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Posted: 9/25/2001 11:37:26 AM EDT
[#1]
That may have been true about the M16 in the past. I think it will out shoot the AK, especially at longer ranges. If I had to choose I would carry the M16A2, with a 1 in 7 twist and heavier bullets than the 55 grain. Why do you think all the high power folks switched to the AR15? John
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Posted: 9/25/2001 11:40:50 AM EDT
[#2]
AK 74s will be as, if not more, common than the 47s.
Something tells me that, much like Stalingrad, the primary infantry weapons will be Sniper Rifles, Grenades, and Subguns. Remember the caves in the mountains are their strongpoints. |
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Posted: 9/25/2001 11:50:20 AM EDT
[#3]
The M-16 is quite reliable, and it is lighter and more accurate than the AK-47. Both the British SAS and the Israeli army prefer short versions of the M-16 to anything else.
The AK-47's 7.62x39mm cartridge will outpenetrait the M-16's 5.56x45mm cartridge in [i]soft tissue[/i]. The 5.56x45 does more damage than the 7.62x39 at short range, and it penetraits armour plate better. |
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Posted: 9/25/2001 11:50:59 AM EDT
[#4]
Gonna be a long range shooting war. M16.
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Posted: 9/25/2001 11:51:30 AM EDT
[#5]
In the M16 vs AK-47. Whatever the Marine has will be better. :) Personally I think the M16 would win out on top. I've seen M16s fire with GRAVEL in it. Also watched 2000 blanks go through an M16 with a little to no lubrication on the bolt carrier. It finally started to get sticky. AKs were designed to fire sandy, muddy, crushed. I think superior training will prevail.
Smalls LCpl of Marines |
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Posted: 9/25/2001 11:54:45 AM EDT
[#6]
M14. Nuff said.
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Posted: 9/25/2001 12:11:32 PM EDT
[#7]
It's not the rifle in the hands it's the hands the rifle is in.
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Posted: 9/25/2001 12:51:01 PM EDT
[#8]
This is really getting old... I guess I was part of the "AR vs AK" frenzy a while ago, in fact I own the domain name arvsak.com, maybe I'll put something up there sometime. But seriously, ARs are not "jammamatics". If you think you are going to go up against a Marine rifle squad and come away unscathed because their M16s jammed all I have to say is HAHAHAHAHA. In their current versions neither weapon has any defects that will prevent the user from doing his job. So, it comes down to who is better. The US will kick ass. Have you seen some of the footage of those towel heads fighting each other? They just hold their AKs up above their heads and shoot blindly.
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Posted: 9/25/2001 12:55:39 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: It's not the rifle in the hands it's the hands the rifle is in. Exactly. Think SEAL teams, each with a special weapon. This isn't going to be a conventional ground war folks. |
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Posted: 9/25/2001 2:10:32 PM EDT
[#10]
Well my friend is in the Marines, and he has stated many times that the M-16 does jam often.
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Posted: 9/25/2001 2:13:55 PM EDT
[#11]
well then your friend is a silly marine that does not clp his gun.
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Posted: 9/25/2001 2:20:12 PM EDT
[#12]
They are the two most prolific military and Police rifles on the planet. There is a reason for that. They both work real well. No system is perfect. Each has its strengths and weaknesses. In real battle conditions I wouldn't feel outclassed by either. The key difference will be in the training. The AK does have the edge in reliability. As to accuracy, even up ( combat not match ). In a fight it will come to nerve and training.
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Posted: 9/25/2001 2:24:19 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Well my friend is in the Marines, and he has stated many times that the M-16 does jam often. My dad was a SEAL in WW2 and he told me his M-16 NEVER jammed when they were storming the beaches of nepal. In fact he said he filled the lower and buttstock with nepalese beach sand to give it a better balance. |
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Posted: 9/25/2001 2:25:18 PM EDT
[#14]
wow, your dad must come from an alternate timeline:)
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Posted: 9/25/2001 2:28:45 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Quoted: Well my friend is in the Marines, and he has stated many times that the M-16 does jam often. My dad was a SEAL in WW2 and he told me his M-16 NEVER jammed when they were storming the beaches of nepal. In fact he said he filled the lower and buttstock with nepalese beach sand to give it a better balance. If your DAD had an M16 in WWII he had better send it on over to the Smithsonian because it would be the most valuable M16 ever.... |
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Posted: 9/25/2001 2:31:04 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Quoted: Well my friend is in the Marines, and he has stated many times that the M-16 does jam often. My dad was a SEAL in WW2 and he told me his M-16 NEVER jammed when they were storming the beaches of nepal. In fact he said he filled the lower and buttstock with nepalese beach sand to give it a better balance. RRRRROFLMAO!!!!!!!!! |
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Posted: 9/25/2001 2:34:31 PM EDT
[#17]
Hey I *am* erickm's dad and I toted my M16 right through Bataan on D-Day. We used to pour Normandy sand right down the barrel to give the enemy a little "shotgun effect" when firing full auto. Adds a whole new dimension to the term "grains" of the projectile. Damn M16 didn't jam even when we closed the action on a live gerbil. I finally lost my rifle when the flash from Hiroshima melted the stock and foreend.
