They better come arrest my ass too...  I owned a 14 foot reticulated python and his monthly meal was a full size rabbit... when I couldn't get a rabbit, the neighborhood cats worked just fine..  and yes... we fed them alive, trimming their claws first...  The rabbits used to scream like a baby...  we'd have feeding parties and some friends had to walk out the room from the baby sounding screams....



[url]//www.kentuckyconnect.com/heraldleader/news/110901/hstatedocs/09snake.htm[/url]

Published Friday, November 9, 2001, in the Herald-Leader

Allegation that man fed kitten to snake brings out activists
By Bill Estep
SOUTH-CENTRAL KENTUCKY BUREAU
SOMERSET -- Allegations that a pet-store owner fed a kitten to a python this summer have outraged a scrappy handful of Pulaski County animal lovers.

Before a hearing in the case yesterday, several well-dressed women gathered in the smoky hallway outside Pulaski District Court, condemning store owner Stephan A. Jones and passing out fliers to the wary crowd in sweatshirts and jeans waiting to answer speeding, drunken-driving and other charges.

``Pet or food. We know the difference,'' said the flier, which included a picture of a kitten named Truman and urged people to call Pulaski County Attorney Bill Thompson about the case.

A sheriff's deputy arrested Jones, 38, on Sept. 4 after a report that Jones allegedly fed a kitten to a 10-foot Burmese python at his Fish 'N Friends store just south of Somerset in late August while two other men watched. The kitten screamed in terror before the snake ate it, said former employee Annette Sundermeier, who left the job after the incident.

Jones, who lives in Ferguson, was charged with one misdemeanor count of second-degree cruelty to animals. Sundermeier said he had fed kittens to the snake at other times, however.

``I didn't know whether to cry or get sick'' over the case, said Mary McDaniel of Somerset.

McDaniel said 30 people, mostly ``little old ladies,'' have banded together -- under the name of McDaniel's cat, Millie McQuire -- to push for more attention to animal cruelty and jail time for Jones.



One woman went so far as to contact a supervisor at the state food-stamp office where Jones works, said his attorney, Kathryn G. Wood of Somerset.

``It's getting to the point of harassment,'' Wood said.

At yesterday's hearing of motions in the case, Wood asked District Judge Walter F. Maguire to include a copy of the ``Pet or food'' flier in the court record in support of a possible request to move the trial out of the county.

The citation in the case says Jones admitted feeding the kitten to the snake, but he is fighting the charge.

In a statement issued to the media, Wood said some actions considered improper or wrong by some people are not necessarily illegal. Under the law, she said, ``There is no distinction between using a cat or using a mouse, hamster or rat as prey.''

Wood said Jones has been cast in false light. He has cared for sick animals and kept animals from going to the shelter, and he and his employees have taken ``great pride in their goal of maintaining a happy, healthy and clean pet store,'' she said.

Jones sold the snake after the controversy came up...

But Christine Jackson, 77, who came to yesterday's hearing, said Jones should be barred from selling any pets.

``I can't imagine someone doing something like that,'' Jackson said, with tears in her eyes.

Hell, I'd PAY to see that!!!

Hey, snakes gotta eat too.

If this guy gets busted for this, what do we do with all the asian cat eaters out there?

Every animal has a purpose. Why don't these old ladies think about all the mice whos lives were saved by feeding this cat to a snake.

You ever tanned cat? [rolleyes] [;)]

CAT-the other white meat!

Realist, what are you? Some kind of sick Jeff Dahmer type? People who are cruel to harmless animals for no reason usually have some type of mental problems. Why don't you keep your sick fetishes to yourself.

Well cats get to live because their cute?  Screw that, a life is a life wether is be a mouse, a hampster or a cat.  We can't play favorites because one animal is cuter than another.  There are people who keep mice and rats as pets too.  Look, killing a cat for fun is one thing but then so is killing a mouse.  

I had a Tegu that I fed babie mice to and boy did they squeek, then as the Tegu grew he ate mice, then guinny pigs.  I didn't get enjoyment out of killing the animals but I did enjoy watching the Tegu eat, its nature and its awesome to behold.

Every carnivore eats meat from other animals.
Does it make it somehow "nicer" if it comes in a can, and died on some factory processing line?
I kept pet constrictors for years, and fed, mice, rats, and bunnies also.
I killed the rodents first, or bought the bunnies already dead and frozen, and just thawed them out.
Little difference, anyway, as usually the strike force of the snake hitting the prey broke their neck, and the strangulation was complete within 2 minutes. I just didn't want my snakes to become accustomed to striking at moving objects.
Constrictors are actually very humane killers compared to say, colebrates, who swallow their prey live.The constrictors always kill it first, at least.
My problem with "Realist", is that he is murdering his neighbor's pets.
Someone's beloved pet is missing after his work, and this is cruel.
Some animals are kept for food, others for pets, if anyone ever hurt one of my pets deliberately, they would have a huge price to pay, maybe even in blood.

