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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 11/23/2003 1:16:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/23/2003 1:17:29 PM EDT by bulldog1967]


In this image taken from video, the body of a US soldier lies on the ground in Mosul, Iraq (news - web sites) Sunday, Nov. 23, 2003. According to witnesses, gunmen shot two American soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division as they drove through the city center to another U.S. garrison, sending their vehicle crashing into a wall. Then, teenagers dragged their bodies from the vehicle and pummeled them with concrete blocks. (AP Photo/APTN)





Link Posted: 11/23/2003 1:19:58 PM EDT
I support my President, and I obviously suppoer our troops, but WTF is going on over there!!

These guys were shot by insurgents...okay, nothing new there...but then TEENAGERS from the crowd did the rest.....


I REALLY am not feeling like turning the other cheek right now.....
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 1:22:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bulldog1967:
WTF is going on over there!!


Someone will be along momentarily to question your patriotism for asking this and for making a comparison with Mogadishu.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 1:35:50 PM EDT
Wasn't mogadishu 1000+ to 23?

It takes a brave man to mutilate a corpse.


-HS
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 1:44:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By bulldog1967:
WTF is going on over there!!


Someone will be along momentarily to question your patriotism for asking this and for making a comparison with Mogadishu.



Well. being a former Marine as well that wouldn't be too smart.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 1:55:14 PM EDT
what burns me is that if they had fired at the "teenagers" they Might have been alive but then a court martial would be waiting for them IF they survived....:
"for firing onto a group of BOYS that were only tring to help "

come on ... you can see that happing right?
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 2:02:17 PM EDT
Looks like some sort of white truck that is into the wall in the second picture.

Were US Army regulars driving a *white* (and I'm going to assume) unarmored vehicle through the steets of Baghdad? Were they alone with no other supporting vehicles? No other supporting troops?

I'm losing my patience with this. Either we should fight the war to win or leave. I'm so f'ing tired of this new style of "politically correct" warfare. Our troops are getting killed needlessly.

-Gator
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 2:11:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Powelligator:
Looks like some sort of white truck that is into the wall in the second picture.

Were US Army regulars driving a *white* (and I'm going to assume) unarmored vehicle through the steets of Baghdad? Were they alone with no other supporting vehicles? No other supporting troops?

I'm losing my patience with this. Either we should fight the war to win or leave. I'm so f'ing tired of this new style of "politically correct" warfare. Our troops are getting killed needlessly.

-Gator

A-FUCKING-MEN!! this PC shit is driving me insane as well.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 2:17:55 PM EDT
What were they doing driving a white civilian truck and not in a convoy?

Was this some sort of CIA or SF thing?

This is a duplicate thread, Lumpy already started one.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 2:26:08 PM EDT
We come to help them, they repay us with brutality. To quote Colonel Kilgore "Fucking savages!"

Like in Mogadishu, we're there to help them. But unlike Mogadishu, we're not going to tuck tail and run away like pussies. Nevertheless, DU is discussing how best to pin this atrocity on Bush and blame HIM for it, instead of the murderers.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 2:47:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/23/2003 2:48:31 PM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
Make policing Mosul the KURDS responsibility.

The people who did this today STOLE Mosul from the Kurds so Saddam could have people he trusted to control those oil fields that surround that town.

Either that OR bring in the ROK Marines
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 2:57:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bulldog1967:
I support my President, and I obviously suppoer our troops, but WTF is going on over there!!



It is 4th Generation Warfare. We knew this is what was going to happen. It is a tactic that works, i.e., Vietnam, Somalia or at least appears to work if we cut and run Klinton style.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 3:07:25 PM EDT
Napalm Tirkit and Mosul, if they don't want to do as they are told then let them die.
I am finished with mercy and understanding, I want peace and safety and if all the Iraqis have to die for this then so be it.
And yes, if I was there I would be gunning down every damn one I could.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 3:19:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Make policing Mosul the KURDS responsibility.



Excellent idea....brilliant.


