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Posted: 10/26/2010 5:43:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2010 5:48:06 PM EDT by DOW]
This past Sunday Mrs. DOW, myself, and the DOW progeny were driving through Litchfield County, Ct. looking for a place to relocate to when my commitment to my current employer expires. We had driven through the Towns of Litchfield, Bantam, Torrington and a few others when we arrived at New Milford. I almost crashed when I spotted the piece of classic armor pictured below...

I recognize it as an M3 Stuart from reading too many issues of "The Haunted Tank" comic as a kid, but which variant, etc is beyond me. I'm intrigued by the bright weld metal at the top turret seam - any insight?

Somebody or some organization has taken great pains to restore or maintain this tank as it's in beautiful condition.

Not the beefiest looking vehicle I've ever seen up close - clearly a 7.5cm PAK or worse an 88 would slice through this tank like a hot knife through butter.

Enjoy.













Link Posted: 10/26/2010 5:45:47 PM EDT
Very cool!!!!
I've become especially interested in tanks as of late.
Wish I could afford an old surplus one
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 5:47:35 PM EDT
pretty cool but i'm glad i'm not charging the germans in it
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 5:47:45 PM EDT
Cool find.
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 5:48:23 PM EDT
Cool.
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 5:50:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2010 5:52:49 PM EDT by sprayandpray]
I used to work and live a block from there ....


Litchfield couty is EXPENSIVE to live in , but New Mildew is a decent enough town

Live ther elong enough and you will run into Winona Rider in the grocery store (probably shoplifting) ,

unless she moved in the last 5 years , which is a possibility
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 5:52:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cossa:
pretty cool but i'm glad i'm not charging the germans in it

i wouldn't charge the germans in the best the allies had

The Panzer IV was better than most Allied tanks. Let alone the Panther, Tiger, King Tiger, and all the other crazy shit they had. If 80% of their guys weren't busy fighting the Russians we would have been fucked.
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 5:55:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2010 6:10:28 PM EDT by Ming_The_Merciless]
Originally Posted By sprayandpray:
I used to work and live a block from there ....


Litchfield couty is EXPENSIVE to live in , but New Mildew is a decent enough town


That M-3 is quite the "Honey" of a find!

(Brits referred to their M-3s used in North Africa as the "Honey" as it was fast and reliable (unlike most British tanks of the period)

I've always loved the M-3, even though it wasn't much of a "tank" (hate to face the Germans in it - Although it could hang against the Japanese tanks which sucked through most of the war.

Had one at Camp Mabry in Austin (Texas Military Forces Headquarters) for the World War Two reenactment a couple of years back. It is powered by a 9 cylinder aircraft radial engine and makes a unique sound!

EDITED

They also had one at the National Museum of the Pacific War that was destroyed by a Japanese Anti Tank Gun - Ouch!!

Link Posted: 10/26/2010 5:59:36 PM EDT
I wonder if that's just an old weld but with a high nickle content rod.
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 6:16:24 PM EDT
Don't know much about tanks, but Isn't it a bad idea to have it sitting out in the weather? That thing looks to nice to let the elements destroy it. But whoever owns it can do whatever the hell they want to with it.
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 6:25:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteelonSteel:
I wonder if that's just an old weld but with a high nickle content rod.


most likely a relatively fresh paint chip that hasn't had time to corrode yet. that is a beautiful weld!
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 6:28:45 PM EDT
There is also a nice example sitting in front of the CMP headquarters at Camp Perry.
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 6:29:38 PM EDT
Just about any anti tank weapon of WW 2 would take one out. Thats why it was a recon tank. Its 37mm gun was to small to pack an effective HE shell and it sure wouldn't penetrate the frontal armor of any German main battle tank at any distsnce.

It was hoever fast and relaible and many variants were made. It worked well against other light vehicles (armored cars and such) and since it was tracked it had much better cross country performance.
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 6:32:39 PM EDT
There is a Stewart sitting in front of the VFW Hall in Crewe, VA as well.
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 6:33:51 PM EDT
Meh. Every Army installation has at least one on display. Death trap.
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 6:35:52 PM EDT
Cool
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 6:36:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 6:38:36 PM EDT
I live in Bethel so I'm like 20 minutes away- that tank has been there since I was a teenager 30+ years ago.

If you want to see some other cool armor take a ride to the Military Museum located in Danbury, CT
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 6:44:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2010 6:44:53 PM EDT by Denwad]

Originally Posted By cableguy221:
Originally Posted By Cossa:
pretty cool but i'm glad i'm not charging the germans in it

i wouldn't charge the germans in the best the allies had

The Panzer IV was better than most Allied tanks. Let alone the Panther, Tiger, King Tiger, and all the other crazy shit they had. If 80% of their guys weren't busy fighting the Russians we would have been fucked.

