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Posted: 8/18/2004 4:52:14 PM EST
www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=552376


"All I was doing was acting in self defence. This man had entered my home and I felt he might harm me or my family. Of course I am sorry that he was hurt, but he had no right to be in my house. If I had to do the same thing again to protect my family then I would do it.

"I thought he was going to kill me or rape my wife. Anyone in my position would have done the same thing. I understand why the police had to arrest me - but I have done anything wrong."

Mr Caeiro claimed he was woken by his 28-year-old wife's screams at 2am on Saturday when the burglar came into their bedroom.

He said the 6ft tall intruder had pulled away their 14-month-old daughter's cot from the side of their bed causing the child to fall on the floor and cry.

Mr Caeiro said: "This man was kneeling at the side of my bed and started touching the legs of my wife.

"My wife woke up screaming and then I woke up. The man then ran downstairs and went out through the kitchen door."

Mr Caeiro, who is 5ft 6ins, rang 999 to report the break-in and was told by police that because the intruder was no-longer believed to be in the house they would be there in 15 to 30 minutes.

He said: "I looked out into my yard and saw a shadow. I was frightened and I grabbed the bread knife from a rack because my first thought was that I had to stop my family being harmed. I opened the back door ... then this man attacked me with a metal bar.

"He hit me on the shoulder and I was knocked back into the kitchen. The door opened and the man tried to come inside.

"I stabbed him in the leg and then we ended up fighting and I stabbed him in the chest.

"We fought for about a minute outside ... then he managed to break away and run down the alley at the back of my house."

Mr Caeiro said he tried to call the police again, but got no reply. He then called a friend who alerted police officers who arrived three minutes later.



They're talking about charging this guy with assault -- Meaning he's exposed to 5 or so years of incarceration.

The bad guy gets charged only with BURGLARY and will have 1 - 2 years of exposure, in terms of incarceration.

This makes my fucking head hurt. Got damn goblin dumps this guy's 14month old kid on the floor, touches the wife, then attempts to REENTER the residence and they're going to give the homeowner anything other than a MEDAL?!?!

ARRRRRRRR!



Link Posted: 8/18/2004 4:56:49 PM EST
Witnessing a civilization self destruct. That's what this is.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 4:59:27 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 5:04:59 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 5:43:05 PM EST
This type of shit will happen more and more in America. That's why the police will NOT be involved if someone breaks into my house.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 5:49:23 PM EST
Self Defense is ILLEGAL in Britian.

Of course he has to be charged to deter other folks.

CRC
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 5:52:52 PM EST
Sad...
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 5:53:16 PM EST
Here's to kicking them out when we did!
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 5:54:38 PM EST
Anyone remember Tony Martin?

Sad case.

CRC
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 5:54:46 PM EST
Break a peoples' spirit and you can do anything to them.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 5:59:12 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 5:59:20 PM EST
Modern liberalism is the suicide urge of failing cultures.

Goodbye, Britain.

Link Posted: 8/18/2004 6:00:05 PM EST
That's why I live in Texas where I am a CITIZEN, not a subject.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 6:00:27 PM EST
Everyone that has posted so far is right on. If I was a woodchuck
guarding my hole against predators I'd have more rights to do so
in this world than a human being has to guard his home. F-ing crazy

GM
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 9:52:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 9:53:23 AM EST by ipsilateral_7]
1289.25

A. The Legislature hereby recognizes that the citizens of the State of Oklahoma have a right to expect absolute safety within their own homes.

B. Any occupant of a dwelling is justified in using any degree of physical force, including but not limited to deadly force, against another person who has made an unlawful entry into that dwelling, and when the occupant has a reasonable belief that such other person might use any physical force, no matter how slight, against any occupant of the dwelling.

C. Any occupant of a dwelling using physical force, including but not limited to deadly force, pursuant to the provisions of subsection B of this section, shall have an affirmative defense in any criminal prosecution for an offense arising from the reasonable use of such force and shall be immune from any civil liability for injuries or death resulting from the reasonable use of such force.

D. The provisions of this section and the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Sections 1 through 25 of this act, shall not be construed to require any person using a pistol pursuant to the provisions of this section to be licensed in any manner.

God Bless Oklahoma

Link Posted: 8/19/2004 9:55:20 AM EST
Is that LAW? Oklahoma, O.K.!
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 9:56:29 AM EST
If the guy would have come into my house he'd have been met with a healthy dose of 00 buck from the business end of my 12 gauge. Thank God I live in the USA.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:06:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
Man oh man, if I was a career criminal, I sure know where I'd be living!

The pickins' are easy and you get gov't protection. I wonder if there's a health plan w/that.




