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Posted: 9/13/2004 4:40:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 4:41:44 PM EST by ffsparky26]
Here is my post AWB story of the day.

I get off of work at 5:30pm and rush to Guncraft, a large once prominent gunshop in Knoxville, TN. I get there walk around and look. No info about the Assault Weapons Ban, not many guns in stock, junk accesories.

Then I politely wait at the counter for about 20 min, no one says a damn thing. There were only three customers in the store. Now I am off of work wear Kahki's and a Polo shirt, so I am well dressed. So finally I ask the guy behind the counter if he had any high capacity magizenes. He scoffs at me "Why would I order a bunch of high cap mags, it's not like I can sell them for $100 dollars a peice any more. I only get a 10% mark up on them." I was angry as hell, I ask a polite question and he is rambling on about is profit margins. There was a cop standing in line or I would have cussed the slime ball out. I just shook my head and walked out.


This isn't the first time they have pulled shit like this either. They did the same thing when I came in hunting a 1911. The next week I went in there to talk to there smith about some custom work, he was cool. Then I told there sales guy I found the gun for $80 less online with the dealer fees included. He pulled the same shit as the guy talking about the high caps.

Now guys like him are the ones who support gun control legislation that will improve his profit margins. They are the scum of the gun world, worse than Sarah Brady and Dianne Feinstein.

The moral of this story is DO NOT PURCHASE ANYTHING FROM GUNCRAFT IN KNOXVILLE, TN. MAKE SURE THAT THIS SCUMBAG GOES OUT OF BUSINESS


Here is there site so you know who not to purchase from, they also come to the local gun shows in Knoxvilee, TN. This is hard to do for me, my brother is friends with the family who run this place. The old man who grew it to what it was passed away and now his dumbass kids have killed it.


GUNCRAFT

They have showed there true colors, he said he wouldn't go out of his way to procure no-ban items because it wouldn't help his profit margin. Only god knows what the traitors to the cause have lobbied for to pad there coffers.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:43:50 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:43:55 PM EST
Gun stores going out of business does not benefit any of us. Firearm stores and their presence is an absolutely GOOD thing, even if run by profit hungry assholes. I mean, think about it, gun sales are down compared to 30 years ago and to keep above costs, these dealers must charge more. Its capitalism at its finest.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:46:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By ffsparky26:
Here is my post AWB story of the day.

I get off of work at 5:30pm and rush to Guncraft, a large once prominent gunshop in Knoxville, TN. I get there walk around and look. No info about the Assault Weapons Ban, not many guns in stock, junk accesories.

Then I politely wait at the counter for about 20 min, no one says a damn thing. There were only three customers in the store. Now I am off of work wear Kahki's and a Polo shirt, so I am well dressed. So finally I ask the guy behind the counter if he had any high capacity magizenes. He scoffs at me "Why would I order a bunch of high cap mags, it's not like I can sell them for $100 dollars a peice any more. I only get a 10% mark up on them." I was angry as hell, I ask a polite question and he is rambling on about is profit margins. There was a cop standing in line or I would have cussed the slime ball out. I just shook my head and walked out.


This isn't the first time they have pulled shit like this either. They did the same thing when I came in hunting a 1911. The next week I went in there to talk to there smith about some custom work, he was cool. Then I told there sales guy I found the gun for $80 less online with the dealer fees included. He pulled the same shit as the guy talking about the high caps.

Now guys like him are the ones who support gun control legislation that will improve his profit margins. They are the scum of the gun world, worse than Sarah Brady and Dianne Feinstein.

The moral of this story is DO NOT PURCHASE ANYTHING FROM GUNCRAFT IN KNOXVILLE, TN. MAKE SURE THAT THIS SCUMBAG GOES OUT OF BUSINESS


Here is there site so you know who not to purchase from, they also come to the local gun shows in Knoxvilee, TN. This is hard to do for me, my brother is friends with the family who run this place. The old man who grew it to what it was passed away and now his dumbass kids have killed it.


GUNCRAFT

They have showed there true colors, he said he wouldn't go out of his way to procure no-ban items because it wouldn't help his profit margin. Only god knows what the traitors to the cause have lobbied for to pad there coffers.


I'm surprised he didn't give you the "...you don't need them for huntin'.." line.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:48:30 PM EST
When I lived there for awhile I went in there periodically. The guy that owns(owned) it was kind of a jerk. I took a high end scope in there to sell on consignment. I waited the 45 days on my contract, then tried to get it back as I had sold it online.
The owner said I had to pay some stupid percentage of my asking price + tax to get it back.
I brought in my contract and told him to shove it. Give me my scope back and we'll get along fine.
Got it back and never went back.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:49:45 PM EST
Ask him how much money he makes on the mags that the other stores sell.

While he's scratching his head, turn and walk out.

BTW, I'll be in Knoxville this weekend
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:51:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 4:52:07 PM EST by 3-7INFANTRY]
Add another one to the list.