The Sherman with the regular 75 was about equal to the Panzer IV, they could pretty much take each other out at identical ranges.

The Sherman with the 76 could take on Tigers.
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 6:45:13 PM EDT
Just looks like all the paint came off as one piece, old weld or new. Nice bead on it, anyway.
cool pics.
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 6:47:52 PM EDT
Actually that is stainless steel weld bead.
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 6:51:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By VaFarmBoy:
There is a Stewart sitting in front of the VFW Hall in Crewe, VA as well.


Saw that one a few times. Used to go thru Crewe some many moons ago. Played in a gospel band and we used to go to the Cornerstone Coffeehouse in Crewe to play. We also played and hung out at a church over towards Blacksburg(?) I think that used to have a big brunwsick stew cooking each year for their homecoming. That was back in the late 70's, early 80's.
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 6:58:42 PM EDT
Could someone Link up the Haunted Tank comics they were my favorite ...
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 7:07:43 PM EDT
I actually got to speak with a WWII vet at Camp Mabry who rolled in Stuarts during the War. He had really good things to say about them as recon and screening vehicles...basically they were twice the weapon a Bren Gun Carrier was and were often used in the same role.

There is an awesome diorama of a WWII tank battle at Mabry, and if you look closely you can see the Stuarts.
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 7:13:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Nice.

I know of a few M5 Stuarts for sale if someone wants one- they run around $225,000-$275,000.


There used to be one for sale years ago, at a surplus store not too far from here. IIRC, they wanted something like $25,000 for it, but it was missing the engines and a lot of the interior parts.
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 7:17:52 PM EDT
Cool

Only if we had a military vehicle forum here on ARFCOM...


Maybe wa can...
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 6:12:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2010 6:13:54 AM EDT by Ming_The_Merciless]
Originally Posted By Denwad:

Originally Posted By cableguy221:
Originally Posted By Cossa:
pretty cool but i'm glad i'm not charging the germans in it

i wouldn't charge the germans in the best the allies had

The Panzer IV was better than most Allied tanks. Let alone the Panther, Tiger, King Tiger, and all the other crazy shit they had. If 80% of their guys weren't busy fighting the Russians we would have been fucked.

The Sherman with the regular 75 was about equal to the Panzer IV, they could pretty much take each other out at identical ranges.

The Sherman ( x 5 ) with the 76 could take on Tigers.


Even with the 76 gun, the Sherman could not penetrate the front of either the Tiger or Panther. Only side or rear shots could knock them out. The standard U.S. Tactic was for several Shermans to rush the German tank from both flanks knowing that they would lose some of their own (sucked to be a U.S. tank crewman in Europe going in a Sherman against Tigers or Panthers) but hopefully someone would make it to get to the flank to make the shot that counted.

Think "Saving Private Ryan" when they formed teams to rush the Machine gun nest - They got it but took casualties to do it.
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 6:23:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2010 6:28:00 AM EDT by jmarkma]
Didn't they use stainless electrodes to weld on the armor in some cases?

ETA: Apparently using stainless allows the welding of hardened steel without pre-heating otherwise there would be stress induced cracking.

Continuing my research concerning this application I found a study performed in Australia 1996 that found the use of a fully austenitic stainless steel consumable less prone to hydrogen induced cracking in the hardened HAZ areas when welding armor plated materials. They used an AWS A5.9 ER310 electrode with 98/2 Ar/O2 shielding gas. They also used an AWS A5.18-79 ER70-S6 with 75/25 Ar/CO2 that would not produce cracking only if they preheated the armor plate to a certain temperature prior to welding. The stainless steel electrode needed no preheating of the armor plate prior to welding and produced no cracking. After reading this article I concluded that my customer’s idea of using a stainless steel electrode could be to reduce the likelihood of hydrogen induced cracking in the hardened HAZ areas. I would appreciate your comments on this finding.


The type of filler metal used to weld US armor during the war was variously described as "18-8" (18% Cr, 8%Ni) or 308 SST. Stainless steel filler metal was the only readily available type that had a low enough hydrogen content to weld armor without causing cracking. As an austenitic stainless steel it was weaker than the armor. The armor was essentially an air-hardening steel so the normal cooling after welding was sufficient to quench the steel back to (or nearly so) the original properties.

Be careful with that "inquiring minds" stuff . . . There are people on here who will deliberately NOT respond to messages with that expression, out of protest.

KL
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 6:28:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ming_The_Merciless:
Originally Posted By Denwad:

Originally Posted By cableguy221:
Originally Posted By Cossa:
pretty cool but i'm glad i'm not charging the germans in it

i wouldn't charge the germans in the best the allies had

The Panzer IV was better than most Allied tanks. Let alone the Panther, Tiger, King Tiger, and all the other crazy shit they had. If 80% of their guys weren't busy fighting the Russians we would have been fucked.

