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Posted: 9/23/2004 8:37:05 AM EST
By Ignacio Ibarra ARIZONA DAILY STAR

A second border-militia leader was arrested on weapons charges by the FBI this week, and one arrested last week will remain in federal custody because he's considered a threat to public safety.

Ranch Rescue founder Torre John Foote, 47, also known as Jack Foote, was arrested by the FBI in Sierra Vista on Monday afternoon on a charge of illegal possession of a weapon, stemming from a 1996 misdemeanor conviction for domestic violence in Mineral County, Mont.

He is scheduled for a detention hearing in federal court this morning.

On Wednesday, a federal judge in Tucson ordered that Casey James Nethercott, leader of Arizona Guard, remain in federal custody to ensure the safety of the community.

In making her decision, Magistrate Jaqueline Marshall rejected arguments from Nethercott's attorney, Assistant Public Defender Jason M. Hannan, that federal agents, not Nethercott, instigated an Aug. 31 confrontation at Nethercott's ranch near Douglas that led to his Sept. 15 arrest.

Hannan also argued that the prosecution's use of Nethercott's extensive criminal history was improper because the cases had no relevance to the current allegations.

Nethercott's criminal history includes:

A conviction on weapons charges earlier this year in Texas, which is on appeal.

Convictions in 1996 and 1997 for assault and false imprisonment.

The FBI's case agent Bryan Witt said he'd watched on a remote Border Patrol camera as Nethercott handled and fired a weapon at the Ranch Rescue-Arizona Guard headquarters on his ranch just hours before he was arrested Sept. 15.

Nethercott was arrested at about 11 p.m. as he and a companion returned to his van in the Safeway parking lot in Douglas, said Witt, of the FBI's Sierra Vista office.

Nethercott's companion, Kalen Riddle, 22, who Witt said moved his hands toward his waist as arresting agents approached, was shot twice during the arrest. He remains in critical condition at Tucson's University Medical Center.

After the arrest, agents found two loaded handguns in the passenger compartment of Nethercott's van, one of them possibly the same .38 caliber handgun he'd been observed with earlier in the day, Witt testified.

A search of Nethercott's ranch the next day yielded 15 .308-caliber assault rifles, several handguns, several thousand rounds of ammunition, smoke grenades, flares, and M-80-type explosives similar to large, powerful firecrackers, Witt said.

Nethercott's arrest grew out of an Aug. 31 incident in which U.S. Border Patrol agents attempted to stop Nethercott's Dodge Caravan on suspicion of smuggling. Despite Border Patrol vehicles pursuing him with lights flashing, Nethercott ignored the agents and drove for more than a mile to his property and through the gate, before exiting the vehicle to confront the pursuing agents, Witt said.

In the confrontation that followed, armed Border Patrol agents took cover behind their vehicles after Riddle unslung a rifle from over his shoulder and then, on Nethercott's order, briefly resisted the agents' demands that he put the weapon down, Witt said.

Witt said agents watching the ranch through night-vision equipment reported seeing several people on the grounds as Nethercott shouted orders into a radio or cell phone for them to hold their positions.

In the case of Ranch Rescue founder Foote, the Cochise County Sheriff's Department had investigated the weapons-possession allegation earlier this year and in March forwarded its investigative report to the Cochise County Attorney's Office, where it remains under review, said department spokeswoman Carol Capas.

FBI Phoenix spokeswoman Susan Herskovits said Foote was arrested on a federal warrant with the assistance of the Sierra Vista Police Department.

Nethercott's Arizona Guard was originally part of Foote's Ranch Rescue but split off after a rift developed.

Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:41:36 AM EST
There are two important news items in this article. First, the FBI is finally admitting that Kalen Riddle was unarmed when the FBI shot him two times last week. Riddle was guilty of moving his hands near his waist, when he was shot while unarmed.

"Nethercott's companion, Kalen Riddle, 22, who Witt said moved his hands toward his waist as arresting agents approached, was shot twice during the arrest. He remains in critical condition at Tucson's University Medical Center. After the arrest, agents found two loaded handguns in the passenger compartment of Nethercott's van..."

Sounds like the FBI can pretty much shoot anybody down like a dog, considering that a person's hands are basically near his waist when at rest. Just take the FBI's word for it that they noticed "movement."

Reminds me of the former Eagle Scout shot in the face at a mistaken traffic stop in Maryland two years ago; they used the same "suspicious movent" arguement to justify blowing his face off point blank, even though he was only trying to comply with an order to get out of the car.

