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Posted: 3/9/2010 9:15:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2010 9:36:16 AM EDT by flyfishnepa]




http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703954904575110124037066854.html?mod=WSJ_WSJ_US_News_5


Lawmakers working to craft a new comprehensive immigration bill have settled on a way to prevent employers from hiring illegal immigrants: a national biometric identification card all American workers would eventually be required to obtain.

Under the potentially controversial plan still taking shape in the Senate, all legal U.S. workers, including citizens and immigrants, would be issued an ID card with embedded information, such as fingerprints, to tie the card to the worker.

The ID card plan is one of several steps advocates of an immigration overhaul are taking to address concerns that have defeated similar bills in the past.

The uphill effort to pass a bill is being led by Sens. Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) and Lindsey Graham (R., S.C.), who plan to meet with President Barack Obama as soon as this week to update him on their work. An administration official said the White House had no position on the biometric card.

"It's the nub of solving the immigration dilemma politically speaking," Mr. Schumer said in an interview. The card, he said, would directly answer concerns that after legislation is signed, another wave of illegal immigrants would arrive. "If you say they can't get a job when they come here, you'll stop it."

The biggest objections to the biometric cards may come from privacy advocates, who fear they would become de facto national ID cards that enable the government to track citizens.

"It is fundamentally a massive invasion of people's privacy," said Chris Calabrese, legislative counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union. "We're not only talking about fingerprinting every American, treating ordinary Americans like criminals in order to work. We're also talking about a card that would quickly spread from work to voting to travel to pretty much every aspect of American life that requires identification."

Mr. Graham says he respects those concerns but disagrees. "We've all got Social Security cards," he said. "They're just easily tampered with. Make them tamper-proof. That's all I'm saying."

U.S. employers now have the option of using an online system called E-Verify to check whether potential employees are in the U.S. legally. Many Republicans have pressed to make the system mandatory. But others, including Mr. Schumer, complain that the existing system is ineffective.

Last year, White House aides said they expected to push immigration legislation in 2010. But with health care and unemployment dominating his attention, the president has given little indication the issue is a priority.

Rather, Mr. Obama has said he wanted to see bipartisan support in Congress first. So far, Mr. Graham is the only Republican to voice interest publicly, and he wants at least one other GOP co-sponsor to launch the effort.

An immigration overhaul has long proven a complicated political task. The Latino community is pressing for action and will be angry if it is put off again. But many Americans oppose any measure that resembles amnesty for people who came here illegally.

Under the legislation envisioned by Messrs. Graham and Schumer, the estimated 10.8 million people living illegally in the U.S. would be offered a path to citizenship, though they would have to register, pay taxes, pay a fine and wait in line. A guest-worker program would let a set number of new foreigners come to the U.S. legally to work.

Most European countries require citizens and foreigners to carry ID cards. The U.K. had been a holdout, but in the early 2000s it considered national cards as a way to stop identify fraud, protect against terrorism and help stop illegal foreign workers. Amid worries about the cost and complaints that the cards infringe on personal privacy, the government said it would make them voluntary for British citizens. They are required for foreign workers and students, and so far about 130,000 cards have been issued.

Mr. Schumer first suggested a biometric-based employer-verification system last summer. Since then, the idea has gained currency and is now a centerpiece of the legislation being developed, aides said.

A person familiar with the legislative planning said the biometric data would likely be either fingerprints or a scan of the veins in the top of the hand. It would be required of all workers, including teenagers, but would be phased in, with current workers needing to obtain the card only when they next changed jobs, the person said.

The card requirement also would be phased in among employers, beginning with industries that typically rely on illegal-immigrant labor.

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce doesn't have a position on the proposal, but it is concerned that employers would find it expensive and complicated to properly check the biometrics.

Mr. Schumer said employers would be able to buy a scanner to check the IDs for as much as $800.  Small employers, he said, could take their applicants to a government office to like the Department of Motor Vehicles and have their hands scanned there.