Once again I see the bar has been lowered at ar15.com

Paper

I am all for having nature take her course, but feeding a friggin "domesticated" snake with a kitten is wrong.  Feline are not vermin, as pointed out earlier.  If the snake was in the wild and it caught a wild cat, that is one thing, but feeding a friggin snake a cat/kitten that has been domesticated is not cool, nor is it ethically right.  The snake did not catch the kitten, it was hand fed.

Would you throw a German Shepard into a piranha (sp) pond just so the fish could eat?  I doubt it.

Animal cruelty is simply lame.  Whether it be possum, snake, cat, bird, dog, or mouse, it makes no difference: animal cruelty is lame.  Same goes for drivers trying to hit animals on the road, too.

That guy should get some sort of punishment, what I dont know, but what he did was wrong.  

JRB

Realist> Fuck you.

Cats are just large tapeworms with fur. They've been responsible for eliminating indiginous species of birds and reptiles in many places around the globe.

More snakes, less cats.

Perhaps he should've shot it in the head with a Colibri before dropping it in with the snake. See? No suffering.

D.

One more thing for all you cat lovers out there.

Love you itty bitty kitty?

1. Put a collar and a license on it.

2. Keep it out of your neighbors yard, trash, car etc... Just because you like a house that smells like cat piss doesn't mean we like the scent.

3. Spay or neuther them, so they cannot further litter up the world with their offspring.

4. Keep it indoors. (see #2)

5. Be a good, responsible cat owner, and hopefully your pet lives a long, healthy life. Treat it like a disposable item and it will become one.

When was the last time you heard of a pet snake getting in your car and pissing all over the place?

D.

Azex,
You are being insensitive.
If it was your little child's beloved pet that was hurt or maimed, you would be outraged.
Dog, cat, ferret, bird, snake........it matters not. There are always going to be people that hate or fear an animal you may have chosen as a pet. This doesn't give them the right to hurt your animal.
Mess with my animals, you mess with me.
And I am *not* a tree hugger, but I will defend my animals against assholes that may want to satisfy their own sick need to hurt pets.

Gloftoe,
Thats it exactly. This guy is stealing and inhumanely torturing his neighbor's pets!
The "claw trimming" part, I can only shudder to think about, as I am sure he is nipping off the end toe joints, not just trimming their toe nails.
He is torturing trusting pets.
He is *not* using animals bred to be food.....
He is whacking what may be some child's closest friend. And then enjoying the "baby sounding screams". This is sick stuff, what's next, a feral toddler?
He should be reported to the authorities before he expands his horizons. What's next? A real baby?

In all fairness, I don't see his dogs roaming around the neighborhood.  I don't think the issue here is one of simply disliking cats.  It's the people who get cats and treat them like strays.  They live outside, they roam around the neighborhood, they do whatever they feel like, and the owners don't care.  I've had one of these cats walk into my house when the door was open.  I just scared it off, but I also grow tired of cat shit all over my yard when I have never owned a cat.  The cat that just walked in one day was one of about a dozen that a neighbor had.  When the neighbor moved, guess what happened to the cats?  They stayed in the neighborhood.  Derek's never going to win an award for sensitivity, but the list of points he brought up are valid.



I agree with you.  Woe betide anyone who messes with my dogs.  However, they're kept in the house or in a fenced yard.  They have chips and tags so they can be promptly returned if they ever escape.  They are not allowed to roam freely.  If someone comes onto your property and messes with your dogs, you're welcome to do anything you want to that person, with my blessing.  But you don't seem like the kind of person who would let her pets have free reign over the neighborhood and expect everyone around to put up with what those pets do to others property.  I'm not supporting the guy feeding roaming cats to his snake, but I do think that situation has at least two humans directly at fault for that.

Kittens aren't the natural prey of a python. This is nothing more than macho cruelty, and I've seen this kind of act-out-in-front-of-the-crowd behavior before. The only point in doing this was to display an, "I'm tougher than you are because I can take it," attitude.

It's been said on this board before: if you don't like something, then stay away from it. Thus, if you don't like cats, then stay away from them. If they are bugging you around your house, etc., then call the pound and have them taken away. Maybe someone else who does like them can adopt it.

And spare the 'starving snake' plattitudes. This snake wasn't going to starve. This guy decided to have some fun at the expense of others. As I said - 'acting out', borderline behavior. I worked on psych floor for 6.5 years and saw this kind of, "...watch me do [i]this[/i]!" B.S. more times than I care to remember. Of course, once they tried to pull it on me and I pinned their butts to the floor and restrained them, there wasn't any 'attitude' left. Typical, macho bully B.S.

