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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/8/2010 6:02:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2010 9:20:17 AM EDT by kmmuellr]
A large group of friends joined my wife and I for her birthday celebration at Friday night's Tiger's game (they lost ). During the course of the night, I was discussing what was going to keep me motivated to stay in shape after my weightloss challenge was done at the end of the month. I was convinced that I should run a marathon w/ a colleague of my wife's and her girlfriend.

October 17th, Detroit Freepress Marathon. We start training on Tuesday. Sept 7 is the last day of $90 entrance (jumps to $105 on the 8th), so we're going to see how its going then and decide if we'll do the whole or half marathon. I figure if we're going to do it, we may as well go whole hog!

Anyways, runners, what kind of tips? Websites? Books? I just read "Born To Run" and loved it. Very inspiring to read about some of the ultramarathoners, they're just crazy!

I'm not a runner, but could go out the door and knock off 3 miles in 25 min or less w/o a problem. Tomorrow I start week 6 of Strong-lifts 5x5 (I've jumped a week or so ahead on squats and benchpress), and I intend to continue the weightlifting while adding the running.

K
Link Posted: 8/8/2010 6:11:56 PM EDT
If the race is Oct 17th, and you have not been running you had better find another race or wait until next year.
You need 4-6 months to train and build up your mileage or you will end up with an injury. IMHO
Link Posted: 8/8/2010 6:56:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By walttx:
If the race is Oct 17th, and you have not been running you had better find another race or wait until next year.
You need 4-6 months to train and build up your mileage or you will end up with an injury. IMHO

Pretty much this. You need to already have a pretty solid base to be able to run a full marathon in that short of a time.

I would suggest running the half marathon instead.
Link Posted: 8/9/2010 5:53:47 AM EDT
Doing some reading after posting up last night, and I think you're right. The half marathon in October, then an early spring marathon.

Tips? Reading?

Thanks!
Link Posted: 8/9/2010 5:57:56 AM EDT

Jeff Galloway has a couple of books that I read.
Link Posted: 8/9/2010 10:00:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By kmmuellr:
Doing some reading after posting up last night, and I think you're right. The half marathon in October, then an early spring marathon.

Tips? Reading?

Thanks!


Very wise choice.

Recommendations: Daniels Running Formula and http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/
Link Posted: 8/10/2010 2:24:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2010 2:26:40 PM EDT by 0PSEC]
If you're trying to build muscle with 5x5s, marathon may be a paradoxical goal. Bulking up slows you down, and going long burns your bulk.

My particular experience: 20 miles used to be no big deal to me early in college. I was a stick. Later in college, I started trying to balance myself out and get some upper body strength. I'm probably 35 pounds heavier now than when I ran a marathon at 19. I can still go out and run ten miles, but much more than that is pushing it unless I change up my routine to focus more on running. I've got friends (who lift a lot more than I do) telling me that I should cut out my runs altogether if I'm serious about getting stronger.

Now, I'm sure it's not impossible to do both. But at the very least, you're going to spend a ton of time training, and you're going to need to eat like a mofo.

Half marathon is a much more realistic goal, as I'm convinced anyone, even big dudes, can go that distance if they put in the miles. If you don't have a time goal, I'd say just get out and run at least 3-4 times a week. It's a tough summer to do it. Particularly on hot days or days when I don't feel like running, I just travel straight out in one direction for 30 minutes or so, and that way I can't cut corners coming back when I'm wiped.
Link Posted: 8/11/2010 5:52:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 0PSEC:
If you're trying to build muscle with 5x5s, marathon may be a paradoxical goal. Bulking up slows you down, and going long burns your bulk.

My particular experience: 20 miles used to be no big deal to me early in college. I was a stick. Later in college, I started trying to balance myself out and get some upper body strength. I'm probably 35 pounds heavier now than when I ran a marathon at 19. I can still go out and run ten miles, but much more than that is pushing it unless I change up my routine to focus more on running. I've got friends (who lift a lot more than I do) telling me that I should cut out my runs altogether if I'm serious about getting stronger.

Now, I'm sure it's not impossible to do both. But at the very least, you're going to spend a ton of time training, and you're going to need to eat like a mofo.

