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Posted: 1/25/2009 9:03:13 AM EDT
I didn't want to hijack the other thread.  Here's the question I pose to you.

If you claim to be pro-choice do you consider "partial birth abortion" to be OK in your book.

I'm thinking most (men) on this board don't really even know what it means.

http://www.priestsforlife.org/partialbirth.html

Be honest....

If you don't like my link.....google your own before you reply.


ETA:  Partial people....please
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:03:51 AM EDT
[#1]
This should be good.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:06:00 AM EDT
[#2]
Only for rape or health reasons here.

Health reasons in this case.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:06:39 AM EDT
[#3]
Only when the mother's life is endangered by the fetus, and there is no other alternative, such as induced labor.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:06:45 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Only for rape or health reasons here.



Well that would be LONG before you get to the partial stage right?


Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:07:25 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Only when the mother's life is endangered by the fetus, and there is no other alternative, such as induced labor.


Do you know what partial birth means?

Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:07:32 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Only for rape or health reasons here.



Well that would be LONG before you get to the partial stage right?




See edit.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:08:43 AM EDT
[#7]
I'll bite. I'm guessing I'm what you'd call pro-abortion, but I'd never lobby for it and I personally would never be party to it. But I'm not going to involve myself in someone's choice's, even if it is partial birth, contraceptives, etc.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:08:52 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Only for rape or health reasons here.

Health reasons in this case.


This
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:09:05 AM EDT
[#9]
I am in favor of liberals killing their own children, including by means of partial-birth abortion.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:10:29 AM EDT
[#10]
I dont think any abortion beyond the following 3 scenarios should be legal:

1) Baby risking mothers life (Should be the mothers choice).
2) Criminal actions resulting in a pregnancy (I dont think its right, but I cant see making a rape victim being forced to have a baby).
3) SEVERE, birth defects that will surely result in death to the child (NOT handicapped, autistic, or retarded children)

Beyond those three options its just selfish people puting their lifestyle before an innocent human being. They are using it as birth control.

Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:12:14 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Only for rape or health reasons here.



Well that would be LONG before you get to the partial stage right?




See edit.


Regardless, if you can safely deliver the baby's head to suck it's brain out with a vacuum only to deliver the body moments later...you could just as well deliver it alive.

I can entertain many ideas concerning where life begins and morality's place in legislation, but "partial birth" abortion is murder, period.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:12:59 AM EDT
[#12]
I can see by most of the replies so far.....most don't know what partial birth even means.

If you are saying "rape, incest mothers health....bla, bla bla.

It's pretty obvious, you don't know what it means.  

Partial Birth Abortion......"partial"  is key here people.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:14:35 AM EDT
[#13]


Quoted:


I don't think any abortion beyond the following 3 scenarios should be legal:



1) Baby risking mothers life (Should be the mothers choice).

2) Criminal actions resulting in a pregnancy (I don't think its right, but I cant see making a rape victim being forced to have a baby).

3) SEVERE, birth defects that will surely result in death to the child (NOT handicapped, autistic, or retarded children)



Beyond those three options its just selfish people putting their lifestyle before an innocent human being. They are using it as birth control.





I feel similarly, but I would include those in bold. It is cruel to allow retarded / mentally handicapped child to be born.



 
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:14:55 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
I can see by most of the replies so far.....most don't know what partial birth even means.

If you are saying "rape, incest mothers health....bla, bla bla.

It's pretty obvious, you don't know what it means.  

Partial Birth Abortion......"partial"  is key here people.


I know exactly what it means. Abortion is Abortion, no matter what stage its done. Its abortion with a different name.

People (like me) are giving our thoughtds on where it should be acceptable.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:15:04 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Only for rape or health reasons here.



Well that would be LONG before you get to the partial stage right?




See edit.


Regardless, if you can safely deliver the baby's head to suck it's brain out with a vacuum only to deliver the body moments later...you could just as well deliver it alive.

I can entertain many ideas concerning where life begins and morality's place in legislation, but "partial birth" abortion is murder, period.


Someone get it....thanks.

Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:15:08 AM EDT
[#16]
I've known very few people who are "pro abortion."  Wanting something to be a legally available option does not make one a supporter of the procedure.

Do you have link to an actual medical site that explains the indications for this procedure, or explained why and where it has been used in the past?

I find it hard to believe sorority girl Sally is waiting to that late in her pregnancy to do away with her "mistake" from her night with Ken.

What is clear to me is that the way the pro-life crowd has latched on to the "partial-birth" abortion issue is the same way the anti-gunners have latched on to the "assualt rifle" issue.  It's divide and conquer, appeal to emotion, appeal to people ignorant of the reality.

Gun owners of all people should understand the importance of avoiding emotion-driven debates to ban things about which they know little.

