Title says it all.  We are going to try counseling at the end of the month, maybe it will do some good.  BTW, this really sucks and we have a two year old boy.  I guess I'm looking for some "been there and done thats".  

Is it over? or do you guys just need to get back on the same page maybe?

If the love is still there, the rest can usually be fixed. ymmv.

Quoted: Title says it all.  We are going to try counseling at the end of the month, maybe it will do some good.  BTW, this really sucks and we have a two year old boy.  I guess I'm looking for some "been there and done thats".

hey bud, I'm sry, I've been there and done that call me if ya want to talk, do you still have my #

Go along with the counseling but in the meanwhile start lawyering up and covering your assets.

Quoted: Go along with the counseling but in the meanwhile start lawyering up and covering your assets.

 yea, but don't tell her, I got a friend of mine that's a lawyer, I'll give you his #

Sorry to hear. I wish you much luck.

Remeber the kids come first. Before, during and after.

its nothing like splitting up a marriage, but my G/F of 4 yrs and i recently split up.  it really sucks.  sorry to hear that.  dumping a couple of mags real fast helps with my sadness.

I'm not real worried about the finacial side of things.  We've allready spoken about what we want and she knows about how much I'll have to pay a month.  I could be stupid, but I think that end will go okay if we get to that point.  I'm mostly worried about my son and what will happen with him.  I know I would get what visitation rights are allowed by law, but not seeing him everyday is the real killer.  Maybe we can work it out, I haven't given up all hope yet.  Thanks Murdoc, IM me your # and give you a shout sometime this weekend.

Try to save your marriage if you can.

If you can't, protect yourself from vindictive bitches and biased courts.

Then, never get married again.

I am divorced after 20 years with the same person. In a way it is a relief, but it has been 3 years and i still feel lost....Take care of your Boy ,and no matter how bad you think you got it ,somone somwhere has it alot worse.

I don't know your exact situation but I will say marriage isn't easy. My Grandmother told me a lot of good info when she was living and one thing she told me was that people now get divorced when the going gets tough and never work through problems and get to a higher level of marriage. She is right. If you all have a two year old that means you had a 9 month pregnancy, a newborn, post partem, and now a two year old. That's a tough two year period. If there is no adultery, crack cocaine, or deep mental illness issues, I would try VERY HARD to make it work. Check out marriagebuilders.com It has a lot of good info. Remember that divorce doesn't solve any problems it just trades the ones you have for a different set. You know your situation. The world is an incredibly brutal place. Save your marriage if you can. It will pay off for all of you.
 One more thing. I have seen my share of shit and I have learned there is always time to kill each other. Likewise, there is always a time to get divorced. Try hard. Every body will need counseling at sometime in their marriage. You can always get divorced. That option won't go away.

I'd like to do something real strange and quote "Judge Judy"

Please hear me out....because she has a few pearls of wisdom

To you and your wife/ex wife

"Your love for your Son from both of you must/will be stronger than the disslike/hate you have for each other"

Food for thought

Take care and I hope everything works out OK for all involved

Taffy

Quoted: I don't know your exact situation but I will say marriage isn't easy. My Grandmother told me a lot of good info when she was living and one thing she told me was that people now get divorced when the going gets tough and never work through problems and get to a higher level of marriage.

100% correct.
That lady knows what she is talking about.

What are your reasons for divorce?  Was she unfaithful?  Try to keep it together if at all possible.  Divorce will hurt your child with a wound from which he will never fully recover.  He will adapt, but never fully heal.  He will, as I did, see it as the betrayal of a sacred trust.  I'm not trying to be a dick, but I think there are too many SOB psychologists who make up excuses that people want to hear.  Nine times out of ten, divorces is a "cure" that is worse than the disease.  

im sent

+1[


quote]Quoted:
Try to save your marriage if you can.

If you can't, protect yourself from vindictive bitches and biased courts.

Then, never get married again.

Sorry to hear that! My best friend is going through a divorce. He's got 3 kids 7, 4 and 1. It sucks! The piece of shit he married decided to go through a mid life crisis at age 30 and start fuc!#$% another guy. I can't imagine that. It suck though, I feel like I'm going through it too seeing as he calls me with daily emotional reports. Nothing I can say can take away the shit e must be feeling right now. So hang in there, it will get better

i have four ex-wives, i figure that if they're worth living with they're worth marrying, i have no advice other than take care of your kids. life will always get better. as a friend once said "when you pull out of the next one you'll forget the last one"

Ill be damned, when/if I ever get married, im leaving this forum... Its got bad mojo or soem crap....

Damn! Another new member to the club.