Half marathon is a much more realistic goal, as I'm convinced anyone, even big dudes, can go that distance if they put in the miles. If you don't have a time goal, I'd say just get out and run at least 3-4 times a week. It's a tough summer to do it. Particularly on hot days or days when I don't feel like running, I just travel straight out in one direction for 30 minutes or so, and that way I can't cut corners coming back when I'm wiped.


+1
You'll never see a ripped soccer player, CC skier/runner, Navy SEAL, etc; they're lean as hell though. The bulk means you are carrying more weight around and requires more oxygen to feed your muscles. I don't see any reason you couldn't be huge and run a marathon, but it will be substantially harder than a stick from Kenya who weights 115lbs soaking wet.

I say 'Jack of all trades, master of nothing.' Pick ONE goal and run with it
Link Posted: 8/11/2010 9:53:30 AM EDT
There is an article in the September issue of Runners World about "crashing" a race on short notice. You could easily likely do a marathon in October if you goal is to just finish and not to set a record.
Link Posted: 8/11/2010 11:34:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 0PSEC:
If you're trying to build muscle with 5x5s, marathon may be a paradoxical goal. Bulking up slows you down, and going long burns your bulk.

My particular experience: 20 miles used to be no big deal to me early in college. I was a stick. Later in college, I started trying to balance myself out and get some upper body strength. I'm probably 35 pounds heavier now than when I ran a marathon at 19. I can still go out and run ten miles, but much more than that is pushing it unless I change up my routine to focus more on running. I've got friends (who lift a lot more than I do) telling me that I should cut out my runs altogether if I'm serious about getting stronger.

Now, I'm sure it's not impossible to do both. But at the very least, you're going to spend a ton of time training, and you're going to need to eat like a mofo.

Half marathon is a much more realistic goal, as I'm convinced anyone, even big dudes, can go that distance if they put in the miles. If you don't have a time goal, I'd say just get out and run at least 3-4 times a week. It's a tough summer to do it. Particularly on hot days or days when I don't feel like running, I just travel straight out in one direction for 30 minutes or so, and that way I can't cut corners coming back when I'm wiped.


This is not really true. Yes training a specific way tends to change which muscle fiber type is being utilized, but overall size has mostly to do with genetic makeup. Ive seen plenty of bigger (by your definition) guys run marathons and ultras...
Link Posted: 8/11/2010 11:48:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By smithc6:
Originally Posted By 0PSEC:
If you're trying to build muscle with 5x5s, marathon may be a paradoxical goal. Bulking up slows you down, and going long burns your bulk.

My particular experience: 20 miles used to be no big deal to me early in college. I was a stick. Later in college, I started trying to balance myself out and get some upper body strength. I'm probably 35 pounds heavier now than when I ran a marathon at 19. I can still go out and run ten miles, but much more than that is pushing it unless I change up my routine to focus more on running. I've got friends (who lift a lot more than I do) telling me that I should cut out my runs altogether if I'm serious about getting stronger.

Now, I'm sure it's not impossible to do both. But at the very least, you're going to spend a ton of time training, and you're going to need to eat like a mofo.

Half marathon is a much more realistic goal, as I'm convinced anyone, even big dudes, can go that distance if they put in the miles. If you don't have a time goal, I'd say just get out and run at least 3-4 times a week. It's a tough summer to do it. Particularly on hot days or days when I don't feel like running, I just travel straight out in one direction for 30 minutes or so, and that way I can't cut corners coming back when I'm wiped.


This is not really true. Yes training a specific way tends to change which muscle fiber type is being utilized, but overall size has mostly to do with genetic makeup. Ive seen plenty of bigger (by your definition) guys run marathons and ultras...

For sure there's people that can do both. I've just been surprised over time losing a minute or two on my 3-mile when I'm probably spending the same amount of time training and around the same overall level of fitness. I guess I should have highlighted "YMMV."
Link Posted: 8/11/2010 11:52:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 0PSEC:

Originally Posted By smithc6:
Originally Posted By 0PSEC:
If you're trying to build muscle with 5x5s, marathon may be a paradoxical goal. Bulking up slows you down, and going long burns your bulk.

