Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
Posted: 4/19/2007 6:35:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2007 6:35:59 AM EDT by Aimless]
Title pretty much says it all.

Is it more prevalent in the industry in last year or two, compared to say five or six years ago?

Does it positively, or negatively affect the industry overall IYO?

Not asking to probe for industry "secrets". Just interested in your general opinions to these questions, pro or con, or other related areas you feel are relevant.
Link Posted: 4/19/2007 6:29:10 AM EDT
I work in the retail furniture/appliance/home electronics business.

We deal with MAP and UMRP all the time.

MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) doesn't prohibit me from selling for less, just for advertising a price lower than MAP. As Kyoshi stated, there are some instances where MAP is below my cost (some plasma TVs, for example).

UMRP (Unilateral Minimum Retail Price) is less common, but still used. Tempurpedic mattresses are sold at UMRP. You'll pay the same price no matter where you buy. Until not too long ago, high-end Maytag laundry was the same way. There are others.

Both systems are designed to help retailers maintain profit margins. Since I get paid by a retailer, I'm not one to object too loudly...

I used to work selling computers/networks. That industry has shot itself in the foot when it comes to margins on hardware. When you buy a $799 laptop at Staples/Best Buy/Wal-Mart, the retailer might be lucky enough to make $75 on the sale. It's no wonder they practically shove the extended warranty down your throat. They make another $75 on the $99 warranty.

I believe that most of the firearms industry has done the same thing. Somewhere along the line, selling firearms became a game of chicken: how low will you go? Of course, retailers like K-Mart and Wal-Mart drove the prices down then abandoned the market. Now it's places like Sportsman's Warehouse and Gander Mtn. that are keeping prices low.

I could go on and on...
Link Posted: 4/19/2007 6:32:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TerribleTom:


I believe that most of the firearms industry has done the same thing. Somewhere along the line, selling firearms became a game of chicken: how low will you go? Of course, retailers like K-Mart and Wal-Mart drove the prices down then abandoned the market. Now it's places like Sportsman's Warehouse and Gander Mtn. that are keeping prices low.

I could go on and on...


My Gander Mountain wouldn't know a low price if it bit the gun manager in the ass. $1249 for a Bushy patrolmans carbine....
Link Posted: 4/19/2007 6:35:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Southrnshooter:

Originally Posted By TerribleTom:


I believe that most of the firearms industry has done the same thing. Somewhere along the line, selling firearms became a game of chicken: how low will you go? Of course, retailers like K-Mart and Wal-Mart drove the prices down then abandoned the market. Now it's places like Sportsman's Warehouse and Gander Mtn. that are keeping prices low.

I could go on and on...


My Gander Mountain wouldn't know a low price if it bit the gun manager in the ass. $1249 for a Bushy patrolmans carbine....

I was just thinking that he has never been to the local Gander Mtn. Even used guns are more than what I have seen in some gunshops.
Link Posted: 4/19/2007 12:35:42 AM EDT
It does a couple of things, it products the value of the manufactures products and it helps protect the little guys(like me) ability to make a profit. Some companies put MAP below the dealer cost which is a kick in the ass.
Link Posted: 4/19/2007 6:43:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Southrnshooter:

Originally Posted By TerribleTom:


I believe that most of the firearms industry has done the same thing. Somewhere along the line, selling firearms became a game of chicken: how low will you go? Of course, retailers like K-Mart and Wal-Mart drove the prices down then abandoned the market. Now it's places like Sportsman's Warehouse and Gander Mtn. that are keeping prices low.

I could go on and on...


My Gander Mountain wouldn't know a low price if it bit the gun manager in the ass. $1249 for a Bushy patrolmans carbine....


Just to be clear, I was talking strictly about Gander Mtn.'s firearm prices. Accessories are a whole 'nother subject... The profit margins on firearms have eroded to a point that they'll probably never be what they were in the 50s (or even the 70s, for that matter). I don't think that firearms were ever a 'buy for $100 sell for $200' business, but making 10-15% is no way to get rich...

I guess that the MAP quesion probably applied as much or more to accessories as it did to complete firearms, so maybe the Gander Mtn. reference wasn't the best.
Link Posted: 4/19/2007 7:40:31 PM EDT
maps are good for all

if a dealer sells below map ,than another than another...soon the product is devalued an no store will carry it.

if no store will carry it you can't buy it and people are out of work

(I'm not in this Biz)
Link Posted: 4/19/2007 7:43:38 PM EDT
Both are illegal, last I heard...
Link Posted: 4/19/2007 7:50:51 PM EDT
price fixing is illegal, M.A.P is'nt
Link Posted: 4/19/2007 8:09:48 PM EDT
Price fixing is a form of collusion, but there are other laws which can be broken as well. The SCOTUS just heard a case on MAP, I believe. I need to check my notes from Marketing again. Maybe I'm wrong. I asked my professor about SFs MAP policy and he was suprised that that was going on. He said it was illegal.
Link Posted: 4/19/2007 8:59:54 PM EDT
UMRP isn't price fixing.