Wakulla gun and pawn. Same way. Want to keep the AW ban as it was, to increase profits.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:52:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By Balzac72:
Gun stores going out of business does not benefit any of us. Firearm stores and their presence is an absolutely GOOD thing, even if run by profit hungry assholes. I mean, think about it, gun sales are down compared to 30 years ago and to keep above costs, these dealers must charge more. Its capitalism at its finest.




But Balzac it doesn't even make sense not to carry those items. Remember supply and demand, there is one hell of a demand. And if was first to get them to market he could make a tidy profit. But no, he will not even order no-ban high caps to meet a demand because in his conveluted mind he thinks the AWB shored up his profit margins.

Any loss he made in "Pre Ban" guns could eaisly be made up in volume sales due to the new demand.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:53:12 PM EST
Fuck 'em! Take your business elsewhere. There are better deals on the internet than in some gunshop. I can understand you wanting to support your local shop, but with an attitude like that they don't deserve your business. Be ready when the going out of business sale starts. You'll find some good deals.

People who earn a living from the gun industry, who aren't pro RKBA, commit a gross disservice to our constitutional rights. I refuse to purchase anything firearms related from any business where my standards are not met. There is one local shop I refuse to do business with and another who gets my business because they'll get me anything I ask for without the attitude. Expressed or implied!

HS1
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:55:45 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:56:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By Balzac72:
Gun stores going out of business does not benefit any of us. Firearm stores and their presence is an absolutely GOOD thing, even if run by profit hungry assholes. I mean, think about it, gun sales are down compared to 30 years ago and to keep above costs, these dealers must charge more. Its capitalism at its finest.



So my money is better in their pocket than mine?

I'm all for supporting local businesses, but if they gouge just because 'they are the local guy', then screw them.

It is capitalism at its finest... They are going to price themselves out of business.

Reminds me of the local gunshop here selling Peltor Tactical 6 stereo ear muffs for ~300. I said, "Boy, that's steep." and he came down a ton, but still couldn't touch Midway USA. If I hadn't said anything, he was going to take his $200 profit on a set of muffs.

Instead, he got $0.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:04:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By HighStrung1:
Fuck 'em! Take your business elsewhere.
HS1



Coal Creek Armory is just up the road...




Must be something in the water.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:07:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 5:08:10 PM EST by Aimless]
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:13:53 PM EST
Your state is going Dem, in case you weren't aware. There is something in the water, when all the other states around you aren't.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:14:37 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:22:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2004 1:19:35 PM EST by TennVol]

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By JoeWang:
Your state is going Dem, in case you weren't aware. There is something in the water, when all the other states around you aren't.

I think his end of TN is still R



You are correct. Our man in the House of Reps (he is from Knoxville) is John Duncan - definitely a GOP man!

I was born and raised in Knoxville. You are right about the Guncraft guys. I went there many years ago after they first opened. It is more of a "gun boutique" than a gun store. They catered mostly to housewifes and preppy guys who wanted a "piece" to protect their home.

If I remember correctly, there is a nice little store way out on either Clinton Hwy or Sevier Hwy. I don't remember their damn name, but they used to have a lot of Class III firearms in stock. If they are still in business, I'm sure they carry what you're hankerin' for!
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:34:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 5:36:19 PM EST by TNAR15]
East Tenn is still a republican area, but the west end is a another story. As far as Guncraft its no secret that there tying to sell the store. This is why they have nothing there and don't seem to care. The store has been empty for sometime. Try Guns N More on Kingston PK and CCA either one can fix you up with what you need.

TennVol your thinking of Craigs out in south Knox.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:35:13 PM EST
It's no surprise, since gun shops are usually run by people with NO business sense. They are so focused on making "X" number of $$$ per sale that they lose sight of the big picture. These jackasses would get a preban AR15 in and let it sit on the shelf for months, if not years, until someone came along and paid their fifteen hundreds bucks.

Same with magazines. I would go in month after month, year after year and see the SAME stack of beat to hell 30 round USGIs they wanted $45 each for. In their mind all that inventory sitting there is as good as money in the bank. Now they are crying crocodile tears when they could be throwing NIB 30 rounders out the door as fast as they could for $15 a pop.

It all comes down to being lazy greedy bastards. They really hate dealing with people, and would rather bend over a few customers a month for a ton of cash on each transaction than deal with a lot of customers selling actual products at actual market prices.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:41:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 5:43:31 PM EST by WizardOfAhs]

Originally Posted By Balzac72:
Gun stores going out of business does not benefit any of us. Firearm stores and their presence is an absolutely GOOD thing, even if run by profit hungry assholes. I mean, think about it, gun sales are down compared to 30 years ago and to keep above costs, these dealers must charge more. Its capitalism at its finest.



Bloody brilliant!