There is. Haven't you heard of Socialized Medicine? The Government will fix him up, and the taxpayers, including the guy whose house he broke into, will pay for it.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:11:32 AM EST
The Brits should teach that block a lesson and gang rape his wife
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:15:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 10:25:57 AM EST by vito113]
What can I say… this country is fucked up good…

At least I have to option of 'abandoning ship' if it gets too bad unlike most of the population…

Basically, yes, we have no right of self defence as you would understand it in Britain. You are obliged to run away when possible and only use 'proportionate force' to defend yourself. Mr Caeiro could well be charged because he followed the intruder out of the house, that's a no-no under our crazy laws. The burglar is in a serious but stable condition in hospital. He will be able to claim compendsation for his injuries… no this is NOT A JOKE! I used to have 'Barbed Wire across the top of the fence at the end of my garden, I was advised to take it down by the Police as I could be sued if someone was injured climbing over the fence!

If I was in this mans situation and I grabbed my unloaded .357 marlin to scare him off I would be in a world of trouble, even though the rifle was empty.

Now they are looking at bringing in a mandatory 5 year prison sentence for posession of a knife in public.

"The intruder was arrested near by on suspicion of burglary. Police also arrested Mr Caeiro on suspicion of assault, and later released him on bail pending further inquiries.

The police will investigate the case and can decide not to charge Mr Caeiro. Alternatively they can send a file of the evidence to the Crown Prosecution Service which will decide whether there is a case to answer and whether it would be in the public interest to prosecute.

Mr Caeiro said he was making arrangements to move to a new home in Great Yarmouth because he fears reprisal attacks.

The incident is certain to rekindle debate about how far someone can go to defend their own home, which went to the heart of the case of Tony Martin. Mr Martin, of Emneth Hungate, near Wisbech, served a three-year jail sentence for killing 16-year-old Fred Barras and wounding Brendan Fearon after they broke into his home at Bleak House farmhouse."


ANdy
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:20:52 AM EST
It's stuff like this that made me send a $10 donation to the British National Party a couple of years ago (it was all I could afford at the time)
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:28:46 AM EST
Damn and here I was thinking the PRK was F'ed up.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:36:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:
Anyone remember Tony Martin?

Sad case.

CRC



iirc, one (i know one was killed) of tony martin's assailants tried to sue for being injured and not being able to continue with his career, which, by the way, was being a criminal!!!
mp
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:44:07 AM EST
If Skerry and the liberals get their way we'll be right behind the UK in this sort of shit.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:48:04 AM EST
This is sad for our friends like Andy but how long until it's like that here? We already have several British-states and a few more on their way. There was a post from a lawyer in SC that said in that state it's your DUTY to run when you are attacked! WTF? Sound familiar?

Get the hell out of there Andy and do it fast!
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:55:12 AM EST
1 more reason for owning a big freaking dog. My dog takes the hit in service of the family - at worst he gets put to sleep.

Also another reason to live in America is the ability to demand a jury trial - 1 person who thinks clearly about the ramifications of not being able to defend your family and the jury hangs.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:56:07 AM EST
Here is my favorate quote on England:

"The British attitude is to treat society like a game preserve where a
certain percentage of the 'antelope' are expected to be eaten by the
"lions".
Christopher Morton

Link Posted: 8/19/2004 11:05:55 AM EST
Damn that really sucks. There's truly no justice for subjects...
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 11:06:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 11:11:05 AM EST by equin0x]
Andy's right, it's not as bad as some of the posters above make out, but it's bad.

to be honest, I thought this guy had already been _convicted_ for attacking the burglar, it may have been a very similar case, homeowner grabbed a breadknife (not the best fighting weapon), and managed to kill the burglar who had a crowbar.

He's doing time for manslaughter I believe.

I heard the 5 year mandatory possession for a knife thing. Total crock of shit. You're allowed to keep the knife if you have a "documentable" work reason for carrying it. "I need it to cut my apples up, now f*** off"

It's because a 15 year old stabbed a 14 year old in a schyool and killed him, selling a knife to somebody < 16, ILLEGAL. Possession of a flickknife, ILLEGAL, knife on school grounds, ILLEGAL Stabbing somebody with a knife, ILLEGAL, murder, ILLEGAL.

Adding another crime to the statute books seems rather pointless to me, but there you go.

Tony Martin was different; unlicensed shotgun, shot the intruder in the back as he was leaving, now I know that's legal in texas, but most parts of the states you'd be in the shit for the unlicensed gun, right?

That and Tony Martin frankly strikes me as somewhat Psychotic anyway. If he was smart and/or sane he would have arranged that shooting so he could have gotten away with it.



I'll second that! I explained to a BBC reporter during an interview (at a gun show) that one of the justifications of firearm ownership was homeland defense. I said, "well just look at how effective we were beating you Brits back accross the pond."



Good for you mate Pity the English caught us Welsh in an offside trap a long time ago (Owain Gylndwr for those keeping score at home), otherwise we might have done the same thing.