My particular experience: 20 miles used to be no big deal to me early in college. I was a stick. Later in college, I started trying to balance myself out and get some upper body strength. I'm probably 35 pounds heavier now than when I ran a marathon at 19. I can still go out and run ten miles, but much more than that is pushing it unless I change up my routine to focus more on running. I've got friends (who lift a lot more than I do) telling me that I should cut out my runs altogether if I'm serious about getting stronger.

Now, I'm sure it's not impossible to do both. But at the very least, you're going to spend a ton of time training, and you're going to need to eat like a mofo.

Half marathon is a much more realistic goal, as I'm convinced anyone, even big dudes, can go that distance if they put in the miles. If you don't have a time goal, I'd say just get out and run at least 3-4 times a week. It's a tough summer to do it. Particularly on hot days or days when I don't feel like running, I just travel straight out in one direction for 30 minutes or so, and that way I can't cut corners coming back when I'm wiped.


This is not really true. Yes training a specific way tends to change which muscle fiber type is being utilized, but overall size has mostly to do with genetic makeup. Ive seen plenty of bigger (by your definition) guys run marathons and ultras...

For sure there's people that can do both. I've just been surprised over time losing a minute or two on my 3-mile when I'm probably spending the same amount of time training and around the same overall level of fitness. I guess I should have highlighted "YMMV."


So are you saying youre bulking up and losing time?

And a decrease in overall performance over time is pretty much guaranteed. Just as human beings we tend to degrade over our lifespan...
Link Posted: 8/11/2010 1:03:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By smithc6:


And a decrease in overall performance over time is pretty much guaranteed. Just as human beings we tend to degrade over our lifespan...


On a macro level yes, but I ran my fastest half marathon on my 41st birthday and today at almost 43, I am a much faster endurance cyclist (though not sprinter) than I have ever been, including college.

Link Posted: 8/11/2010 4:13:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By H46Driver:
Originally Posted By smithc6:


And a decrease in overall performance over time is pretty much guaranteed. Just as human beings we tend to degrade over our lifespan...


On a macro level yes, but I ran my fastest half marathon on my 41st birthday and today at almost 43, I am a much faster endurance cyclist (though not sprinter) than I have ever been, including college.



I meant more along the lines of across our lifespan we have a longitudinal decline in aerobic capacity, VO2 Max and overall strength...
Link Posted: 8/24/2010 2:55:30 AM EDT
+1 for the anti bulking and running at the same time idea. I've never been a runner, besides my mandatory 3milers in the corps. Love the weights though. Wife talked me into registering for our first marathon, this haloween. tried the run 4 days a week, and lift 3 routine. That lasted for about 3 weeks into training. When you're hitting the 25-30 miles per week ran point, you (in my experience) dont have a whole lot left to give to weights. I'm the same weight as when I started 4 months ago (5'8 150lbs), feel much weaker strength wise, but better stamina than I've ever had.

Im ready to go back to my 20 min cardio, and lifting. It was much eassier.

just my .02
Link Posted: 8/24/2010 6:00:49 AM EDT
Interesting reading.

I'm actually not doing the SL 5x5 to "bulk-up", I'm doing it just to get myself back into shape! Some bulk would be good, but I'm more of a lean build (when I keep the inner tube off my middle), so even w/ lifting, I won't be bulking much.

K
Link Posted: 8/24/2010 1:12:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

Originally Posted By walttx:
If the race is Oct 17th, and you have not been running you had better find another race or wait until next year.
You need 4-6 months to train and build up your mileage or you will end up with an injury. IMHO

Pretty much this. You need to already have a pretty solid base to be able to run a full marathon in that short of a time.

I would suggest running the half marathon instead.


I tend to agree with your assessment. I would go only with a half marathon max off of just a Crossfit base. If you want to do a marathon, plan at least 6 months in advance and do Crossfit Endurance training with some LSD thrown in ( One 10+ mile run per week or so).
Link Posted: 8/24/2010 1:13:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Originally Posted By 0PSEC:
If you're trying to build muscle with 5x5s, marathon may be a paradoxical goal. Bulking up slows you down, and going long burns your bulk.