Don't tell me otherwise you guys, I was THERE! [;)] |
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Posted: 9/25/2001 2:39:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Hey I *am* erickm's dad and I toted my M16 right through Bataan on D-Day. We used to pour Normandy sand right down the barrel to give the enemy a little "shotgun effect" when firing full auto. Adds a whole new dimension to the term "grains" of the projectile. Damn M16 didn't jam even when we closed the action on a live gerbil. I finally lost my rifle when the flash from Hiroshima melted the stock and foreend. Don't tell me otherwise you guys, I was THERE! [;)] Musta been your M16 that drove all those bad Germans back [shock] |
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Posted: 9/25/2001 2:47:46 PM EDT
[#19]
Whatever, you guys are full of sh*t. My sister's cousin's brother's dog was an explosives courier for the Nepalese Army during WWII and he never had a weapon-jam experience with the M-16 (that was the A.01 model I believe)
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Posted: 9/25/2001 2:47:52 PM EDT
[#20]
The more time this takes, the more I get the feeling we are going to let the Northern Alliance do the dirty work. With a little help and reequiping from their new friends of course.
Bin Laden is probably long gone. Might be sharing a palace swimming pool with Idi Amin Da Da in Saudi Arabia by now. |
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Posted: 9/25/2001 2:50:31 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Whatever, you guys are full of sh*t. My sister's cousin's brother's dog was an explosives courier for the Nepalese Army during WWII and he never had a weapon-jam experience with the M-16 (that was the A.01 model I believe) Oh yea? Well my old man was B29 pilot in WWII and Korea and he had an M16, said it was piece of SH*T [whacko] |
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Posted: 9/25/2001 2:57:19 PM EDT
[#22]
"ECS". Does that stand for "East Coast Surfer"?
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Posted: 9/25/2001 2:59:59 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: "ECS". Does that stand for "East Coast Surfer"? I wish it did but its just my initials.. I live up in No. Va. where all the knuckeheads dwell.... |
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Posted: 9/25/2001 3:02:01 PM EDT
[#24]
Neither. I'd take any, quality bolt rifle: Enfield, Swedish Mauser, Sprinfield. As far as autos: M14, M-I Garand, FAL.
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Posted: 9/25/2001 3:24:31 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: Well my friend is in the Marines, and he has stated many times that the M-16 does jam often. Humm, I'm a Marine and I don't recall M16A2's jamming all the time. If a rifle begins to have problem, take it to the armory and have it inspected/fixed. I love the M16 and would proudly carry it into battle. I never wished I had someone else's rifle design. The M16 has served our country well for 30 some years and there's no end in sight. If it were such a chunk-o-crap it would have been replaced long ago. I think the Israelis endorsement of it speaks volumes given these people have been in a constant state of war since the inception of their nation. If it's good enough for them it should be good enough for just about anyone... and 90% of their M16's are 20+ years old! Read what they have to say about it: [url]http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault.htm[/url] |
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Posted: 9/25/2001 3:49:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: Neither. I'd take any, quality bolt rifle: Enfield, Swedish Mauser, Sprinfield. As far as autos: M14, M-I Garand, FAL. As countries switch to the M-16 or equivelent from 7.62 rifles, they find that their soldiers' long range shooting scores improve. I think that it is clear that for the average shooter, the '16 is really the better 'long range' weapon. wgunn, Note that Israel has been fighting desert wars, and they did not feel the FN FAL was sufficiently reliable in the sand. Yet they love the '16 (or, rather, CAR-15s and M-4s). The more I learn, the more I prefer the '16 as a fighting weapon. And I started out as a "30 cal guy", with a low opinion of the '16. |
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