Idiots like this are going to create such an uproar that snake ownership will be declared illegal. Then, will it have been worth it, macho boy?

Flame away.[pyro][heavy]

My pets have never been allowed to run at large, no matter what species they are.
But, I have had some sick bastards toss evil stuff over my 11' back fence in an attempt to poison my Rotties. I think all people that try to hurt innocent pets should be keel hauled.
Cats can escape from houses, against their owners best intents, this doesn't make them fair game for sickos.

You are cool dude, yea you are one macho guy.  

Do you beat your woman and kids, "whether they need it or not?"  Did you pick this hobby up after you were kicked out of the eighth grade? You are one sick f-cker.

A kitten isn't a python's natural prey? OK, let's examine this for a minute. If a hungry python came across a kitten in the wild, would it eat the kitten? Yes, therefore a kitten is a python's natural prey.

As far as cats killing off entire populations of songbirds and rodents, well, that's what cats and songbirds are for. Regardless of how the cat got there, its sole purpose in nature is to keep songbird and rodent populations under control. Rodents and songbirds, on the other hand, exist for the sole purpose of being eaten by cats, owls, etc. If the cat or owl population increases - through whatever reason, high birth rates or introduction by man - then the prey population will decrease until there's not enough prey to feed the predator population. Then the prdators starve or move, until the prey population increases in size and can support a larger predator population. It's nature's way, and it's that simple.


I both agree and disagree with Derek. I personally think it's wrong to kill a pet just because you don't know whose it is - my opinion is that if you know something isn't yours, you leave it alone. However, I also feel that by letting your pets run loose, you're accepting the fact that they may be killed by cars, other animals (wild or domestic), or irate homeowners who don't like shit all over the place, garbage bags ripped open, or footprints on their cars (or threats to their family's safety, in the case of dogs.)

That is truly f-cked up Socratic logic.  I do not think domestic cats are part of a pythons natural habitat.  

[b][/b]

So by your logic then I guess I would consider YOU this SHARKS NATURAL PREY right?

[img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/010/xN/b4/SO/oE36148.jpg[/img]

Based on the article, I think the man should be let free. WTF is the problem with the ladies? Its only food. Animal cruelty? Hell no. If he didn't feed the snake, then I'd say that's animal cruelty. I always see pet stores feeding their big snakes rabbits. A cat makes no difference.
With realist's neighborhood cat thing, I have no comment.

The python isn't native to N. America, and [i]household[/i] felines aren't indigenous to S. America, either. Thus neither would come into contact w/ the other in the wild. If they [i]did[/i], then the cat wouldn't be declawed or trimmed. There would be more of a fight, and the python might end up wearing scars.



So what? One of his employees doesn't seem think much of him:



This borderline complex is textbook: deriving a [pathetic] sense of power through the manipulation or evokation of others. This punk's act comprises nothing more than a phony power trip. He got off over the kitten being killed and seeing employees/others shudder. Let me guess: he had no idea it would be misinterpreted, right? Bull$h!t. Don't be disingenuous by suggesting otherwise. This wasn't some natural occurrence. It was set up in a controlled environment. The fact that he did it in sight of others demonstrates his desire for public display - another classic borderline trait.



Maybe. But the principle matters. This kind of irreverant behavior only leads to more laws/restrictions, causing more grief for the rest. What if he'd shot the kitten instead? Just another form of game? Kitten season, anyone? Grow up.

I've confronted enough wanna-be arrogant snot-noses & bullies to know that they all fall the same way - A$$ 1st. That ba$tard is no different.

Flame away[pyro][heavy]
Blaster out.

i agree.  

sick bastards.

What he said!

Ditto.

Feeding cats to snakes is just cruel, there are many other ways to feed snakes. If this happened in the wild, totally different.

A cat is a mouse is a rabbit is a dog. Humans are exempt only because we top the food chain.

WTF is the difference?  Pure white feeder mice or rabbits are far more domesticated than most housecats, period.  The real arguement here is what is cute and cuddly vs. other animals most people could give a shit about.  This is the hypocracy that runs rampant in the animal rights community, and the reason so many tree huggers look like morons.  Save the spotted owl! Save the cute little kittys!  Oh, there are some types of rats that are endangered?  OH, screw them, they're pest species... aren't they?

As far as what a snakes natural prey is... anything that'll fit in its mouth, inluding dogs, cats, alligators, people and in one case of a giant anaconda, a horse.  QCMGR, watch fangs on the discovery channel sometime.

I do not endorse what realist was saying about picking up neighborhood cats, but what if he just got them from the pound? It's ok if Humans euthanize and incinerate them... but we cannot allow them to be food?  This makes no sense at all. I feed my python live feeder mice 3 at a time, and I do feel bad knowing that I've condemned them to death, however I also know that my snake must eat.  It just seems that some of you would be happier if I'd just buy the already killed frozen mice, as if that is somehow more humane. Duh.

