:58:36 PM EST
Bumping for weekday after work views.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 8:05:09 PM EST
More field stones and some mortar usually, make it match inside. Then if you want you can parge the outside before backfilling again.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 8:35:33 PM EST
Patch the inside wall with hydraulic cement.

Soak dry oakum in a product like DeNeef Flex LV then pack it in the hole from the outside.

http://coastalone.com/de-neef-flex-lv-pure-catalyst-required.html
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 8:48:14 PM EST
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Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon:
More field stones and some mortar usually, make it match inside. Then if you want you can parge the outside before backfilling again.
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Honestly, this is what I'd probably do, and I'm a professional waterproofer. Maybe use hydraulic cement as my mortar just in case.

How far below grade is the wall?
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:11:46 PM EST
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Originally Posted By pd59:


Honestly, this is what I'd probably do, and I'm a professional waterproofer. Maybe use hydraulic cement as my mortar just in case.

How far below grade is the wall?
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@pd59

The hole is about 7' below grade. It's a ramp, so it's a fast grade. Drops 4' vertical in 20' horizontal.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:15:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:20:24 PM EST
I'd probably just use hydraulic cement and be done with it. A word of caution, however; that stuff cures in minutes, not hours, so you can't dilly-dally with it. Mix it up and immediately slobber it in the hole and patch it up. If you must, mix up just a small amount, like a coffee cup's worth and see how fast it reacts so you have an idea of just how little time you really have to do the job.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:27:15 PM EST
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Originally Posted By j_smith_3rd:


@pd59

The hole is about 7' below grade. It's a ramp, so it's a fast grade. Drops 4' vertical in 20' horizontal.
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In that case you should be fine. Mortar some stones in there and parge over it with the hydro. Having the gravel fill will allow for water to shed away from the wall quickly, which will also help.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 9:04:39 PM EST
The S is for Structural in type S mortar. Means it has a higher strength.

Fill the hole with the same stuff the rest of the wall is made of. You can then parge the wall with portland cement and sand mixed 1 to 1 or 1 to 2. Cover it with plastic and it can't be any worse than the rest of the wall.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 9:55:28 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
I'd probably just use hydraulic cement and be done with it. A word of caution, however; that stuff cures in minutes, not hours, so you can't dilly-dally with it. Mix it up and immediately slobber it in the hole and patch it up. If you must, mix up just a small amount, like a coffee cup's worth and see how fast it reacts so you have an idea of just how little time you really have to do the job.
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This deserves a quote because it's true.

A long time ago, I saw some guys on a site from another company mix up a whole 5gal pail of hydro cement, their boss was pissed.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 4:17:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2017 4:19:01 AM EST by sitdwnandhngon]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 25-06shooter:
The S is for Structural in type S mortar. Means it has a higher strength.
.
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Higher compression strength, but it's not recommended for dynamic walls. Stone usually requires a type N or even just a lime mortar with minimum portland, so when the wall shifts the joints give a bit and don't crack.

When I do stone repair on very old foundations I'll usually whip up something like 1-1-6+ (Lime-Portland-Sand) and it results in a pretty sticky, but still very soft mortar. Type N is probably fine though since it's used to lay soft brick.

I don't think it stands for structural either, because then M and N would also need to stand or something. In order from highest to lowest compression strength. M,S,N (I remember it like this MaSoN), S and N being use the most usually depending on the material being laid.
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