It's stuff like this that made me send a $10 donation to the British National Party a couple of years ago (it was all I could afford at the time)



Mate, you really dont want to be doing that, it's similar to those well-meaning eedjits in Boston or NY putting money on the bucket on St Patricks day when the bucket comes round, in the end you're supporting terrorism. And you know what your CinC says about that.



iirc, one (i know one was killed) of tony martin's assailants tried to sue for being injured and not being able to continue with his career, which, by the way, was being a criminal!!!



Yep, and I'm pretty sure it got thrown out of court, twice, which is nice. Also, he was looking for compensation for the "sexual disfunction" caused by the injury/stress of the injury. Good, I'm glad that little shit wont be able to breed, one less for the rest of us to put up with in the future.

Andy, where you planning on going then mate? I really ought to look back into heading over to the states where people seem frankly a lot saner (at least out of the big cities, anyway).

/PHil
Edited for cacky typing.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 11:14:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 11:16:11 AM EST by the]


Originally Posted By equin0x:
I know that's legal in texas, but most parts of the states you'd be in the shit for the unlicensed gun, right?




Nope. Most places require no registration for rifles/shotguns.

You just need to pass the NICS background check upon purchase.



Link Posted: 8/19/2004 11:22:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By vito113:
At least I have to option of 'abandoning ship' if it gets too bad unlike most of the population…



What do you mean 'IF' - its not only 'too bad' its MUCH worse than that - its beyond bad to evil.

You Sir are always welcome on this side of the pond. I'd suggest leaving ASAP.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 11:22:32 AM EST
Actually, yeah sorry I mis-thought before typing (quite common that).

Wasn't there a guy who shot a burglar in NYC before his license came through for his handgun?

What happened to him, hope he got off...

/Phil
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 11:31:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 11:33:39 AM EST by vito113]

Originally Posted By equin0x:

Andy, where you planning on going then mate? I really ought to look back into heading over to the states where people seem frankly a lot saner (at least out of the big cities, anyway).

/PHil



Evening Phil,

The knife thing worries me though, I always carry one, always seemed a sensible precaution… mine's a 'camping' knife. which is legal as it's 3(ish) inches and folds. If Herr Blunkett tightens up the rules for carrying one I could be in the doodoo.

Yep, Fearons case got throw after the Sun filmed him running up stairs… top!

The case with the breadknife you refer to is a different one.

The Tony Martin case? Well as one Police Officer put it to me when we were discussing that case, "Tony Martin made two mistakes, he didn't reload, and he called us"…

Where to go? Well US would be the best option, plenty of relatives and stuff, but as I have assorted metalwork in my legs and much more is going to needed so the Medical Insurance bills put an end to that one. So I suppose it's probably back to Ireland if it gets too bad, and a good bit of news is that the Supreme court has overturned the Handgun Ban in the Republic! Woohoo!

ANdy
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 11:32:35 AM EST
To Phil & Andy...GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE!!!

You guys are welcome to crash at my house
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 11:36:19 AM EST
Evening, isn't it time for tea yet?

3" is it? shite, I thought it was 3.5, hence my current tool. Oh well I'm buggered then.

Still, my preferred carry weapon would be my Cold Steel KAtana, I'm better with that anyway



Fearons case got throw after the Sun filmed him running up stairs… top!



Ah, there are sometimes when you just have to love the sun (most times you turn to page 3 for another example).

Ireland no longer has a handgun ban? That's surprising, I'd have thought they'd have been more anally retentive than us. Hmm, good tax breaks for code monkeys there as I remember, perhaps it's worth an investigation.

Sadly I have no American relatives, I do have some in Canadia though, it's almost the same thing...

Anyone for tiffin?

/PHil

Link Posted: 8/19/2004 11:46:04 AM EST
Yes, this is a sad situation that is hapening over accross the pond . How does this happen you ask. Well, very easily actually. The subjects of Great Britain have given away all thier rights as human beings and put supreme trust in the government that says "we will protect you."


I remember Tony Martin and what the state did to him. IMHO, and from what comes from deep down inside, this form of socialism is just one baby step away from communism. We, as a people must never let this happen here in the United States. But, alas, it is happening slowly and surely. The sheeple want to be protected....then I say why not protect yourself....... for you , and only you can protect yourself from any sort of threat. The government, no matter where, or in what form, is not intrested in you or your welfare. The government only wants to protect itself. It is only intrested in itself, and therefore will only do what it wants to do, or deems fit to do in promotion of itself.

Here, in the U.S., we have what is known as LIBERTY, and we must never let it die. For liberty is the true form of freedom.


I'll stop now............
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 11:52:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By Brisk322:
Is that LAW? Oklahoma, O.K.!




Yup, Oklahoma Firearms act of 1971, reference section number 1289.25.

