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Posted: 10/29/2006 2:47:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2006 2:45:43 PM EST by fxntime]
OK, I looked at this rifle a month or so ago. It is all original, even has the correct rear sight. It looks not to have been rebuilt or if it did, it received all Whinnie parts. In VG to excellent condition. I mean it's really really nice. Well the guy called friday night and I just got the message so I called him back. He said he'd take $800 which includes some ammo [older he has not had it out in 38 years] and 3 mags. For $800 should I grab it up? The BBL is in perfect shape BTW.

I think I had offered $700 or $750 last time I talked to him. I need another gun like I need a hole in my head but I don't see really nice carbines much anymore.

OK looked at it closely, here is what I have.

Stock Z marked inside. [sorry about the cartoushes, I had looked at several rifles that week]

Handguard A marked

Dished bolt with W on right lug
Op Rod H stamped
BBL W marked flaming bomb on right side,G on bottom by poppet and 8 on bottom by chamber. BBL has extremely good rifling and no pitting.
Safety SW marked push type
Trigger Hsg marked 85 on bottom W on right side, machined not brazed
Hammer W marked
Trigger W marked
Lug that holds receiver in rear W marked
No bayo lug
Flip sights S marked left side
SN# 13127xx.

Has NOT been refinished, has typical crappy Winchester machining on receiver.

Stock has the longer on bottom snout about 3/4 past the clamp [same as my IBM]

I got one box of 40 year old 110 grain HP ammo with 6 rounds missing, guy said thats all he ever shot it. [wife actually used it for hunting once and zero was checked, thats all it was ever fired since he bought it.

Has sling and oiler, 30 rounder several 20s [GI] [he found 2 more]and a 5 round one.

So, should I get it for $800 tomorrow? Sound pretty original? I did not have all that much luck on the web looking for info. My search fu sucks obviously!
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 2:54:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By fxntime:
OK, I looked at this rifle a month or so ago. It is all original, even has the correct rear sight. It looks not to have been rebuilt or if it did, it received all Whinnie parts. In VG to excellent condition. I mean it's really really nice. Well the guy called friday night and I just got the message so I called him back. He said he'd take $800 which includes some ammo [older he has not had it out in 38 years] and 3 mags. For $800 should I grab it up? The BBL is in perfect shape BTW.

I think I had offered $700 or $750 last time I talked to him. I need another gun like I need a hole in my head but I don't see really nice carbines much anymore.


If that unit is as pristine as you say, you should have had it home, photographed, and posted pics of it by now. Jump on it fast. That's my all time favorite toy and you are gonna love it.

I'm waiting for tomorrow nights pics. Don't let me down.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 2:56:13 PM EST
If it really is all original, and I am very doubtful it is, and in VG to EX condition then hell yes it is worth that much. If it is just a mixmaster rebuild then it sounds high to me.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 2:57:37 PM EST
We need pics. Look for marking on the stock as well.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 2:58:55 PM EST
A Winchester M1 if it is rebuilt and in that good shape it is worth more than $800… if it is not a rebuild and original parts it is worth much, much more than $800

Either way buy it.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 3:00:40 PM EST
Make sure its not marked "Blue Sky Imports" or "CAI" under the barrel behind the front sight or under where the op rod rides.

And, if it has a bayonet lug, its probably a rebuild. The bayonet lug didn't come out until after the war.

Check barrel date behind the front sight.

Flat bolt or round bolt?

All kinds of things to check before dumping that much.

Good luck!
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 3:01:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 3:01:31 PM EST by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By bookertbab:
If it really is all original, and I am very doubtful it is, and in VG to EX condition then hell yes it is worth that much. If it is just a mixmaster rebuild then it sounds high to me.


Even mixmaster non-import Winchesters in VG or better condition are going for more than $800 now.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 3:20:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By stoner63a:
Make sure its not marked "Blue Sky Imports" or "CAI" under the barrel behind the front sight or under where the op rod rides.

And, if it has a bayonet lug, its probably a rebuild. The bayonet lug didn't come out until after the war.

Check barrel date behind the front sight.

Flat bolt or round bolt?

All kinds of things to check before dumping that much.