My divorce was finalized a little over a month ago. Two girls, ages 4 and 5.

Marriages have stages. It takes a lot of work by both people to progress to another stage. And unfortunately Marriage Relationships change from Bad to Miserable if both or one person isn't willing to work things through.

A lot of it has to do with what is going on inside your own head.


Here is an Article from About.Com on Stages of Marriage

-------------------------------------------------

Once upon a time, when we were children, our parents regaled us with poignant tales of longing that underscored the power and persistence of love. In so many of those fairy tales, to which we listened raptly, the princess and her charming prince galloped into couplehood happily ever after. The message threaded into these popular yarns was straightforward enough: love leads to marriage, and marriage leads to lasting happiness. As adults, however, many of us quickly discovered that the book of love unfolds as no simple fairy tale - it stands more as a novel of startling complexity, rife with plot twists, thick with characters in a state of constant - and often surprising - development.

  Sure that their fiery passion for each other will eternally burn many couples vault heart-first into marriage. Too soon - and too often - though, they stand sadly sifting the ashes of their red-hot romances, searching for embers to rekindle their once raging fires - and save their failing relationships.
  What trips many couples is a wrong-headed belief that passion is the active ingredient in a lasting relationship and that maintaining romantic love is the key to marital happiness. Fact is, "love changes," says Les Parrott III, co-author of Saving Your Marriage Before It Starts (Zondervan Publishing House, 1995). "There is an ebb and flow to it. When romance is present, life is wonderful. But we cannot demand this of love - or of our partner."

  Too often, couples stumble into this startling discovery long after the "I do's" have been exchanged, the rented tuxedos returned, and the mortgages co-signed. The result, for couples who commit to marriage under this pretense, is predictable: their unions flounder. Half of first marriages fail today, according to Elliot and Bentry Cohan, co-authors of For Better, For Worse, Forever: 10 Steps for Building a Lasting Relationship with the Man You Love (Chandler House Press, 1999), "because two needy strangers become attracted to each other and don't have a clue as to who the other one is before they marry, believing the popular myth, that 'love conquers all'."

  If you ask Parrott, who along with his wife Leslie, direct the Center for Relationship Development at Seattle Pacific University, the tragedy of many failed relationships lies firmly rooted in the bill of goods sold in childhood to many of us. "Life - and marriage - is not a fairy tale," he says. "From childhood we have been conditioned to believe the 'happily-ever-after myth.' We have been poisoned by it. So we end up with a new marriage with a million unspoken expectations about how wonderful life is going to be now - never realizing that no knight in shining armor can ever fulfill them."

  Most marriages pass quickly through the state of euphoria. Over the course of time marriages, naturally, evolve. Influenced by transitions in life such as childbirth, promotions, retirement, and aging, marriages pass through stages, each presenting special challenges that threaten to undermine the relationship.

  Couples do not simply marry and live happily ever after. To maintain a good and happy marriage requires hard work. Learning about the stages through which marriage pass - and how to massage the bumpy points - can help you and your mate come closer to happily ever after.

One: Romance
  Couples inaugurate marriage in state of romantic bliss. In this euphoric phase, which usually lasts the first to third years of marriage, newlyweds wear the proverbial rose-colored glasses. Life is perfect. Love is perfect.

  Their spouse is perfect. Marriage is viewed an idealized manner. Differences are discounted, faults are few. As the Cohans put it: "Each thinks the other's idiosyncrasies are 'cute and sweet rather than irritating." Although many couples tumble into marriage due to the pull of romantic love, the expectation that one's partner will fill some void - raise self-esteem or self-worth, bring happiness, end loneliness, or heal some old childhood wounds, for example - is more the draw, says Gary DuDell, an adjunct professor at the University of South Florida and a psychotherapist who specializes in relationship enhancement. This is the time that spouses seek the intimacy they crave.

Two: Fault-Finding
  The second stage is disappointment time. That way your spouse has of leaving the cap off the toothpaste that once was so cute now sticks in your craw. Partners realize "that other's behavior is irritating or even hurtful," the Cohans contend. "This stage is fraught with danger and it's when many marriages end in divorce.

Why?
  These couples do not know how to effectively communicate their negative feelings to each other, nor do they know how to argue and problem-solve, and are ignorant about negotiation and compromise. They never get beyond the fault-finding and blaming."

  The other battle brewing is a war of wills. Each individual, used to doing things their way, now must find a way to adjust to the ways of their partner.

  "Think of two family systems coming together in wedlock. The couple has to form it's own unique identity," says Martha Carr, a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and associate professor at the California School of Professional Psychology. Defining their own family style successfully and separately from the families in which they were reared "will determine whether the couple will succeed or not. There has to be connection with the original families - but boundaries."