The people who did this today STOLE Mosul from the Kurds so Saddam could have people he trusted to control those oil fields that surround that town.


Those people are the ones who have VERY much to lose by a democratic Iraq. They're scared right now...and they should be.


Either that OR bring in the ROK Marines


I'd like to save them for Tikrit.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 3:34:09 PM EDT
The Army has got to stop treating this like it's not a war.
The tactics stink of laziness and incompetence.
Security.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 3:35:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GaryM:
Napalm Tirkit and Mosul, if they don't want to do as they are told then let them die.
I am finished with mercy and understanding, I want peace and safety and if all the Iraqis have to die for this then so be it.
And yes, if I was there I would be gunning down every damn one I could.




And get a Court-martial, Prison, and a BCD.

Your approach, is NOT, US policy....

US policy, is to sacrifice American blood, to "liberate" those who refuse to fight for it themselves.... !!!

Same old SHIT, different day....
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 3:55:12 PM EDT
BTW... Anyone hear any news about that Lt. Colonel having the disciplinary hearing because he protected his men??
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 4:03:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By StykUrHedUp:

Originally Posted By Powelligator:
Looks like some sort of white truck that is into the wall in the second picture.

Were US Army regulars driving a *white* (and I'm going to assume) unarmored vehicle through the steets of Baghdad? Were they alone with no other supporting vehicles? No other supporting troops?

I'm losing my patience with this. Either we should fight the war to win or leave. I'm so f'ing tired of this new style of "politically correct" warfare. Our troops are getting killed needlessly.

-Gator

A-FUCKING-MEN!! this PC shit is driving me insane as well.

"Political correctness"is the bag of socialistic bullshit that is put over the heads of our fighting men and women by the BAWSTOINIANS like bubba ted every time it looks like we might have a chance of winning.Mogadeeshyou is what happened when bubba bill was pres and spent all his time further defining "is"and poking c-gars up monikas twat instead of minding the store,and kicking a third world war lords ass.Look what happened there.Should have nuked from orbit.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 4:13:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
The Army has got to stop treating this like it's not a war.
The tactics stink of laziness and incompetence.
Security.



I agree.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 4:24:45 PM EDT
The military may have their hands tied, but the civilians of America don't have to answer to the DoD or any general. My personall opinion is:

1- some one should start a non-profit organization

2- collect tax deductable monies from patriotic companies and individuals who are sick of seeing our boys get the shit end of the stick

3- use this money to hire ex-military, or well trained civilians

4- send them over (and I bet you may even see some under the table sort of help from various SF or SOF guys in the area, things like advice, intel, etc. etc.)

5- Seek and Destroy. (And I'm not talking about genocide.)

Just my opinion, after I get EMT certified, I'd gladly go. And don't say, well, enlist and go. I value our military, but I don't value a lot of the people who make the decisions for the military. I'm sure you know what I mean. Just my nickel. (inflation)

Agnew out.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 4:27:37 PM EDT
well if things don't turn around soon we will have another viet nam on our hands.

our troops know what to do(win a war) but are not allowed to do it...sound like viet nam?

I'm not saying it IS a viet nam now but the running of a war from the white house is like target practice over the telephone....
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 4:28:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Conspiro-Agnew:
The military may have their hands tied, but the civilians of America don't have to answer to the DoD or any general. My personall opinion is:

1- some one should start a non-profit organization

2- collect tax deductable monies from patriotic companies and individuals who are sick of seeing our boys get the shit end of the stick

3- use this money to hire ex-military, or well trained civilians

4- send them over (and I bet you may even see some under the table sort of help from various SF or SOF guys in the area, things like advice, intel, etc. etc.)

5- Seek and Destroy. (And I'm not talking about genocide.)

Just my opinion, after I get EMT certified, I'd gladly go. And don't say, well, enlist and go. I value our military, but I don't value a lot of the people who make the decisions for the military. I'm sure you know what I mean. Just my nickel. (inflation)

Agnew out.



