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Posted: 10/6/2004 11:09:28 AM EST
Quick question for you guys. Are 0311s issued sidearms if your in a combat zone? If not is it possible to carry your own? Thanks guys!hug.gif
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 11:30:13 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 11:33:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2004 11:35:20 AM EST by Lightning_P38]
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 11:35:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:
Of course, haven't you ever played a video game, they get to pick whatever they want from a huge warehouse. They normally carry three rifles, two rocket launchers and at least five pistols.



lol, I always knew video games were accurate!
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 11:40:03 AM EST
In my unit, SGT and above were issued an M-9 as were M-240G gunners. M-240G A-gunners did not rate a pistol. I was an M-249 gunner and did not rate a pistol.

Semper Fi
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 11:40:09 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 11:48:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:

Originally Posted By ctprelude:
lol, I always knew video games were accurate!hr


Actually I have just gotten tired of explaining to people that military life is not much like what they see in the games and movies, that your entire enlistment is not four years of boot camp interupted by bouts of tango chasing, and that not every job in the military is the same. There are to many people who have a fantasy about military life, that they are not willing to give up when confronted with the mundane facts of military life.



That's understandable. Trust me I DEFINATELY KNOW that military life is far from what is depicted in movies and games. Only reason I ask is because I plan on enlisting and it was just something I was curious about.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 11:58:01 AM EST
Interesting question. When I was enlisted, I humped an M-16. After I got commissioned, they made me ditch my rifle and carry a 1911. I didn't mind that too much since I had a Mk-4 Model 70 anyway. .45 ACP...fine. I don't think I'd want to carry the M-9 though, not after what I've read the paper from PEO Soldier about the weapons and gear from OIF. The grunts don't much like that pistol...not at all. Why not just issue those folks that would normally carry a pisto, a shorty M-4 carbine...or even something even smaller...but a real gun?
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 12:03:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2004 12:05:31 PM EST by ctprelude]

Originally Posted By LWilde:
Interesting question. When I was enlisted, I humped an M-16. After I got commissioned, they made me ditch my rifle and carry a 1911. I didn't mind that too much since I had a Mk-4 Model 70 anyway. .45 ACP...fine. I don't think I'd want to carry the M-9 though, not after what I've read the paper from PEO Soldier about the weapons and gear from OIF. The grunts don't much like that pistol...not at all. Why not just issue those folks that would normally carry a pisto, a shorty M-4 carbine...or even something even smaller...but a real gun? hr


Yeah I would much rather carry an M16 than not, but it would be great if I could bring my HK USP 45 and carry that. I figured it was kind of unrealistic though. I've also heard that most of the failures with the M9 come from non Beretta magazines failing. Dont know how true that is though.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 12:07:54 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 12:09:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By ctprelude:
Quick question for you guys. Are 0311s issued sidearms if your in a combat zone? If not is it possible to carry your own? Thanks guys!

No, and No.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 12:14:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By ctprelude:

Originally Posted By LWilde:
Interesting question. When I was enlisted, I humped an M-16. After I got commissioned, they made me ditch my rifle and carry a 1911. I didn't mind that too much since I had a Mk-4 Model 70 anyway. .45 ACP...fine. I don't think I'd want to carry the M-9 though, not after what I've read the paper from PEO Soldier about the weapons and gear from OIF. The grunts don't much like that pistol...not at all. Why not just issue those folks that would normally carry a pisto, a shorty M-4 carbine...or even something even smaller...but a real gun?



Yeah I would much rather carry an M16 than not, but it would be great if I could bring my HK USP 45 and carry that. I figured it was kind of unrealistic though. I've also heard that most of the failures with the M9 come from non Beretta magazines failing. Dont know how true that is though.



That is a big part of it. The springs in the magazines being issued are not strong enough (or have weakened over time). Stick with the M16, you will be happy.


Bigfeet
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 12:20:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2004 12:22:21 PM EST by ctprelude]

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:

Originally Posted By ctprelude:

Yeah I would much rather carry an M16 than not, but it would be great if I could bring my HK USP 45 and carry that. I figured it was kind of unrealistic though.