Dude, get out of GB and join some like minded people in the great U S of A.


and may god save the queen (from herself)
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 11:55:36 AM EST
Hi Phil,

If it's 3.5 I'm ok still… mines 3.25". I also have a 6" Finnish hunting knife as well, eveil little thing.

Yep, test case was brought before the Supreme Court and the guy got a licence for a .22 target psitol… judgement said all application for firearms must be assesed on an individual basis in future… so no more blanket ban!

Your In IT? Ireland is very big on IT, that's why they now have the second highest per capita income in Europe! Matches the US now, my Uncle made me laugh last time I was over there , "I remember when you were the rich relations visiting from England, now your the poor relations"

Weapons……



These live in the kitchen, the smaller one is the wife's and yes she has used it in anger to 'detain' two little f**kers who chucked a brick through our living room window one Christmas Eve for a laugh. They weren't laughing when she finished with them, and no the Police did not charge her…

ANdy
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 12:02:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By cnorton:
Damn and here I was thinking the PRK was F'ed up.



You are kidding, right? NJ, NY, IL and Washington DC are all more fucked up than the PRK, but people like to rip on CA more because they are jealous. At least here you can justify living with crazy gun laws because we have:

The hottest girls
Beaches
Flat desert lands for Off Roading
Snowboarding/skiing
Mountains for hiking
Higher paying jobs/more opportunity (for the educated)
and
Best weather in the US

The only thing you can no longer do is own a semi-auto military style firearm or full-auto. But if you revolve your life around those two things, well, need a say more...

I still hate it here though.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 12:24:43 PM EST
1000 years of serfdom is a rather hard habit to break.
Andy and Phil, you guys are more than welcome here
in the states.
I do think you'd love it here.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 12:35:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 12:36:25 PM EST by ASUsax]

Originally Posted By Jeeper21:


You are kidding, right? NJ, NY, IL and Washington DC are all more fucked up than the PRK, but people like to rip on CA more because they are jealous. At least here you can justify living with crazy gun laws because we have:

The hottest girls
Beaches
Flat desert lands for Off Roading
Snowboarding/skiing
Mountains for hiking
Higher paying jobs/more opportunity (for the educated)
and
Best weather in the US

The only thing you can no longer do is own a semi-auto military style firearm or full-auto. But if you revolve your life around those two things, well, need a say more...

I still hate it here though.



Jeeper, you should move to AZ... We have everything that CA has, except the beaches. But that'll change once 'The Big One' (TM) hits...

Edited to add: Oh, and well-meaning Gents from the UK are welcome, too. Just no Dumocrats.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 12:46:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 12:51:42 PM EST by 82ndAbn]
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 12:50:49 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 2:07:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By equin0x:
Tony Martin was different; unlicensed shotgun, shot the intruder in the back as he was leaving, now I know that's legal in texas, but most parts of the states you'd be in the shit for the unlicensed gun, right?



I don't think any states here license shotguns, and most states don't license any kind of guns.

Funny thing, even the most anti-gun US states still have reasonable self-defense laws.

However, shooting someone in the back gets a little dubious. If you shoot them in the back as they're running away from your house, you're probably going to get in some kind of trouble. But if they're walking away from your bedroom towards your kid's bedroom, then you're probably good to blast away.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 2:10:01 PM EST
S.S.S.

Thats whatchya gotta do anymore, its ridiculous that the good guy is punished more then the criminal!!

Course, in this guys case it would be Stab instead of Shoot, but the outcome is the same. A healthy rose garden....
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 4:20:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 4:22:06 PM EST by Jeeper21]

Originally Posted By ASUsax:
Jeeper, you should move to AZ... We have everything that CA has, except the beaches. But that'll change once 'The Big One' (TM) hits...

Edited to add: Oh, and well-meaning Gents from the UK are welcome, too. Just no Dumocrats.



Surprise! I already got a place down there. Well, my parents actually, but I'm always welcome and have my own room there.

I've only visited once for 3 days (beginning week of August) and man the heat was insane! Never felt anything like that before, but since I am in shape it didnt cause me any discomfort as long as I kept the glasses on. Hot air blowing on my eyeballs, ouch, drys them out quick.

The house is about 10 minutes away from the River (forgot the name of it, if it has a name?), but still far enough from all the dumbass Californians that haunt it every summer. The river does look like alot of fun though, I need to buy some jet skis if I'm gonna live down there. OH, and the gunshop, man it was like walking into a military armory. Oh joy.

Coming home to California made me hate it here even more! Traffic is just so unbearable to the stark contrast of traffic in AZ. And the only jackasses on the road there had CA plates, go figure! I still love the ocean and spearfishing. I would miss that alot if I did move. College is alot more expensive in AZ though, which is why I plan to finish here before considering a move.
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