The other news is the arrest of Jack Foote. The FBI dug back and found a 1996 misdemeanor, and used that to put long range surveillance on him to catch him holding a gun. And on that basis, he was arrested.

Meanwhile, another ten thousand criminal invaders walked right past the FBI, laughing out loud.

Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:47:11 AM EST
Not sure what is really going on, but using BP to surveil the people trying to do the BP's job for them doesn't make sense. Obviously these guys opened a BIG can of worms by speaking out against the .gov and its border security failures.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:48:36 AM EST
the law is the law and another lawbreaker is off the streets, nevermind why
did all the agents get home safe?

Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:51:00 AM EST
Ok, I'm in the dark here.
What is Ranch Rescue, and whats up with this guy?
What's the part about "several people on his ranch to hold position" about?
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:51:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By Travis_McGee:
There are two important news items in this article. First, the FBI is finally admitting that Kalen Riddle was unarmed when the FBI shot him two times last week. Riddle was guilty of moving his hands near his waist, when he was shot while unarmed.

"Nethercott's companion, Kalen Riddle, 22, who Witt said moved his hands toward his waist as arresting agents approached, was shot twice during the arrest. He remains in critical condition at Tucson's University Medical Center. After the arrest, agents found two loaded handguns in the passenger compartment of Nethercott's van..."

Sounds like the FBI can pretty much shoot anybody down like a dog, considering that a person's hands are basically near his waist when at rest. Just take the FBI's word for it that they noticed "movement."

Reminds me of the former Eagle Scout shot in the face at a mistaken traffic stop in Maryland two years ago; they used the same "suspicious movent" arguement to justify blowing his face off point blank, even though he was only trying to comply with an order to get out of the car.

The other news is the arrest of Jack Foote. The FBI dug back and found a 1996 misdemeanor, and used that to put long range surveillance on him to catch him holding a gun. And on that basis, he was arrested.

Meanwhile, another ten thousand criminal invaders walked right past the FBI, laughing out loud.




Interesting point. When's EFAD II due out?
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:52:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By Travis_McGee:
There are two important news items in this article. First, the FBI is finally admitting that Kalen Riddle was unarmed when the FBI shot him two times last week. Riddle was guilty of moving his hands near his waist, when he was shot while unarmed.

"Nethercott's companion, Kalen Riddle, 22, who Witt said moved his hands toward his waist as arresting agents approached, was shot twice during the arrest. He remains in critical condition at Tucson's University Medical Center. After the arrest, agents found two loaded handguns in the passenger compartment of Nethercott's van..."

Sounds like the FBI can pretty much shoot anybody down like a dog, considering that a person's hands are basically near his waist when at rest. Just take the FBI's word for it that they noticed "movement."

Reminds me of the former Eagle Scout shot in the face at a mistaken traffic stop in Maryland two years ago; they used the same "suspicious movent" arguement to justify blowing his face off point blank, even though he was only trying to comply with an order to get out of the car.

The other news is the arrest of Jack Foote. The FBI dug back and found a 1996 misdemeanor, and used that to put long range surveillance on him to catch him holding a gun. And on that basis, he was arrested.

Meanwhile, another ten thousand criminal invaders walked right past the FBI, laughing out loud.




You forget this though

In the confrontation that followed, armed Border Patrol agents took cover behind their vehicles after Riddle unslung a rifle from over his shoulder and then, on Nethercott's order, briefly resisted the agents' demands that he put the weapon down, Witt said.

So he was armed, but than put the rifle down, and than was shot after that sometime. hmmmm..............
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:57:02 AM EST
Wow...Border Patrol doing surveillance on men who are trying to do the job the Border Patrol should be doing in the first place? Talk about fucked up priorities. Don't the RR activities take place on private land?
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:00:22 AM EST
yeah whatever. the most important law they broke was pissing off the cops. it don't matter what else you do, just don't piss off the cops.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:01:41 AM EST
WoW

The FBI's case agent Bryan Witt said he'd watched on a remote Border Patrol camera as Nethercott handled and fired a weapon at the Ranch Rescue-Arizona Guard headquarters on his ranch just hours before he was arrested Sept. 15.

MAYBE JUST FUCKING MAYBE.....

The camera is pointing the WRONG WAY!!!
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:03:14 AM EST
Code of Conduct
General Guidelines
...

9.) Speaking out against Republicans and especially George W. Bush is forbidden.

10.) Questioning the actions of anyone wearing a badge and uniform will not be tolerated.

Please reread #10 before posting this trash again.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:07:15 AM EST
Come on everyone, you know this was inevitible with all the coverage they were getting with ranch rescue.

