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Posted: 1/9/2005 2:31:15 AM EDT
Just as a fun question....

Lets just say you are in charge of starting a new SWAT or SRT team...

As the main rifle would you choose a MP5 or M4?

What sidearm would you pick?

Hell what shotgun?

What sniper rifle would you want your people using?

And any other equiqment you would like to add (ex... vests, holsters, radios, lights, lasers, sights, or scopes are all welcome)

Lets just say you have an unlimited budget....
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 2:32:35 AM EDT
sidearm...1911 in 45acp.

Rifle  M4 in .223

Shotty...Wilsom Combat 18"

Sgatr15


PS  and a tank
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 2:33:18 AM EDT
Longarm: M4

Sidearm: HK USP .45

Shotgun: Remington 870P

Sniper rifle: SAKO TRG

Misc: Surefire lights

Link Posted: 1/9/2005 2:35:43 AM EDT
The MP5 and the M4 perform 2 different roles.

Apples to Oranges if you will.

Personally I'd go with a M4/Sig P220/Rem 870
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 2:36:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Longarm: M4

Sidearm: HK USP .45

Shotgun: Remington 870P

Sniper rifle: SAKO TRG

Misc: Surefire lights




I forgot to add that.


PS.  I guess we can find somethings to agree on
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 2:39:29 AM EDT

Personally I'd go with a M4/Sig P220/Rem 870


What about a long range rifle?
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 2:40:03 AM EDT
M4s
1911s
Vang Comp 870s
AI AWMs
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 2:41:05 AM EDT
MP5 and M4 are two different beasts. Might as well compare an Uzi to an AK.
It would be situation dependent.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 2:45:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Speedinc:

Personally I'd go with a M4/Sig P220/Rem 870


What about a long range rifle?



whats long range?  I can shoot my 16inch ar 200yards open sights and hit a man sized target.  I assume a 14.5 inch M4 can do the same or similar.  real long range I would say somthing like a M1A
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 2:48:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Citabria7GCBC:

Originally Posted By Speedinc:

Personally I'd go with a M4/Sig P220/Rem 870


What about a long range rifle?



whats long range?  I can shoot my 16inch ar 200yards open sights and hit a man sized target.  I assume a 14.5 inch M4 can do the same or similar.  real long range I would say somthing like a M1A




Yeah, urban police work rarely involves long range beyond 200 meters.

Still, a precision sniper rifle is good for when you have to hit a melon-sized target right behind a hostage's head.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 2:49:18 AM EDT
I'm talking sniper stuff....
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 2:50:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
MP5 and M4 are two different beasts. Might as well compare an Uzi to an AK.
It would be situation dependent.



Now lets just say the dept. wants to use all the same rifle to be able to exchange mags...


SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, you can only pick one.....
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 3:08:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Speedinc:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
MP5 and M4 are two different beasts. Might as well compare an Uzi to an AK.
It would be situation dependent.



Now lets just say the dept. wants to use all the same rifle to be able to exchange mags...


SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, you can only pick one.....



Ok, fine I'll play along.

Main rifle: MP5 clone in .223. I get the coolness and compactness of the MP5, I get the ass kickedness of the .223 and can use adjustable barrel lengths to tailor the gun to the situation.

Sidearm: S&W 1911

Shotgun: Remington 1187 modified to take magazines.

Sniper: Sig 550 in .308
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 3:53:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Citabria7GCBC:
The MP5 and the M4 perform 2 different roles.

Apples to Oranges if you will.

Personally I'd go with a M4/Sig P220/Rem 870



Sounds kind of like what we get, but the SIG is a P220R.

And before you worry about any of that stuff, you need good body armor, breaching gear, less-lethal, chemical agents, shields, lights a van to put it all on, uniforms, gloves, boots and so forth. And people breaking it, losing it or whining because you could only afford 5 of the newest high-speed tactical widgets and they didn't get one. Lots of logistics for a SWAT Team-its why I should start drinking heavily.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 3:53:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 3:54:48 AM EDT by Wave]
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:05:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Speedinc:
I'm talking sniper stuff....