Link Posted: 3/9/2010 9:24:12 AM EDT
And, if this is somehow easier and less expensive than E-Verify, how?
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 9:27:12 AM EDT
Tag for Chucky Boy scanning my hemmeroids.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 9:31:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2010 9:48:31 AM EDT by Partisan]
Originally Posted By Screechjet1:
And, if this is somehow easier and less expensive than E-Verify, how?


e-verify is a total failure:

http://www.manufacturing.net/article.aspx?id=243734

Report: System To Catch Illegal Workers Failing
By Suzanne Gamboa, Associated Press Writer
Manufacturing.Net - February 25, 2010

Printer Friendly     E-mail to a Colleague


WASHINGTON (AP) –– The system Congress and the Obama administration want employers to use to help curb illegal immigration is failing to catch more than half of the unauthorized workers it checks, a research company has found.

The online tool E-Verify, now used voluntarily by employers, wrongly clears illegal workers about 54 percent of the time, according to Westat, a research company that evaluated the system for the Homeland Security Department. E-Verify missed so many illegal workers mainly because it can't detect identity fraud, Westat said.

"Clearly it means it's not doing its No. 1 job well enough," said Marc Rosenblum, a researcher at the Migration Policy Institute, a nonpartisan Washington think tank.

E-Verify allows employers to run a worker's information against Department of Homeland Security and Social Security databases to check whether the person is permitted to work in the U.S. The Obama administration has made cracking down on employers who hire people here illegally a central part of its immigration enforcement policy, and there are expectations that some Republicans in Congress will try in coming weeks to make E-Verify mandatory.

Much of the criticism of E-Verify has focused on whether U.S. citizens and legal immigrants with permission to work were falsely flagged as illegal workers. Immigration officials have been taking steps to improve such inaccuracies. Westat reported that 93 percent of the cases checked were legal workers who were accurately identified on first try. Another .7 percent were legal workers who initially were rejected.

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, testifying in a House hearing on her agency's proposed budget Thursday, said she doubts the 54 percent inaccuracy rate for illegal workers. She said things are being added to the system to root out identity fraud.

"E-Verify is absolutely where we are going in terms of incentivizing employers and making sure we are using a legal work force," Napolitano said.

Sen. Chuck Schumer of New York, who is writing the Democrats' immigration bill and has fought expanding E-Verify because of its flaws, said Wednesday that the fact that E-Verify was inaccurate so often shows that it is not an adequate tool.

"This is a wake-up call to anyone who thinks E-Verify is an effective remedy to stop the hiring of illegal immigrants," Schumer said.

A worker verification process like E-Verify is considered essential for any immigration overhaul proposal to have a chance of approval in Congress.

Westat's report, completed in December using data from 2008, was quietly posted on Homeland Security's Web site Jan. 28 along with a summary that pointed out E-Verify is accurate "almost half of the time."

"While not perfect, it is important to note that E-Verify is much more effective" than the paper forms used by most employers, the summary said.

Rosenblum, who has studied E-Verify, said Westat's evaluation shows it doesn't make sense to substantially expand and invest in E-Verify without fixing the identity theft problem.

Bill Wright, a spokesman for U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, said the agency has created an anti-immigrant identity fraud unit in Buffalo, N.Y., to address the issue.

The agency, part of the Homeland Security Department, is developing a way for people to screen themselves through E-Verify so they can show potential employers they can work legally.

About 184,000 of the nation's 7 million to 8 million employers are using E-Verify, according to the Homeland Security Department.

Congress gave DHS about $100 million to spend on E-Verify in its 2010 budget.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 9:33:02 AM EDT
I just renewed my DL in Florida;I had to produce my birth certificate with raised state seal,social security card,and two bills showing my billing address.They scan all the documents and boom,you are in some unknown database to be bought, sold, or stolen. Absolute bullshit.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 9:37:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By nashvillecat:
I just renewed my DL in Florida;I had to produce my birth certificate with raised state seal,social security card,and two bills showing my billing address.They scan all the documents and boom,you are in some unknown database to be bought, sold, or stolen. Absolute bullshit.


Can we find some way to get obummer a FL lic?  I'd really like to see his birth cert.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 9:39:56 AM EDT
NO
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 9:40:29 AM EDT
This is not going well at all.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 9:45:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2010 9:51:08 AM EDT by AR-180]
I have the feeling that we as Americans are like Wile E. Coyote.  We have stepped over the edge of the cliff, and some of us are realizing the fall is imminent.Link for pic
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 9:48:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2010 9:52:42 AM EDT by flyfishnepa]

as much as i despise illegal immigration, if it's between this and illegal immigrants working i'll take illegal immigrants working

Link Posted: 3/9/2010 9:50:53 AM EDT


Wow.  I'm sure glad I don't have a number that identifies me as a citizen of these United States of America.  That would be like...communism or something.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 9:54:05 AM EDT





Link Posted: 3/9/2010 9:56:20 AM EDT
Maybe I should do a preemptive tactical bug-out...
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 10:09:29 AM EDT

Link Posted: 3/9/2010 10:13:55 AM EDT
Tinfoil securely fastened to head.