Good luck!


Original type sights, no bayo lug, W marked BBL no import stamps. Really nice cartouche on stock, not been refinished. I spent about 2 hours looking it over a while back and it seemed to be correct as to the parts. It has not been dinked with, and I don't think it was rebuilt [I know most were] as all the parts I could check were Winchester.

The guy bought it for his wife for hunting, it was used once 38 years ago [did not work well against deer with th ammo he used]and it has set in his safe ever since except for him taking it out and cleaning it every so often.

I have seen very very few in this nice of shape, the wood could use some cleaning but thats about it. If he's had it for about 40 years I don't think it could be an import. The guy does NOT need the money, he has some fantastic old cars [a barn full in fact] and probably 250K in auto memoralbilia alone. Nice older guy who's kids could care less about dads firearms.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 3:21:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By bookertbab:
If it really is all original, and I am very doubtful it is, and in VG to EX condition then hell yes it is worth that much. If it is just a mixmaster rebuild then it sounds high to me.


Even mixmaster non-import Winchesters in VG or better condition are going for more than $800 now.


+1

Can you get a hold of it, take it home, take pics and post them before you buy? We can help you much more gooder if we have pics.

All advice here is good, but I say: As long as it's not an import (as described above) BUY IT! Also, many of these had the bayo lugs installed by the armories so to me, that's not a big deal for $800.00.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 3:34:20 PM EST
Buy it now or give us the contact info so one of us can buy it

Seriously, it sounds like a great deal.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 3:38:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By ReelVirginian1861:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By bookertbab:
If it really is all original, and I am very doubtful it is, and in VG to EX condition then hell yes it is worth that much. If it is just a mixmaster rebuild then it sounds high to me.


Even mixmaster non-import Winchesters in VG or better condition are going for more than $800 now.


+1

Can you get a hold of it, take it home, take pics and post them before you buy? We can help you much more gooder if we have pics.

All advice here is good, but I say: As long as it's not an import (as described above) BUY IT! Also, many of these had the bayo lugs installed by the armories so to me, that's not a big deal for $800.00.


It's a little trip away from me but I think I'm going to get it, it's been a while since I looked at it but from what I could see it was all Winchester marked on the parts that are suposed to be. [I did some checking when I got home from looking at it]It's nicer then some that are for sale for 2x as much. I have a nice IBM one but this one is nicer then that. I'll give the guy a call and try to pick it up tuesday night after work.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 3:39:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By JC_:
We need pics. Look for marking on the stock as well.


Stock was correct for Winnie's. Not refinished and VVG cartouches.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 4:09:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By fxntime:

Originally Posted By JC_:
We need pics. Look for marking on the stock as well.


Stock was correct for Winnie's. Not refinished and VVG cartouches.


There are several types of US GI Carbine stocks. I cut high wood, High wood, low wood and potbelly. Which was it?
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 4:11:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By ReelVirginian1861:

Originally Posted By fxntime:
OK, I looked at this rifle a month or so ago. It is all original, even has the correct rear sight. It looks not to have been rebuilt or if it did, it received all Whinnie parts. In VG to excellent condition. I mean it's really really nice. Well the guy called friday night and I just got the message so I called him back. He said he'd take $800 which includes some ammo [older he has not had it out in 38 years] and 3 mags. For $800 should I grab it up? The BBL is in perfect shape BTW.

I think I had offered $700 or $750 last time I talked to him. I need another gun like I need a hole in my head but I don't see really nice carbines much anymore.


If that unit is as pristine as you say, you should have had it home, photographed, and posted pics of it by now. Jump on it fast. That's my all time favorite toy and you are gonna love it.

I'm waiting for tomorrow nights pics. Don't let me down.



+1

What's the holdup???
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 4:20:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By pv74:

Originally Posted By ReelVirginian1861:

Originally Posted By fxntime:
OK, I looked at this rifle a month or so ago. It is all original, even has the correct rear sight. It looks not to have been rebuilt or if it did, it received all Whinnie parts. In VG to excellent condition. I mean it's really really nice. Well the guy called friday night and I just got the message so I called him back. He said he'd take $800 which includes some ammo [older he has not had it out in 38 years] and 3 mags. For $800 should I grab it up? The BBL is in perfect shape BTW.

