Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 5/6/2001 9:48:53 PM EST
Just wondering... did we lose any M1's during the Gulf War? How did we lose them? From friendly fire? Fire from Iraqi MBT's? ... shoulder fired anti-tank weapons?
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 10:04:47 PM EST
Funny you should ask, I have a friend who was one of those tankers. From what I remember him saying [and I can ask him again] there were zero M1's lost. He referred to it as a "turkey shoot" as he said they had NO night vision and they were hitting them [with D.U. rounds] from record breaking distances. He said that typically they engage other tanks at 200-300 meters but because they were unseen they could often fire from distances as far as 3000 meters. He said they didn't know when it came or where it came from. LOL!
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 3:29:47 AM EST
I don't know about casualties from Iraqi fire, but I read about one M1 that was somehow disabled in combat, either from a mine, an artillery shell or just mechanical problems.
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 4:40:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/7/2001 4:47:36 AM EST by Ross]
While I don't kow the exact statistics, you have to remember that the DOD doesn't report statistics the same as you or I. A tank, Aircraft, etc is not lost if it can be recovered. So we could have had 50 tanks blown to bits by T-72s and as long as all of them were recovered by maintenance, we didn't loose a one. This method of record keeping has been standard since Vietnam. As long as a helicopter, or even a jet fighter's dataplate was recovered, the aricraft wasn't considered lost. It makes things look better in the press. Be very wary of any figures generated by the military when it comes to combat loses. That's not to say Misterhemi's buddy is lying, he's not an official DOD source. I would tend to belieive him over the official party line. I have heard of no M-1s that were even disabled by enemy fire. Given our history of usually killing more of our own troops than the enemy does throughout our history, I would not be suprised to find out that one or more M-1s were rendered "combat ineffective" by fratricide (so called friendly fire). Ross
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 4:48:24 AM EST
No M1A's lost to Iraqi fire.I dont think any to friendly either.I do remember a couple of Bradley's gettin nailed from friendly fire though.
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 4:55:00 AM EST
One of the rules of "murphy's law" is "Friendly fire,isn't."
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 4:57:43 AM EST
True.Just like in Cahill.It was just a friendly fight.I aint never been in one of those.
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 5:03:32 AM EST
Tom Clancy says in his book ARMORED CAV not one M1 was put out of action by direct enemy fire. A few were disabled by anti tank mines and had to have tracks and wheels replaced. Only M1 crewman was killed, a tank commander standing in his hatch when the fuel and ammo exploded inside an enemy vehicle he had just knocked out. In one instance described in the book, a M1 became stuck and was attacked by three Iraqi tanks. Although hit multiple times, it knocked out all three attackers. Ordered to abandon the stuck M1, it took multiple point blank shots from other M1's to pentrate the armor on the turret. Even then, the tank was recovered, the turret replaced, and the M1 was returned to action.
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 5:48:47 AM EST
I believe there were 18 combat losses. Most of those were recoverable. Nine were from friendly fire, most of the rest by mines. At least two were hit by enemy fire. Some clever bad buys turned off their engine and let the 1st armored division sweep through at night. The IR did not pick them up. Then they turned on their engine and whacked two M1A1s from the rear. There is a book about the first armored division in that war available at discount book stores right now. Despite what the media presented, there were plenty of intact Iraqi units in being after the air campaign. The US Army had to defeat some largely intact tank divisions. Despite faily even numbers, our superior tanks and training produced a massacre.
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 5:50:36 AM EST
I read there was an M1A disabled by a mine. It was taken back and fixed. They missed the Turkey shoot.
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 12:49:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By imposter: At least two were hit by enemy fire. Some clever bad buys turned off their engine and let the 1st armored division sweep through at night. The IR did not pick them up. Then they turned on their engine and whacked two M1A1s from the rear.
View Quote
An engine will still be radiating enough heat to be seen via IR or TI for at least 4 hours after shutting it off.
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 1:01:31 PM EST
From what I understand we lost one M1A1 during the war and it was due to friendly fire, another M1A1. I can remember watching CNN with other members of our unit at FT.Knox and there was a interview where a individual made the statement that the M1's armor had been penatrated by the 120mm round of the other tank. Our CO said that guy had just made a big mistake by saying that because the ARMY doesnt want anyone knowing that our armor can be defeated by our own rounds. The way they think about it is that the Russians must have rounds with the same capabilites has our own, so if we can defeat the armor then they must be able to also.
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 1:10:27 PM EST
The M1A1 doesnt use IR for the Gunners station. It used a TIS(Thermal Imaging System)for night firing and when I went through TC school they were teaching that the TIS was the primary siting system as well. There is NO way to turn off your engine and let the M1's pass and then shoot them. That tank is one huge heatsink and will hold heat long enough for the sun to come back up and heat it again. While in the ARMY we would sleep on the rear deck of our M1's to stay warm at night. It would still be putting out enough heat to keep you warm when you got up at say 0500.
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 6:20:52 PM EST
Wow! Either the M1 is one bad-as* tank or the Iraqi's were totally inept. I saw a documentary of the Gulf War and a veteran stated that the Allied equipment and the Iraqi equipment was in the whole equivalent. I wouldn't go that far. But if the Iraqi's had contemporary Soviet/Russian armor then it would be safe to say that we would have creamed the Russians if WWIII would have happened. (Assuming of course we had total air superiority like we did in the Gulf and it remained a conventional war.) I doubt that the Soviets were ever as well/heavily trained as our troops.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 1:11:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By Ka - Lick: Wow! Either the M1 is one bad-as* tank or the Iraqi's were totally inept. I saw a documentary of the Gulf War and a veteran stated that the Allied equipment and the Iraqi equipment was in the whole equivalent. I wouldn't go that far
View Quote
Our stuff was so much better than theirs, it was laughable. I mean, those things looked like friggin' toys next to ours! Their "bad-ass" T72s weighed in at right around 40 tons, and when you consider that the majority of a tank's weight is armor, well, there's only 1 way to cut that much weight. Yes, they weren't as big as ours, but I don't see 20+ tons of difference there. I don't know where you're located, but if you ever get the chance go to Ft Stewart GA and right inside the "main gate" (take gen. Screven Way through Hinesville) is the Desert Storm museum. I'm not sure if the same vehicles are there due to the 24th Inf Div (Mech) being inactivated and the 3rd Inf Div being moved to Ft Stewart, but seeing what those Iraqis and Russians had to face us in almost makes you feel sorry for them. It's no wonder the Israelis kick the Arabs' asses every time there's a fight, even with most of Israel's tank force being made of M60s and Centurions dating from the 50s!
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 2:56:43 PM EST
The book I mentioned, “Iron Soldiers,” by Tom Carhart (1994), mentions at least four M1s lost to enemy fire. The first, Delta 24 of 1-37 Armored, was hit from the rear in the turret ring by a lurking cold T-72, hidden in the bushes. A couple of the crewmen were badly injured. The second, Bravo 23 of 1-37 Armored, was hit in the rear by a bypassed T-72. The crew thought the first hit in the rear grille doors was by a mine; the second hit blew through the rear armor and detonated 30+ main gun rounds. Because of the blast compartment, the crew were unharmed! Two other tanks from C (“Cobra”) company of the same battalion were hit from the rear and put out of action. Some of the crew were wounded. Another M1 went to the rear, and picked up on its thermals the cold T-72 and a BMP hidden in some bushes. It toasted both vehicles. The wounded crewmen jumped onboard the tank. All these losses were from the same battalion in the First Armored Division. After the war, they counted 56 T-72s and 94 BMPs destroyed in or near 1-37's path. In the book, this information is found in pages 250 to 265.
Top Top