Link Posted: 3/9/2010 10:15:24 AM EDT
1. E Verify works great.



2. Fuck you and your futurama card.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 10:18:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2010 10:18:51 AM EDT by David14]
Make them tamper-proof. That's all I'm saying."

Nothing is tamper-proof, and Lindsey Graham is an idiot.

That's all I'm saying.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 10:18:35 AM EDT

IBBB


In Before Baghdad Bob
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 10:27:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By David14:
Make them tamper-proof. That's all I'm saying."

Nothing is tamper-proof, and Lindsey Graham is an idiot.

That's all I'm saying.


Anyone that could find common ground with Chuckie is a sell-out.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 10:32:44 AM EDT
This is what happens when you don't treat criminals like criminals,
and when you treat everyone like criminals. Bastids
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 10:44:35 AM EDT
How much longer, America?


Link Posted: 3/9/2010 10:49:27 AM EDT
Exactly. If prison was actually a punishment nowdays people would not break the laws.  If the laws were enforced we would not have ilelgalimmigrants either.





We don't need fucking biocards. We need prison time for any person caught hiring an illegal immigrant. E Verify works just fine .  Sometimes it takes a week or two if there is an issue to clear it up.  That only havens about 1 percent of the time IIRC.  XCompletely acceptable and probably works better than any other federal system other than the ones that steal our money.   Within 5 years tehy will all be  in canada or mexico when they cannot get work here.  .
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 10:53:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Terminus:
How much longer, America?


The rope is getter shorter by the day.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 10:57:39 AM EDT
Unfortunately, I think we need something to affirm ID.  I don't like the idea of it being in control of the federal government - but it is the natural place for it.  For once I can see this being an interstate commerce issue.  Lets face it, the federal government was established in part to help states interact.

Citizens of any of the several states have a right to work in any of the several states.  Non-citizens would need some sort of work visa.  There has to be a system to prove you are a citizen or that you are not.  I do not want my idea implanted in me, but having it tied to who I physically am seems acceptable.

Of course it would be nice if a database is not maintained.  But that just aint going to happen.

Link Posted: 3/9/2010 10:59:07 AM EDT




Wait - I thought Mikhail Gorbachev had the Mark Of The Beast.





 
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 11:05:31 AM EDT
Part of my job is in the driver licensing industry.  IMHO, at the end of the day, no ID is secure.  States throw money at adding security features to the ID and in the end, for $50 or some weed a corrupt counter worker at a DMV will make you a legit license/ID card.  You're asking the persons issuing and checking the cards to act as trained law enforcement which they are not.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 11:09:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MTUSA:
This is what happens when you don't treat criminals like criminals,
and when you treat everyone like criminals. Bastids


good point, just like the firearm laws


Link Posted: 3/9/2010 11:10:28 AM EDT
And this still doesn't make amnesty any more acceptable. For starters, you can bet that any "immigration reform" will include a massive increase in visas, so companies can continue to hire foreign tech over college educated Americans. Amnesty, even more than national health care, will destroy our nation, our culture, and our way of life, and the public should oppose it with even more vigor than they oppose health care "reform", regardless of how many RINO talking heads take a "surprising turn" and tell us that we need to reconsider our opposition to it.

Link Posted: 3/9/2010 11:16:13 AM EDT
Fuck it! Just implant the micro-chips in all of us and get it over with!
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 11:28:33 AM EDT
Negatory.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 11:41:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 11:50:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2010 11:52:00 AM EDT by flyfishnepa]
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Mark of the Beast - National Biometric Identification Cards.


That is not the mark of the beast.