OH,  50 BMG!

NOT
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:07:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:10:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Speedinc:
Just as a fun question....

Lets just say you are in charge of starting a new SWAT or SRT team...

As the main rifle would you choose a MP5 or M4?M4

What sidearm would you pick?glock 21

Hell what shotgun?Mossberg 590 with affixed M7 bayonet

What sniper rifle would you want your people using?custom built rifles on mauser actions, built by moi

And any other equiqment you would like to add (ex... vests, holsters, radios, lights, lasers, sights, or scopes are all welcome)good body armor, secure radios with bone phones and throat mikes

Lets just say you have an unlimited budget....

Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:13:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 8:16:55 PM EDT by FortyFiveAutomatic]
Rifle: Given the choice, M4, but the XM8 looks tempting
Sidearm: Kimber/SA 1911
Shotgun: Franchi SPAS-12
Sniper: Tricked-out Springfield Armory M1A
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:14:22 PM EDT
M4
GLOCK 18
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:14:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Speedinc:
Lets just say you have an unlimited budget....



Unlimited budget?  then fuck it, I'd just hire Blackwater Security for all my SWAT needs
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:20:14 PM EDT
When my cousin was on LAPD SWAT a few years ago.  Their layout then was MP5s, 1911 sidearms,  a guy with a Benelli M3, and another guy with M4 if they needed to reach out and touch something.  Their snipers had Robar SR-60s in .308 with Leupy glass.  I'm not sure what they have now.  I think they've gone with all M4s with Hordny TAP and the 1911s.  I'm sure they have alot of other toys.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:28:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:32:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By Speedinc:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
MP5 and M4 are two different beasts. Might as well compare an Uzi to an AK.
It would be situation dependent.



Now lets just say the dept. wants to use all the same rifle to be able to exchange mags...


SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, you can only pick one.....



Ok, fine I'll play along.

Main rifle: MP5 clone in .223.


HK53?
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:32:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 8:34:49 PM EDT by M4]

Originally Posted By Speedinc:

Personally I'd go with a M4/Sig P220/Rem 870


What about a long range rifle?



No contest...absolutely no contest. (Gross overkill for domestic LEO's, I know)

Cheyenne Tactical - Intervention Cailber: .408 Cheyenne Tactical


The"intervention" Rifle.....
Intervention™ is a turn-bolt breakdown rifle modeled and down-sized after the Windrunner (.50 BMG).  The Windrunner is guaranteed for 1 MOA or better in the hands of a qualified shooter.  The prototype rifle chambered for the .408 Cheyenne Tactical® cartridge  is close to completion.  It will be used to finish the development of the .408 Cheyenne Tactical® cartridge, which is now in final stages of development.  The first 25 rifles will be constructed during 2001.  Three will be reserved for military testing -- 11 have been sold.  The K & P  barrel is a hand-removable via an Uzi-style barrel nut  Because it is a breakdown model, including the barrel, the rifle can be stowed in a hard or soft case smaller in size that what would normally be used for a rifle firing a 30 caliber sniper cartridge.  This rifle is expected to yield less than 0.5 MOA groups at 1000 yards using appropriate cartridges in the hands of trained shooter.          Details:Tactical Shooter magazine, Vol. 3, No. 4, pp. 5-20, 2000.



