I often read how almost all of you carry guns, and knives at all times.  This has gotten me to thinking.  If you're in a situation where lethal force is not justified, what are you to do in a "non-lethal" situation.  I know most of you testosterone jockeys will ramble on about how you could/would swiftly and easily whoop the assailants a$$ with your left arm, both legs, and your penis tied behind your back...

This, however, is not conducive to rational thought based upon reality.  Many of us will encounter non-lethal situations in life, and many of us are not the strongest men on earth.

I have taken 4.5 years of Tae Kwon Do, and have a black belt.  However, being as thorough as I can, I like to have multiple non-lethal self-defense options.  Thus, Mace/Pepper Spray.

I have had MANY situations where I had to defend myself with mace/pepper spray, and two occaisions when I had to run my a$$ off because I didn't have any with me (wearing penny loafers & a suit/tie is not conducive to TaeKwonDo fighting on icy MN winter sidewalks).

If for some reason I cannot defend myself with TaeKwonDo, or Lethal Force, I must find some alternative means.  I have used many different kinds of mace.

[img]http://www.streichers.com/Perm_Images/Product_Shots/ACF15B7.JPG[/img]
The "Mark IV" etc., pepper spray and other similar variants from the FIRST DEFENSE company simply suck a$$.  It's like taco salsa.  My main problem with that particular pepper spray is that they (Both Foam & Spray versions) freeze in the cold winters of MN.

[Not Pictured]
Then there's "Mace" brand OC/CS mace in small "clip/key" cannisters with a fragile plastic valve/safety/nozzle assembly [similar to the far right mace can from previous picture].  These are quite effective at stopping people, however, the plastic nozzle part has a tendency to leak, and cause the cannister to EXPLODE if it's in your pocket.  This has happened to me once.  My entire right leg was COATED in OC/CS, and it barely missed Mr Winky by an inch!!!
Pros: Reliable, Very effective, Reasonably priced
Cons: Fragile plastic Nozzle, enough to stop 1 or MAYBE 2 assailants max.

[side note]When cannisters say NOT to use soap when washing off skin, heed the advice.  I did not, and the soap opened my pores in my skin, allowing the OC/CS to soak DEEPER into my skin, and left me with a horrific burning sensation for over 36 hours.[/side note]

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FREEZE +P is quite simply THE BEST OC/CS mace on the market.  It literally will stop crazed men dead in their tracks making them scream like a little girl.  Doesn't freeze in sub-zero temps, and is what I almost ALWAYS have with me at all times.
Pros: Reliable, EXTREMELY effective, Resonably priced, Can stop up to 5 assailants (2 oz Can), UV dye that stays even after washing for criminal Identification.
Cons: No safety, rather large/bulky.
[side note]Freeze +P makes smaller pocket-size cans, but they are not capable of stopping multiple assailants, simply not enough OC/CS[/side note]

[img]http://www.streichers.com/Perm_Images/Product_Shots/ACF15A4.jpg[/img]
ASP Key Defender.  Fantastic OC spray.  If you're getting an OC only spray, this is THE one to get.  Incredibly effective, and its spray comes out in almost a "fog-like" spray.
Pros: Moderately Reliable (doesn't freeze easily), Good Safety, Good size, Effective.
Cons: Can freeze if moisture/dirt collects in its spray-hole, not as effective as OC/CS mix, fog-like spray has short effective range, expensive (comparably), only effective for 1-2 assailants, MAYBE 3 max.

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ASP Palm Defender.  A 4.5 inch version of the Key Defender.  I have no hands-on use of this in a defensive situation, but I'd imagine the shortened capacity will restrict its use to 1 MAYBE 2 individuals.

[b]My big questions are:
What do you do/carry for non-lethal self-defense?

What kind of mace/pepper spray do you carry?

What is your review (pros/cons) of it?[/b]

All of the above I have hands-on defensive experience in using (except the ASP Palm-Defender), and am looking to see what the rest of you carry for non-lethal defense options/sprays.

Another reason I ask is because of other threads such as this one:
[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=191576[/url]
regarding knife carry discreetly.

A knife is LETHAL force, and I've RARELY seen a thread regarding non-lethal force defensive options.  It makes me wonder whether any of you intend to either shoot/stab unarmed attackers?  I hope those of you who only carry lethal force weapons will realize the true impact on YOUR life if you use it.  You'll be crucified in the court rooms.  What say you?

I don't know why, but I get the feeling this is a commerical post.  

BTW I have used up 4 cans of First Defense in the line of duty and have yet to have one bad guy not succuum to the effects.  Also soap doesn't open up your pores the hot water does.

Sorry, not meant to come off as being commercial-like.  I don't know about in Oklahoma, but up here in Minnesota I've had First Defense sprays freeze on me twice (in sub-ten deg F weather) and were useless when they were needed; That's 2 out of 3 times (bad percentage IMHO, and as a result won't trust it as far as an infant can throw it).  The one time it DID spray (the foam one) it did douse the guy, but he didn't succumb to it immediately, and before it took complete effect he still persued me (while I ran like hell the other way).

It's good for LE agencies, because it has good capacity, but its bulk requires a belt-pouch to carry.  This isn't something civilians can do while trying to remain discreet (like at work, offices, and places where any weapon is banned).

iNuh,
Spray does not work in cold weather as well.
In sub freezing cold it will take longer to activate.  Look up Capstun.  It is alcohol based rather than water and might not freeze so much.  We don't use it because it caught a guy on fire when another department used it once.
Hope this helps.

There are other problems with the OVER-EFFECTIVENESS of Freeze +P.  My brother's police department does NOT allow their officers to carry it because it's considered a lawsuit liability because of its potency.

According to several LEO friends, it has been known (in some cases) to permanently "Weld" disposable contact lenses to the human eye, and distorts the lense, making their vision permanently damaged.  The only (and very questionable) way to fix this is with laser surgery.

That, IMHO, is quite effective, and is the reason why I carry it.  However, I look kind of funny wearing a mace-pouch on my belt when going to work (at least in an office environment).

1shot! What's up! [:)]

Pepper spray is okay in NY as far as I know. I have some. You can guy it in gunstores. Mace isn't readily available and legal. There may be a permit that you can get for it. A cop I asked about it said he actually preferred pepper spray. Apparently there is some small chance that mace will cause some kind of health problem for the sprayee.