I'd kind of like to hear the goings on in the "Convictions in 1996 and 1997 for assault and false imprisonment. "

With that type of convictions, He sure as hell wouldn't legally be able to buy those guns, would he?

Chris


Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:08:03 AM EST
Well, this certainly explains why I haven't heard from Jack in a while...

All of Ranch Rescue's operations are conducted on private property at the request of the land owner. Members that have participated on missions along the border area have reported excellent relations with the "working class" BP, but thos with aspirations of a "NON-Southwest" job tend to be real ASSHATs about it.

What people, including folks here on the board need to realize is, we are in the middle of a shooting war with Mexico. It doesn't get much coverage, and gets even less support.

Those who, like the 18 year old that volunteers for the Marines, put themselves at great jeapordy to protect our country. However, it is about the most UN-P.C. thing you can do, next to dragging a minority behind your pick up.

It's basically a lose-lose proposition. But if not Ranch Rescue and other groups, then who? and if not now, then when?
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:11:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 11:11:03 AM EST by AZ-K9]
Both of these guys, Nethercott and Riddle, are first class retards....


Edited for spullling.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:16:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By nationwide:
What people, including folks here on the board need to realize is, we are in the middle of a shooting war with Mexico. It doesn't get much coverage, and gets even less support.



Yep, and beyond the border newspapers, you hear nothing from it in the national or international media. Accounts of Mexican troops coming into the US and shooting, accounts of border land owners being threatened by drug smugglers and illegals, and even some of them having their homes burned to the ground for telling the people to stay off their land.

And what does BP and the FBI do? They start breaking up the citizens who are trying to do the job they refuse to do. Now, I don't exactly love Ranch Rescue, but someone has to do the job of securing our borders.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:16:44 AM EST
tagged
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:18:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 9:24:58 AM EST by PAEBR332]

Originally Posted By virginia22:
Come on everyone, you know this was inevitible with all the coverage they were getting with ranch rescue.

I'd kind of like to hear the goings on in the "Convictions in 1996 and 1997 for assault and false imprisonment. "

With that type of convictions, He sure as hell wouldn't legally be able to buy those guns, would he?

Chris





Nethercott has a felony assault with a firearm conviction from 1996. He is suppose to stand trial on a unlawful detention, assault, and felon in posession of a gun charges in Texas, which he fled the state to avoid. This charge alleges he detained at gunpoint and pistol whipped an illegal he caught. Nice guy.

Nethercott cannot legal purchase or possess a firearm.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:21:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 9:21:58 AM EST by AZ_Hi_Desert]

Originally Posted By photoman:

Originally Posted By Travis_McGee:
There are two important news items in this article. First, the FBI is finally admitting that Kalen Riddle was unarmed when the FBI shot him two times last week. Riddle was guilty of moving his hands near his waist, when he was shot while unarmed.

"Nethercott's companion, Kalen Riddle, 22, who Witt said moved his hands toward his waist as arresting agents approached, was shot twice during the arrest. He remains in critical condition at Tucson's University Medical Center. After the arrest, agents found two loaded handguns in the passenger compartment of Nethercott's van..."

Sounds like the FBI can pretty much shoot anybody down like a dog, considering that a person's hands are basically near his waist when at rest. Just take the FBI's word for it that they noticed "movement."

Reminds me of the former Eagle Scout shot in the face at a mistaken traffic stop in Maryland two years ago; they used the same "suspicious movent" arguement to justify blowing his face off point blank, even though he was only trying to comply with an order to get out of the car.

The other news is the arrest of Jack Foote. The FBI dug back and found a 1996 misdemeanor, and used that to put long range surveillance on him to catch him holding a gun. And on that basis, he was arrested.

Meanwhile, another ten thousand criminal invaders walked right past the FBI, laughing out loud.




You forget this though

In the confrontation that followed, armed Border Patrol agents took cover behind their vehicles after Riddle unslung a rifle from over his shoulder and then, on Nethercott's order, briefly resisted the agents' demands that he put the weapon down, Witt said.

So he was armed, but than put the rifle down, and than was shot after that sometime. hmmmm..............



The confrontation during which Riddle was armed happened at Nethercott's ranch. He and Riddle were taken down three days later at the Safeway in Douglas. Riddle wasn't carrying when the Bureau agents shot him, though there were weapons in the van. There will be a review of the shooting, and I figure it will be ruled a good shoot. There was every indication that Riddle would be armed and hostile, as he had been every time he had tangled with law enforcement in the past.