Maybe the shop owner was out of rabbits (which only rabid hippies would object to) so he tossed in a kitten from a litter he'd bred in his shop, what is the difference?  It was not a pet, and is no different from any other animal in the store.

Quoted:


Can't remember when I have read something that made me this furious.  It is for people such as this I own firearms.[IMG]http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s/contrib/dvv/po.gif[/IMG]



I am very sorry, but the line forms BEHIND me.  If there is anything left, you can finish off the larger pieces.[IMG]http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s/otn/angry/zx11pissed.gif[/IMG]

Edited to add:

I would love to see some of the above dropped into the tiger's cage at zoo and watch the fun.  Let them experience the point of view of the kitten and rabbits...  Now, that I would pay big bucks to watch![IMG]http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s/contrib/aahmed/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

You are a Dick

Oh, yeah, I'd pay to see this.  I would pay top dollar to see your de-weaponized naked fat ass in a lock steel cage with a very hungry 300 lb. 18 ft. constrictor and hear you squeal like a baby.  I believe that all creatures of God have spirits and I'd pay to see that spirit squeezed out of you!  

The irreverence is due to the context of the act. Specifically, doing it in an environment where one knows it would evoke a controversy. The snake's view isn't at issue. It's a predator. I don't expect it to behave otherwise. The human pet shop owner knows/ought to know that [i]his[/i] action would not be perceived abstractly. It's [i]his[/i] action I find fault with, not the python's. It's well established that, in this country, cats are viewed as pets. He can always try moving someplace where his views about them are accepted. The 3rd world comes to mind.



"Grow up" was in reference to notions, on the part of some, that such acts are 'fun'. Not necessarily aimed at you , SGB. Besides, I'm 35 and don't want to grow any older. [:)]



Actually, I'm quite the meat eater myself. Eat what you want. Take small bites and chew thoroughly. Then swallow. Repeat until full.

The guy should not have fed the kitten to the Python during business hours. THAT, if anything, was the insensitive part.

As for declawing the kitten, hey, it's a business, no one would pay several hundred dollars for a scarred up Python. I sure wouldn't.

Simple economics, he probably has too many friggin' useless kitties around, which no one wants, and the snake needs to eat. Just business. Don't get caught up in the emotionalism of it.

As for hurting other peoples' pets. That's disturbing behavior. However, if it's in my yard, destroying my property, and lacks a collar, it's a "stray" be default, and gets treated as such.

Brings to mind an incident that happened early this summer. The lady who lives across the street, has horses and dogs (quite a few) and one of her Rotties got out and was roaming the neighborhood. We didn't know her well at the time, so I didn't know where the dog belonged.

Anyway, I'm working away in my shop and I turn around and there's this huge Rottie, swaying back and forth in an odd way and growling like she's ready to attack. She was about 15 feet in my shop as the roll-up doors are open during the summer for most of the day. Well, she takes a couple steps towards me, still growling and getting pissed. I drew one of my Glock 21s and aimed right at her head. I knew this was one of my neighbor's dogs, had to be, and I would've felt very bad for zapping her, but better a neighbor's ire than a mauling from a 100 lb plus dog.

My wife was calling the Sheriff's dept on the phone and they were making excuses why they couldn't respond to the call. My wife started yelling "my husband is going to shoot this dog in the fvcking head if you don't get out here!"

S.O. operator says: "not our problem, call Animal Control."

(as an aside, Animal Control in Coconino Co. AZ, is staffed by the laziest bunch of non-working Navajos you've ever met. They won't even get out of the truck when it's sprinkling out. That's a whole other story tho, and VERY OUTRAGEOUS ONE TOO!)

After about 10 minutes of stand-off, which felt like and hour, the Rottie turned and wandered down the street. Found out later that she treed some kids on their way home from school!

I often wonder how bad I would've felt had she attacked those kids, when I had had a chance to stop her.

The funniest part of the story! The owner of the dog is an Animal Control Officer for the CITY of Flagstaff! HA!

Isn't it Ironic, dontcha think?

D. www.azexarms.com

shit, Gloftoe, that was funny

Feeding one animal to another animal, is not the same as if they were in the wild.

Hey if you want to feed a live cat to a snake, then leave the claws on the cat, and let the snake work for his meal.

A full size tom cat, will put the hurt on medium sized constrictor.

I have read that people who enjoy watching helpless animals being being killed like this, are sexually immature, they do this to satisfy
a perverted sexual appetite.

Similiar to those who mistreat animals and sexually abuse children.

It is not a macho thing, it is a deviant thing.

Waterdog

Be wary of anyone who would psychoanalyze a person from a few brief posts on the internet.

Waterdog?