I think I had offered $700 or $750 last time I talked to him. I need another gun like I need a hole in my head but I don't see really nice carbines much anymore.


If that unit is as pristine as you say, you should have had it home, photographed, and posted pics of it by now. Jump on it fast. That's my all time favorite toy and you are gonna love it.

I'm waiting for tomorrow nights pics. Don't let me down.



+1

What's the holdup???


Nah, he's not going to sell it to anyone else, I got the feeling that the only reason he called me back [he's never sold a gun before] was because I'm a car guy and he took me thru his museum and showed me all his stuff and I was suitably impressed. [I was BTW, he had some cool stuff including a pristine MGTD.] I really was not expecting a call back, but he did and I doubt he will sell to someone else. He was just a guy I met who was raffling off a Vette for his car club.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 2:52:22 PM EST
More info added, hope it helps!!!!!
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 3:50:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2006 3:53:17 PM EST by JC_]

Should be a mid to late 1943. Any date on the barrel? If not, no biggie, both are correct.


Trigger housing is correct. Are there vertical Groves in the magwell?

The rear site is correct if the "S" looks kinda like a 5 - flat lines, not curved.

The recoil plate sounds right. Could be a type A or B.

The Safety should have a checkered push button - Type A

The Hammer should be a type A or B - should look like it has a "dogleg" in it.

The trigger sounds good.

The hammer should be a type A or B with the W on the left side.

The Oprod is actually called the Slide with carbines and it should be a type B or C with a W in it. H does not show up in the book I have handy. Don't let this bother you yet, some of the manufactures swapped parts as needed. I have a book at the office that lists who sent who what. If you get a chance, verify the letter and get a pic of the slide if you can.

The Handguard should be marked W and should be a type 2 (two rivets with a slight taper towards the front) No biggie for the same reasons as above.

The stock should be a type 2 (oval cut oiler hole, not I) high wood. No marks in the sling well. There should also be a "P" on the bottom of the pistol grip. Where is the "Z"? Any chance it could be something else? Again, no worries if it doesn't match. These parts as you know got swapped all over the place. An all original carbine, with all matching parts is probably a resto job or that one in a thousand that never really went anywhere. Either way, it sounds good to me.

I think its probably worth it. I would like to know if there are any markings in the barrel band. Even if this is a restored carbine, the parts are easily pushing $800 on the collector market. I would love to see some detailed pictures.

If you have a fax, I can Xerox and send you a few pages of info on the carbine you have.

HTH, JC
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 5:15:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By JC_:
Should be a mid to late 1943. Any date on the barrel? If not, no biggie, both are correct.


Trigger housing is correct. Are there vertical Groves in the magwell?

The rear site is correct if the "S" looks kinda like a 5 - flat lines, not curved.

The recoil plate sounds right. Could be a type A or B.

The Safety should have a checkered push button - Type A

The Hammer should be a type A or B - should look like it has a "dogleg" in it.

The trigger sounds good.

The hammer should be a type A or B with the W on the left side.

The Oprod is actually called the Slide with carbines and it should be a type B or C with a W in it. H does not show up in the book I have handy. Don't let this bother you yet, some of the manufactures swapped parts as needed. I have a book at the office that lists who sent who what. If you get a chance, verify the letter and get a pic of the slide if you can.

The Handguard should be marked W and should be a type 2 (two rivets with a slight taper towards the front) No biggie for the same reasons as above.

The stock should be a type 2 (oval cut oiler hole, not I) high wood. No marks in the sling well. There should also be a "P" on the bottom of the pistol grip. Where is the "Z"? Any chance it could be something else? Again, no worries if it doesn't match. These parts as you know got swapped all over the place. An all original carbine, with all matching parts is probably a resto job or that one in a thousand that never really went anywhere. Either way, it sounds good to me.

I think its probably worth it. I would like to know if there are any markings in the barrel band. Even if this is a restored carbine, the parts are easily pushing $800 on the collector market. I would love to see some detailed pictures.

If you have a fax, I can Xerox and send you a few pages of info on the carbine you have.