The .408 C.T. Round....
.408 Cheyenne Tactical® Cartridge.  This purpose of this 3000-plus yard (transonic between 3300 and 3400 yards) cartridge is to deliver accurate (sub MOA), to a target from a sniper platform.  In a different configuration, it is intended to replace the 7.62mm NATO cartridge, which is currently being used for the military's General Purpose Machine Gun (GPMG).  The mission for the sniper round is to selectively hit enemy targets located at great distances while at the same time, the sniper using the .408 CheyTac® is immune to counter snipers using conventional sniper cartridges.  It also has a limited anti-material role.  The cartridge's advantage for a machine gun -- intermediate between the M240 (7.62mm NATO) and the M2 HB (.50 Browning) is that it provides greater kinetic energy and hitting distance over the 7.62mm NATO and the .50 Browning cartridges, but does not have the weight disadvantage of the .50 Browning cartridge.  The cartridge out performs the external ballistic characteristics of the .50 Browning cartridge at 1000 yards and beyond, but fired from a platform less in weight that the M2 HB.  Contrasting weight by weight, the .408 Cheyenne Tactical™ cartridge is a third lighter, which translates into a third more cartridges per unit weight.

Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:35:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:37:17 PM EDT
M4 in .50 Beowulf
.500 S&W revolvers
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:37:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 8:44:16 PM EDT by Mr45auto]

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
sidearm...1911 in 45acp.

Rifle  M4 in .223

Shotty...Wilson Combat 18"

Sgatr15


PS  and a tank



Goddam it, pretty much tagged it.....

I'd ad the M1A to back up your snipers which of course would have the Remington 700 in .300RUM.  

Might have the entry team pointman carry a P90 and train them to use it in 5+ round bursts.    The M4s would have Eotechs.

For a trained pro no DA auto pistol will ever be as quick and effective as a proper M1911.   The P220 is more for a line cop who quals twice a year and never shoots beyond that..... damn, I carry a 220  
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:41:30 PM EDT
Rifle: 11.5 inch M16
Pistol: P220
Shotgun: 14 inch M590
Sniper: 6.8mm SPR
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:44:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:

.500 S&W revolvers



Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:48:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Speedinc:
Just as a fun question....

Lets just say you are in charge of starting a new SWAT or SRT team...

As the main rifle would you choose a MP5 or M4?M4

What sidearm would you pick?Kimber 45cal

Hell what shotgun?Mossberg 590 or Remington 870

What sniper rifle would you want your people using?AR-10 or SR-85

And any other equiqment you would like to add (ex... vests, holsters, radios, lights, lasers, sights, or scopes are all welcome)

Lets just say you have an unlimited budget....

Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:49:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stryfe:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By Speedinc:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
MP5 and M4 are two different beasts. Might as well compare an Uzi to an AK.
It would be situation dependent.



Now lets just say the dept. wants to use all the same rifle to be able to exchange mags...


SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, you can only pick one.....



Ok, fine I'll play along.

Main rifle: MP5 clone in .223.


HK53?



That'd be the beast. I'd also modify the design (If needed) to easily accept caliber conversions. I dont know how easily, or if all, a MP5 accepts caliber conversions. But if it doesnt, it would for me when I was done.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 9:08:40 PM EDT
Main:  HK M4 11.5
Sidearm:  HK USPCT .45
Shotty:  None
Extras:  Sight relfex sighting system, vertical grip, surefire tactical light.  Couple extra mags.

For strickly CQB, tight quarters, like a home, I'd change the HKM4 to a HK MP5-N.   Surefire handgaurd, reddot or reflex on top.  
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 9:31:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 9:32:23 PM EDT by ZW17]
ENTRY GUN:


SIDE ARM:



SNIPER RIFLE:





And my SWAT team only handles the worst of the worst.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 10:06:50 PM EDT
LMT MRPs with various barrels and setups.
1911s.
870s with pistol grips, for use as a master key.
FN SPR
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 10:14:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 10:16:32 PM EDT by Max-Q]
M4 11.5 inch + Surefire 900
Kimber 1911 TLE/RL .45 + Surefire light
Remington 870 shotgun

??? on sniper rifle.  (I'm not a sniper so I don't know what the heck they shoot other than .308s.  Us entry guys only get to shoot the P-90s and the M4's)  h.gif



Link Posted: 1/9/2005 10:18:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 10:34:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 10:39:08 PM EDT by S-1]

Originally Posted By Speedinc:
Just as a fun question....