We have laws against what you are suggesting you know. Anti-fillibustering laws have been on the books since before the Civil War, because people did what you suggest and took private armies to Mexico, Cuba, and Canada.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 4:37:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/23/2003 4:46:03 PM EDT by Conspiro-Agnew]

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By Conspiro-Agnew:
The military may have their hands tied, but the civilians of America don't have to answer to the DoD or any general. My personall opinion is:

1- some one should start a non-profit organization

2- collect tax deductable monies from patriotic companies and individuals who are sick of seeing our boys get the shit end of the stick

3- use this money to hire ex-military, or well trained civilians

4- send them over (and I bet you may even see some under the table sort of help from various SF or SOF guys in the area, things like advice, intel, etc. etc.)

5- Seek and Destroy. (And I'm not talking about genocide.)

Just my opinion, after I get EMT certified, I'd gladly go. And don't say, well, enlist and go. I value our military, but I don't value a lot of the people who make the decisions for the military. I'm sure you know what I mean. Just my nickel. (inflation)

Agnew out.



We have laws against what you are suggesting you know. Anti-fillibustering laws have been on the books since before the Civil War, because people did what you suggest and took private armies to Mexico, Cuba, and Canada.



Did not know that. Interesting. Just out of curiosity then, what about private "security" firms that do the same thing? The privatization of military forces has been going on for years to the best of my knowledge. Also, I do remember seeing an article on a group of men, related to victims from the WTC, who went to Afghanistan to hunt for OBL themselves. What's the difference? Just curious.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 4:47:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/23/2003 4:51:49 PM EDT by ArmdLbrl]

Originally Posted By Conspiro-Agnew:

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By Conspiro-Agnew:
The military may have their hands tied, but the civilians of America don't have to answer to the DoD or any general. My personall opinion is:

1- some one should start a non-profit organization

2- collect tax deductable monies from patriotic companies and individuals who are sick of seeing our boys get the shit end of the stick

3- use this money to hire ex-military, or well trained civilians

4- send them over (and I bet you may even see some under the table sort of help from various SF or SOF guys in the area, things like advice, intel, etc. etc.)

5- Seek and Destroy. (And I'm not talking about genocide.)

Just my opinion, after I get EMT certified, I'd gladly go. And don't say, well, enlist and go. I value our military, but I don't value a lot of the people who make the decisions for the military. I'm sure you know what I mean. Just my nickel. (inflation)

Agnew out.



We have laws against what you are suggesting you know. Anti-fillibustering laws have been on the books since before the Civil War, because people did what you suggest and took private armies to Mexico, Cuba, and Canada.



Did not know that. Interesting. Just out of curiosity then, what about private "security" firms that do the same thing? The privatization of military forces has been going on for years to the best of my knowledge. Also, I do remember seeing an article on a group of men, related to victims from the WTC, who went to Afghanistan to OBL themselves. What's the difference? Just curious.



Private security firms that work for civilians are unarmed or not very well armed and must follow the laws of the nation they are operating in to be legal.

The private companies that do more than this are usually in the PAY of the United States Goverment, hence they are not bound by the anti-fillibustering laws. But they still are subject to all the international laws and treaties that the US Goverment is signatory too. They, however, can be "sacrificed" if they become embarrasing to the US Goverment, which the goverment cannot do with military personnel.

And there are some that just break the law and the US ignores it, when convienent.

Even the little operation that H. Ross Perot did to get his people out of Iran in 79' put him in violation of the fillibustering laws. The only reason he was not prosecutied was that Jimmy Carter lost the election.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 4:55:07 PM EDT
ArmdLbrl


Roger that. Thanks for the information. Still, if offered to join something like that, I'd go. Legal or not, I'd gladly go to jail if it meant I could help keep some of our boys alive and well by doing some "dirty work".
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 5:10:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/23/2003 5:11:57 PM EDT by dpmmn]
I heard this on the radio today, it is just sick!
My wife told right after that, the pacifist that she is,"why don't we just bomb the living shit out of them over there."
My reply was:
"I have no clue"

To the famlies of the men lost

I will keep you and all the others deployed in my prayers.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 5:13:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
The Army has got to stop treating this like it's not a war.
The tactics stink of laziness and incompetence.
Security.

