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Posted: 1/9/2005 10:08:08 AM EDT
Marines prowl streets of downtown Toledo
City hosts urban warfare exercise




By ERICA BLAKE
BLADE STAFF WRITER


Mark Lehmann was absent-mindedly walking down Jefferson Avenue yesterday when he found himself in the middle of a gunfight involving men dressed in camouflage crouched behind mounds of snow.

Stunned, the 41-year-old Toledoan stopped in the intersection of Jefferson and Ontario Street for a moment. His presence, however, seemed to go unnoticed by the 20 or so Marines who quickly jumped up and ran past him.

Like many unsuspecting residents, Mr. Lehmann found himself in the midst of a urban warfare training exercise going on throughout the weekend in downtown Toledo. While cars drove by and pedestrians stared, Reservists assigned to Weapons Company, 1st Battalion, 24th Marines based in Perrysburg Township worked their way through the streets with their M-16A2 rifles ready, encountering staged hostile situations along the way.


Curious and surprised spectators watch the Marine exercises downtown. James Eggleston of Elyria used his video camera to capture the military training for later viewing.


"It shocked me," Mr. Lehmann admitted.

"It's kind of odd them being downtown. I would think they'd be in a rural area."

Training in woods and fields may have been relevant in the past, said Maj. Gregory Cramer. But as more and more military operations occur in urban settings, so is the training.

The exercises took place throughout the day and will continue today, Major Cramer said. The 130 Marines carried rifles that fired blanks. The exercises occurred north of Monroe Street, west of the Maumee River, south and west of Cherry Street, south of Woodruff Avenue, and east of Collingwood Boulevard.

In groups of about 20, the Marines set out with a specific route planned and a mission to accomplish.

When not on the streets, the Reservists were given classroom instruction on everything from weapons to first aid in 610 Monroe St. - a vacant building transformed into the battalion's training headquarters.

Lance Cpl. Ryan Brillhart, 22, of Toledo, was deployed to Kuwait and Iraq with his battalion for eight months in 2003. A carpenter, Corporal Brillhart said the weekend's training is essential to help prepare him for situations he may face if ever deployed again. Currently there are no deployment orders for the battalion.

"Every time we go out, we are responsible for each other, we are responsible for coming home, but most importantly we have to make sure that we get our mission done," he said.

Cpl. Bradley Baker, 23, of Maumee, said the reaction of residents on the streets ranged from shock to supportive. He said he also noticed the protesters who lined up across the street for a couple of hours yesterday morning.

Holding signs that said, "We love you, stay home," and "Bush, Cheney, & Rumsfeld lied, Our soldiers died," about 15 members of Veterans for Peace and the Northwest Ohio Peace Coalition spoke through a bullhorn to the Marines, asking them to make their own decisions about the war and telling them that they would be supported if they turned away from the military.

The groups plan to resume their protest today.

Trudy Bond, 52, who was arrested Friday night for coming too close to the training exercise, said the group was not protesting the troops but rather the war. A psychologist from Toledo, Ms. Bond said she was booked on charges of obstructing official business and disorderly conduct and has a court date tomorrow.

"We do support the troops completely," she said. "More than anything, we want them home and alive."

Corporal Bradley, who works as a security guard, said he believed the group has the right to protest and was not daunted by their presence.

"It's their right to freedom of assembly," he said. "If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't be doing this."

Link Posted: 1/9/2005 10:09:25 AM EDT
Thanks for the post.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 10:11:43 AM EDT
I bet that would be surprise to walk around a city street corner and see Marines popping off rounds.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 10:17:55 AM EDT
While in the NG we would sometimes do ftx out among people,usually involving practice rigging a bridge to blow up(combat engineer unit).Sometimes we would get looks from people driving over the bridge while we were under it.About 95% of our stuff was done out in the woods though.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 10:22:41 AM EDT
Could an unknowing passer by mistake this for real gunfire?

What would happen if a dude with his ccw popped a marine?

Link Posted: 1/9/2005 10:36:27 AM EDT
The difference between live and blank fire is great enough for anyone to realize they aren't in danger.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 10:44:44 AM EDT


I don't understand those people (protestors)...never will.