The real reason that carrying your own arms is frowned upon, is support, where would you get a new firing pin for an exotic pistol in the middle of a war zone? Outside of the Special Operations, units do not have gunsmiths, they have armorers who are trained to make repairs to wepaons systems assigned to thier units, they rarely have much experience on working on anything else.



Makes sense, but at the same time I think it would be better to have a backup weapon even if parts are not available just in case. I guess if they started allowing soldiers to carry their own sidearms they would want to carry their own rifles,equipment, etc. too. Oh well. Just expressing my thoughts. Thanks for the replies!
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 12:24:02 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 12:28:07 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 1:12:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sixgun357:
hr


You saying I'm a troll??
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 1:16:04 PM EST

I believe he is.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 1:23:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By ctprelude:
Yeah I would much rather carry an M16 than not, but it would be great if I could bring my HK USP 45 and carry that. I figured it was kind of unrealistic though. I've also heard that most of the failures with the M9 come from non Beretta magazines failing. Dont know how true that is though.



Are you an 0311 already or do you have desires to be one? What your issued is based on the TO/E for that particular unit and the billet you fill (Billet, not so much MOS and rank, because if you are filling a billet you get the weapons associated with that billet). So yes in some units 0311's may be issued a side arm, but it is rare and it doesn't happen in a line company.


By the way my M9 went bang everytime I used it in contact, so even with the checkmate mags, it still worked.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 5:50:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By STLRN:

Originally Posted By ctprelude:
Yeah I would much rather carry an M16 than not, but it would be great if I could bring my HK USP 45 and carry that. I figured it was kind of unrealistic though. I've also heard that most of the failures with the M9 come from non Beretta magazines failing. Dont know how true that is though.



Are you an 0311 already or do you have desires to be one? What your issued is based on the TO/E for that particular unit and the billet you fill (Billet, not so much MOS and rank, because if you are filling a billet you get the weapons associated with that billet). So yes in some units 0311's may be issued a side arm, but it is rare and it doesn't happen in a line company.


By the way my M9 went bang everytime I used it in contact, so even with the checkmate mags, it still worked.



No, I'm planning on enlisting in roughly 6 months. Right now I am starting to train and make myself familiar with all of the material that will need to be memorized such as the general orders, etc.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 5:54:19 PM EST
FWIW, either the Army or the Marine Corps was talking about issuing sidearms to everybody.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 5:58:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
FWIW, either the Army or the Marine Corps was talking about issuing sidearms to everybody.



As a taxpayer I would be willing to pay what was necessary to make it happen.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 5:59:05 PM EST
Generally the Marine Corps doesn't want you to arrive at Boot or TBS with allot of bad habits when it comes to weappns, the old saying is that we what you to learn the Marine Corps way.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:17:30 PM EST
We were spinning up for Operation Urban Warrior and some how our fine officers decided to issue the M-4's to our new anti sniper detachment.. What the Fuck!

"Hay Major Appliance, Us mortar men would love to carry the smaller weapon since we need to hump around this base plate, and the bipod and other shit. And since you think is funny to watch us fast rope through the hell hole with full gear and a crew served weapon, and an M-16 we would be even happier to carry the M-4. You most likely will want a longer weapon if your anti sniper right? *Major appliance* Hmm that’s not what I read some place. Sit down Sergeant!!"

We were issued both M-16's, and the M9 when we did operations in E-Timor. But we were only playing cards at the time and had nothing else to do so why not right!
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:21:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By TZLVredmist:
We were spinning up for Operation Urban Warrior and some how our fine officers decided to issue the M-4's to our new anti sniper detachment.. What the Fuck!

"Hay Major Appliance, Us mortar men would love to carry the smaller weapon since we need to hump around this base plate, and the bipod and other shit. And since you think is funny to watch us fast rope through the hell hole with full gear and a crew served weapon, and an M-16 we would be even happier to carry the M-4. You most likely will want a longer weapon if your anti sniper right? *Major appliance* Hmm that’s not what I read some place. Sit down Sergeant!!"

