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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 12/13/2001 12:13:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2001 1:04:07 PM EDT by 1ar4me]
I want to know what "LAW" states that you can not have a M-16 Hammer in your AR-15 or any other piece or all pieces except sear??? I dont not want an opinion I want a LAW. As far as I know, NOBODY has ever been convicted because of a opinion. Somebody must have an answer?
Link Posted: 12/13/2001 1:11:23 PM EDT
Any one here?
Link Posted: 12/13/2001 1:12:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1ar4me: As far as I know, NOBODY has ever been convicted because of a opinion.
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It happens all the time. Welcome to the modern 'Living Constitution'.
Link Posted: 12/13/2001 1:14:00 PM EDT
If you call ATF, they will cite you an 18 U.S. code statute. I don't know it off the top of my head and am at home without all my books, etc.
Link Posted: 12/13/2001 1:16:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2001 1:18:14 PM EDT by ChrisS]
I had added this earlier, but I wanted to make sure on a few things. Also added some info. M. FIREARMS - NATIONAL FIREARMS ACT (NFA) (M1) The types of firearms that must be registered in the National Firearm Registration and Transfer Record are defined in the NFA and in 27 CFR Part 179. What are some examples? Some examples of the types of firearms that must be registered are: Machineguns; The frames or receivers of machineguns; Any combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting weapons into machineguns; [b]Any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for converting a weapon into a machinegun; Any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if the parts are in the possession or under the control of a person;[/b] Silencers and any part designed and intended for fabricating a silencer; Short-barreled rifles; Short-barreled shotguns; Destructive devices; and, "Any other weapons." Also check this out: "In order to avoid possible violations of the NFA, M16 hammers, triggers, disconnectors, selectors and bolt carriers must not be used in assembly of AR15-type semiautomatic rifles, unless the M16 parts have been modified to AR15 Model SP1 configuration. Any AR15-type rifles which have been assembled with M16 internal components should have those parts removed and replaced with AR15 Model SP1 type parts. These parts are available commercially or the M16 component may be modified to AR15 Model SP1 configuration. From here: [url]http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/ar_15_auto_sear_faq.txt[/url] You could also check the ATF's site
Link Posted: 12/13/2001 1:17:10 PM EDT
Anyhow, I am not sure there are those words specifically in any actual law. The [b]B[/b]ATF has the authority ([b]![/b]) to determine how a law is to be interpreted. They would at least consider possession of M16 parts to be intent to modify or construct a machine gun. Anyone else have info? Please direct all appeals to the Supreme Court.
Link Posted: 12/13/2001 1:25:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Torf: Anyhow, I am not sure there are those words specifically in any actual law. The [b]B[/b]ATF has the authority ([b]![/b]) to determine how a law is to be interpreted. They would at least consider possession of M16 parts to be intent to modify or construct a machine gun. Anyone else have info? Please direct all appeals to the Supreme Court.
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Yep, also reference ATF "Ruling" 81-4 and their subsequent re-interpretation in '86 (referenced in link I posted above). Also check the Firearms Owners Protection Act.
Link Posted: 12/13/2001 3:31:17 PM EDT
BATF has only the authority to "define" and is perceived as an opinion, to be determined by a Judge or magistrate if it relates and how it can be used in court. Again No laws! Only opinions from federal employees. We are all living in speculation and fear of obvious "opinions" When has any law abiding citizen been pulled over to have a parts count on his weapon???? Or to be have serial numbers run to determine pre/post ban....... ATF doesnt care what you do with your parts count or pre/post ban... They will care if you start commiting crimes and use it as an add on to a felony count. And since none of you are criminals, what the heck are you so concerned about such trivial rules and opinions?
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 1:51:48 PM EDT
Just suppose you just got back from the range late in the evening Holloween day and left your gear in the trunk....
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 2:27:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2001 2:48:33 PM EDT by William_Gunn]
If you want something other than an opinion, you might want to contact the BATF. Taking anyone's claims of having the "facts" on a bulletin board will only land you in federal prison. It also appears that you're wanting to know if the law is enforced. I don't know anyone who's been thrown in prison for converting post-bans into illegal pre-ban configurations, but that doesn't mean I should run out and do it because the odds are in my favor of not being caught. If you're not trolling and really want answers, contact the people who would ultimately arrest you, the BATF.