"Won't somebody think of the children" is a stereotype not limited to liberals.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:15:38 AM EDT
[#17]
For the health of the mother or potential loss of the mothers life

Yes absolutely.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:15:53 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't think any abortion beyond the following 3 scenarios should be legal:

1) Baby risking mothers life (Should be the mothers choice).
2) Criminal actions resulting in a pregnancy (I don't think its right, but I cant see making a rape victim being forced to have a baby).
3) SEVERE, birth defects that will surely result in death to the child (NOT handicapped, autistic, or retarded children)

Beyond those three options its just selfish people putting their lifestyle before an innocent human being. They are using it as birth control.


I feel similarly, but I would include those in bold. It is cruel to allow retarded / mentally handicapped child to be born.
 


Yet none of this has anything to do with PARTIAL BIRTH abortion (i.e., the subject of the thread).
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:15:57 AM EDT
[#19]
I can't wait for the day, pretty soon, that the government gets their way and a 15 year old can have an abortion without parental consent....even thought that same 15 year old would not be allowed to have her teeth cleaned in my office without such consent.   That will be like, totally awesome.

Oops, missed the part about partial birth...oh well....
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:16:51 AM EDT
[#20]
I'm pro-choice but not pro-abortion.  I don't consider any late-term abortion to be OK.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:16:57 AM EDT
[#21]
I'm pro-life. When I was pro-abortion, partial birth abortion is never OK.

I used to be sort of Libertian in my abortion view. My thinking was that it was a morality issue and therefore none of my business or the gov's even if my personal position was that abortion is wrong.

Now, after having kids and seeing the ultra sound of children in the womb, I realized that my Libertian position was wrong. A fetus is a child who is not fully developed and is completely helpless. Measure a great society by how it treats the weakest member. An unborn baby is the lest among us and deserves our protection.

The Liberty of choice occurs when a couple has unprotected sex. Once the fetus heart starts to beat at ~22 days, it is a child. Period.


FWIW

112
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:17:41 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
I can see by most of the replies so far.....most don't know what partial birth even means.

If you are saying "rape, incest mothers health....bla, bla bla.

It's pretty obvious, you don't know what it means.  

Partial Birth Abortion......"partial"  is key here people.


Most don't want to know and would rather stick their heads in the sand and their fingers in their ears than fight with the internal conflict it brings to many on the pro-abortion side.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:18:45 AM EDT
[#23]

I am pro-choice but against partial birth abortions.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:19:23 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
I've known very few people who are "pro abortion."  Wanting something to be a legally available option does not make one a supporter of the procedure.

Do you have link to an actual medical site that explains the indications for this procedure, or explained why and where it has been used in the past?

I find it hard to believe sorority girl Sally is waiting to that late in her pregnancy to do away with her "mistake" from her night with Ken.

What is clear to me is that the way the pro-life crowd has latched on to the "partial-birth" abortion issue is the same way the anti-gunners have latched on to the "assualt rifle" issue.  It's divide and conquer, appeal to emotion, appeal to people ignorant of the reality.

Gun owners of all people should understand the importance of avoiding emotion-driven debates to ban things about which they know little.

"Won't somebody think of the children" is a stereotype not limited to liberals.


So, which pro-choice arguments stand up to the reasoning of choice, medical necessity or relative morality where partial birth is concerned?  I submit that delivering a portion of a viable fetus in order to kill it and immediately deliver its dead body is another animal entirely when compared to any other concept of abortion.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:19:30 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
For the health of the mother or potential loss of the mothers life

Yes absolutely.


Please read the link or google....you don't even know what it means.

I wish I could abort the uneducated post.....

I'm not attacking you, just the speaking before know what you're talking about part.  I never knew until a couple of years ago.  

Nobody has ever had a partial birth to save the mother....

Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:19:39 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Only for rape or health reasons here.

Health reasons in this case.


+1.  Health reasons is just common sense.  I'm all for life, and if the chance that the mother is in danger, I'm pro her life.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:21:56 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Only for rape or health reasons here.

Health reasons in this case.


+1.  Health reasons is just common sense.  I'm all for life, and if the chance that the mother is in danger, I'm pro her life.



Partial birth is not done to save the woman.  
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:22:37 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
I'm pro-life. When I was pro-abortion, partial birth abortion is never OK.

I used to be sort of Libertian in my abortion view. My thinking was that it was a morality issue and therefore none of my business or the gov's even if my personal position was that abortion is wrong.

Now, after having kids and seeing the ultra sound of children in the womb, I realized that my Libertian position was wrong. A fetus is a child who is not fully developed and is completely helpless. Measure a great society by how it treats the weakest member. An unborn baby is the lest among us and deserves our protection.