Revelation 13:16  And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17  And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18  Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six


It is a mark that is "received" on the hand, not fingerprints or hand vein prints.



true but it's closer then i want to get

eta:  and this is a can of worms that shouldn't be opened IMO

Link Posted: 3/9/2010 11:53:08 AM EDT
If I want/need a Federal ID....I'll renew my passport.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 11:55:23 AM EDT
No fucking way.
Originally Posted By flyfishnepa:




http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703954904575110124037066854.html?mod=WSJ_WSJ_US_News_5


Lawmakers working to craft a new comprehensive immigration bill have settled on a way to prevent employers from hiring illegal immigrants: a national biometric identification card all American workers would eventually be required to obtain.

Under the potentially controversial plan still taking shape in the Senate, all legal U.S. workers, including citizens and immigrants, would be issued an ID card with embedded information, such as fingerprints, to tie the card to the worker.

The ID card plan is one of several steps advocates of an immigration overhaul are taking to address concerns that have defeated similar bills in the past.

The uphill effort to pass a bill is being led by Sens. Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) and Lindsey Graham (R., S.C.), who plan to meet with President Barack Obama as soon as this week to update him on their work. An administration official said the White House had no position on the biometric card.

"It's the nub of solving the immigration dilemma politically speaking," Mr. Schumer said in an interview. The card, he said, would directly answer concerns that after legislation is signed, another wave of illegal immigrants would arrive. "If you say they can't get a job when they come here, you'll stop it."

The biggest objections to the biometric cards may come from privacy advocates, who fear they would become de facto national ID cards that enable the government to track citizens.

"It is fundamentally a massive invasion of people's privacy," said Chris Calabrese, legislative counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union. "We're not only talking about fingerprinting every American, treating ordinary Americans like criminals in order to work. We're also talking about a card that would quickly spread from work to voting to travel to pretty much every aspect of American life that requires identification."

Mr. Graham says he respects those concerns but disagrees. "We've all got Social Security cards," he said. "They're just easily tampered with. Make them tamper-proof. That's all I'm saying."

U.S. employers now have the option of using an online system called E-Verify to check whether potential employees are in the U.S. legally. Many Republicans have pressed to make the system mandatory. But others, including Mr. Schumer, complain that the existing system is ineffective.

Last year, White House aides said they expected to push immigration legislation in 2010. But with health care and unemployment dominating his attention, the president has given little indication the issue is a priority.

Rather, Mr. Obama has said he wanted to see bipartisan support in Congress first. So far, Mr. Graham is the only Republican to voice interest publicly, and he wants at least one other GOP co-sponsor to launch the effort.

An immigration overhaul has long proven a complicated political task. The Latino community is pressing for action and will be angry if it is put off again. But many Americans oppose any measure that resembles amnesty for people who came here illegally.

Under the legislation envisioned by Messrs. Graham and Schumer, the estimated 10.8 million people living illegally in the U.S. would be offered a path to citizenship, though they would have to register, pay taxes, pay a fine and wait in line. A guest-worker program would let a set number of new foreigners come to the U.S. legally to work.

Most European countries require citizens and foreigners to carry ID cards. The U.K. had been a holdout, but in the early 2000s it considered national cards as a way to stop identify fraud, protect against terrorism and help stop illegal foreign workers. Amid worries about the cost and complaints that the cards infringe on personal privacy, the government said it would make them voluntary for British citizens. They are required for foreign workers and students, and so far about 130,000 cards have been issued.

Mr. Schumer first suggested a biometric-based employer-verification system last summer. Since then, the idea has gained currency and is now a centerpiece of the legislation being developed, aides said.

A person familiar with the legislative planning said the biometric data would likely be either fingerprints or a scan of the veins in the top of the hand. It would be required of all workers, including teenagers, but would be phased in, with current workers needing to obtain the card only when they next changed jobs, the person said.

The card requirement also would be phased in among employers, beginning with industries that typically rely on illegal-immigrant labor.

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce doesn't have a position on the proposal, but it is concerned that employers would find it expensive and complicated to properly check the biometrics.

Mr. Schumer said employers would be able to buy a scanner to check the IDs for as much as $800.  Small employers, he said, could take their applicants to a government office to like the Department of Motor Vehicles and have their hands scanned there.



Link Posted: 3/9/2010 11:55:48 AM EDT
Do NOT want!!!!
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 12:04:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By flyfishnepa:
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Mark of the Beast - National Biometric Identification Cards.


That is not the mark of the beast.

