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Posted: 10/3/2014 2:16:10 PM EST
One of my best friends lives in an on campus quadplex, 4 tenements w/ a common area, with a few other people we know. There are a few other these apartments around us and last week some guy got shot in the ass over a gambling debt in the quadplex across from my friend, known as the one you go to if you want drugs, gambling, or whatever vice of your choice. The shooter got picked up a few days later after the victim IDed him.

Fast forward to today, I came over to kill some time between classes. We're all sitting together in the commons area around the xbox when a hoodrat looking guy walks through the door wearing a bandanna around his face, I mean he looked like he just starred in a spaghetti western or a '90s gangsta rap video. I'd never seen the guy in my life and when I saw he was trying to pull something from inside his jacket my mind immediately jumped to revenge shooting. I went to draw and bum rushed him at the same time from about 5ft. I took him to the ground and stuck a glock in his face.

It turned out to be bag of weed in his pocket he was trying to sell and he was looking for that other quadplex I had talked about. I know CSB and I should have bladed at 45, but I just wanted some of your opinions. Maybe I should have posted this in team. I'm almost sick to my stomach right now. I almost killed a kid over bad fashion and poor sense of direction.

What could you do in that situation? What did I do wrong? Right?
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 2:19:21 PM EST
What did you do wrong? You didn't MYOB...

/GD
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 2:24:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2014 2:25:03 PM EST by DeltaElite777]
Why in the blue fuck would you close with a threat if you have a gun?

You're damn lucky you didn't get the shit stabbed out of you.

Proximity negates skill.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 2:27:08 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
Why in the blue fuck would you close with a threat if you have a gun?

You're damn lucky you didn't get the shit stabbed out of you.

Proximity negates skill.
View Quote



What this guy said.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 2:33:21 PM EST
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Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
Why in the blue fuck would you close with a threat if you have a gun?

You're damn lucky you didn't get the shit stabbed out of you.

Proximity negates skill.
View Quote


Mainly because he was 5ft from me. The common area is really more like a linen closet. With the couch/tv there really isn't a way to move around much. I figured if he had a pistol keep him from drawing it and try for a contact shot. Not the best plan, but that was what I thought of.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 2:36:18 PM EST
TL;DR

I'm going to assume you were in the wrong judging by that wall of text.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 2:37:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2014 2:37:39 PM EST by DeltaElite777]
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Originally Posted By Joker117:

Mainly because he was 5ft from me. The common area is really more like a linen closet. With the couch/tv there really isn't a way to move around much. I figured if he had a pistol keep him from drawing it and try for a contact shot. Not the best plan, but that was what I thought of.
View Quote


Get further away from things that can hurt you, not closer... especially if you have a gun. Put solid objects in between you and things that can hurt you.

The only thing that makes having to shoot somebody worse is getting gutted AND having to shoot somebody.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 2:38:15 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Hamiltbl2:
TL;DR

I'm going to assume you were in the wrong judging by that wall of text.
View Quote





I used the "Enter" button.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 2:40:09 PM EST
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Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
Why in the blue fuck would you close with a threat if you have a gun?

You're damn lucky you didn't get the shit stabbed out of you.

Proximity negates skill.
View Quote



This.

Ok to draw and tell them to freeze. Seeking cover as you draw is always good. Missing that, backing up works.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 2:41:25 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Joker117:


Mainly because he was 5ft from me. The common area is really more like a linen closet. With the couch/tv there really isn't a way to move around much. I figured if he had a pistol keep him from drawing it and try for a contact shot. Not the best plan, but that was what I thought of.
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Originally Posted By Joker117:
Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
Why in the blue fuck would you close with a threat if you have a gun?

You're damn lucky you didn't get the shit stabbed out of you.

Proximity negates skill.


Mainly because he was 5ft from me. The common area is really more like a linen closet. With the couch/tv there really isn't a way to move around much. I figured if he had a pistol keep him from drawing it and try for a contact shot. Not the best plan, but that was what I thought of.


Ah, I'll revise my statement, then.

Yes, if you are arm's length away and he hasn't gotten his weapon deployed yet, your technique is a valid one.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 2:43:09 PM EST
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Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:


Get further away from things that can hurt you, not closer... especially if you have a gun. Put solid objects in between you and things that can hurt you.