And so you "support" price gouging and other unethical business practices providing it's a gunshop?

*Ace ventura voice* Well, alllrightyyyyyyyy then.....

BTW, my ballsack still insists you stop using it's name lest you pay "licensing"..

[Edited to add the later]
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:57:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By Balzac72:
Gun stores going out of business does not benefit any of us. Firearm stores and their presence is an absolutely GOOD thing, even if run by profit hungry assholes. I mean, think about it, gun sales are down compared to 30 years ago and to keep above costs, these dealers must charge more. Its capitalism at its finest.



Tell you what, you give me $1200 of your own money for a POST-BAN Bushmaster, and I'll gladly buy from Asshole HQ. Otherwise, unlike you, I don't support people that actually ridicule gun owners and overcharge (more like steal) from customers.

Fuck 'em. I don't want their business to go out, but I want them to suffer. I hope the ATF goes raiding in there someday.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 6:06:52 PM EST

This isn't the first time they have pulled shit like this either. They did the same thing when I came in hunting a 1911. The next week I went in there to talk to there smith about some custom work, he was cool. Then I told there sales guy I found the gun for $80 less online with the dealer fees included. He pulled the same shit as the guy talking about the high caps.

Not a good thing to tell the shop. Internet transactions are part of why you have have prices and spotty selection in inventory. You cannot keep the lights on by making a 10% margin. A lot of people who buy on NET look at things first in local gun shops, ask questions, and handle firearms. And they have the item in stock. I am not saying you are the problem. It sounds like these guys are lacking in customer sevice but pointing out that you got the gun for less online( from a cuttrought distributor is not the wisest move. Customer Service and Customer Curteosy are both required. I would not shop there again either.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 6:07:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By tc6969:
I promise I wont shop their.



Spielling Nazi! tha whay peeple spell si there ohn buisness ...
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 6:08:00 PM EST
Buy mags online...
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 6:08:37 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 6:09:29 PM EST
THAT WHY YOU ONLY SHOP AT GUN SHOPS FOR GUNS, mags and other accessories buy them online that way you dont have to deal with these assholes that much
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 6:33:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
I can tell that you are the type of gun buyer who would want a discount on $20 bills because they are used.



...So you want a $750 Bushmaster for $1200, too, dontcha?

Go ahead. Be my guest. Deal with assholes that won't support our cause.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 6:52:06 PM EST
I love the buy it online and fu*ck the business in town crowd. You want a gun store to carry every little bit of BS and sell it for less than 10% profit. Oh and by the way please keep current on all aspects of the firearms business in the smallest detail. I may have a question for you, if you do not know the answer you are an idiot and should be run out of business. You wonder why most people in gun stores have a bad attitude, they get sick and tired of all the BS from morons. Do I like all the people I have met in the business Hell no! I get sick of hearing the perpetual whine of people, Whats your best cash price, I can order off the net for this. Go for it. Just remember, when you need that part that you lost before a big match, the one I brought from home and gave you free, the padded shipping box for your rifle, the prizes and sponsors items for your shoot, the hey I do not know how this is supposed top go back together, can you help me. I am thinking about this scope or this firearm, you know we spent an hour or so going over the benefits of each one. Then you came in 2 weeks later with the exact item off the internet or from you friend with an FFL. My favorite is I bought this online or at a gunshow, will you contact the manufacturer and handle my warranty claim for me. Over the years I have met some incredible people at the stores I have worked. Most of my best friends are from shooting. I guess there is no making some people happy.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 7:06:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
I can tell that you are the type of gun buyer who would want a discount on $20 bills because they are used.



The guy behind the counter said he would not carry any no ban magizenes because he couldn't sell them for ban prices. He asked me why should he order high cap mags when he will not make any more money off them than ban era mags, i.e selling them for $100 Dollars a mag. This is the mentality that will push for legislation to drive up prices, because it will boost his profit margins.

Yes I could have bought them cheaper online, but I tried to support the local gunshops. I tried, he didn't. He showed piss poor customer service and lost a sale. If he would have had the mags for $21 Dollars I would have bought 10 of them, and i could have got them cheaper at CDNN. But the popus asses that run that place will not order any no ban mags because they can't rape shooters for $100 Dollars a mag. I was doing him a favor, his business is on it's last leg. I know the family that runs the damn place and when the old man died it has went to shit. I went there to support a local gun shop.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 7:15:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By plan_b:
Not a good thing to tell the shop. Internet transactions are part of why you have have prices and spotty selection in inventory. You cannot keep the lights on by making a 10% margin. A lot of people who buy on NET look at things first in local gun shops, ask questions, and handle firearms. And they have the item in stock. I am not saying you are the problem. It sounds like these guys are lacking in customer sevice but pointing out that you got the gun for less online( from a cuttrought distributor is not the wisest move. Customer Service and Customer Curteosy are both required. I would not shop there again either.