Ben
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 10:49:28 AM EDT
Think they'd get a kick out of a civillian dumping a mag of blanks on them?
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:02:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By strykermcdeathkill:
Think they'd get a kick out of a civillian dumping a mag of blanks on them?



yeah it would be alot of fun to play OPFOR for em
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:03:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:03:22 AM EDT
I think they do this every year there.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:05:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ilikelegs:
They must be carrying all those full-autos people talk about getting on the second day of the revolution.



true... guys with machine guns and no ammo... hope they dont try that in a gang area....
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:14:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I bet that would be surprise to walk around a city street corner and see Marines popping off rounds.



Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:15:42 AM EDT
Another example of people not knowing how the government functions. Going to a military exercise to protest a war. HELLO PEOPLE, IT'S NOT THE MILITARY THAT CHOOSES THE WAR! God I hate these ignorant people.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:15:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:

Originally Posted By strykermcdeathkill:
Think they'd get a kick out of a civillian dumping a mag of blanks on them?



yeah it would be alot of fun to play OPFOR for em





A few years back there was (Krulak was CMC at the tme) talk about using part of PGH for training (never happened) .


Anyway, I called the local Reserve unit and offered to OPFOR for then.

Refused.

Liability reasons.



A lot of us could really have a lot of fun being an Urban Guerilla OPFOR.


(Some of us are probably slick enough to really give them a run for their money, too!)
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:32:01 AM EDT
If that happened here in Minneapolis, our brave senator, Mark Dayton, would probably close his office & go home, scared of the danger.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 12:00:20 PM EDT
There was a great photo in the Lynchburg paper a few months ago showing a Marine pieing a building looking down the street as a guy in a suit walks toward him. Everyone need practice. Kind of hard to do urban training in the woods.

Sort of like when jets fly over, I look up and am glad to know they are ours!



Link Posted: 1/9/2005 1:59:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 2:00:50 PM EDT by lippo]

Originally Posted By SGT_GRUNT_USMC:
Marines prowl streets of downtown Toledo
City hosts urban warfare exercise




By ERICA BLAKE
BLADE STAFF WRITER


Mark Lehmann was absent-mindedly walking down Jefferson Avenue yesterday when he found himself in the middle of a gunfight involving men dressed in camouflage crouched behind mounds of snow.

Stunned, the 41-year-old Toledoan stopped in the intersection of Jefferson and Ontario Street for a moment. His presence, however, seemed to go unnoticed by the 20 or so Marines who quickly jumped up and ran past him.

Like many unsuspecting residents, Mr. Lehmann found himself in the midst of a urban warfare training exercise going on throughout the weekend in downtown Toledo. While cars drove by and pedestrians stared, Reservists assigned to Weapons Company, 1st Battalion, 24th Marines based in Perrysburg Township worked their way through the streets with their M-16A2 rifles ready, encountering staged hostile situations along the way.


Curious and surprised spectators watch the Marine exercises downtown. James Eggleston of Elyria used his video camera to capture the military training for later viewing.


"It shocked me," Mr. Lehmann admitted.

"It's kind of odd them being downtown. I would think they'd be in a rural area."

Training in woods and fields may have been relevant in the past, said Maj. Gregory Cramer. But as more and more military operations occur in urban settings, so is the training.

The exercises took place throughout the day and will continue today, Major Cramer said. The 130 Marines carried rifles that fired blanks. The exercises occurred north of Monroe Street, west of the Maumee River, south and west of Cherry Street, south of Woodruff Avenue, and east of Collingwood Boulevard.

In groups of about 20, the Marines set out with a specific route planned and a mission to accomplish.

When not on the streets, the Reservists were given classroom instruction on everything from weapons to first aid in 610 Monroe St. - a vacant building transformed into the battalion's training headquarters.

Lance Cpl. Ryan Brillhart, 22, of Toledo, was deployed to Kuwait and Iraq with his battalion for eight months in 2003. A carpenter, Corporal Brillhart said the weekend's training is essential to help prepare him for situations he may face if ever deployed again. Currently there are no deployment orders for the battalion.

"Every time we go out, we are responsible for each other, we are responsible for coming home, but most importantly we have to make sure that we get our mission done," he said.

Cpl. Bradley Baker, 23, of Maumee, said the reaction of residents on the streets ranged from shock to supportive. He said he also noticed the protesters who lined up across the street for a couple of hours yesterday morning.