  The intensity and turmoil of this stage varies among couples, but the Parrotts say that almost every couple engages in the struggle. It does not have to torpedo the marriage. "Successful passage through this stage enables each partner to say,'Okay. So I am willing to admit that my romance with a perfect partner is an illusion," write the Parrotts in their book. "However, I am still fascinated with the mystery of who you are, and I am willing to pursue romance with you and journey together toward a more mature love."

Three: Cooperation
  Many couples stay mired in stage two. Stung by the hurt and damage rendered during those tumultuous times, many couples divorce. The Parrotts describe stage as "a breath of fresh air for couples who have stayed the course and successfully navigated the perilous passage of power struggles. Now a sense of acceptance and a willingness to change enters the relationship." A shift in thought takes place: DuDell calls it a move "from a reactive approach to the proactive." This involves learning positive relationship skills, and cultivating creativity within the relationship. As DuDell puts it: "It is about shifting from a consumer view of the relationship - 'my partner will give me love or my marriage will bring me happiness' - to a creating posture - 'I will develop strategies for getting more of what I want in my marriage or I will learn to be more honest and direct when I need something from my partner.'

  This shift from "consumer" to "creator" redefines the relationship: partners take responsibility for their own problems and shed the illusion that their partner is the key to their happiness.

Four: Acceptance
  Couples stall in some of these miserable stages because they become so disillusioned by married love, Les Parrott says. With these couples, "it turns out that marriage isn't exactly how they pictured it and they became discouraged. The challenge every couple faces is not to realize their expectations - but to realign their attitude and adjust to and accept the reality that the person they married will not and cannot meet all their needs all the time."

  Stage Four, acceptance, commitment or mutuality, is where Jawanza Kunjufu says in his book, Restoring the Village Values, and Commitment: Solutions for the Black Family (African American Images, 1996), "you and your mate realize that regardless of who you're with, there will be problems, so I might as well stay in the relationship and work them out."    Togetherness just feels secure, and there exists a heightened sense of belonging. The unhealthy patterns that dogged their relationship seem ancient history. This acceptance, Parrott says, "is the bridge to ultimate transformation and a love that can be enjoyed for a lifetime."

Five: Transformation
  Couples who put in the time and effort reap this final reward. Intimacy is second nature. The attitude is "we grow together." Also, called co-creativity, Stage Five couples develop "a web of meaningful interrelationships that support the marriage and deepen the joy," write the Parrotts. They can reflect on the ups, downs, bumps and bruised egos along the journey, and look forward to good times ahead. In this final stage, couples know what the fairy tales neglected to mention: Love is hard work.

Tips for Preserving a marriage
What is most important in preserving a marriage? Great sex? Money? Knockout looks? Try relationship skills.
  In the best case scenario, a couple would enter their union knowing how to manage conflict and equipped with the communication skills required to respectfully negotiate, resolve disagreements fairly, and avoid the bitterness that drives spouses apart.

  As the divorce rate demonstrates, many couples lack these basic skills. Elliot and Bentry Cohan, co-authors of For Better, For Worse, Forever: 10 Steps for Building a Lasting Relationship with the Man You Love, (Chandler House Press, 1999), list these skills required to preserve a marriage:

1. Problem-solving - The key to which includes:
·  acknowledging the problem
·  addressing the problem
·  engaging in whatever steps necessary to seek a win-win resolution of the problem (that is, a positive action - beyond acknowledgment of the situation - is vital if the issues and conflicts are to be resolved.

How is this done? Discussion not accusation or blame, plus negotiation and compromise. However, never compromise on abuse of any kind (physical, verbal, sexual or substance).

2. Communication - Always look to preserve the relationship by keeping false pride and ego in check.
3. Cultivating passion and intimacy-Remember the necessity of keeping the couple on top of the list of priorities. Make time for "dates" and romance.

unless you like eating macaroni and cheese for the next 16 or more years, a destroyed credit rating, selling off all your possesions......or what little you will have after the divorce, to buy that macaroni and cheese, and calling home a cardboard box under some bridge overpass, I would be trying to hold the marriage together.

My divorce is final as of, literally, today.

One year ago, I was going through the feelings you are now.  Confusion, disappointment, sadness, etc.  It will be hard on you...do not waste hundreds of dollars on marriage counseling unless you see some gains from it.  My ex clammed up in those sessions, revealing very little and being defensive, and after 3 sessions (300 bucks) I realized I was heading nowhere with it.