Why not, they fail to do market research and I am giving them feed back. I wanted to buy a gun there, but I refuse to do it for damn near $100 dollars more than buying it online. Hell online I have to go through two FFL's and have it shipped, IT WAS STILL CHEAPER.

Telling them that there prices is too high is doing them a favor. By letting them over price there stuff and run it into the ground I am ultimately hurting the firearms business. You can see there business is collapsing and they are trying to compensate by over pricing there items. They are pricing items higher than the demand will meet. I only go there to try to help out a local gunshop, but no good deed goes unpunished.

Hell it's like me going to every gunshow, do I always buy? Nope. But I go to help support the gunshow premoters. Would I go if they charged way more than the market would accept for gunshow admission, nope.

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 7:22:10 PM EST
Yeah, I went to the Shooter's Depot and that greek guy wanted to sell me mags (that he had to order btw) for 40 bucks which I could get from 2 different sources online for 25. Now I personally like George, but I told him no thanks. If you're ever in Corpus Christi, go to his shop. He does some really nice gunsmithing.

I'm all for ordering online if it is cheaper. Thats capitalism. Besides, theres nothing preventing the shop owners from selling over the internet. THE SMART ONES DO.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 7:30:15 PM EST
Well I like to tryto give local buisness and will pay abit more. I normally add $75 to any price online for a gun, $15 for xfer $25-35 shipping and about $25 since I dont grt to see if upclose and have it right now. If they can get near that price I'll get it.

Around here there are alot of sotres that arent worth going to, and several I wont go to becuase they are run by assholes like you ran into.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 7:32:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By ffsparky26:

Originally Posted By plan_b:
Not a good thing to tell the shop. Internet transactions are part of why you have have prices and spotty selection in inventory. You cannot keep the lights on by making a 10% margin. A lot of people who buy on NET look at things first in local gun shops, ask questions, and handle firearms. And they have the item in stock. I am not saying you are the problem. It sounds like these guys are lacking in customer sevice but pointing out that you got the gun for less online( from a cuttrought distributor is not the wisest move. Customer Service and Customer Curteosy are both required. I would not shop there again either.



Why not, they fail to do market research and I am giving them feed back. I wanted to buy a gun there, but I refuse to do it for damn near $100 dollars more than buying it online. Hell online I have to go through two FFL's and have it shipped, IT WAS STILL CHEAPER.

Telling them that there prices is too high is doing them a favor. By letting them over price there stuff and run it into the ground I am ultimately hurting the firearms business. You can see there business is collapsing and they are trying to compensate by over pricing there items. They are pricing items higher than the demand will meet. I only go there to try to help out a local gunshop, but no good deed goes unpunished.

Hell it's like me going to every gunshow, do I always buy? Nope. But I go to help support the gunshow premoters. Would I go if they charged way more than the market would accept for gunshow admission, nope.




You don't get it .....
Rent, insurance, utility bills, payroll, healthcare, MONEY TO BUY THE STUFF.
If you only make $20 on a gun that he buys for $600, he might be able to pay for 2 employees to work an hour or so.
That doesn't make sense.

If you wnat to pay just over invoice, get your own store, get your own insurance, your own health care, YOUR OWN FFL, and all the headaches that go with the buisness AND QUIT FUCKING CRYING THAT YOU PAYED MORE THAN THE DEALER.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 7:46:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By ffsparky26:

This isn't the first time they have pulled shit like this either. They did the same thing when I came in hunting a 1911. The next week I went in there to talk to there smith about some custom work, he was cool. Then I told there sales guy I found the gun for $80 less online with the dealer fees included. He pulled the same shit as the guy talking about the high caps.




Generally, the "but I can get it here for $XX cheape" doesn't fly too well and dealers can get pretty annoyed when that line is used. You are paying a premium for them being there (rent/mortgage, insurance, utilities, etc.), having experts, such as a gunsmith, on the premsis, and having all sorts of inventory for people to fondle. $80 is probably on the high end of what I would consider an acceptable premium, but if the shop does good work and strives to meet your needs then it isn't unreasonable. Also, if you build a working relationship with a dealer, then you will most likely be able to get a discount.

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 7:53:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By Engineer:

Originally Posted By ffsparky26:

This isn't the first time they have pulled shit like this either. They did the same thing when I came in hunting a 1911. The next week I went in there to talk to there smith about some custom work, he was cool. Then I told there sales guy I found the gun for $80 less online with the dealer fees included. He pulled the same shit as the guy talking about the high caps.




Generally, the "but I can get it here for $XX cheape" doesn't fly too well and dealers can get pretty annoyed when that line is used. You are paying a premium for them being there (rent/mortgage, insurance, utilities, etc.), having experts, such as a gunsmith, on the premsis, and having all sorts of inventory for people to fondle. $80 is probably on the high end of what I would consider an acceptable premium, but if the shop does good work and strives to meet your needs then it isn't unreasonable. Also, if you build a working relationship with a dealer, then you will most likely be able to get a discount.