Nethercott and Riddle were asshats that were trying for this result. They got it. I shall shed no tears over this one.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:21:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By Travis_McGee:
Sounds like the FBI can pretty much shoot anybody down like a dog, considering that a person's hands are basically near his waist when at rest. Just take the FBI's word for it that they noticed "movement."




Yep.

No consequences. Try to sue, and if you win, uncle sam picks up the tab.

Fucking thugs.

Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:22:51 AM EST
I didn't think so, thanks for the info.

Chris


Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By virginia22:
Come on everyone, you know this was inevitible with all the coverage they were getting with ranch rescue.

I'd kind of like to hear the goings on in the "Convictions in 1996 and 1997 for assault and false imprisonment. "

With that type of convictions, He sure as hell wouldn't legally be able to buy those guns, would he?

Chris





Nethercott has a felonly assault with a firearm conviction from 1996. He is suppose to stand trial on a unlawful detention, assault, and felon in posession of a gun charges in Texas, which he fled the state to avoid. This charge alleges he detained at gunpoint and pistol whipped an illegal he caught. Nice guy.

Nethercott cannot legal purchase or possess a firearm.

Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:32:24 AM EST
Remember that guy that was shot in the face from about 2 feet away with an M4 because he complied with the FBI's order to un buckle his seat belt and exit the vehicle? Nevermind the fact that the FBI had stopped the wrong vehicle. I wonder if he won his law suit?

Anyways the point that im trying to get across is that Federal agents need to be held responsible for their actions. With their increased authority there needs to be a proportional increase in responsibility. No more of this well it occured during the line of duty so they cant be held responsible bullshit. Must be nice to have a little magic wand you wave to make your bad decisions, mistakes, and poor planning disappear.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:35:04 AM EST
I find all this talk of holding Federal Agents to account for bad shoots rather humerous.

Ruby Ridge, anyone? Anyone???


That FBI sniper killed Randy Weaver's wife in cold blood and never did a day of jail time, and if he hasn't retired yet, is probably still a FED. Justice? Not in this country my friends... not very often anyways...
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:40:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By Travis_McGee:
Meanwhile, another ten thousand criminal invaders walked right past the FBI, laughing out loud.



Ugh. You certainly DO know how to make a point mon!

Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:43:37 AM EST
Back in the prohibition era, states used to arrest, try and convict federal agents for using excessive force or otherwise acting unlawfully. Those days are long gone.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:53:00 AM EST
The only thing missing is the obligatory shooting of the dog.

wganz

Link Posted: 9/23/2004 10:00:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By wganz:
The only thing missing is the obligatory shooting of the dog.

wganz




Here ya go...

Dog killed by JBT




My best buddy, Jeff. He was killed in Arizona while on patrol with Ranch Rescue volunteers Tuesday 24 February 2004, by a US Border Patrol agent who ran him over with her vehicle.

Jeff was the dog I wished I had when I was a kid. He was adventurous, funny, playful, smart, loving, and above all completely fearless. He had a fierceness that belied his small size, so his stature was more than some people I have known. Jeff was our mascot at Camp Thunderbird in Arizona. Jeff was a soldier, and he was all heart. He gave his life helping to protect us.

I will miss you, my friend. I will always love you. I pray that I get to see you when I finally get to Heaven someday. Keep the area secure until I report there for duty, buddy.

--Jack Foote

SPECIAL REQUEST: The US Border Patrol's Douglas, AZ station phone number is 520-805-XXXX. Call them up and demand to know why the Patrol Agent who killed Jeff refuses even to apologize. Ask them why she refuses to pay for the vet bill. Ask them if this Patrol Agent represents the best that the US Border Patrol has to offer.


Link Posted: 9/23/2004 10:03:12 AM EST
Here's a clue for the feds, protect the country from illegals. Bunch of JBTs probably spent more on this survellance than most border crossings get in a month.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 10:07:47 AM EST
No, they are busy protecting America from itself.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 10:11:21 AM EST
I support Ranch Rescue. I also support our Gov. It's a shame they cannot work together. At least Ranch Rescue is not required by order to stand on a 4 foot X on the border and not move as unknowns cross into America
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 10:14:17 AM EST
Whilst these two in AZ may have been looking for trouble in some way the undertones of the story stand out to me.

1. Do not do a better job than the government at anything for they will break up your operation
2. The BP cannot control, monitor, and secure our borders. Civlilians aiding them are not necessary because there is not a problem
3. Doing the above will result in the JBT squad descending on you like flies on crap. If you did something in your past you will be found out and taken care of.
4. Mexicans or other illegals do not invade our country, burn hoses, smuggle drugs, shoot at people, and do whatever they want. They are the victims our our great wealth.