Revelation 13:16  And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17  And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18  Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six


It is a mark that is "received" on the hand, not fingerprints or hand vein prints.



true but it's closer then i want to get

eta:  and this is a can of worms that shouldn't be opened IMO



It will be opened even given your concerns.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 12:09:42 PM EDT
I wonder if it is possible to make a tool that could make a 3d mark inside the hand without piercing the skin - sort of like two beams that alone would not do anything, but their combined phase/wave length could make an electronically readable mark on a bone in the hand.

(tinfoil) Don't worry, we are just scanning your hand (\tinfoil)
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 12:11:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Mark of the Beast - National Biometric Identification Cards.


That is not the mark of the beast.

Revelation 13:16  And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17  And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18  Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six


It is a mark that is "received" on the hand, not fingerprints or hand vein prints.



By putting your self into the system you would be "receiving" your number. Your ID number and fingerprint tied together is the same as writing your number in code.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 12:12:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Partisan:
Originally Posted By nashvillecat:
I just renewed my DL in Florida;I had to produce my birth certificate with raised state seal,social security card,and two bills showing my billing address.They scan all the documents and boom,you are in some unknown database to be bought, sold, or stolen. Absolute bullshit.


Can we find some way to get obummer a FL lic? I'd really like to see his birth cert.


Funny how that is, ain't it ??  
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 12:21:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2010 12:22:18 PM EDT by fishngrits]
Not the mark of the beast, just a stupid idea, being pushed by two morons.

 
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 12:22:17 PM EDT
"Biometrics" are just ways of measure everyone's distinct signature;  fingerprints, iris, facial characteristics, ear shape, odor, voice pattern, etc.

You already have a name, and you already have a number (SSN).
Biometrics allows for the accurate comparison of these, and ID of you as an individual -provided the initial ID and assessment is accurate (which is why so many documents are requested to get a passport).

When you get your photo taken at the DMV to get a license -congratulations! You now have a biometrically enabled Government ID card.
Same with Passport.

Why the heartburn over being required to have your Iris or Fingerprints captured, but not the Facial recognition data?
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 12:24:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By David14:
Make them tamper-proof. That's all I'm saying."

Nothing is tamper-proof, and Lindsey Graham is an idiot.

That's all I'm saying.



please stop insulting idiots...
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 12:26:26 PM EDT


Link Posted: 3/9/2010 12:36:31 PM EDT



Originally Posted By Terminus:

How much longer, America?




What are you asking? How much longer will the idiots in this country put up with this bullshit? If so, the answer is "forever".










 
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 12:46:49 PM EDT
It has less to with employment of illegals and more to do with "sweeping immigration reform." Call it what you want, but recognize it for what it is.

It's a prelude to legalizing unknown millions of border jumpers so they will have something to point to, confusing motion with progress.
They tried this amnesty before, and simpering Lindsey Graham(leftist, SC) was a ringleader.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 12:47:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2010 12:51:45 PM EDT by flyfishnepa]
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
"Biometrics" are just ways of measure everyone's distinct signature;  fingerprints, iris, facial characteristics, ear shape, odor, voice pattern, etc.

You already have a name, and you already have a number (SSN).
Biometrics allows for the accurate comparison of these, and ID of you as an individual -provided the initial ID and assessment is accurate (which is why so many documents are requested to get a passport).

When you get your photo taken at the DMV to get a license -congratulations! You now have a biometrically enabled Government ID card.
Same with Passport.

Why the heartburn over being required to have your Iris or Fingerprints captured, but not the Facial recognition data?


for one i don't have to drive nor get a drivers license

second the license i have is issued by my state not the federal gov't

three why are the dems trying to mandate that everyone MUST have health insurance coverage

four why should i as an american citizen be FORCED to get a national id just to be able to work in my own country

where in the constitution does it give the federal gov't this kind of power

i don't see how people can not be outraged over this

ETA:  maybe i'm way off base and overreacting
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 12:55:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By flyfishnepa:
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
"Biometrics" are just ways of measure everyone's distinct signature;  fingerprints, iris, facial characteristics, ear shape, odor, voice pattern, etc.

You already have a name, and you already have a number (SSN).
Biometrics allows for the accurate comparison of these, and ID of you as an individual -provided the initial ID and assessment is accurate (which is why so many documents are requested to get a passport).

When you get your photo taken at the DMV to get a license -congratulations! You now have a biometrically enabled Government ID card.
Same with Passport.