We were issued both M-16's, and the M9 when we did operations in E-Timor. But we were only playing cards at the time and had nothing else to do so why not right!



Did you do the LOE or the COE for urban warrior?
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:22:18 PM EST
Our new MTOE has E-6 and below with M-16A4, E7-O2 with M-4 plus certain enlisted personnel such as wrecker driver, 0-3 and up with M-9 plus medics.

It is not a bad mix.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:24:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2004 6:26:26 PM EST by ctprelude]

Originally Posted By STLRN:
Generally the Marine Corps doesn't want you to arrive at Boot or TBS with allot of bad habits when it comes to weappns, the old saying is that we what you to learn the Marine Corps way.



Well if I have any bad habits when it comes to shooting I've had them for around 15 years. I started when I was about 6 and I'm about 21 now. I've been into this kind of stuff for a LONG time.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:28:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By ctprelude:
Well if I have any bad habits when it comes to shooting I've had them for around 15 years. I started when I was about 6 and I'm about 20 now. I've been into this kind of stuff for a LONG time.



I wish you the best, but normally the guys who show up with tons of fire arms experience have a hard time qualifying, your PMI will tell you off the bat to forget everything you know about shooting.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:30:31 PM EST
In the case of "joe grunt" in most any combat situation I would much rather have an extra three mags for the M-16 variant or a couple of grenades.

Not saying there is NEVER a use for a pistol, there certainly are, but to the average grunt, no. An M-67 is a much better CQB weapon.

The only time I ever carried a pistol in the service was on certain guard details and when I was a 60 gunner. The former was for show, the later because the 60, well its the 60.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:36:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By STLRN:

Originally Posted By ctprelude:
Well if I have any bad habits when it comes to shooting I've had them for around 15 years. I started when I was about 6 and I'm about 20 now. I've been into this kind of stuff for a LONG time.



I wish you the best, but normally the guys who show up with tons of fire arms experience have a hard time qualifying, your PMI will tell you off the bat to forget everything you know about shooting.



Really? What do they usually have trouble with?
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:48:08 PM EST
What the hell is an M-67
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:56:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
What the hell is an M-67



Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:57:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By ctprelude:

Originally Posted By STLRN:

Originally Posted By ctprelude:
Yeah I would much rather carry an M16 than not, but it would be great if I could bring my HK USP 45 and carry that. I figured it was kind of unrealistic though. I've also heard that most of the failures with the M9 come from non Beretta magazines failing. Dont know how true that is though.



Are you an 0311 already or do you have desires to be one? What your issued is based on the TO/E for that particular unit and the billet you fill (Billet, not so much MOS and rank, because if you are filling a billet you get the weapons associated with that billet). So yes in some units 0311's may be issued a side arm, but it is rare and it doesn't happen in a line company.


By the way my M9 went bang everytime I used it in contact, so even with the checkmate mags, it still worked.



No, I'm planning on enlisting in roughly 6 months. Right now I am starting to train and make myself familiar with all of the material that will need to be memorized such as the general orders, etc.



Although I joined the AF instead of the Marines, I can still say them in my sleep all of these years later...

1. Take charge of this post and all government property in view.

2. Walk my post in a military manner, keeping always on the alert and observing everything that takes place within sight or hearing.

3. Report all violations of orders I am instructed to enforce.

4. To repeat all calls [from posts] more distant from the guardhouse than my own.

5. Quit my post only when properly relieved.

6. To receive, obey, and pass on to the sentry who relieves me, all orders from the Commanding Officer, Officer of the Day, Officers, and Non-Commissioned Officers of the guard only.

7. Talk to no one except in the line of duty.

8. Give the alarm in case of fire or disorder.

9. To call the Corporal of the Guard in any case not covered by instructions.

10. Salute all officers and all colors and standards not cased.

11. Be especially watchful at night and during the time for challenging, to challenge all persons on or near my post, and to allow no one to pass without proper authority
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 7:07:02 PM EST
They have bad habits picked up from plinking, the only type of shooting that will prepare you for the KD course is KD style shooting. Unless you have background in high power matches most of your shooting experience will probably have lead to habits that are counter productive for the type of shooting you will do at boot.