ANd that is important.

YOu don't buy one gun and expect to get a major break on the second.

YOu have to BUILD the relationship, and that means spending money, and not just once in a blue moon.

What I do is build a rapport with the customer, and if he keeps coming back, I start to give him discounts on small items, and then if he buys a few (2 or 3) guns, I will be able to make a case for giving him a good deal on his next pistol.

Remember that most stores don't sell a bunch of guns every day, and in reality, there money is made up in accessories and cleaning stuff.

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 8:08:20 PM EST
We have a "gun shop" here in Seaford NY T&T Gunnery,,in the 80's the owner painted the outside in Camo had the US, pre apart. South African and Marine Corps Flags,,,I liked the S.A. flag though noone knew it was such(customers) I went in he and another big guy and employees were wearing "cammies" I thought I love this place lots of cases of military ammo ,,,large displays of firearms,,,and that S.Afrifcan flag! well the owner was a total a-hole,,,,his prices well pre internet seemed good at the time as I asked guestions about military rifles etc. I realized they were full of fecal matter. Recently I went with a friend and I picked up a FAL FN what ever,,I asked if this no bayonet,,muzzle brake weapon was pre ban,,the owner looked at me and said it was,,,then I pointed out that it lacked the flash suppressor and lug,,alot of people arounf I just played stupid,,he looked like the a-hole he is,,,oh yea when I asked him about the "Corps" on a earlier visit he said that he got out on a medical discharge because of his shoulders,,,,BABY BLUE LYING BASTARD....he could not do pull ups! Big fatr football playing ass. 20 yrs ago I got a kid in the area to go into the Marines,,I tried to get him to run with me <<I told him what to expect he told me I was full of shit,,I said a-hole in a few months you'll know,,well his big football playing (H.S.)ass got sent to a physical conditioning platton,,he lost 57 lbs.. well the morning after he got home from P.I. he came over to run my older ass into the ground,,,hung over as I was I ran his now decently "inshape" ass into the ground he was so dejcted,,he could not believe that the day after "Boot Camp" that I could do so,,I told hime Remember you only went through Basic Training...
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 8:48:28 PM EST
Exactly my point. These guys may be assholes but your view on internet sales is dangerous. If the small shops close it will make it easier to drive out the table-top dealers. Who will handle your transfers then. We have Importer/ retailer who constantly calls us saying that they sold a gun to a customer in our area and would we handle the transfer for a NOMINAL FEE. So they want to make the retail sale and lave us scraping for a lousy Transfer fee the customers whines about. The sad part is that we are a dealer for this company and instead of sending the customer to us and getting their wholesale sale they try to double up. The reason ammo is so high at shops is the low turnover from mart-marts and internet blowing it out. Last year WM was selling win (mm 10rd boxes for $10.98 we paid $10.99. That is why I warned against critisizing their price in front of them. They know what that gun costs and will remember you not as a loyal customer but a " psssst.. don't waste your time with him he'll just look then go order it somewhere else" customer.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 9:01:02 PM EST
ONLINE!!
Except i bought some ammo from a friend who's shop just went out.

I buy from people on ARFCOM because i know they feel the same way as i do about guns
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 3:05:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By Hydguy:

You don't get it .....
Rent, insurance, utility bills, payroll, healthcare, MONEY TO BUY THE STUFF.
If you only make $20 on a gun that he buys for $600, he might be able to pay for 2 employees to work an hour or so.
That doesn't make sense.

If you wnat to pay just over invoice, get your own store, get your own insurance, your own health care, YOUR OWN FFL, and all the headaches that go with the buisness AND QUIT FUCKING CRYING THAT YOU PAYED MORE THAN THE DEALER.



And, because they have to make a living like me, that gives them a right to highway robbery?

I don't fucking think so. I work too. Come to my yard sale next week and I'll sell you a Bic-Pen for $45 - Hey, I got to pay bills too!

Link Posted: 9/14/2004 4:24:38 AM EST
I've thought about this a lot, and what I think needs to happen is a complete change in the business model for gun shops. It is no longer possible to buy an item from, let's say TAPCO, tack on 15% and try to sell it in your store. People will naturally just cut out the middleman and go directly to the source if they can and are smart enough to. If our government hadn't screwed us by requiring there be licensed dealers, gun shops would already be extinct. The government has interfered in the marketplace and we, the consumers, as usual, are the losers.

So what can be done about it? Well, a couple of things. First, gun shops should not stock so much merchandise. Make the store a catalog order center and partner with online stores who have the volume it takes to offer competitive prices--economy of scale. I would love to see a MidwayUSA retail outlet. Hell, this is what Gateway computer tried to do. It worked well in some locales.

Second, we need more people doing FFL transfers as a sideline. If you can't make a living at it, do it as a hobby business and pay for your own hobby that way. This is what most FFLs are doing already, they just don't seem to realize it.