The Liberty of choice occurs when a couple has unprotected sex. Once the fetus heart starts to beat at ~22 days, it is a child. Period.


FWIW

112


I got to see my 2nd child's heart beating on the ultrasound a couple weeks ago.  My wife was 7 weeks along.  How one feels about his own child in that position is between him and God, but I have my own convictions.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:22:39 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't think any abortion beyond the following 3 scenarios should be legal:

1) Baby risking mothers life (Should be the mothers choice).
2) Criminal actions resulting in a pregnancy (I don't think its right, but I cant see making a rape victim being forced to have a baby).
3) SEVERE, birth defects that will surely result in death to the child (NOT handicapped, autistic, or retarded children)

Beyond those three options its just selfish people putting their lifestyle before an innocent human being. They are using it as birth control.


I feel similarly, but I would include those in bold. It is cruel to allow retarded / mentally handicapped child to be born.
 


Why? Are they all miserable? Are all their families miserable? Or do they just give you the willys?


Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:23:26 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
I'm pro-choice but not pro-abortion.  I don't consider any late-term abortion to be OK.


+1
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:23:49 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Only for rape or health reasons here.

Health reasons in this case.


+1.  Health reasons is just common sense.  I'm all for life, and if the chance that the mother is in danger, I'm pro her life.



Partial birth is not done to save the woman.  


Nobody is paying attention to the subject of the OP.  Just a bunch of knee-jerk reactions.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:24:24 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't think any abortion beyond the following 3 scenarios should be legal:

1) Baby risking mothers life (Should be the mothers choice).
2) Criminal actions resulting in a pregnancy (I don't think its right, but I cant see making a rape victim being forced to have a baby).
3) SEVERE, birth defects that will surely result in death to the child (NOT handicapped, autistic, or retarded children)

Beyond those three options its just selfish people putting their lifestyle before an innocent human being. They are using it as birth control.


I feel similarly, but I would include those in bold. It is cruel to allow retarded / mentally handicapped child to be born.
 


Why? Are they all miserable? Are all their families miserable? Or do they just give you the willys?





FUCK.....I'm talking about PARTIAL BIRTH.  Most problem are identified long before the due date.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:24:27 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I can see by most of the replies so far.....most don't know what partial birth even means.

If you are saying "rape, incest mothers health....bla, bla bla.

It's pretty obvious, you don't know what it means.  

Partial Birth Abortion......"partial"  is key here people.


Most don't want to know and would rather stick their heads in the sand and their fingers in their ears than fight with the internal conflict it brings to many on the pro-abortion side.


If someone doesn't fully understand what PBA is or why it is even considered as a medical procedure, Read This.

I can only barely support PBA in a case where there mothers life is in jeopardy. IIRC, that almost never happens.

112
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:25:07 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Only for rape or health reasons here.

Health reasons in this case.


+1.  Health reasons is just common sense.  I'm all for life, and if the chance that the mother is in danger, I'm pro her life.



Partial birth is not done to save the woman.  


Nobody is paying attention to the subject of the OP.  Just a bunch of knee-jerk reactions.




Basically.


I know what it means.  I am not okay with it.  I am what most people call "pro-choice", but do not approve of abortion beyond the second trimester.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:25:33 AM EDT
[#35]
I thought that partial birth abortion was a myth made up by the Fundamental Right?
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:25:51 AM EDT
[#36]


Reasons for later abortion





  • 71% Woman didn't recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation


  • 48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion


  • 33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents


  • 24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion


  • 8% Woman waited for her relationship to change


  • 8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion


  • 6% Something changed after woman became pregnant


  • 6% Woman didn't know timing is important


  • 5% Woman didn't know she could get an abortion


  • 2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy


  • 11% Other


  •  
    Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:26:28 AM EDT
    [#37]
    If the soul leaves the body after the last breathe, then what's so weird with thinking that it enters the body with the first breathe, and that before the first breathe the fetus does not have a soul, and therefore, it isn't killing?

    Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:28:39 AM EDT
    [#38]
    Partial birth abortions....



    If the fetus is severely in jeopardy or deformed (organs on outside of body), well maybe, it depends on the extent of the deformity or critical reason.



    using it as a "I changed my mind, I don't want it" is
    Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:29:03 AM EDT
    [#39]
    After reading the article and looking at the pic of the procedure, I can't find a good reson for this to take place.
    Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:29:24 AM EDT
    [#40]
    Quoted:
    If the soul leaves the body after the last breathe, then what's so weird with thinking that it enters the body with the first breathe, and that before that the fetus does not have a soul, and therefore, it isn't killing?



    Breath or heartbeat?  Your heart can beat when you stop breathing, but not the other way around.  A fetus has a heartbeat very soon after conception.