For junior Marines there is not allot of pistol training, outside of MSG and MSF, the only people who will get entry level training with pistols is Lts at TBS.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 7:22:12 PM EST
In MCSFCO everyone gets a M9, god I hate mine.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 7:41:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By STLRN:
They have bad habits picked up from plinking, the only type of shooting that will prepare you for the KD course is KD style shooting. Unless you have background in high power matches most of your shooting experience will probably have lead to habits that are counter productive for the type of shooting you will do at boot.

For junior Marines there is not allot of pistol training, outside of MSG and MSF, the only people who will get entry level training with pistols is Lts at TBS.



Excuse my ignorance, but what does KD stand for? I don't think that I have any bad habits. My father was in the Corp and he is the one who taught me how to shoot. Either way I guess I will find out. Thanks for all of your help btw.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 7:45:15 PM EST
I knew that!
Hell, I thought he was talking some exotic M-16 variant.

But the jist that a sidearm is just extra wieght is pretty true.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 7:47:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By ctprelude:
Yeah I would much rather carry an M16 than not, but it would be great if I could bring my HK USP 45 and carry that. I figured it was kind of unrealistic though. I've also heard that most of the failures with the M9 come from non Beretta magazines failing. Dont know how true that is though.



I can tell you first hand that the most failures we experienced with the Beretta 92FS was from non-Beretta mags. It is a very reliable weapon, until you throw a $20 mag in to it.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 7:54:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By STLRN:
I wish you the best, but normally the guys who show up with tons of fire arms experience have a hard time qualifying, your PMI will tell you off the bat to forget everything you know about shooting. /quote]

The PMI's will indeed tell you that. But if the old man has taught you well you will shoot well.

My PMI told me because I grew up hunting I would have trouble qualifying, I won the 96' Western Div Rifle Championship, and never got to show SGT Williams(PMI) the Gold medal or the Secretary of the Navy trophy M1 I won. If you can hit the black as a civilian you can do it as a Marine.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 8:06:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By sgthoskins:

Originally Posted By ctprelude:
Yeah I would much rather carry an M16 than not, but it would be great if I could bring my HK USP 45 and carry that. I figured it was kind of unrealistic though. I've also heard that most of the failures with the M9 come from non Beretta magazines failing. Dont know how true that is though.



I can tell you first hand that the most failures we experienced with the Beretta 92FS was from non-Beretta mags. It is a very reliable weapon, until you throw a $20 mag in to it.



How about maybe a $5 or $10 mag. I'm almost certain Checkmate has a GSA contract, but I haven't seen it, so I can't say.

You can pick up Mec-Gar mags for about $20 and they will perform flawlessly in most conditions.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 8:35:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By ctprelude:

Originally Posted By STLRN:
They have bad habits picked up from plinking, the only type of shooting that will prepare you for the KD course is KD style shooting. Unless you have background in high power matches most of your shooting experience will probably have lead to habits that are counter productive for the type of shooting you will do at boot.

For junior Marines there is not allot of pistol training, outside of MSG and MSF, the only people who will get entry level training with pistols is Lts at TBS.



Excuse my ignorance, but what does KD stand for? I don't think that I have any bad habits. My father was in the Corp and he is the one who taught me how to shoot. Either way I guess I will find out. Thanks for all of your help btw.



KD stands for Known Distance. It's one of two rifle ranges. The other being unknown distance, of course.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 8:36:23 PM EST
I have about 20 Checkmate mags and they all perform flawlessly.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 8:37:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By RustedAce:
In MCSFCO everyone gets a M9, god I hate mine.



Hey ACE, I was an 8152 stationed at NSB Bangor, WA, where were/are you stationed at?
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 8:45:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By Fire_for_Effect:

Originally Posted By ctprelude:
Originally Posted By STLRN:



KD stands for Known Distance. It's one of two rifle ranges. The other being unknown distance, of course.