Most of that is sarcasm; hope ya'll get it. I would think that this Foote guy knew he was going to get in trouble with his prior convictions, but damn someone has to start fighting the border issue. Unfortunately as stated while the BP and FBI were staking out this guy's place about 10,000 illegals crossed the border and disappeared into the night.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 10:15:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By azcopwannabee:
WoW

The FBI's case agent Bryan Witt said he'd watched on a remote Border Patrol camera as Nethercott handled and fired a weapon at the Ranch Rescue-Arizona Guard headquarters on his ranch just hours before he was arrested Sept. 15.

MAYBE JUST FUCKING MAYBE.....

The camera is pointing the WRONG WAY!!!



Maybe it would be nice if a stand-up kind of guy with no FELONY/MCDV HISTORY ran one of these groups...

What is the FBI supposed to do, ignore a federal felony because the guy in question runs some 'Civillian Border Patrol' group?
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 10:16:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 10:19:29 AM EST by virginia22]

Originally Posted By ar50troll:
I support Ranch Rescue. I also support our Gov. It's a shame they cannot work together. At least Ranch Rescue is not required by order to stand on a 4 foot X on the border and not move as unknowns cross into America



are you saying it's ok to have convicted felons to protect our borders?

Can a felon become a law enforcement,border patrol, government officer?

Curiouser and curiouser.....

Chris

Sorry: forgot the quote and changed one word.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 10:17:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Maybe it would be nice if a stand-up kind of guy with no FELONY/MCDV HISTORY ran one of these groups...

What is the FBI supposed to do, ignore a federal felony because the guy in question runs some 'Civillian Border Patrol' group?



Don't tempt me...
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 10:24:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
Both of these guys, Nethercott and Riddle are forst class retards....

+1

The Border issue is indeed critical, but these mofos should have picked up video cameras instead of guns, when they decide to stick their dicks in The Machine. What could they (or anybody HERE, for that matter) expect when pissing in the Border Patrol's / Feds' Rice Bowl.

There ought to be documentary teams, NOT Fire Teams, documenting the out of control horseshit going on with illegal immigration, THEN DISTRIBUTE THAT UNCENSORED UNSPUN VIDEO direct to the Media that are SUPPOSED to be reporting on the issue, DISTRIBUTE IT DIRECTLY TO THE PEOPLE a la the Swift Boat ads, and get some REAL political change in this country.
Instead, these fuckheads think they are 'gonna pick up a rifle and defend mah turf, no matter what The Machine says or does.'
Well guess what - you get what Randy Weaver the Supremacist got - You get what the Dividian Cult got - Stomped by The Machine.

'Ranch Rescue' needs someone with some goddamned political awareness, and some knowledge that extends beyond their property line. What they are doing is sorely needed, but they are going about it in completely the wrong way.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 10:25:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
What is the FBI supposed to do, ignore a federal felony because the guy in question runs some 'Civillian Border Patrol' group?



I see that, as usual, you approve of whatever the government does. How's the view from the ground? The question is, why was he targeted? They decided to put him in prison, and pulled an unknown number of agents off of patrolling the border, chasing bank robbers, tracking AQ, et c. to watch this guy until they found evidence to allow them to do it. So tell me, do you approve of this allocation of resources? Do you feel safer knowing that this guy is not rounding up illegal aliens on private property?
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 10:31:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By rayra:

The Border issue is indeed critical, but these mofos should have picked up video cameras instead of guns, when they decide to stick their dicks in The Machine. What could they (or anybody HERE, for that matter) expect when pissing in the Border Patrol's / Feds' Rice Bowl.

There ought to be documentary teams, NOT Fire Teams, documenting the out of control horseshit going on with illegal immigration, THEN DISTRIBUTE THAT UNCENSORED UNSPUN VIDEO direct to the Media that are SUPPOSED to be reporting on the issue, DISTRIBUTE IT DIRECTLY TO THE PEOPLE a la the Swift Boat ads, and get some REAL political change in this country.
Instead, these fuckheads think they are 'gonna pick up a rifle and defend mah turf, no matter what The Machine says or does.'
Well guess what - you get what Randy Weaver the Supremacist got - You get what the Dividian Cult got - Stomped by The Machine.

'Ranch Rescue' needs someone with some goddamned political awareness, and some knowledge that extends beyond their property line. What they are doing is sorely needed, but they are going about it in completely the wrong way.



I'm not gonna argue about the two dirtballs.

However, the reason Ranch Rescue volunteers carry firearms is for personal protection.