EXACTLY...and that seems to be the mind-set over in this part of the world..."this isnt a war...the war was over months ago...now its just a PEACE KEEPING mission"....fucking baffles me...theres got to be PEACE to be KEPT before its a "peace keeping" mission right?? its not abnormal to see a buncha soldiers riding around in a toyota land criuser or a pajero,.....honestly..you see that WAY more than you see them in armored hummers. lets do what needs to be done...redub this thing a "war" get the heavies back in here..and nip this shit in the ass!!!




Link Posted: 11/24/2003 3:03:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/24/2003 3:09:31 PM EDT by GaryM]
Originally Posted By liberty86:
Originally Posted By GaryM: Napalm Tirkit and Mosul, if they don't want to do as they are told then let them die. I am finished with mercy and understanding, I want peace and safety and if all the Iraqis have to die for this then so be it. And yes, [red]if I was there I would be gunning down every damn one I could[/red].
View Quote
And get a Court-martial, Prison, and a BCD. Your approach, is NOT, US policy....
View Quote
Yeah, I know but I am not in the Army anymore and as I get older I get less tolerant of bullshit like this. I agree this would never be US policy but damnit! something has to be done and in my opinion one drop of american blood is far more valuable than their entire country.
US policy, is to sacrifice American blood, to "liberate" those who refuse to fight for it themselves.... [pissed]!!! Same old SHIT, different day.... [rolleyes]
View Quote
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 3:22:52 PM EDT
The Army shut down the Al Arabaia TV network today for "inciting murder of Americans". Seems they were reporting about this incident within in minutes of it happening. They also have been playing "Saddam Hussein" audio tapes.
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 3:24:35 PM EDT
---------------- Two soldiers were killed when hostile forces attacked the vehicle they were in on Nov. 23 in Mosul, Iraq. Killed were: Command Sgt. Maj. Jerry L. Wilson, 45, of Thomson, Ga. Spc. Rel A. Ravago IV, 21, of Glendale, Calif. --------------------- Wilson and Ravago were assigned to 1st Battalion, 502nd Infantry Regiment, 2nd Brigade 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault), based in Fort Campbell, Ky [USA]
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 3:33:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: The Army shut down the Al Arabaia TV network today for "inciting murder of Americans". Seems they were reporting about this incident within in minutes of it happening. They also have been playing "Saddam Hussein" audio tapes.
View Quote
Just for the sake of arguement, we incite killing resistance fighters and Saddam too. There has been alot of double talk going on since this stupid, bullshit war started. Either we win big, or leave and nuke the whole place on the way out. I'm sick of this bullshit, namby, pamby, "win the hearts and minds" bullshit. Where is the Iraqi body count? Why only the American body count? BTW, I posted the same pics yesterday and no one said shit.
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 3:35:00 PM EDT
OH. And the official word from the Pentagon was no one's throat was slit and there was no mutilation........ yeah right.....like I believe anything the Pentagon says anymore.....
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 3:45:36 PM EDT
It's has been long overdue, time to use psychological weapons such as the DAISY CUTTER on the problem areas.Detonate such weapon at around 300 feet or so from surface for the SHOCK & AWE effect a few minutes after dropping thousands of leaflets warning all that ALLAH is pissed.Soon THUNDER will rain down on you.Might work for awhile.
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 4:12:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By stormwalker: well if things don't turn around soon we will have another viet nam on our hands. our troops know what to do(win a war) but are not allowed to do it...sound like viet nam? I'm not saying it IS a viet nam now but the running of a war from the white house is like target practice over the telephone....
View Quote
This is SO much like Nam it stinks. The media are treating exactly that way. AB
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