The only thing that makes having to shoot somebody worse is getting gutted AND having to shoot somebody.
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Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
Originally Posted By Joker117:

Mainly because he was 5ft from me. The common area is really more like a linen closet. With the couch/tv there really isn't a way to move around much. I figured if he had a pistol keep him from drawing it and try for a contact shot. Not the best plan, but that was what I thought of.


Get further away from things that can hurt you, not closer... especially if you have a gun. Put solid objects in between you and things that can hurt you.

The only thing that makes having to shoot somebody worse is getting gutted AND having to shoot somebody.



I discussed this in the thread where the poster had taken a pic of the kid at McD's with a pistol.

I still say that if you can snuff the draw while drawing yours it's better than to stand back and trade shots.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 2:46:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2014 2:46:42 PM EST by DeltaElite777]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876:

I still say that if you can snuff the draw while drawing yours it's better than to stand back and trade shots.
View Quote


That's a BIG "if" though... especially if you're dealing with a completely unknown possible threat.

By all means, if the BG is actively drawing a weapon, pro-active is probably your best bet if your'e that close already. But this situation, IMHO, would have been best handled by extreme retrograde mobility.

If that guy hadn't had weed on him, the OP would likely be looking at a felony rap.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 2:50:25 PM EST
What did I do wrong?
View Quote


Suggestion: Try avoidvance, stop hanging out in a known drug/crime area.



Yeah I know, you went to visit your friend.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 2:50:30 PM EST
so the guy was no threat to you, and had no weapon? you forceably took him down,
and stuck your firearm in his face?

this type of oopsie has potential to land you in prison, you should really consider
hanging out in different areas, before you become the next news cycle.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 2:59:42 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tier1bro:
so the guy was no threat to you, and had no weapon? you forceably took him down,
and stuck your firearm in his face?

this type of oopsie has potential to land you in prison, you should really consider
hanging out in different areas, before you become the next news cycle.
View Quote


That's the other problem. Under the circumstances I felt justified.

Who goes around dressed like that!? You walk into a bank in july with a ski mask don't be surprised when people think you're a robber. I doubt he was trying out for The Great Train Robbery in theater class.

Just a bad situation all around.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 3:00:53 PM EST

I think you did the right thing OP. You neutralized the threat, or what you perceived as a threat.

Now, I'd think about moving.

Anywhere kids with bandanas stroll around selling weed is a place to avoid.

Link Posted: 10/3/2014 3:02:53 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Joker117:

That's the other problem. Under the circumstances I felt justified.

Who goes around dressed like that!? You walk into a bank in july with a ski mask don't be surprised when people think you're a robber. I doubt he was trying out for The Great Train Robbery in theater class.

Just a bad situation all around.
View Quote


Common sense is most assuredly not something you can count on a cop, prosecutor, or jury having.

Link Posted: 10/3/2014 4:49:55 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tier1bro:
so the guy was no threat to you, and had no weapon? you forceably took him down,
and stuck your firearm in his face?

this type of oopsie has potential to land you in prison, you should really consider
hanging out in different areas, before you become the next news cycle.
View Quote



So, gang banger comes walking in with a mask and puts his hand in his pocket and starts to pull something out:

You gonna stand there with your thumb up your ass and your slack jaw to see if he's selling Avon?
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 4:54:36 PM EST
While it might not have been perfect you did a heck of a lot better than just sitting there.

I would hazard a guess that most people would vapor lock and just sit there. If it was a bad guy looking to shoot someone they would be sitting there palming the controller while they got shot.

You are alive and learned some stuff.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 4:59:26 PM EST
2 questions:

1: this common area is a public area?
2: his mask was covering his face like my avatar?
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 5:01:50 PM EST
i'd have done my damndest to get a gun out too. how the fuck did this dude just walk in their apartment?
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 5:04:24 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 5:19:50 PM EST

I think you did ok.
Waiting to see what he pulled out of his pocket was the worse option.
Like you said it was a bad situation all the way around.
Find better places to hang out is the lesson learned here.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 5:27:32 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Spent_Casing:
2 questions:

1: this common area is a public area?
2: his mask was covering his face like my avatar?
View Quote


1. No, policy was to keep the front door unlocked if anyone was home and didn't mind company dropping in. We were always dropping in between classes to hangout. They were more concerned about burglary than armed vandals coming in when someone was there. I think that's now changed after today.