    Let your conscience be your guide.
    Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:29:46 AM EDT
    [#41]
    Quoted:
    Quoted:
    Quoted:
    Quoted:
    Quoted:
    Only for rape or health reasons here.

    Health reasons in this case.


    +1.  Health reasons is just common sense.  I'm all for life, and if the chance that the mother is in danger, I'm pro her life.



    Partial birth is not done to save the woman.  


    Nobody is paying attention to the subject of the OP.  Just a bunch of knee-jerk reactions.




    Basically.


    I know what it means.  I am not okay with it.  I am what most people call "pro-choice", but do not approve of abortion beyond the third trimester.


    There are only 3 trimesters, so you really can't have an abortion beyond the third.
    Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:29:48 AM EDT
    [#42]
    Partial birth abortion is GRUESOME. Basically, the baby is turned around and birthed feet first, the head left inside the birth canal, then the doctor punches a hole in the back of the baby's head, and uses a suction tube to suck the brains out.
    At least thats how I understand it.
    So why don't we just make it legal for the woman to stomp a baby's head into slush, so long as it's done within like, 5 minutes of delivery? We can call it the 5 minute rule.
    Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:29:58 AM EDT
    [#43]
    Quoted:
    Only for rape or health reasons here.

    Health reasons in this case.


    That is immoral and ignores the personhood of the child.
    Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:30:06 AM EDT
    [#44]
    I'll support a woman's "right to choose" when men have a way out of an unwanted pregnancy.

    Until then, it takes two to tango. So it should be both person's decision on what to do about an "unwanted" pregnancy.

    If men can be forced to pay for a child they were "not ready" to have, than women should be forced to bear a child that they "are not ready to have".

    Plain and simple.

    There is no court in this land that will force a mother to carry the baby to term if the dad wants to raise it. But, EVERY court in this land will order said father to pay for the child, even if they didn't want the kid.

    Right now, if the couple is unmarried, it is the mother who is the one who decides to keep or abort the baby. Daddy has no input what-so-ever.


    ETA: partial birth is MURDER! There have been premies born at that stage and have LIVED!

    ETA2: My niece thinks that women who have abortions should be put in jail. I concur.
    Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:30:22 AM EDT
    [#45]
    Quoted:
    Partial birth abortions....

    If the fetus is severely in jeopardy or deformed (organs on outside of body), well maybe, it depends on the extent of the deformity or critical reason.

    using it as a "I changed my mind, I don't want it" is



    Christ....I'm gonna give up.  Please tell me how your post even applies?


    Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:31:38 AM EDT
    [#46]
    If you decide to abort, you should do so pretty fuckin' quickly.


    If you can't make up your mind within a reasonable amount of time, forced adoption.
    Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:32:02 AM EDT
    [#47]
    How late term are we talking? anytime before the kid turns 18?
    Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:32:10 AM EDT
    [#48]
    Quoted:
    Quoted:
    Quoted:
    Quoted:
    Quoted:
    Quoted:
    Only for rape or health reasons here.

    Health reasons in this case.


    +1.  Health reasons is just common sense.  I'm all for life, and if the chance that the mother is in danger, I'm pro her life.



    Partial birth is not done to save the woman.  


    Nobody is paying attention to the subject of the OP.  Just a bunch of knee-jerk reactions.




    Basically.


    I know what it means.  I am not okay with it.  I am what most people call "pro-choice", but do not approve of abortion beyond the third trimester.


    There are only 3 trimesters, so you really can't have an abortion beyond the third.


    wow.  good on you for catching that...I meant second.  
    Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:32:46 AM EDT
    [#49]
    Quoted:

    Please read the link or google....you don't even know what it means.

    I wish I could abort the uneducated post.


    I am not and never will be pro abortion in MY life but I am pro choice.

    The only time I should  have a say is when 1/2 of the genes in the pool are mine.

    Nothing uneducated about it, I am fully aware of the procedure and all it entails.  It is my opinion that health of the mother is an acceptable use of the procedure.  Whether it has been used in such cases is irrelevant.  I fully support a woman's right to choose and see this as just another attack on those rights.  You may disagree on any number of levels ranging from relious to nothing more than personal opinion.  Hell I am fine with abortion as birth control (that individuals AND their partners choice)but I have my own generalized opinions as to how late in term or developed the fetus is before it is no longer appropriate.  I could not care less about the "is it a life argument" I have no business telling a woman that she must give birth to something she does not want unless I am 1/2 of the gene pool that is cooking in her uterus.
    Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:34:06 AM EDT
    [#50]
    Quoted:
    I can't wait for the day, pretty soon, that the government gets their way and a 15 year old can have an abortion without parental consent.......



    Where have you been?  Too late...

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