The mfr sets the MRP. The retailer can sell below MRP, but if they're 'caught' then they lose their dealership. If it were truly illegal, it wouldn't be so common.

Price fixing is when competing businesses get together and agree not to undercut each other.

MAP is not price fixing at all. I sell lots of stuff below MAP--I just don't advertise it explicitly. 'Prices too low to print!' works well.
Link Posted: 4/19/2007 9:39:37 PM EDT
It is a joke complete and utter bullshit mainly because of the spotty enforcement
not to mention it is against the basic basis of capitalism

this is not 1980 anymore the internet has changed business forever
these fucking manufacturers need to figure that out



the company i work for is med sized store front , website and runs 1000s of auctions on the various sites

if we advertised MAP on the website we would sell nothing

why? because there are 200 people on eBay and froggle that sell for way under MAP

I am more than able to compete with them on price however if i advertise that price our dealership gets pulled

why because we are a established business with phone numbers and a real brick and mortar store so we are easy to find and track down

So we are limited to being price on request which wastes a shit load of my time on the phone and email

and most people just skip price on request dealers and go straight to the guy advertise low prices

i have turned people in in the past but it has done no good because they are guys running their yahoo store out of their basement and are too much trouble to track down and even if the company does blackball them they just set back up with a new name

Kinda hard for us to do that since we have spent a lot of time and money in promoting a name and giving customer service


The number of high end optics my company sells online is virtually zero because of this practice
Link Posted: 4/19/2007 9:50:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TerribleTom:

Originally Posted By Southrnshooter:

Originally Posted By TerribleTom:


I believe that most of the firearms industry has done the same thing. Somewhere along the line, selling firearms became a game of chicken: how low will you go? Of course, retailers like K-Mart and Wal-Mart drove the prices down then abandoned the market. Now it's places like Sportsman's Warehouse and Gander Mtn. that are keeping prices low.

I could go on and on...


My Gander Mountain wouldn't know a low price if it bit the gun manager in the ass. $1249 for a Bushy patrolmans carbine....


Just to be clear, I was talking strictly about Gander Mtn.'s firearm prices. Accessories are a whole 'nother subject... The profit margins on firearms have eroded to a point that they'll probably never be what they were in the 50s (or even the 70s, for that matter). I don't think that firearms were ever a 'buy for $100 sell for $200' business, but making 10-15% is no way to get rich...

I guess that the MAP quesion probably applied as much or more to accessories as it did to complete firearms, so maybe the Gander Mtn. reference wasn't the best.



You were right about sportsmans warehouse though.

Bushy carbines for 849, kimber custom II for 649, and so on.

Plus they have no tax sales every once in a while.
Link Posted: 4/19/2007 9:53:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TerribleTom:
I work in the retail furniture/appliance/home electronics business.

We deal with MAP and UMRP all the time.

MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) doesn't prohibit me from selling for less, just for advertising a price lower than MAP. As Kyoshi stated, there are some instances where MAP is below my cost (some plasma TVs, for example).

UMRP (Unilateral Minimum Retail Price) is less common, but still used. Tempurpedic mattresses are sold at UMRP. You'll pay the same price no matter where you buy. Until not too long ago, high-end Maytag laundry was the same way. There are others.

Both systems are designed to help retailers maintain profit margins. Since I get paid by a retailer, I'm not one to object too loudly...

I used to work selling computers/networks. That industry has shot itself in the foot when it comes to margins on hardware. When you buy a $799 laptop at Staples/Best Buy/Wal-Mart, the retailer might be lucky enough to make $75 on the sale. It's no wonder they practically shove the extended warranty down your throat. They make another $75 on the $99 warranty.

I believe that most of the firearms industry has done the same thing. Somewhere along the line, selling firearms became a game of chicken: how low will you go? Of course, retailers like K-Mart and Wal-Mart drove the prices down then abandoned the market. Now it's places like Sportsman's Warehouse and Gander Mtn. that are keeping prices low.

I could go on and on...


In our world, the Internet and factory-direct sales thru hobby FFLs are responsible for the 'new' gun market...

Personally, I *LIKE IT THAT WAY*, as I can get an AR for $600 or so, build it myself, and not have to pay $1200 for 'Colt' because that's what billybob's-gun-store sells...
Top Top