Ranch Rescue has utilized fire teams to engage drug smugglers while they were tresspassing on private property transporting large amount of drugs, which were subsequently seized and turned over the the local Sherrif's office.

They make great use of video surveillance. But it is only one tool in a quiver of many. The story that is not being told here, and I have to re-state, is that the local area BP guys LIKE having active civillians around. Any friendly with a weapon is a good thing in these circumstances.

But, I think you are being played into the partisan fear mongering, the whole US vs. THEM mentallity.

If it wasn't for private citizens picking up rifles to defend their life and liberty, we would have neither. Think about it.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 10:33:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 10:37:01 AM EST by AZ_Hi_Desert]

Originally Posted By rayra:

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
Both of these guys, Nethercott and Riddle are forst class retards....

+1

The Border issue is indeed critical, but these mofos should have picked up video cameras instead of guns, when they decide to stick their dicks in The Machine. What could they (or anybody HERE, for that matter) expect when pissing in the Border Patrol's / Feds' Rice Bowl.

There ought to be documentary teams, NOT Fire Teams, documenting the out of control horseshit going on with illegal immigration, THEN DISTRIBUTE THAT UNCENSORED UNSPUN VIDEO direct to the Media that are SUPPOSED to be reporting on the issue, DISTRIBUTE IT DIRECTLY TO THE PEOPLE a la the Swift Boat ads, and get some REAL political change in this country.
Instead, these fuckheads think they are 'gonna pick up a rifle and defend mah turf, no matter what The Machine says or does.'
Well guess what - you get what Randy Weaver the Supremacist got - You get what the Dividian Cult got - Stomped by The Machine.

'Ranch Rescue' needs someone with some goddamned political awareness, and some knowledge that extends beyond their property line. What they are doing is sorely needed, but they are going about it in completely the wrong way.



The video cameras are a good idea that the American Border Patrol uses, but the rifle is just as necessary, as there are FA rifle toteing drug smugglers crossing the border around here. Sometimes the Mexican Army itself provides covering fire for the dopers.

The border issue is a lose/lose proposition. Any group that organizes itself to fill in the gaps that the government leaves open will find itself a target of that government's wrath. Doing nothing is an invitation to disaster of epic proportion. What to is there to do?

ETA: Weaver was a White Separatist, not a Supremecist. Not that that helped him any.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 11:17:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By virginia22:
Come on everyone, you know this was inevitible with all the coverage they were getting with ranch rescue.

I'd kind of like to hear the goings on in the "Convictions in 1996 and 1997 for assault and false imprisonment. "

With that type of convictions, He sure as hell wouldn't legally be able to buy those guns, would he?

Chris





Nethercott has a felony assault with a firearm conviction from 1996. He is suppose to stand trial on a unlawful detention, assault, and felon in posession of a gun charges in Texas, which he fled the state to avoid. This charge alleges he detained at gunpoint and pistol whipped an illegal he caught. Nice guy.

Nethercott cannot legal purchase or possess a firearm.



Yes, and he was "detained" for this ALLEGED pistol whipping a few months ago, despite eyewitness accounts that he did no such thing. The Texas sheriff that imprisoned him is a slimy, crooked bastard. Nethercott may not be a 1st class nice guy, I admit he has a prior, but these fucks down there will dig up ANYTHING they can against RR.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 11:18:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 11:19:08 AM EST by AZ-K9]

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By rayra:

The Border issue is indeed critical, but these mofos should have picked up video cameras instead of guns, when they decide to stick their dicks in The Machine. What could they (or anybody HERE, for that matter) expect when pissing in the Border Patrol's / Feds' Rice Bowl.

There ought to be documentary teams, NOT Fire Teams, documenting the out of control horseshit going on with illegal immigration, THEN DISTRIBUTE THAT UNCENSORED UNSPUN VIDEO direct to the Media that are SUPPOSED to be reporting on the issue, DISTRIBUTE IT DIRECTLY TO THE PEOPLE a la the Swift Boat ads, and get some REAL political change in this country.
Instead, these fuckheads think they are 'gonna pick up a rifle and defend mah turf, no matter what The Machine says or does.'
Well guess what - you get what Randy Weaver the Supremacist got - You get what the Dividian Cult got - Stomped by The Machine.

'Ranch Rescue' needs someone with some goddamned political awareness, and some knowledge that extends beyond their property line. What they are doing is sorely needed, but they are going about it in completely the wrong way.



I'm not gonna argue about the two dirtballs.

However, the reason Ranch Rescue volunteers carry firearms is for personal protection.