2. Yep, black bandanna exactly like that. The high was in the mid 50's today with rain/wind, but not what I'd call balaclava weather.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 5:30:12 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Joker117:


Mainly because he was 5ft from me. The common area is really more like a linen closet. With the couch/tv there really isn't a way to move around much. I figured if he had a pistol keep him from drawing it and try for a contact shot. Not the best plan, but that was what I thought of.
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Originally Posted By Joker117:
Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
Why in the blue fuck would you close with a threat if you have a gun?

You're damn lucky you didn't get the shit stabbed out of you.

Proximity negates skill.


Mainly because he was 5ft from me. The common area is really more like a linen closet. With the couch/tv there really isn't a way to move around much. I figured if he had a pistol keep him from drawing it and try for a contact shot. Not the best plan, but that was what I thought of.

Yeah, 5 feet away doesn't give you a lot of choices.

I think you did fine, under the circumstance.

Dress like scum and end up in the wrong house is a good way to get shot.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 5:31:09 PM EST
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Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:


That's a BIG "if" though... especially if you're dealing with a completely unknown possible threat.

By all means, if the BG is actively drawing a weapon, pro-active is probably your best bet if your'e that close already. But this situation, IMHO, would have been best handled by extreme retrograde mobility.

If that guy hadn't had weed on him, the OP would likely be looking at a felony rap.
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Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876:

I still say that if you can snuff the draw while drawing yours it's better than to stand back and trade shots.


That's a BIG "if" though... especially if you're dealing with a completely unknown possible threat.

By all means, if the BG is actively drawing a weapon, pro-active is probably your best bet if your'e that close already. But this situation, IMHO, would have been best handled by extreme retrograde mobility.

If that guy hadn't had weed on him, the OP would likely be looking at a felony rap.

How do you figure that?
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 5:33:57 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ceverett:

How do you figure that?
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Originally Posted By ceverett:
Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876:

I still say that if you can snuff the draw while drawing yours it's better than to stand back and trade shots.


That's a BIG "if" though... especially if you're dealing with a completely unknown possible threat.

By all means, if the BG is actively drawing a weapon, pro-active is probably your best bet if your'e that close already. But this situation, IMHO, would have been best handled by extreme retrograde mobility.

If that guy hadn't had weed on him, the OP would likely be looking at a felony rap.

How do you figure that?


Tackling unarmed people and pointing guns at them is generally frowned upon by law types. Especially in what basically amounts to a public space like the OP describes.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 6:18:46 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876:



So, gang banger comes walking in with a mask and puts his hand in his pocket and starts to pull something out:

You gonna stand there with your thumb up your ass and your slack jaw to see if he's selling Avon?
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Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876:
Originally Posted By tier1bro:
so the guy was no threat to you, and had no weapon? you forceably took him down,
and stuck your firearm in his face?

this type of oopsie has potential to land you in prison, you should really consider
hanging out in different areas, before you become the next news cycle.



So, gang banger comes walking in with a mask and puts his hand in his pocket and starts to pull something out:

You gonna stand there with your thumb up your ass and your slack jaw to see if he's selling Avon?



walking in where? the op said he was comming into a "common area". i would assume this "common area" is
like a lounge or day room type area for residents. if the "gang banger" is a resident doesn't he have as much right
to be in the "common area". who knows why the guy was wearing a bandanna on his face, maybe he was afraid
OP had ebola

personally i wouldn't have been there in the first place after hearing OP's description.

i have no qualms with what op did, (i need something to watch on the news) just isn't how i would have handled it.
had the guy came charging, or making verbal threats, i would have good job OP, however in this case OP committed
a crime that would cost him time in my state.

Link Posted: 10/3/2014 6:20:47 PM EST
You were already half way into an armed robbery. Might as well have went all the way and took his weed and shoes.