Holding signs that said, "We love you, stay home," and "Bush, Cheney, & Rumsfeld lied, Our soldiers died," about 15 members of Veterans for Peace and the Northwest Ohio Peace Coalition spoke through a bullhorn to the Marines, asking them to make their own decisions about the war and telling them that they would be supported if they turned away from the military.

The groups plan to resume their protest today.

Trudy Bond, 52, who was arrested Friday night for coming too close to the training exercise, said the group was not protesting the troops but rather the war. A psychologist from Toledo, Ms. Bond said she was booked on charges of obstructing official business and disorderly conduct and has a court date tomorrow.

"We do support the troops completely," she said. "More than anything, we want them home and alive."

Corporal Bradley, who works as a security guard, said he believed the group has the right to protest and was not daunted by their presence.

"It's their right to freedom of assembly," he said. "If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't be doing this."





What did I say? I said that a lot of people wouldn't hear about this. I am surprized some "unsuspecting" person, didn't pull a pistol and shoot one of them. There are STUPID people out there and not every knows what blanks sound like.

Urban training on PUBLIC and PRIVATE property is going to get someone sued, injured or killed. Mark my words. If you have a smaller town that oks it with all of their population and they all know about it, that's one thing. Dumping this thing on Toledo like they did = stupid.

And yes, I do have a problem with this. 12 years in the military and I do support our military. However, anyone uses my property for ANYTHING without my permission will get them a day in court or shot.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 2:14:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 2:16:40 PM EDT by twonami]
I'd grab my AR and ask, "can I play"
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 2:24:48 PM EDT
Toledo bans most if not all guns in the city...

Link Posted: 1/9/2005 2:32:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
Could an unknowing passer by mistake this for real gunfire?

What would happen if a dude with his ccw popped a marine?




That's what I was thinking. While I certainly don't have a problem with the training, I'm wondering what, if any, steps were taken to prevent such an accident.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 2:35:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SGT_GRUNT_USMC:

"We do support the troops completely," she said. "More than anything, we want them home and alive."





The latest BS propaganda line from the Leftists......... the same ones who carry signs reading, "We support our troops when they shoot their officers".

I believe in free speach, but IMO these people have now become traitors. If they accidentally got run over by a tank, I wouldn't shed a single tear.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 2:43:45 PM EDT
Why can't anything this cool happen in MY home town?

Heck, I'd LOVE to get handed an AK-47 and a bunch of magazines full of blanks and play OPFOR in the city. I just hope some dumbass cop doesn't play hero and start shooting at me. Or my dog.

With those paintrounds (combines blanks and paintball! The only way it gets more realistic is if somebody loses a body part!), I bet we could have one HECK of a good time. I could even "accidentally" spray some protesters with paint from my gun and say "oops! must've been those more thrusts per squeeze!"

And I do believe that while most of us would be fodder for the marines just as much as the terrorist scumbags in Iraq, quite a few of us could give them a run for their money.

Oh man. Imagine being given free reign to travel anywhere in the city during the excercise. Just imagine the looks your fire team would get escorting your sniper to an upper floor in an office building.

"Excuse me, is this floor accounting? Do you mind if I use your office while they guard the elevator? Your window opens, right? Free earplugs for everyone!"

Heck, just climb down a manhole, slide up to the storm drain and pop them in the legs as they go past. Better yet, shoot them after they've gone by, then they'll have no idea where they're taking fire from.

Man, there are so many ways this could be awesome. We definitely gotta petition the military to do more excercises like this and let civilians play OPFOR to represent the wide range of experience (from idiot couch commando to ex-marine) our troops could face in an urban combat zone. It'd rock.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 2:54:12 PM EDT
Why would two of you (at the time of my posting) even suggest pulling a CCW and shooting at a Marine? I don't think the Marines are pointing their weapons at civilian passers-by...

Get a freakin' life, and let the Marines do their job.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 3:13:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By SGT_GRUNT_USMC:
Marines prowl streets of downtown Toledo
City hosts urban warfare exercise




By ERICA BLAKE
BLADE STAFF WRITER


Mark Lehmann was absent-mindedly walking down Jefferson Avenue yesterday when he found himself in the middle of a gunfight involving men dressed in camouflage crouched behind mounds of snow.

Stunned, the 41-year-old Toledoan stopped in the intersection of Jefferson and Ontario Street for a moment. His presence, however, seemed to go unnoticed by the 20 or so Marines who quickly jumped up and ran past him.