The Sherman with the regular 75 was about equal to the Panzer IV, they could pretty much take each other out at identical ranges.

The Sherman ( x 5 ) with the 76 could take on Tigers.


Even with the 76 gun, the Sherman could not penetrate the front of either the Tiger or Panther. Only side or rear shots could knock them out. The standard U.S. Tactic was for several Shermans to rush the German tank from both flanks knowing that they would lose some of their own (sucked to be a U.S. tank crewman in Europe going in a Sherman against Tigers or Panthers) but hopefully someone would make it to get to the flank to make the shot that counted.

Think "Saving Private Ryan" when they formed teams to rush the Machine gun nest - They got it but took casualties to do it.
The exception to this was the British VC Firefly variant with the QF 17 pound gun. This variant was a true Tiger killer.

Link Posted: 10/27/2010 6:37:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2010 6:39:39 AM EDT by bluduk15]
From what I've seen in a few other threads, the welds were made with a high nickel steel rod or stainless steel. Apparently, they had a hard time welding high carbon steels (like armor plate) without producing cracks.

So, they used materials with more ductility like stainless. You can see from the pic below that these welds hold up really well to corrosion, which would explain the "newness" in your pic.



(Note shiny welds in corner from Sherman in lagoon in Saipan)

More discussion here: http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=39685


Link Posted: 10/27/2010 6:38:36 AM EDT
Now I'm homesick... I lived in New Milford for several years. Very nice town, and I saw that Stuart every day going to and from work.

Thanks for the pics
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 8:48:13 AM EDT
I read an account of a Stuart that got into a fight with a Tiger II and won. The Tiger couldn't maneuver and the Stuart could. The Stuart crew kept plugging away with the 37mm and moving at the same time. The Tiger couldn't traverse the turret fast enough to get on target and the Stuart finally got around behind it and put a round through the engine and set the Tiger on fire.
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 8:53:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By redleg13a:
I read an account of a Stuart that got into a fight with a Tiger II and won. The Tiger couldn't maneuver and the Stuart could. The Stuart crew kept plugging away with the 37mm and moving at the same time. The Tiger couldn't traverse the turret fast enough to get on target and the Stuart finally got around behind it and put a round through the engine and set the Tiger on fire.


I bet those guys had a pucker factor off the scale.
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 8:58:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cableguy221:
Originally Posted By Cossa:
pretty cool but i'm glad i'm not charging the germans in it

i wouldn't charge the germans in the best the allies had

The Panzer IV was better than most Allied tanks. Let alone the Panther, Tiger, King Tiger, and all the other crazy shit they had. If 80% of their guys weren't busy fighting the Russians we would have been fucked.


That Sherman does not look like much of a match against what the Germans had. I think we should have done a better job by giving the tank corps the best - or at least a lot better than that.

I hope that, if tanks ever matter again, ours turns out the be the very best.

Is it? (Primorsky's opinion does not count. Too biased).

Link Posted: 10/27/2010 9:18:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 9:54:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CBR900:
Originally Posted By cableguy221:
Originally Posted By Cossa:
pretty cool but i'm glad i'm not charging the germans in it

i wouldn't charge the germans in the best the allies had

The Panzer IV was better than most Allied tanks. Let alone the Panther, Tiger, King Tiger, and all the other crazy shit they had. If 80% of their guys weren't busy fighting the Russians we would have been fucked.


That Sherman does not look like much of a match against what the Germans had. I think we should have done a better job by giving the tank corps the best - or at least a lot better than that.

I hope that, if tanks ever matter again, ours turns out the be the very best.

Is it? (Primorsky's opinion does not count. Too biased).



The problem was our doctrine back then. Tanks were not intended to fight other tanks. Our armor was to be used to support the infantry and exploit breakthroughs. Tank destroyers had the job of taking on enemy armor. The tank destroyer concept was flawed in many ways. One, we had both towed and tracked tank destroyers. The towed guns were 37mm, 57mm, 3 inch and 90mm anti-tank guns. These could not keep pace with a mobile offense. The tracked guns were 75mm on an M3 half-track (didn't last long), M10 Wolverine with 3 inch gun, M18 Hellcat with 76mm gun and the M36 Jackson with the 90mm gun. The tank destroyers were open topped and had thin armor. They were very vulnerable to airburst artillery. The tank destroyers were meant to destroy enemy tanks with a more powerful gun than our armor carried and outrun what they couldn't outfight. Unfortunately, they could not stand up to the German armor and could not act as tanks either.