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 6:31:10 PM EST
weather or not we agree, my point here is this. what would a jury say
if during the take down gun to face the gun fired and the other guy was
killed?

would OP spends millions on his case and walk, or would they convict.
after all the guy was unarmed, and in an open common area, not in the
OP's house like some here have said.

what if the other guy would have defended himself against the OP?

the OP has now said is was 50's outside. to me that is jacket wearing time,
and if i had to spend time out in that i would wear something to cover my nose
and mouth.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 6:32:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2014 6:33:16 PM EST by ceverett]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:


Tackling unarmed people and pointing guns at them is generally frowned upon by law types. Especially in what basically amounts to a public space like the OP describes.
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Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
Originally Posted By ceverett:
Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876:

I still say that if you can snuff the draw while drawing yours it's better than to stand back and trade shots.


That's a BIG "if" though... especially if you're dealing with a completely unknown possible threat.

By all means, if the BG is actively drawing a weapon, pro-active is probably your best bet if your'e that close already. But this situation, IMHO, would have been best handled by extreme retrograde mobility.

If that guy hadn't had weed on him, the OP would likely be looking at a felony rap.

How do you figure that?


Tackling unarmed people and pointing guns at them is generally frowned upon by law types. Especially in what basically amounts to a public space like the OP describes.

I got the impression it was his living room.... If not, I withdraw my statement.

ETA: Or common space/semi-private space shared by known residents, but not really public space. If a public space, yeah, OP overreacted.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 6:37:01 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ceverett:

I got the impression it was his living room.... If not, I withdraw my statement.

ETA: Or common space/semi-private space shared by known residents, but not really public space. If a public space, yeah, OP overreacted.
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Originally Posted By ceverett:
Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
Originally Posted By ceverett:
Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876:

I still say that if you can snuff the draw while drawing yours it's better than to stand back and trade shots.


That's a BIG "if" though... especially if you're dealing with a completely unknown possible threat.

By all means, if the BG is actively drawing a weapon, pro-active is probably your best bet if your'e that close already. But this situation, IMHO, would have been best handled by extreme retrograde mobility.

If that guy hadn't had weed on him, the OP would likely be looking at a felony rap.

How do you figure that?


Tackling unarmed people and pointing guns at them is generally frowned upon by law types. Especially in what basically amounts to a public space like the OP describes.

I got the impression it was his living room.... If not, I withdraw my statement.

ETA: Or common space/semi-private space shared by known residents, but not really public space. If a public space, yeah, OP overreacted.


I apologize for the confusion. I used the term "common area" as a space shared by all residents. You have to pass through it on the way to your individual rooms. However, it is not open to the public, except in this case when the door was unlocked.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 6:37:46 PM EST
What?
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 6:39:41 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Jimbo45:
What?
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What part?
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 6:44:35 PM EST
MS Paint?
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 6:54:37 PM EST
I'd say last week's shooting + proximity to cooperating witness (against people willing to shoot over money) + bandanna over face = a reasonable concern for your safety.

Link Posted: 10/3/2014 7:01:42 PM EST
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Originally Posted By tier1bro:
weather or not we agree, my point here is this. what would a jury say
if during the take down gun to face the gun fired and the other guy was
killed?

would OP spends millions on his case and walk, or would they convict.
after all the guy was unarmed, and in an open common area, not in the
OP's house like some here have said.

what if the other guy would have defended himself against the OP?

the OP has now said is was 50's outside. to me that is jacket wearing time,
and if i had to spend time out in that i would wear something to cover my nose
and mouth
.
View Quote



LOL. Yeah/No.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 7:03:12 PM EST
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Originally Posted By tier1bro:


the OP has now said is was 50's outside. to me that is jacket wearing time,
and if i had to spend time out in that i would wear something to cover my nose
and mouth
.
View Quote

Link Posted: 10/3/2014 7:13:10 PM EST
i wore an under armor ski mask under a helmet every game i played when i was cold.

i also live in florida 365 days a year 50's, wind, and rain is freezing to me. maybe that's
warm to some guys.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 7:19:04 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Eight_Ring:
I'd say last week's shooting + proximity to cooperating witness (against people willing to shoot over money) + bandanna over face = a reasonable concern for your safety.