HTH, JC


The rear sight S is straight lined like a 5 and it has a V grove for one sight, typical peep for the other. Oval cut oiler, no marks in sling well. Handguard slight taper, 2 rivets, but definately an A inside it. Z or maybe flipped N inside stock receiver cutout. did not see any vertical grooves in the magwell, just the straight cuts above the mag release. BTW mag release is marked W inside mag well. Safety is not checkered and the SW is on the left side button, not enough wear on the gun to have worn off any checkering. "Maybe" the H in the slide is a C or maybe a 4. Saw no marks on the BBL band, and it has 2 spot welds on the top right and left. The front sling holder looks as if it was stamped out of one piece of flat sheet [like 1/8th inch stock] and rolled where the bolt goes thru. I did not see any P on the stock but it does not look like it's been refinished. Hammer is doglegged and W on left side.

The guy who owns it is no gun guy, really mostly a hunter [there is a difference to me], I really don't think he even knew how to take it apart. Like I said, he's had it almost 40 years, and shot it last 38 years ago. The ammo box and ammo helps back that up as this is OLD stuff for sure. The BBL is not dated anywhere I could see. It has not been reparked and the front sight looks like the typical rough winchester machining tho the BBL itself is well finished.

Unfortunately, I don't have a fax at home.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 6:34:09 PM EST
PICTURES!!!!!!!..........FOR GODS SAKE!!!!........PICTURES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 6:50:57 PM EST
one of the best way to see if a carbine was arsenal refinished is to check to see if the hole for the recoil spring is drilled thru. the hole did not go thru when new, they drilled them thru when they refinished to make it easier to get the park solution in and out of the hole
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 7:00:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2006 7:00:53 PM EST by pv74]

Originally Posted By TUMOR:
PICTURES!!!!!!!..........FOR GODS SAKE!!!!........PICTURES!!!!!!!!!!!!!


+1

Buy it before he changes his mind.

Had a budy of mine who tried to sell me a gorgeous nickled S&W M27.
He offered it time and time again to me for over five years...
One day, I called him and told him I would take it....he backed out of the deal

Link Posted: 10/31/2006 1:32:36 PM EST
Ok, picked it up today, there IS a W on the inside bottom right side of the lip of the handguard and a W on the bottom inside of the slide. It just had soot on it. The oiler is marked SW on the cap and there is a PW [I think, very faint] in an oval about 2 inches behind the W stamped on the BBL. Got it for a bit less then I originally said.

I'm borrowing my sisters electronical camera tomorrow so I will try to post some pics. It's looking good as far as pretty darn correct tho, I THINK.

It does not look like it has ever been refinished.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 1:34:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By scotty1911:
one of the best way to see if a carbine was arsenal refinished is to check to see if the hole for the recoil spring is drilled thru. the hole did not go thru when new, they drilled them thru when they refinished to make it easier to get the park solution in and out of the hole


Not drilled thru, I had the whole thing apart save for the trigger assy.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 4:20:32 PM EST
High wall stock BTW.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 4:33:56 PM EST
I have just a simple question:

WHERE ARE THE FRIGGEN PICTURES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 4:36:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By fxntime:
High wall stock BTW.


Thief…

You stole one big time if it turns out to be original parts. I have see original Winchester carbines selling recently for in excess of $2000.

In other words it may not be a shooter but a high value collector rifle so make sure of what you have before shooting it.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 4:37:27 PM EST
If he doesn't buy this and post pictures, I say we hunt him down like a dog and make him listen to John Kerry speeches until he cracks.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 4:42:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By Will-Rogers:
If he doesn't buy this and post pictures, I say we hunt him down like a dog and make him listen to John Kerry speeches until he cracks.


HEY!!! I bought it, OK? I'm going to pick up my sisters electronical camera tomorrow and try to post pics. I am still stuck in the 35 MM era as digital cameras SUCK at taking action shots and sports and such.

I have to break down and buy one myself but I just bought myself a computer that could handle pics a couple months ago and I use saved cash not credit cards for stuff like that.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 5:24:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2006 5:27:31 PM EST by thedoctors308]
Nvmind.

PICS!
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