Our armor had no choice but to fight German tanks, unfortunately, they were all to often outmatched. The M4 Sherman was the equal to the Panzer MkIV and superior to the MkIII and earlier tanks. Unfortunately, when the Germans came out with the long-barreled 75mm for the MkIV, the Sherman was outgunned from that point forward. It got worse when the Tiger I and Panther came out and worse still with the Tiger II. The 75L38 gun had a very good HE round but the AP was not up to taking on the Panthers and Tigers. The gun did not generate enough velocity to overcome the think frontal armor on the German tanks. It could penetrate the sides and rear but stood no chance on the front. The long barreled 76mm stood a better chance of penetrating the Tiger I and Panther but not the Tiger II. The American crews had to get dangerously close to the Germans to achieve penetration as well.

The 90mm M36 was a very good gun and could deal with the Tiger I and Panther. It had a tougher time with the Tiger II but still was better than anything else except maybe the British 17 pounder. The Americans finally got a decently armored and armed tank with the M26 Pershing but it's mobility was its handicap. It could go head to head with a Panther and win but it could still be penetrated by the Germans, just not at as long of range.
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 9:55:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2010 9:57:41 AM EDT by 161Infantry]
Used to read a comic book in the 1970s early 80s....about a crew in such a tank, had the ghost of some Confederate general that followed it around as I recall....always thought they looked cool...
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 10:09:00 AM EDT
we have a stewart tank at our machinegun shoots.cannon works and has machineguns mounted and working.It has a indentation for a thomphsom subgun as you go down the hatch.
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 10:10:50 AM EDT
I wonder if our guys could hear the laughter coming from the German Behemoths when they rolled into battle in that tiny tot tank.
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 10:14:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jmmoney:
I wonder if our guys could hear the laughter coming from the German Behemoths when they rolled into battle in that tiny tot tank.
I imagine it beat a wool GI shirt......I imagine that Command didnt send these up against German Heavys if they could help it...

Link Posted: 10/27/2010 10:19:55 AM EDT
Was this the tank that the Marines had in Guadalcanal in '42? I've read accounts of them using tanks in battles with the Japanese but don't recall seeing what type they were.
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 10:26:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 161Infantry:
Originally Posted By Jmmoney:
I wonder if our guys could hear the laughter coming from the German Behemoths when they rolled into battle in that tiny tot tank.
I imagine it beat a wool GI shirt......I imagine that Command didnt send these up against German Heavys if they could help it...


Dunno about it beating the shirt. You can't burn to death after taking a direct hit in a wool shirt.
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 10:30:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2010 10:33:52 AM EDT by TacticalMOLONLABE]

Originally Posted By gordo99:
Was this the tank that the Marines had in Guadalcanal in '42? I've read accounts of them using tanks in battles with the Japanese but don't recall seeing what type they were.
They had M3 and M2A4s







http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Guadalcanal
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 10:32:16 AM EDT
When I was younger it was my greatest ambition to spray paint "Wolverines!" on that tank.

Fuck the Green Wave. Go Bobcats.
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 10:37:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GrahamD:
When I was younger it was my greatest ambition to spray paint "Wolverines!" on that tank.

Fuck the Green Wave. Go Bobcats.

Glad you didn't

I believe that is the original paint
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 10:41:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jmmoney:

Originally Posted By 161Infantry:
Originally Posted By Jmmoney:
I wonder if our guys could hear the laughter coming from the German Behemoths when they rolled into battle in that tiny tot tank.
I imagine it beat a wool GI shirt......I imagine that Command didnt send these up against German Heavys if they could help it...


Dunno about it beating the shirt. You can't burn to death after taking a direct hit in a wool shirt.
It wouldnt matter if it did...dead is dead......the tank atleast would protect from most sharpnel, which is the largest cause of casualties..

Link Posted: 10/27/2010 10:43:23 AM EDT
Are the local libtards still trying to have this 'evil death machine' removed from the green? When I lived there it seemed like they tried it once a year or so.
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 10:43:34 AM EDT
It took some nads to fight the Jerrys in that tin can. Nice find. Never seen one. We have a Sherman here in town though.
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 10:45:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 10:45:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Blackhawk101:
I live in Bethel so I'm like 20 minutes away- that tank has been there since I was a teenager 30+ years ago.

If you want to see some other cool armor take a ride to the Military Museum located in Danbury, CT

I completely agree. Good folks and all kinds of obscure stuff.

http://www.usmilitarymuseum.org/

Also, welcome to the area should you decide to relocate. I lived in NM for a few years and it does have some nice areas. Bantam, with the lake, is quite nice as well.
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 10:47:30 AM EDT
I lived like two miles from that tank for over 18 years and had no idea I should have posted a pic thread on ARFCOM
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