Why the heartburn over being required to have your Iris or Fingerprints captured, but not the Facial recognition data?


for one i don't have to drive nor get a drivers license

second the license i have is issued by my state not the federal gov't

The data is accessed by the Federal Government, so you have supplied them with a biometrically enabled ID card.


three why are the dems trying to mandate that everyone MUST have health insurance coverage
Because they can't then claim to be against "insurance companies denying coverage for pre-existing conditions".
If you can't be denied coverage, you don't NEED insurance -you just wait until you are sick.

That's why the bill is so crappy and coercive.


four why should i as an american citizen be FORCED to get a national id just to be able to work in my own country
You shouldn't.
Unless you are a citizen who vociferously demands that the government solve the illegal immigration problem.
If you want a solution to that problem, you are asking for just such and ID card.


where in the constitution does it give the federal gov't this kind of power
It doesn't.


i don't see how people can not be outraged over this



I don't see how you can outraged about this, but not about providing a photo for a DL or Passport.




Link Posted: 3/9/2010 12:58:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2010 12:59:40 PM EDT by sterinn]
Originally Posted By cwebbcam:
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Mark of the Beast - National Biometric Identification Cards.


That is not the mark of the beast.

Revelation 13:16  And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17  And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18  Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six


It is a mark that is "received" on the hand, not fingerprints or hand vein prints.



By putting your self into the system you would be "receiving" your number. Your ID number and fingerprint tied together is the same as writing your number in code.


Exactly-
By scaning your hand- they give you an I.D- making your mark - in your hand.

Never ever will I allow myself or my family through full body scanners or through this crap.  

Off the grid and fo'ing we will fo, we will fo.

Link Posted: 3/9/2010 1:02:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
Originally Posted By flyfishnepa:
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
"Biometrics" are just ways of measure everyone's distinct signature;  fingerprints, iris, facial characteristics, ear shape, odor, voice pattern, etc.

You already have a name, and you already have a number (SSN).
Biometrics allows for the accurate comparison of these, and ID of you as an individual -provided the initial ID and assessment is accurate (which is why so many documents are requested to get a passport).

When you get your photo taken at the DMV to get a license -congratulations! You now have a biometrically enabled Government ID card.
Same with Passport.

Why the heartburn over being required to have your Iris or Fingerprints captured, but not the Facial recognition data?


for one i don't have to drive nor get a drivers license

second the license i have is issued by my state not the federal gov't

The data is accessed by the Federal Government, so you have supplied them with a biometrically enabled ID card.


three why are the dems trying to mandate that everyone MUST have health insurance coverage
Because they can't then claim to be against "insurance companies denying coverage for pre-existing conditions".
If you can't be denied coverage, you don't NEED insurance -you just wait until you are sick.

That's why the bill is so crappy and coercive.


four why should i as an american citizen be FORCED to get a national id just to be able to work in my own country
You shouldn't.
Unless you are a citizen who vociferously demands that the government solve the illegal immigration problem.
If you want a solution to that problem, you are asking for just such and ID card.


where in the constitution does it give the federal gov't this kind of power
It doesn't.


i don't see how people can not be outraged over this



I don't see how you can outraged about this, but not about providing a photo for a DL or Passport.



im not mandated to get either, it's a personal choice

mandating a national id is not, you figure it out

Link Posted: 3/9/2010 1:04:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2010 1:07:01 PM EDT by flyfishnepa]
Originally Posted By sterinn:
Originally Posted By cwebbcam:
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Mark of the Beast - National Biometric Identification Cards.


That is not the mark of the beast.

Revelation 13:16  And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17  And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18  Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six


It is a mark that is "received" on the hand, not fingerprints or hand vein prints.



By putting your self into the system you would be "receiving" your number. Your ID number and fingerprint tied together is the same as writing your number in code.


Exactly-
By scaning your hand- they give you an I.D- making your mark - in your hand.

Never ever will I allow myself or my family through full body scanners or through this crap.  

Off the grid and fo'ing we will fo, we will fo.



that is an interesting way to look at it

how do you remove your veins once they've been scanned and given a number?  you can't

Link Posted: 3/9/2010 1:05:16 PM EDT
Get rid of the welfare state and it won't matter if workers are here illegally, as they will sink or swim on their own merits.  Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
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