My particular experience: 20 miles used to be no big deal to me early in college. I was a stick. Later in college, I started trying to balance myself out and get some upper body strength. I'm probably 35 pounds heavier now than when I ran a marathon at 19. I can still go out and run ten miles, but much more than that is pushing it unless I change up my routine to focus more on running. I've got friends (who lift a lot more than I do) telling me that I should cut out my runs altogether if I'm serious about getting stronger.

Now, I'm sure it's not impossible to do both. But at the very least, you're going to spend a ton of time training, and you're going to need to eat like a mofo.

Half marathon is a much more realistic goal, as I'm convinced anyone, even big dudes, can go that distance if they put in the miles. If you don't have a time goal, I'd say just get out and run at least 3-4 times a week. It's a tough summer to do it. Particularly on hot days or days when I don't feel like running, I just travel straight out in one direction for 30 minutes or so, and that way I can't cut corners coming back when I'm wiped.


This is not really true. Yes training a specific way tends to change which muscle fiber type is being utilized, but overall size has mostly to do with genetic makeup. Ive seen plenty of bigger (by your definition) guys run marathons and ultras...


Crossfitters tend to do well in this area.
Link Posted: 8/24/2010 1:54:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2010 1:54:58 PM EDT by smithc6]
Originally Posted By Thunder900:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

Originally Posted By walttx:
If the race is Oct 17th, and you have not been running you had better find another race or wait until next year.
You need 4-6 months to train and build up your mileage or you will end up with an injury. IMHO

Pretty much this. You need to already have a pretty solid base to be able to run a full marathon in that short of a time.

I would suggest running the half marathon instead.


I tend to agree with your assessment. I would go only with a half marathon max off of just a Crossfit base. If you want to do a marathon, plan at least 6 months in advance and do Crossfit Endurance training with some LSD thrown in ( One 10+ mile run per week or so).


If youre training to run a marathon, youre going to need to run a heel of a lot more than one 10+ mile run per week. Thats maybe what you were getting at with the plus, but most training programs have you hit 18 miles at about a month before the race, then taper from there.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:24:56 AM EDT
So I've been running. I just got done w/ 10.5 miles (1hr 34min). I finally broke down and got WrightSock Running II socks and body glide. No more blisters!

Where the hell is this runners high that I've heard about. I've never been a fan of running, and it sure as hell isn't getting any easier (OK, 4 miles is now a piece of cake where I couldn't do it before, but you know what I mean!) The last mile was a bitch!

I've got to get more of a program to my running as well. Last week I did 8 on Sunday, 4 fast (for me!) on Wed, and 9 on Saturday. Now 10.5 today, and I'll probably do another 4 or 5 on Fri and go for 11 or 12 on Sunday. Definately no set schedule!

K
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 1:58:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kmmuellr:
So I've been running. I just got done w/ 10.5 miles (1hr 34min). I finally broke down and got WrightSock Running II socks and body glide. No more blisters!

Where the hell is this runners high that I've heard about. I've never been a fan of running, and it sure as hell isn't getting any easier (OK, 4 miles is now a piece of cake where I couldn't do it before, but you know what I mean!) The last mile was a bitch!

I've got to get more of a program to my running as well. Last week I did 8 on Sunday, 4 fast (for me!) on Wed, and 9 on Saturday. Now 10.5 today, and I'll probably do another 4 or 5 on Fri and go for 11 or 12 on Sunday. Definately no set schedule!

K


I would only go long one day a week. A good schedule would be 2 medium-length runs, about 10K each, a long run (starting at 8 or so and ratcheting up to 13 as you get closer), and a speed day.
Link Posted: 9/16/2010 6:18:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter:


I would only go long one day a week. A good schedule would be 2 medium-length runs, about 10K each, a long run (starting at 8 or so and ratcheting up to 13 as you get closer), and a speed day.


This is a very good generic plan. I would possibly make one tweak - that one of the 10k days would have 2-4 miles of tempo (~10k race pace) and the 4th run of the week would be a more gently paced 3-5 miles. A more trained runner would glean greater benefit from your suggestion. Someone with fewer miles in his/her legs could probably use a recovery run between the long run and the tempo run.

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