Ahh, thanks.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 2:24:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2004 2:25:13 AM EST by STLRN]
There are actual 2 qual course in the Marine Corps, the KD (also known now as the ELR) and SLR (Sustainment Revel Rifle marksmanship course) The KD is only really shot at boot and TBS, in the FMF you shoot the SLR. There use to be a 3rd, the B mod for reserve units that didn't have 500 m lines, but that hasn't been valid for around 10 years.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 3:53:26 AM EST
I seem to recall that the 1MEF ARR, or at least the parts they allowed published, from the original trip to Baghdad actually had them calling for MORE handguns to be issued. Especially to the infantry elements. Becuase of the large amount of time they spent crawling through houses and searching people.

And they said the M9 was "not well thought of" and were also all worn out and needed to be just replaced or rebuilt, and the magazines available were a special sorce of trouble.

If someone with search capability would be so kind as to call that up...
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 5:07:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2004 5:18:47 AM EST by DvlDog]
mmmmm...M67s make me tingly.... i carried a pistol as comm guy and would often check out a rifle as to have both. this was as a lance but only because i was A) a comm guy and B) im pretty smooth HAHAHA

but seriously, enlist as an 03, find out for yourself. too many kids who claim they plan to enlist worry about stupid shit. they ask the dumbest fucking questions:

how many guns do i get
can i take my glock to the sand box
how do i get into Delta
when im a SEAL will i get a discount from blackhawk
should i buy an AR to train with before i go


what you guys need to be worry about it is:

will i get the job i want
am i in good physical condition
will i pass the physical at MEPS
is my ASVAB high enough
can i keep my dumbass out of trouble till my ship date


the highest priority is to get in. to defeat the minefield of MEPS, ASVAB, grades, Family pressure and peer pressure and actually land on parris island. once that happens. then we'll talk about guns, schools, gear etc. sign the papers, and make us proud.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 5:21:11 AM EST
I heard Marines in Iraq just throw their crappy M16s away and just used battlefield pickup AK-47s and Makarovs.



Link Posted: 10/7/2004 8:40:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By ctprelude:
Quick question for you guys. Are 0311s issued sidearms if your in a combat zone? If not is it possible to carry your own? Thanks guys!


They're not issued, no. Not to 0311s.
BUT some commanders don't mind if you carry one that you "come across" in the course of your duties.
These leniencies change with the winds, though.

I have heard of marines who have brought along their personal Berettas. They just stencil a number on the grip, and stick it in a holster.
The difficulty is in trying to bring YOUR personal sidearm home. Odds are it will ghave to stay behind.
AND of course any found weapons stay behind, too.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 8:56:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
mmmmm...M67s make me tingly.... i carried a pistol as comm guy and would often check out a rifle as to have both. this was as a lance but only because i was A) a comm guy and B) im pretty smooth HAHAHA

but seriously, enlist as an 03, find out for yourself. too many kids who claim they plan to enlist worry about stupid shit. they ask the dumbest fucking questions:

how many guns do i get
can i take my glock to the sand box
how do i get into Delta
when im a SEAL will i get a discount from blackhawk
should i buy an AR to train with before i go


what you guys need to be worry about it is:

will i get the job i want
am i in good physical condition
will i pass the physical at MEPS
is my ASVAB high enough
can i keep my dumbass out of trouble till my ship date


the highest priority is to get in. to defeat the minefield of MEPS, ASVAB, grades, Family pressure and peer pressure and actually land on parris island. once that happens. then we'll talk about guns, schools, gear etc. sign the papers, and make us proud.



I'm not worried about it at all, I was just curious. I have already started doing everything necessary to prepare myself for basic. Also I'm definately NOT another dumb kid with fantasies of playing soldier just like in the movies. Thanks for all the replies guys!
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 11:55:56 AM EST
NO ONE has a copy of the AAR's?

I know there is a thread here I had it book marked untill the file with all my marked ARFCOM threads got deleted...
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 11:57:45 AM EST
You are correct the SysCom post OIF AAR mention Marines wanting more pistols, however that has gone no where,.
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