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Posted: 3/15/2018 4:01:58 PM EDT
Looking through pics and reports of the Miami bridge collapse got me thinking about the management of that incident. So besides the obvious scene safety, get more responders/resources on the way, and begin triage of who you can get to, how do you start working an incident like that? I guess command would be calling in heavy equipment, and begin going slow (safe) and steady, but what else am I not thinking of?

Just a FF1 here beginning to learn more about incident command on the fly.
Link Posted: 3/15/2018 4:43:27 PM EDT
You have it right with calling for heavy rescue resources immediately. You also would call in an estimated amount of additional resources such as ambulances and fire engines based on an estimate of how many patients you see already. It's all fluid though based on each individual MCI.
Link Posted: 3/15/2018 5:59:05 PM EDT
I'm on the LE side, but I would expect that Fire would be the command of the on scene rescue and recovery. My side would do mostly traffic and scene security (unless requested to aid in the physical recovery or triage) until the scene was released to the investigating authority. In some fatal industrial and construction related accidents, we have obtained the contact info for witnesses and taken the initial statements of the witnesses as well, which we have provided to the investigating authority (like OSHA). I would say this as just a thought, somebody not tied up in the rescue efforts may consider getting some good overall photos or videos of the accident scene as soon as possible, while not delaying the rescue. A helicopter completing some air video or pics may help the investigating authority reconstruct what pieces were where and in what position before the rescue and recovery got them moved, cut or dismantled. But again, this would be simultaneous to the rescue and not delay it.
Link Posted: 3/15/2018 6:21:45 PM EDT
and of course the ICS would line out the different branches too, I do have that part in mind. Just thinking the first on scene type of approach.

There is an EMS conference somewhat local to me next month where one of the Chiefs that was at the Las Vegas shooting is going to be presenting on a few different topics, pretty sure I'll be signing up for that.
Link Posted: 3/15/2018 7:14:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/15/2018 9:05:38 PM EDT
Not directly related to the OP's question....just a general observation here:

Fire departments typically do a very good job of incident command. PDs and SOs typically do a horrible job of incident command. I work for a good agency but when we train for major incidents, we do incident command pretty well. When a major incident happens in real life, we have too many "chiefs" running around instead of setting up a solid incident command like we should be.
Link Posted: 3/16/2018 9:53:34 AM EDT
Something like that, don't forget hospital notification so they can put their own disaster plans into place. We shouldn't just be showing up on their doorsteps with 50 patients and saying "SURPRISE!!!"
Link Posted: 3/16/2018 10:28:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2018 10:44:51 PM EDT by apcapt]
Preface all the below with the fact that most of us were attending a funeral for one of our Lt.'s that passed 1 County North. It was the typical movie scene with everyone's pagers/phones lighting up. Once our Brothers casket passed those that needed to respond did so

We use NIMMS for everything.

-1st unit was an ALS transport (ours carry firefighting equipment). However unit officer happened to be a suppression Captain working OT and he's highly experienced and capable.
-5 workers on top of the bridge were the immediate accessible patients. Oh btw just so happened that the head Trauma Doc. from the nearest Trauma center was riding on the unit. They do that from time to time.
-MCI level 1 was declared by the first unit. With OIC calling for additional resources for the confirmed visible vehicles pinned.
-Nearest Battalion is housed at same house transport unit is. He arrived seconds later, assumed/transferred command and NIMMS mushroomed from there.
-Established initially were IC, OPS, Medical, Transport, Staging, TRT/Search, Hazmat (lock out/ Tag out construction site). Once the assignment was filled out and the world seemed to be there(60ish FD units on scene), Incident Command was moved to our mobile command post. While in Rescue mode FD is in charge, once it became a recovery PD takes over. PD had a liaison in our command post and a Unified command started forming as reps. arrived. Also FIU has a Emergency Mgmt. school with the school having multiple resources. Once we transitioned from rescue to recovery everything moved to PD's command trailer. We had our trailer on site but did not place it into service.

Yes Op's in and around any collapse are highly controlled and Hot/Warm/Cold zones were established immediately.
Our Heavy 60 Ton Rotator arrived early on as they were training down the street. Part of the investigation by PD includes all construction personnel and equipment on scene. So that equipment should "not be used". That's a discussion for later.
Once it moves to recovery everything slows down even more.

Always think risk vs. reward, operate safely using your training and experience you attain. The above is a brief explanation of what went down.