Better yet, make FFL transfers a part of a different business--a bait and tackle store, for example. One guy I used to do business with ran his FFL appointment-only transfer service on the side of a very successful extermination business.

Or, you can add value--offer courses in self defense, CCW, whatever. Make those pay the bills.

You have to understand, were it not for government interference in the marketplace, your entire role in the transaction would have been completely eradicated. You're part of a collectivist scheme, an affront to efficient capitalism. It is frustrating, but that's the America we live in.

The Internet is here to stay and it is a powerful retail sales medium. Smart businessmen will use it to their advantage and quit bitching about how it is pricing them out of the market. And please, no more sleazy auctions which are just another form of marketing for a gun that was sold three days ago.

This idea that you are going to wait around for the rube who has more dollars than sense is what is running gun shops out of business. There are still lots of rubes, but you're pissing away good sales, too.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 4:31:19 AM EST
Just because a guy has an FFL and a store front....he should be selling $8 AK mags for $45?

I have no problem supporting my local dealer...and if the price is within reason...I buy. But a damn near 600% markup?
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 4:35:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2004 5:49:10 AM EST by CAMPYBOB]
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 4:49:40 AM EST
You have to have inventory. Not everyone wants to wait for an order. Would you buy a car from a catalog?
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 1:04:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2004 1:06:14 PM EST by Balzac72]

Originally Posted By WizardOfAhs:

Originally Posted By Balzac72:
Gun stores going out of business does not benefit any of us. Firearm stores and their presence is an absolutely GOOD thing, even if run by profit hungry assholes. I mean, think about it, gun sales are down compared to 30 years ago and to keep above costs, these dealers must charge more. Its capitalism at its finest.



Bloody brilliant!

And so you "support" price gouging and other unethical business practices providing it's a gunshop?

*Ace ventura voice* Well, alllrightyyyyyyyy then.....

BTW, my ballsack still insists you stop using it's name lest you pay "licensing"..

[Edited to add the later]



Did I say that you had to support price gouging? Does your literacy need some help here? I think so. This is what he said, note what's in red. Do you think boycotting a store over some guns is beneficial to the firearms community because you don't like their mag prices?


The moral of this story is DO NOT PURCHASE ANYTHING FROM GUNCRAFT IN KNOXVILLE, TN. MAKE SURE THAT THIS SCUMBAG GOES OUT OF BUSINESS


I also don't think that pricing mags high is "unethical" its covering "losses" if they bought the mags high during the ban. Will they sell them? Probably not, but who cares!

By the way, the "Ballsack" comments are about as funny from you as they are from Sweep. Ha. You think you're the first whitty one to come up with that?
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 1:57:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sturmwehr:

Originally Posted By Hydguy:

You don't get it .....
Rent, insurance, utility bills, payroll, healthcare, MONEY TO BUY THE STUFF.
If you only make $20 on a gun that he buys for $600, he might be able to pay for 2 employees to work an hour or so.
That doesn't make sense.

If you wnat to pay just over invoice, get your own store, get your own insurance, your own health care, YOUR OWN FFL, and all the headaches that go with the buisness AND QUIT FUCKING CRYING THAT YOU PAYED MORE THAN THE DEALER.



And, because they have to make a living like me, that gives them a right to highway robbery?

I don't fucking think so. I work too. Come to my yard sale next week and I'll sell you a Bic-Pen for $45 - Hey, I got to pay bills too!




What is highway robbery? Under retail? I don't think so.

How much should YOU have to pay for a NIB Bushy with all the features?
I know what we paid for the gun, and you want it for the same price?
YO uguys are the main reason the people close up shop. If they cannot make the bills, and have money left over to keep inventory in, and make a little as a return, why go through the hassles?

YOu want the gun for what the dealer paid, his living be damned.


Have fun trying to get a gun transfered without an FFL around to do it.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 2:47:38 PM EST

What is highway robbery? Under retail?


No, over retail. Thanks for not reading.


I don't think so.


You're right, you don't.


How much should YOU have to pay for a NIB Bushy with all the features?


THE SAME AS EVERYONE ELSE - PLUS SHIPPING AND FFL TRANSFER FEES.

Jesus, there's NO REASON AT ALL to sell a $750 rifle for $1200. Go ahead and try to defend them - I won't buy anything from you either.


I know what we paid for the gun, and you want it for the same price?


...We? If you're that asshole at MBISR, I have 3 words for you: Go. To. Hell.

And, no, I will gladly pay a SMALL mark-up fee (no more than 10%), but you want me to pay almost 1 and 3/4s as much? What the hell are you smoking?


YO uguys are the main reason the people close up shop.


Nope, we're the reason vultures of a gun dealers go out because they care only about themselves and want to fuck over their brethern for .25 cents.