Lets just say you are in charge of starting a new SWAT or SRT team...

As the main rifle would you choose a MP5 or M4? Entry: M4 10.5" CQBR w/ can Peremeter: Standard M4 14.5" (add ons: operators choice)

What sidearm would you pick? Sig P226R 9mm, Sig P220R (Operators Choice)

Hell what shotgun?Rem 870 18"

What sniper rifle would you want your people using? Rem 700 308, SR-25's

And any other equiqment you would like to add (ex... vests, holsters, radios, lights, lasers, sights, or scopes are all welcome) US Armor IIIA soft vest w/ a BHI S.T.R.I.K.E. Plate Carrier(w/plates) over soft armor set up how the operator likes it. Safariland 6004's. Scopes/ Red Dots are up to the Operator.

Lets just say you have an unlimited budget....

Link Posted: 1/9/2005 10:38:45 PM EDT
I like the MINIgun!!!!
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 10:57:44 PM EDT
Suppressed HK53 would be excellent for urban combat.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 10:59:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Suppressed HK53 would be excellent for urban combat.





Have you missed all of the discussions of terminal balistics here?
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:00:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 11:00:44 PM EDT by Specop_007]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Suppressed HK53 would be excellent for urban combat.





Have you missed all of the discussions of terminal balistics here?



At some point is staring at pretty pictures of ballistic gelitan did you forget to AIM your shots?

Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:04:09 PM EDT
No, but I would rather have a suppressed 10/22. Much cheaper to shoot and about as effective.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:11:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
No, but I would rather have a suppressed 10/22. Much cheaper to shoot and about as effective.

Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:33:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 11:41:24 PM EDT by ErinMT]
H&K MP5 in 10mm with Aimpoint Comp M2.
Barret M468 with Trijicon Reflex or 4x ACOG.
H&K Mark 23 SOCOM.
H&K MSG-90 with Leatherwood M1200 optics.
.408 C.T. Intervention with Horus Optics.
FNH TPS with EO Tech HWS
Chris Reeve Green Beret 7" combat knife.
Spyderco Military or Manix folding knife.

Team members would select whatever tac gear they were most comfortable with. Team would require monthly qualifications and weekly requirements of 500 fired training rounds. All normal styles of training would apply. Team would also be trained in armed, unarmed, edge weapons, stick, and staff fighting techniques.


*edit* Added the .408.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:38:42 PM EDT
primary: MP5SD or M4 or M1As, depending on entry/environment (i.e. meth labs vs. open fields)

sidearm: m1911a1

shot: rem 870

sniper: rem 700, 22in bbl in .308 or barrett .50bmg

Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:08:54 AM EDT
longarm: stun rifle
sidearm: stun pistol
backup: multi-fire stun handgun
sniper: 1000ft range dual-shok stun rifle fitted with infrared scope

I'm sure d-frankenstien would love this setup
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 4:38:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2005 4:39:22 AM EDT by M4]

Originally Posted By m98codered:
longarm: stun rifle
sidearm: stun pistol
backup: multi-fire stun handgun
sniper: 1000ft range dual-shok stun rifle fitted with infrared scope

I'm sure d-frankenstien would love this setup



This term "stun" you use.....you're obviously refering to "stun" in the sense that a .50BMG "stuns" a human head like a sledge hammer "stuns" a catalope upon impact.

Pretty sure that's what you meant.

Wheeew......for a second I thought you were rambling about some less than lethal nonsense!
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 5:09:54 AM EDT
Plasma rifle in 40 watt range
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 5:28:54 AM EDT
My friend's SWAT Team is now gettting their new DEA model RRAs.  These are direct replacements for their MP5s.  They wanted a rifle cartridge as opposed to a pistol cartridge.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 5:30:30 AM EDT
H&K M8  



H&K MARK23



Benelli M4



H&K MSG-90


Various sure fire lights
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