Be Safe.
Link Posted: 3/16/2018 11:18:59 PM EDT
apcapt, thank you for taking the time to give us that info.
Link Posted: 3/17/2018 12:17:47 PM EDT
Thanks for the run down.

As I told another member in a PM, I know this was kind of ''too soon'' timing for the specific topic, but Ive been meaning to throw some "how would you ..." type scenario topics out there for discussion and now lately my focus has been starting to shift to the officer level and I’ve been becoming increasingly aware of how much some of this stuff doesn’t get used until you finally need it.
Link Posted: 3/19/2018 12:05:41 AM EDT
As a first arriving unit you would be declaring the MCI to start obviously. Getting an idea on a number of patients, identifying (as best you can) whether it appea red to be a natural or man made (bomb) patient generator. Establishing initial command. One of the big factors that seems to be very important and overlooked is designating ingress and egress for incoming units. A scene like this 1 minute of good thought process can greatly alter the overall operation in keeping units from getting jammed up on scene. Contacting regional medical control is also important. Start a good triage. Get a good treatment and transport sector set up. A lot goes on very early. The biggest thing is calling for the right resources early.
Link Posted: 3/26/2018 8:20:24 PM EDT
I skimmed the thread, but a question to you in regards to your jurisdiction: Are you capable of of handling the incident with just your jurisdiction? I am a VFF in the footprint of the City of NY. FDNY (combined with NYPD elements) are capable of a job of that magnitude on their own. However in the surrounding areas, we deal with matrix responses for certain types of incidents.

Any major natural disaster, HazMat, large plain crash, major structural collapse, any TRT, etc, the matrix can be activated. For example, a major HazMat incident will get up to 3 HazMat Response teams, and several Devon team. If the TRT Matrix is activated, all TRT teams will be alerted to respond to quarters, and (depending on severity) certain ones will respond, while others will remain on standby until conclusion.

If the incident is large enough, the FDNY can and will be mutually aided, and you will get the appropriate response. It’s rare, but there have been jobs here, that were handled in large part to the FDNY. The matrix response is a great tool, especially if your department is a smaller department without the resources that others have.

Obviously with any MCI incident, as others have stated, the NIMS ICS comes into play, and can truly help in the incident. Accountability in today’s world is huge, and allocation of those resources key. Staging area managers, safety officers, and section chiefs should all be designated. If everyone does their job, it takes that large picture and shrinks it down to a more manageable piece.
Link Posted: 3/26/2018 9:06:16 PM EDT
I am a Asst Chief on a medium rural combo department, our capability as far as heavy rescue is limited. But as a county we have done pre-planning for many scenarios including heavy rescue collapse. We have several construction companies that we would call in to help with equipment. The first call officer(Lt/Capt) or Chief or myself would activate a Yellow Response (technical/heavy rescue) which calls more engines, ambulances and call back for paid departments. This is handled by county dispatch, we would also have a MCI created on OHTRAC(state MCI patient tracking) which would alert hospitals. Our EMA director would respond and put up his drone for an aerial view of the incident. It would be a full county response at least due to limited resources, it would also hit some of the border departments to us.

County Response:
Red Response-large structure/commercial (ladders from 3 departments, engine or pumper/tanker from each department with manpower, rehab and air truck)
Green Response-HAZMAT (county hazmat team activation, nearest county hazmat trailer response)
Blue Response-Swiftwater/Dive team(county swiftwater/dive team response)
Yellow Response-technical/heavy response (3 heavy rescues, 1 ladder and 2 ALS ambulances)

This is just to give you some idea of how we would handle it.
Link Posted: 3/26/2018 11:06:14 PM EDT
You know, hazmat was one dynamic I was wondering about. Our big city department (200k population 20 minutes away) that responds to calls in our area (town of 14k, associated 560sq mile county), I’d imagine would be an asset in some scenarios even if not a full on spill or leak was associated. Most of our structures are old enough that asbestos and even just plain old airborn dust, fertilizer and other airborne contaminates could be a consideration.
Link Posted: 3/26/2018 11:16:32 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By sefus:
You know, hazmat was one dynamic I was wondering about. Our big city department (200k population 20 minutes away) that responds to calls in our area (town of 14k, associated 560sq mile county), I'd imagine would be an asset in some scenarios even if not a full on spill or leak was associated. Most of our structures are old enough that asbestos and even just plain old airborn dust, fertilizer and other airborne contaminates could be a consideration.
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