Now, I know you got bills to pay, but no reason in hell should I give you more money simply because you think I'm a fucking moron and you can get me to pay almost double the cost for a rifle.

Price gougers have ONLY THEMSELVES to thank for business closings. There's a difference between profit and price gouging - $30 USGI 30rd AR mags (what, a dollar per round? LOL) is gouging. $15 is profit. I'll pay, gladly, at a local store that price - but I ain't gonna pay someone to fuck me in the ass... I can get that for free in prison.


If they cannot make the bills, and have money left over to keep inventory in, and make a little as a return, why go through the hassles?


Exactly, why go through the hassles? Why, instead of having a 10% markup, do dealers have their merchandise at 40% of above for MONTHS knowing that some idiot will wander in, go "Ohhhh, ahhhh!" and pay the outrageous price?


YOu want the gun for what the dealer paid, his living be damned.


If I want the gun for what the dealer paid, I'd apply for an FFL. Before you put words in my mouth, get them out of yours correctly, capisce?


Have fun trying to get a gun transfered without an FFL around to do it.


If assholes like you charge $300 more on a gun that it's worth, I'd rather save that money and get an FFL. If you charge 10% mark-up to cover costs, that's fine and dandy.

However, many dealers don't. You can defend it all you want, but myself and others want nothing to do with nonsense driven babblespeak of paying 30% mark-ups and up just because a dealer is a greedy shit.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 3:13:56 PM EST
Well everone should have to pay MSRP that would be fair to everyone. If all dealers stuck to the factory pricing we would not have this issue. Problem solved. I think if you really think about it you are probably paid too much for the job you do. I think you should go to your boss and tell him you would like to be paid less. I think your boss shoyuld only have to pay you 10% over your monthly expenses.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 3:41:51 PM EST
Overall, I gotta agree about Guncraft. I inquired as to their transfer fees on a suppressor purchase. Sorry, but I'm not paying a $100 transfer fee on a $250 silencer.

I thought Guns n' More might be the same a couple of months ago. They wouldn't even speculate on the possibliities of private sales of LEO Colts after the ban. Wouldn't even talk. Imagine my suprise, and somewhat dissapointment when I called as to inquire as to the status of their 2 LE Colts on Monday, only to find out they had already sold them both- in 2 hours!

As for CCA, I've never had ANY problems there. Where else can you get a $25 suppressor transfer?
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 4:08:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By thelibertarian:
I've thought about this a lot, and what I think needs to happen is a complete change in the business model for gun shops. It is no longer possible to buy an item from, let's say TAPCO, tack on 15% and try to sell it in your store. People will naturally just cut out the middleman and go directly to the source if they can and are smart enough to. If our government hadn't screwed us by requiring there be licensed dealers, gun shops would already be extinct.



Correct and correct although the FFL being saved by limitations on sales and transfers thing was an accident on .gov's part. Chances are they would never do anything to 'help' an FFL.



So what can be done about it? Well, a couple of things. First, gun shops should not stock so much merchandise. Make the store a catalog order center and partner with online stores who have the volume it takes to offer competitive prices--economy of scale. I would love to see a MidwayUSA retail outlet. Hell, this is what Gateway computer tried to do. It worked well in some locales.



Gateway blew that deal totally. You never take a successful online retailer and anchor it with bricks and overhead. Dell's answer was much smarter: small cheap kiosks at malls which cost 1/1000th of that Gateway spent and lets them keep doing the online thing as their main biz.




Second, we need more people doing FFL transfers as a sideline. If you can't make a living at it, do it as a hobby business and pay for your own hobby that way. This is what most FFLs are doing already, they just don't seem to realize it.



This might be true, but the FFL rules make it tough for part time dealers. I think the federal restrictions on sales out of state need to be our next collective target. Let each state that wants to be communist be in charge oif their own BS laws and keep BATFE out of it.



This idea that you are going to wait around for the rube who has more dollars than sense is what is running gun shops out of business. There are still lots of rubes, but you're pissing away good sales, too.



True.

If I had a good gunshop on the corner I'd be broke and he'd be a success.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 4:53:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2004 5:11:36 PM EST by rock71]

Originally Posted By Sturmwehr:

.


Tell you what, you give me $1200 of your own money for a POST-BAN Bushmaster, and I'll gladly buy from Asshole HQ. Otherwise, unlike you, I don't support people that actually ridicule gun owners and overcharge (more like steal) from customers.

Fuck 'em. I don't want their business to go out, but I want them to suffer. I hope the ATF goes raiding in there someday.