Ranch Rescue has utilized fire teams to engage drug smugglers while they were tresspassing on private property transporting large amount of drugs, which were subsequently seized and turned over the the local Sherrif's office.

They make great use of video surveillance. But it is only one tool in a quiver of many. The story that is not being told here, and I have to re-state, is that the local area BP guys LIKE having active civillians around. Any friendly with a weapon is a good thing in these circumstances.

But, I think you are being played into the partisan fear mongering, the whole US vs. THEM mentallity.

If it wasn't for private citizens picking up rifles to defend their life and liberty, we would have neither. Think about it.


And they have dogs for protection too?

Ranch rescue is full of "militia" wannabe's who salivate at the thought of shooting a tonk.

These guys are fucking it up for everyone else. No one wants to join their fucked up organization becasue it's full of convicts and testosterone laden oxygen thieves.

Get normal people out there on the border and things may change.....but this is very complicated. The BP has sensors placed throughout the border, and they respond to trips like cops to a burglar alarm. The problem is, if you have "civilians" out there trekking around, it's gonna tie up the BP agents responding to that sensor activation done by those "civilians". You wind up spinning your wheels. It's not as simple as it looks.

Link Posted: 9/23/2004 11:27:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By rayra:

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
Both of these guys, Nethercott and Riddle are forst class retards....

+1

The Border issue is indeed critical, but these mofos should have picked up video cameras instead of guns, when they decide to stick their dicks in The Machine. What could they (or anybody HERE, for that matter) expect when pissing in the Border Patrol's / Feds' Rice Bowl.

There ought to be documentary teams, NOT Fire Teams, documenting the out of control horseshit going on with illegal immigration, THEN DISTRIBUTE THAT UNCENSORED UNSPUN VIDEO direct to the Media that are SUPPOSED to be reporting on the issue, DISTRIBUTE IT DIRECTLY TO THE PEOPLE a la the Swift Boat ads, and get some REAL political change in this country.
Instead, these fuckheads think they are 'gonna pick up a rifle and defend mah turf, no matter what The Machine says or does.'
Well guess what - you get what Randy Weaver the Supremacist got - You get what the Dividian Cult got - Stomped by The Machine.

'Ranch Rescue' needs someone with some goddamned political awareness, and some knowledge that extends beyond their property line. What they are doing is sorely needed, but they are going about it in completely the wrong way.



Uh, yeah. They tried that, and no one was interested. If your damn house was on the border, and you needed steel cages on the windows and doors to prevent your wife from being raped while you were at work, you'd be defending your turf, sure as hell. These guys have tried and tried, at least they are doing something, and it is on PRIVATE LAND.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 11:34:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By virginia22:
are you saying it's ok to have convicted felons to protect our borders?

Can a felon become a law enforcement,border patrol, government officer?

Curiouser and curiouser.....

Chris

Sorry: forgot the quote and changed one word.



My post mentiones nothing of advocating felons becoming LEO's(They couldn't anyways). When posters begin to interject this type of stuff into to others posts we get the pissing matches we see here often of late.
Not all RR personnel are Felons. You do not live in a state that shares a border with another country. I do. I would venture to say you have not spent time in McAllen or another border town. Literally I can sit in my car at a federal border crossing and watch the illegals come across the river in their undies with their clothing and God knows what else in a trash bag over their head. The border feds do nothing. And they can see them just like me. Often times people will honk and yell at them laughing as they get dressed on the America side of the border. Texas ranchers have been assualted more than once from illegals on their property. Nothing wrong with protecting your land from tresspassers. Our border agents are restricted to standing on a X for their shift. More force would lower illegal tresspass.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 11:38:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By rayra:

The Border issue is indeed critical, but these mofos should have picked up video cameras instead of guns, when they decide to stick their dicks in The Machine. What could they (or anybody HERE, for that matter) expect when pissing in the Border Patrol's / Feds' Rice Bowl.

There ought to be documentary teams, NOT Fire Teams, documenting the out of control horseshit going on with illegal immigration, THEN DISTRIBUTE THAT UNCENSORED UNSPUN VIDEO direct to the Media that are SUPPOSED to be reporting on the issue, DISTRIBUTE IT DIRECTLY TO THE PEOPLE a la the Swift Boat ads, and get some REAL political change in this country.
Instead, these fuckheads think they are 'gonna pick up a rifle and defend mah turf, no matter what The Machine says or does.'
Well guess what - you get what Randy Weaver the Supremacist got - You get what the Dividian Cult got - Stomped by The Machine.