Don't make a lot of concessions right now that you might regret later on, even verbal ones.  

I'm sorry to hear you have a child involved, but you also have to take care of yourself.  Now is when you'll find out who your real friends are, too.  You'll see.

Best of luck.

Take her to Aruba or on a Royal Carribean Cruise for a final farewell.  

I should be so lucky.  I'm still married...

Quoted: Sorry to hear. I wish you much luck. Remeber the kids come first. Before, during and after.

+1 Give the counseling a fair chance by giving it your 100%.  Your little boy deserves that.

Patty

Thanks for the replies guys.  There has been no cheating on either side and neither one of us is a drug user.  I guess it boils down to alot of little things that have added up.  We are going to give counseling a try, my insurance covers it.  

dude, remember, although you may agree to be working together, she has already talked to her friends, and received advice.

Get anything that can be used against you in court taken care of.

Kill off any excess credit.

And you might talk to a divorce lawyer now for some real advice.

Good luck, still going through mine right now.  

It ain't fun.  I have 2 kids as well, 4yo girl, and 2 yo boy.

TXL

I'm never getting married.

Don't worry, your self-esteem will return

Been there, done that.

Work hard at taking the moral high road - it'll require quite a bit of self-discipline and maturity during such a viscerally emotional time. But you'll feel better about yourself when this is over, and your son will think well of you when he's old enough to think for himself.

Then, while hoping for the best, prepare for the worst. Preparation is the key here, legally, financially and emotionally. Give counseling a try, but realize that it's usually too late when a couple gets to that stage. Start squirreling some money away somewhere, you're going to need it if she listens to what her friends and mother are telling her. (You can bet she's relating her version of things to them, looking for justification for what she wants to do.) If you stay together, you can always buy her a super birthday present.

Find out who the most vicious, amoral divorce lawyers in town are, and have consultations with them. Most will do that for free. It'll be an education for you, and it will prevent them from representing her. That little preemptive strike will dramatically improve the quality of your life in the near future.

And the most important pearl of wisdom I can give you as the divorce approaches: "Never miss an opportunity to keep your mouth shut." That should be your mantra. Just listen, don't talk.

You made a baby together.  Personal wants and wishes are irrelevant now.  Make it work for the kid.

The previous poster was correct - Divorce will damage your son, and it will never fully heal.  If you can live with that, then press on.

I think many couples make babies to see if it will hold their marriage together, not because they want a child.

This may sound strange, but Yoda had some very wise words:  "Do or do not, there is no try."

When you say you are gonna give counseling a try, it sounds like you're gonna go through the motions but don't really believe it will work.  I've been there too.  I tried, she didn't, so it didn't work.  If BOTH your hearts are not 100% in it, it won't work.  Counseling won't fix your problems, but it will help reveal the real problems.  Be careful though, if your hearts are not both dedicated to the process, it's a waste of time regardless of who's paying for it.

Go for the counseling 100%!!!  My wife and I started counseling about 1.5 months ago and it has helped big time.  Not only with the relationship, but also to help me realize why I do some of the things that I do.  Counseling has actually been the best thing that I have ever done for my marriage and my mental health.  Give it your all and ask yourself "what are we teaching our son about relationships & inter-personal relationships?"

been there, done the marriage/divorce thing already. I tried my best to keep the marriage together for the kids sake. Looking back, all I did was make myself more misearable. Best advice, try to work it out, if not try to keep the divorce as friendly as possible. It will be so much easier on the kids if ya do.  Good luck and hope it works out for ya .

My divorce was a relief.  Can't help there.  I was a child of a divorce, too.  My dad left when I was 3.  My mom raised me on her own and, I turned out ok.  Don't stay together for your kid.  I guess if you want to do counseling, go ahead......I guess I'm from the school of

"If you can't work it out yourself, you don't want to work it out."

Two of my kids would probably be better off with ADD meds, but, I'm NOT medicating them.  I quit smoking on my own and, after 8/21 of this year, I'm quitting drinking on my own.  My mom had to teach in different counties to make a living, raising me as a single mom, and, I was alone 5 days/nights out of the week.  I had to depend on myself to make the budget, clean the house, take messages, etc.

I'm sorry for your situation, but, IMO, everything happens for a reason.

Screwed up my reply-

I should be so lucky. I'm still married...




Was just gonna say.... I have a good marriage but I'm getting a little older and all the things I didn't have time for are rearing their nasty little heads and this time they mean business; fishing, shooting, trains, younger pooter- a wife and kids get in the way of all that. I could be happy a single man-

My second is winding down quickly. I'll never get married again. Over the last three years this one has pissed away a small fortune.