Dude, Im soooo glad bass pro opened up. I hope that business you mentioned goes belly up. Those arrogant bastards. It made me angry to read their price tags. BTW 707 gunshop seems to be a pretty fair local shop. IMHO
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 5:01:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2004 5:08:54 PM EST by ffsparky26]

Originally Posted By Balzac72:



The moral of this story is DO NOT PURCHASE ANYTHING FROM GUNCRAFT IN KNOXVILLE, TN. MAKE SURE THAT THIS SCUMBAG GOES OUT OF BUSINESS


IF YOU READ MY ORGINAL POST I AM COMPLAINING BECAUSE THE ASSHOLE AT GUNCRAFT SAID HE WOULD NOT ORDER ANY, I REPEATE HE STATED HE WOULD NOT ORDER ANY NO BAN MAGIZENES BECAUSE HE CAN NOT SELL THEM FOR $100 A MAGIZENE. DO YOU UNDERSTAND.

THESE ARE THE TYPES OF POMPUS ASSES THAT WOULD SELL US OUT ON FIGHTING AN ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN BECAUSE IT WOULD COST HIM MONEY. HE SAID "Why would I order a bunch of high cap mags, it's not like I can sell them for $100 dollars a peice any more. I only get a 10% mark up on them." HE REFUSES TO ORDERN ANY NO BAN MAGIZENES BECAUSE HE CAN NOT SELL THEM AT DURING BAN PRICES.


IF YOU READ MY ORGINAL POST I AM COMPLAINING BECAUSE THE ASSHOLE AT GUNCRAFT SAID HE WOULD NOT ORDER ANY, I REPEATE HE STATED HE WOULD NOT ORDER ANY NO BAN MAGIZENES BECAUSE HE CAN NOT SELL THEM FOR $100 A MAGIZENE. DO YOU UNDERSTAND.

THESE ARE THE TYPES OF POMPUS ASSES THAT WOULD SELL US OUT ON FIGHTING AN ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN BECAUSE IT WOULD COST HIM MONEY. HE SAID "Why would I order a bunch of high cap mags, it's not like I can sell them for $100 dollars a peice any more. I only get a 10% mark up on them." HE REFUSES TO ORDERN ANY NO BAN MAGIZENES BECAUSE HE CAN NOT SELL THEM AT DURING BAN PRICES.


IF YOU READ MY ORGINAL POST I AM COMPLAINING BECAUSE THE ASSHOLE AT GUNCRAFT SAID HE WOULD NOT ORDER ANY, I REPEATE HE STATED HE WOULD NOT ORDER ANY NO BAN MAGIZENES BECAUSE HE CAN NOT SELL THEM FOR $100 A MAGIZENE. DO YOU UNDERSTAND.

THESE ARE THE TYPES OF POMPUS ASSES THAT WOULD SELL US OUT ON FIGHTING AN ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN BECAUSE IT WOULD COST HIM MONEY. HE SAID "Why would I order a bunch of high cap mags, it's not like I can sell them for $100 dollars a peice any more. I only get a 10% mark up on them." HE REFUSES TO ORDERN ANY NO BAN MAGIZENES BECAUSE HE CAN NOT SELL THEM AT DURING BAN PRICES.



I also don't think that pricing mags high is "unethical" its covering "losses" if they bought the mags high during the ban. Will they sell them? Probably not, but who cares!

THIS CREW OF FFL WORSHIPERS HAS PISSED AND MOANED ABOUT HOW I AM HURTING THE BUSINESS BY EXPECTING COMPETITIVE PRICES, YET YOU SAY YOU DON'T CARE IF HE SELLS MAGS. BY NOT CARING IF HE SELLS MAGS YOU ARE SAYING YOU DO NOT CARE IF HE MAKES ANY PROFIT

HIGH MARK UPS & LOW VOLUME SALES = UNRELIABLE PROFITS
LOWER MARK UPS (COMPETITIVE) & HIGH VOLUME SALES = CONSTANT PROFIT STREAM

YOU ONLY MAKE MONEY WHEN YOU MOVE MERCHANDISE. I TRY TO SUPPORT LOCAL GUNSHOPS BUT GUNCRAFT IS COMPLETLY USELESS.


I WENT AND BOUGHT 10 USED HIGH CAP GLOCK 22 MAGS FOR $110 DOLLARS AT CRAIG'S FIREARMS IN SEYMOUR, TN. THEY APPLIED SOUND ECONOMIC PRICIPLES, GOOD CUSTOMER SERVICE, GOT THE "I LOST MY ASS DURING THE BAN ON PRE BAN ITEMS CHIP OFF THERE SHOULDER", AND GOT MY BUSINESS. I PLAN ON PURCHASING ALL OF MY HIGH CAP PISTOL MAGS FROM THEM.



By the way, the "Ballsack" comments are about as funny from you as they are from Sweep. Ha. You think you're the first whitty one to come up with that?

THAT WASN'T ME YOU WERE QUOTING, THAT WAS SOMEONE ELESE. I DON'T CARE WHAT YOUR SCREEN NAME IS.





edited for readability.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 5:03:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2004 5:06:14 PM EST by M4-CQBR]

Originally Posted By tc6969:
I promise I wont shop their.



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