View Quote



how does that factor in with two guys who were not involved in that.

was the guy with the jacket associated with the shooter or shootee?
can you just tackle a guy and stick a gun in his face because he looks
suspicious?

a reasonable concern for safety, would have been to not play xbox next door
to a drug den where a shooting occured last week. OP didn't live there he was
visiting.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 7:25:24 PM EST
Oh HELL yeah, in on one.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 7:27:36 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Joker117:


What part?
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Originally Posted By Joker117:
Originally Posted By Jimbo45:
What?


What part?


The whole thing.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 8:17:24 PM EST
Needs moar throwdown piece.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 8:22:42 PM EST
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Originally Posted By GrandfatherCoyote:
What did you do wrong? You didn't MYOB...

/GD
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this
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 8:26:37 PM EST
it would be no different than an unknown person bursting into any apartment with more than one bedroom. "common" to the apartment meaning all rooms have their own locks, but it's technically the living room. that about right? someone busted into my living room i'd be pretty freaked out too. i dont understand how OP committed a felony there.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 10:27:37 PM EST
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Originally Posted By tier1bro:



how does that factor in with two guys who were not involved in that.

was the guy with the jacket associated with the shooter or shootee?
can you just tackle a guy and stick a gun in his face because he looks
suspicious?

a reasonable concern for safety, would have been to not play xbox next door
to a drug den where a shooting occured last week. OP didn't live there he was
visiting.
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Originally Posted By tier1bro:
Originally Posted By Eight_Ring:
I'd say last week's shooting + proximity to cooperating witness (against people willing to shoot over money) + bandanna over face = a reasonable concern for your safety.




how does that factor in with two guys who were not involved in that.

was the guy with the jacket associated with the shooter or shootee?
can you just tackle a guy and stick a gun in his face because he looks
suspicious?

a reasonable concern for safety, would have been to not play xbox next door
to a drug den where a shooting occured last week. OP didn't live there he was
visiting.


I guess I'm just a Nancy, but if I see a hoodrat-looking fellow approaching me with a mask over his face and his hand goes into his pocket, I'm goinna tend to assume the worst and draw down.

Body-language and context is everything, of course--but as a general rule, masked urban youth's aren't offering anything I want to buy.

YMMV.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 10:57:29 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Joker117:


Mainly because he was 5ft from me. The common area is really more like a linen closet. With the couch/tv there really isn't a way to move around much. I figured if he had a pistol keep him from drawing it and try for a contact shot. Not the best plan, but that was what I thought of.
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Originally Posted By Joker117:
Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
Why in the blue fuck would you close with a threat if you have a gun?

You're damn lucky you didn't get the shit stabbed out of you.

Proximity negates skill.


Mainly because he was 5ft from me. The common area is really more like a linen closet. With the couch/tv there really isn't a way to move around much. I figured if he had a pistol keep him from drawing it and try for a contact shot. Not the best plan, but that was what I thought of.


Your plan was good.
Link Posted: 10/4/2014 12:51:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2014 12:56:23 AM EST by SIRIUS1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876:


Ah, I'll revise my statement, then.

Yes, if you are arm's length away and he hasn't gotten his weapon deployed yet, your technique is a valid one.
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Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876:
Originally Posted By Joker117:
Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
Why in the blue fuck would you close with a threat if you have a gun?

You're damn lucky you didn't get the shit stabbed out of you.

Proximity negates skill.


Mainly because he was 5ft from me. The common area is really more like a linen closet. With the couch/tv there really isn't a way to move around much. I figured if he had a pistol keep him from drawing it and try for a contact shot. Not the best plan, but that was what I thought of.


Ah, I'll revise my statement, then.

Yes, if you are arm's length away and he hasn't gotten his weapon deployed yet, your technique is a valid one.



Agreed, I have done the same before, if he has alreadly indexed and began to draw what is perceived to be a weapon contact to prevent to completion of the 'draw' is the best option.

You may or may not successfully out draw him, seeing that he has a started his or evade him, but you, when that close, can definitely impede the completion of his draw and "convince" him otherwise to play nice.

In my opinion, you chose well, now that you have a new 'friend' remember to watch your back.





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