'Ranch Rescue' needs someone with some goddamned political awareness, and some knowledge that extends beyond their property line. What they are doing is sorely needed, but they are going about it in completely the wrong way.



I'm not gonna argue about the two dirtballs.

However, the reason Ranch Rescue volunteers carry firearms is for personal protection.

Ranch Rescue has utilized fire teams to engage drug smugglers while they were tresspassing on private property transporting large amount of drugs, which were subsequently seized and turned over the the local Sherrif's office.

They make great use of video surveillance. But it is only one tool in a quiver of many. The story that is not being told here, and I have to re-state, is that the local area BP guys LIKE having active civillians around. Any friendly with a weapon is a good thing in these circumstances.

But, I think you are being played into the partisan fear mongering, the whole US vs. THEM mentallity.

If it wasn't for private citizens picking up rifles to defend their life and liberty, we would have neither. Think about it.



Straight up, there's truth there.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 11:45:00 AM EST
Can't a wall be built. That would provide jobs for some. They are building those walls in Iraq right now 16 feet tall. That would at least funnel them to certain spots were they dynamite and break through. Shit we gotta do something. I used to live in Biloxi, MS right on the coast. No Mexicans up until about 4 years ago. Now they are pretty common. They spread pretty fast. Their population has doubled in the USA in the last 15 years.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 11:48:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1SS_LAH:
Can't a wall be built. That would provide jobs for some. They are building those walls in Iraq right now 16 feet tall. That would at least funnel them to certain spots were they dynamite and break through. Shit we gotta do something. I used to live in Biloxi, MS right on the coast. No Mexicans up until about 4 years ago. Now they are pretty common. They spread pretty fast. Their population has doubled in the USA in the last 15 years.



As long as career politicians are around were screwed on a wall. If could vote layman into office it wuold be done. Even GW needs minority vote. Build a wall and you lose a huge voter demographic.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 11:50:51 AM EST
If this is on private land what is the problem?

Doesn't the BP have better things to do than to monitor American citizens?

Then again we don't want to offend the Mexican community before the election.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 3:48:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1SS_LAH:
Can't a wall be built.



Not even an option. From the Oval office on down, it has been decried... "We are an OPEN society!" No wall of any consequence will ever be built along the southern border of what you know today as the United States of America. You can put money on it.

They did build a wall down by San Diego, turned out to be more of a problem than it was worth.

Building a wall to protect a nation is kinda like deploying a firearm to defend your person.

At some point, you have to commit, or surrender.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 3:53:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:
If this is on private land what is the problem?

Doesn't the BP have better things to do than to monitor American citizens?

Then again we don't want to offend the Mexican community before the election.




The problem is bad press. Remember, the things that are going on in the world don't really matter. It's the public's perception of these events.

No administration wants egg on their face. And the current administration wants the same thing every first term administration has always wanted. A second term.

You can blame Bush. You can blame Clinton. You can blame Bush 41. You can't touch Regan with it though.

Just like the second amendment freedoms those on the board expouse to love, the only way to get stupid laws put to sleep is to change public perception. It's gonna take California legislating it's way back into Mexico to wake people up.

This country isn't gonna be destroyed on the battle field. It's gonna be nuked in court.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 4:03:32 PM EST
"My post mentiones nothing of advocating felons becoming LEO's(They couldn't anyways). When posters begin to interject this type of stuff into to others posts we get the pissing matches we see here often of late "

Wasn't any "pissing match" at all. just a question for you to make yourself more clear.

easy man, put your hackles back down. Sheesh.

Chris

Link Posted: 9/23/2004 4:13:36 PM EST
If they broke the law, then good riddens. The pure fact that they preach the law when it comes to immigrants, yet break the law when it comes to firearms just proves how much of a problem the 2 of them really were.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 4:15:51 PM EST
I see alot of talk in this thread about our border(s) not being properly secured by the BP.

Here's a thought: The same guys who are on here criticizing anyone that wears a badge, would be the ones who would scream the loudest when we did what it would really take to secure a border.


YMMV


The point still stands that these types of groups would be much better served if they could keep the convicted criminals out of their ranks.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 4:20:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By mcgrubbs:

The point still stands that these types of groups would be much better served if they could keep the convicted criminals out of their ranks.




This is a very valid point. The problem, however, is how does a private person or institution verify a person's criminal free past? It would take a fair amount of money to either hire an investigator or to actually go do public record searches. This may be reasonable, however, it could be cost prohibitive for a small group.

The problem is so bad, that these groups will accept anyone who is willing to show up. Downside is you get the bad apples with the good.
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