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 3:00:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2001 2:57:07 PM EDT by shaggy]
First off, BATF does get to interpret the laws and make technical determinations; for example what parts can constitute a machinegun, what is a sporting purpose, etc. Now I'm not going to get into a lesson on administrative law, but generally, unless there is absolutely no basis or logic whatsoever for the determination, the federal courts will go with the agency opinion. If you get caught and trying to beat BATF on a technical determination is your defense, you better stock up on cigarettes and vaseline. Currently it seems BATF's opinion is that mere possession of M16 fire control parts in conjunction with an AR15 meets the statutory definition of a machinegun under 26 USC 5845(b). Like it or not, there is a bit of logic there if you read the statute; they would almost certainly get a conviction. So is BATF checking guns for M16 parts? No, but there's enough examples of guys getting searched without breaking any laws. OneShot is the perfect example - not breaking any laws and minding his own business, but a neighbor called in the police because they saw a rifle in the back of his car. If he had any M16 fire control parts in there, he wouldn't be posting on AR15 for a while. Can you guarantee you'll never get pulled over for a traffic ticket? Get into a car accident with your gun in the car? At a random checkpoint on the road? Can you guarantee you'll never have a fire at your house? Or that a neighbor, ex-girlfriend/ex-wife, or random asshole will never call in an anonymous tip about you to the police? Can you guarantee with 100% certainty you'll never be the subject of a restraining order? Theres plenty of ways you can get caught, even if you're minding your own business and keeping quiet about it. And ultimately, if you do get nailed, you'll spend more on lawyers fees to try and keep your ass out of the cooler than you would have on several legal registered M16's.
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 3:03:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2001 3:05:02 PM EDT by 1ar4me]
Ignorance of the law is no excuse, Calling the BATF gets you qoutes from the law. Study the law your self and argue with others , just as attorneys do in school. As soon as you have a clearly defined def. you can plainly read that having those parts rubbing up against or resting in is not breaking the law. The law states you cannot readily restore a weapon to fire full auto. Having an AR-15 rcvr, that cannot be converted to full auto with the addition of parts from an M-16 does NOT make it a Machine gun. PERIOD. if you believe restoring a AR-15 means milling and drilling you are sadly mistaken, that would considered the production of a class 3 weapon, To restor a rcvr would mean to bring it back to its original condition, A AR-15 rcvr thus would be returned back to a block of metal, Having a M-16 rcvr that was demilled and you tried to weld it together I would consider that manufacture of a MG. Again NO WHERE in any Law book or code does it say you cannot use M-16 parts in a AR-15 rcvr. Just the addition of the trigger assembly does not make your AR-15 a Machine Gun. In addition your basic FAL has all the nec. parts except no disconnector.. You tell me the difference?, None absolutley NONE, Just about any FAL commonly produced has the same exact parts the M-16/AR-15 does with the exception of the disconnector.... Does that then make DSA/CAI etc guilty of selling a MG... NO Then please explain. Why do some parts companies continue to sell FA parts? because they are standing up for there rights. Boycott any company that refuses to sell you parts/ short barrels etc. There is NO law stating that they cannot sell them to you. I buy a 11.5 inch barrel the weld a FS on it. thats ok right. Well some of our more famous makers are now saying I have to supply them with a tax stap to purchase. BS
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 3:07:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1ar4me: Ignorance of the law is no excuse, Calling the BATF gets you qoutes from the law. Study the law your self and argue with others , just as attorneys do in school. As soon as you have a clearly defined def. you can plainly read that having those parts rubbing up against or resting in is not breaking the law. The law states you cannot readily restore a weapon to fire full auto. Having an AR-15 rcvr, that cannot be converted to full auto with the addition of parts from an M-16 does NOT make it a Machine gun. PERIOD. if you believe restoring a AR-15 means milling and drilling you are sadly mistaken, that would considered the production of a class 3 weapon, To restor a rcvr would mean to bring it back to its original condition, A AR-15 rcvr thus would be returned back to a block of metal, Having a M-16 rcvr that was demilled and you tried to weld it together I would consider that manufacture of a MG. Again NO WHERE in any Law book or code does it say you cannot use M-16 parts in a AR-15 rcvr. Just the addition of the trigger assembly does not make your AR-15 a Machine Gun.
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Have you even read the statutory definition of a machinegun under title 26? It does indeed include possession of "parts" whether installed or not.
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