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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/8/2004 11:30:11 AM EST
Anyone ever read any of Machiavelli's writings? Are they any good? I have heard he had good ideas about people being armed and was thinking about reading his stuff. But I haven't yet and wonder if anyone here has?
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:30:45 AM EST
Obviously The Prince is his seminal work.

Recommended.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:31:46 AM EST
you mean tupac?
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:31:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By jblachly:
Obviously The Prince is his seminal work.

Recommended.



+1
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:32:32 AM EST
Yes, they're quite hard to follow, though.

I'd say his writings were maybe twice as hard to comprehend as, say, the KJV of the Bible.

His philosophy was really pretty simple.......act as if you had no compassion, no emotion.

He was one cold-hearted dude.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:33:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sierra_Hombre:
you mean tupac?



Tupac was a big fan of his, but they weren't quite in the same league.

Tupac is dead, BTW.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:42:09 AM EST

Machiavelli based "The Prince" on events in the life of Cesare Borgia, who was the son of Pope Alexander VI and brother of Lucrezia Borgia... Machiavelli considered Cesare Borgia to be a most capable leader and the embodiment of what a prince should be and any ambitious "prince" should imitate Cesare Borgia...

It's a good read...

Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:43:04 AM EST
Don't think Machiavelli would be shocked by today's standards. It's about politics and survival in a controlled and oppressive environment.

It's about living for another day and the cold hard facts of living in this world.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:44:22 AM EST
Key principle, 'It is better to be feared than loved'.

Works great in politics.. hasn't worked so well around the house. YMMV.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:45:16 AM EST
The basic premise is "the end justifies the means" if I remember my high school lit correctly. A lot of the time, I have to agree with him. Now I have to go get a copy so I can read it.


Woody
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:47:50 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:56:55 AM EST
Stay away from his version of "The Art of War." Being a politician he knew little about war at all. "The Prince" is an excellent book.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 12:08:13 PM EST
I bought The Prince earlier this year, started it and got sidetracked. I plan to get back on it later in the year.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 12:14:45 PM EST
He is the one who spoke of radical changes in the government without the people realizing it. His proclamation was to offer some semblance to the current ways while conducting changes from within.

A master political tactician.

Link Posted: 9/8/2004 12:20:48 PM EST
The Prince Chapter 20


2. There never was a new prince who has disarmed his subjects; rather when he has found them disarmed he has always armed them, because, by arming them, those arms become yours, those men who were distrusted become faithful, and those who were faithful are kept so, and your subjects become your adherents. And whereas all subjects cannot be armed, yet when those whom you do arm are benefited, the others can be handled more freely, and this difference in their treatment, which they quite understand, makes the former your dependants, and the latter, considering it to be necessary that those who have the most danger and service should have the most reward, excuse you. But when you disarm them, you at once offend them by showing that you distrust them, either for cowardice or for want of loyalty, and either of these opinions breeds hatred against you. And because you cannot remain unarmed, it follows that you turn to mercenaries, which are of the character already shown; even if they should be good they would not be sufficient to defend you against powerful enemies and distrusted subjects. Therefore, as I have said, a new prince in a new principality has always distributed arms.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 12:23:39 PM EST
No friends only interests. It's still true today.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 12:27:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/8/2004 12:27:32 PM EST by Steve_T_M]
CH12

The Swiss are armed to the the teeth and do not have to take orders from anyone.


Ch 13

It is not to be expected that someone who is armed should cheerfully obey someone who is defenseless, or that someone who has no weapon should be safe when his employees are armed. For the armed man has contempt for the man without weapons; the defenseless man does not trust someone who can overpower him.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 9:21:54 PM EST
Big +1

S.O.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 9:25:09 PM EST
Read it, don't LIVE it.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 9:26:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
The Prince is the bible for any would be world conquerers. A bit difficult writing style but of great historical significance.

Tj




College profs love to have you read it and try to shoot down all of his principles.

My history prof last year, after trying to shoot down the ideas, put up all of the principles on the board and tried to match them up with Bush...

I was thinking in my head "Hell yeah! He aint takin no shit... bitch!"

I kept my mouth shut, and passed.

- BG
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 10:41:40 PM EST
An armed society is a polite society was one of M.'s axioms....
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:00:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Read it, then LIVE it.



There, I fixed it for ya
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:27:38 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:28:03 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 2:19:31 AM EST
Today's security contractors are not the same as the mercenary armies of Machiavelli's day.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:15:25 AM EST
I have only read the prince as of now. I would highly recomend this book.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:20:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
The Prince is the bible for any would be world conquerers. A bit difficult writing style but of great historical significance.

Tj




College profs love to have you read it and try to shoot down all of his principles.



My European History professor at UT said his life's goal was to make Machiavelli a respectable figure.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:25:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By cobra-ak:
An armed society is a polite society was one of M.'s axioms....



I thought that was Robert Heinlein



You are correct, it is a Heinlen quote from his book 'Beyond This Horizon.' The full quote is:

An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.

The GOA or JPFO printed up some shirts with that on them a few years back.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
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