Like many unsuspecting residents, Mr. Lehmann found himself in the midst of a urban warfare training exercise going on throughout the weekend in downtown Toledo. While cars drove by and pedestrians stared, Reservists assigned to Weapons Company, 1st Battalion, 24th Marines based in Perrysburg Township worked their way through the streets with their M-16A2 rifles ready, encountering staged hostile situations along the way.


Curious and surprised spectators watch the Marine exercises downtown. James Eggleston of Elyria used his video camera to capture the military training for later viewing.


"It shocked me," Mr. Lehmann admitted.

"It's kind of odd them being downtown. I would think they'd be in a rural area."

Training in woods and fields may have been relevant in the past, said Maj. Gregory Cramer. But as more and more military operations occur in urban settings, so is the training.

The exercises took place throughout the day and will continue today, Major Cramer said. The 130 Marines carried rifles that fired blanks. The exercises occurred north of Monroe Street, west of the Maumee River, south and west of Cherry Street, south of Woodruff Avenue, and east of Collingwood Boulevard.

In groups of about 20, the Marines set out with a specific route planned and a mission to accomplish.

When not on the streets, the Reservists were given classroom instruction on everything from weapons to first aid in 610 Monroe St. - a vacant building transformed into the battalion's training headquarters.

Lance Cpl. Ryan Brillhart, 22, of Toledo, was deployed to Kuwait and Iraq with his battalion for eight months in 2003. A carpenter, Corporal Brillhart said the weekend's training is essential to help prepare him for situations he may face if ever deployed again. Currently there are no deployment orders for the battalion.

"Every time we go out, we are responsible for each other, we are responsible for coming home, but most importantly we have to make sure that we get our mission done," he said.

Cpl. Bradley Baker, 23, of Maumee, said the reaction of residents on the streets ranged from shock to supportive. He said he also noticed the protesters who lined up across the street for a couple of hours yesterday morning.

Holding signs that said, "We love you, stay home," and "Bush, Cheney, & Rumsfeld lied, Our soldiers died," about 15 members of Veterans for Peace and the Northwest Ohio Peace Coalition spoke through a bullhorn to the Marines, asking them to make their own decisions about the war and telling them that they would be supported if they turned away from the military.

The groups plan to resume their protest today.

Trudy Bond, 52, who was arrested Friday night for coming too close to the training exercise, said the group was not protesting the troops but rather the war. A psychologist from Toledo, Ms. Bond said she was booked on charges of obstructing official business and disorderly conduct and has a court date tomorrow.

"We do support the troops completely," she said. "More than anything, we want them home and alive."

Corporal Bradley, who works as a security guard, said he believed the group has the right to protest and was not daunted by their presence.

"It's their right to freedom of assembly," he said. "If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't be doing this."





What did I say? I said that a lot of people wouldn't hear about this. I am surprized some "unsuspecting" person, didn't pull a pistol and shoot one of them. There are STUPID people out there and not every knows what blanks sound like.

Urban training on PUBLIC and PRIVATE property is going to get someone sued, injured or killed. Mark my words. If you have a smaller town that oks it with all of their population and they all know about it, that's one thing. Dumping this thing on Toledo like they did = stupid.

And yes, I do have a problem with this. 12 years in the military and I do support our military. However, anyone uses my property for ANYTHING without my permission will get them a day in court or shot.



Didn't someone get wasted a couple years ago during Robin Sage?
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 3:24:15 PM EDT
Does anybody have any pics?

Round trip plane tickets:  $216.83
Three nights at the Holiday Inn Express:  $329.87
New underwear:  $3.98
The look on Aunt Bessie's face:  Priceless


Come on guys, somebody out there had to snap a few pics or get a few minutes of video.

Keith
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 3:45:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 5:02:34 PM EDT by oneshot1kill]

asking them to make their own decisions about the war and telling them that they would be supported if they turned away from the military.



You just don't ask a Marine to turn away from the military and then say that you will support him.

There is no turning away, especially during wartime.  The protestors say they would rather see them home and alive, and will support them if they turn away.

They also know that a Marine who turns away from the military will be courtmartialed, dishonorably discharged, and subsequently locked away in a Federal prison cell.

Protestors prefer to have our Marines locked up in prison, than see them fight the war.
At least they will be alive...



That's not living.
Marines would much rather fight!

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