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Posted: 7/12/2001 4:35:48 PM EST
which do u prefer and why?
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 4:44:17 PM EST
M16 AR15 They are my choice we're American!!
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 4:44:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/12/2001 4:46:19 PM EST by Greg3]
Geeesh oh peat! here we go again! Give me the M16/AR15. Why? cause I like the idea I have a weapons platform I can change into anything I want within reason. The AK? huh, it will always shoot the same cal and that's it. Don't get me wrong the thing rocks. But I want my over priced m16/AR any day!
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 4:47:47 PM EST
depends what am i using it for?
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 4:58:46 PM EST
I'd go with the AR15/M16 for the platform (as already stated by Greg3.) However, I classify the AK74 and it's predecessor in the same category as the Glock pistols - they are basically the hammers of firearms: If you accidently drop it you won't start to cry (you just pick it up, scrape off the dirt and get back to business,) and it will do it's job under the most adverse conditions.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 5:09:09 PM EST
Whick one of the guns would you use in a battle situation. I personally would go with the AKS-74 because it has all the essentials 1.Folding stock for portability 2. Low recoil do to the the excellent compensator. 3. Unsurpassed reliability in any conditions. 4. The accuracy of the rifles is fine for what it is being used for killing people not praire dogs.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 5:43:27 PM EST
Uh, Mao would take an AK-102 in .223 round for better wounding potential. I would also put a KAC rail system on it, along with a reflex sight. The AK is by far more reliable than the M-16 for a foot soldier. Of course, the G 36 is superior to both [sniper] . themao [chainsawkill]
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 5:50:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 5:50:40 PM EST
The .223 round has passed the torch on to 5.45x39 round as the best military cartridge
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 5:54:11 PM EST
I would take an M-16, but I wouldn't feel underarmed with an AK-74 Wouldn't this be a great country if we could buy both off the rack for the same prices as their SA versions?
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 6:02:57 PM EST
adaptability, convertability, parts availability...m16/ar15
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 6:08:16 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 6:11:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By Sweep: Two words---[b]spare parts[/b]. You figure it out. [img]http://www.ncsg.org/topohat-small.jpg[/img]
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spare parts for an AK-74 are not that hard to find. AA-OK, K-VAR and Arsenal USA carry all parts for kalisnikovs, including receivers and barrels. not to mention nfa parts. and spare parts are cheap compared to AR-15 parts. 5.45 an underated cartridge that deserves more attention than it recieves.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 6:13:42 PM EST
I love my M16. I added a fore grip & can dump the entire mag on target. Hard to do with the AK series. 100% reliable too.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 6:16:29 PM EST
I'd take an M4 over a Krinkoff any day,however the air tipped bullet does make me think other wise...Humm...
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 7:09:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By MGNiko: I love my M16. I added a fore grip & can dump the entire mag on target. Hard to do with the AK series. 100% reliable too.
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Eh, have you shot an AK74? The muzzlebrake is incredible! It's in my opinion the easiest stock gun to keep on target.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 7:12:35 PM EST
I've had both (in semi-auto postban versions) and prefere the AR15 for several reasons. First off is the modular aspect of the AR15. Many barrel lengths, barrel weights, match triggers, sight systems, etc. The AK74 can be converted to a short barreled version, but not by me! Secondly, the 5.56Nato is superior to the 5.45x39. Shoots flatter 3150fps vs. 2900 More accurate in surplus form. (5.45 ain't bad either though) And most importantly, the 5.56NATO has better killing power from fragmentation. Tumbling is nice, and the air-tip certainly helps, but the 5.45 doesn't fragment. Permanent wound channels of both M193 and M855 are greater than the 5.45 My only other gripes was the lack of a blot hold open device, non-drop free mags, and a mag release that must be operated by the weak hand. I did like the SAR-2's light weight, very low recoil, unquestionable reliability but the AR15/M16 is still superior in my book.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 7:28:27 PM EST
I own a an AR-15 and a Romanian version of the ak-74 (semi-only) without a brake. I don't think the recoil of either gun is that bad. I would have to say it depended on the fight. One of the things I have to give the kalashnikov is that there are no really small parts that you have to take out while cleaning. So in a really dirty messy, environment, I would choose the AK. But the truth is, I would not feel bad having either. They are both excellent designs and excellent weapons, kinda turns to a Ford versus Chevy thing. Both do the job well.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 8:31:59 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 12:21:37 AM EST
Ever consider full auto at the average windshield of an auto, you had better if you live in an urban situation, or ever have to fight urban warfare! The 5.56mm will almost always richoet off (except with shorty bbl M-16 because of keyhole effect), but the 7.62x39 eats right through. This is also the base with most tempered glass at even the slightest angle! Go back in those memory banks, to the shooting in Calif. where the two perps were armed to the teeth, and wore body armor, see the one who attempted to shoot through the wind screen of the auto at the police, lucky for those police this perp did not know what I just informed you of, because they would have perished right then and there, instead they did the ole under the car trick, at perps ankle's and feet, which by the way always works! I could present many more arguements, but I do have the choice of either, or, and love both! Choose your arms carefully, and learn what they can, and can not do, for your life, and the lives of your loved ones may depend upon your knowledge!
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 3:04:10 AM EST
F*CK the AK!....I love my AR/M4 [img]www.gunsamerica.com/upload/976109980.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 3:45:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By andreusan: Go back in those memory banks, to the shooting in Calif. where the two perps were armed to the teeth, and wore body armor, see the one who attempted to shoot through the wind screen of the auto at the police, lucky for those police this perp did not know what I just informed you of, because they would have perished right then and there, instead they did the ole under the car trick, at perps ankle's and feet, which by the way always works!
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...always works, huh? Is this something you do often?[:E]
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 10:27:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By biochem: The .223 round has passed the torch on to 5.45x39 round as the best military cartridge
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I call B.S. The 5.56 has better ballistics than the 5.45x39. . . . Oh, you said the .223. My bad.[:D] Anyway, I'll take my AR any day.[heavy]
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 11:33:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By Major Murphy:
Originally Posted By andreusan: Go back in those memory banks, to the shooting in Calif. where the two perps were armed to the teeth, and wore body armor, see the one who attempted to shoot through the wind screen of the auto at the police, lucky for those police this perp did not know what I just informed you of, because they would have perished right then and there, instead they did the ole under the car trick, at perps ankle's and feet, which by the way always works!
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...always works, huh? Is this something you do often?[:E]
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Is this Maj. Murphy at I believe the 1/101 CAV?
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 1:18:34 PM EST
The AR15, of course! (Although I would really like to have a HK G36 Carbine instead of either. [img]http://www21.brinkster.com/debogator/g36k_sm.jpg[/img] [img]http://www21.brinkster.com/debogator/g36comp.jpg[/img] Tyler
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 5:31:06 PM EST
I'd have to go with the AK-74. The AR is a fantastic weapon to use as a recreational firearm but reliability has always been an issue. Sure, some work fine for many thousands of rounds but I have seen more than my fair share just not work. The AK-74 has earned a very good reputation for continuing the pace of reliability set by the AK-47. Also it seems that quite a few of the newtered AK-74's currently imported seen to close the accuracy gap between the AR series weapons and the AK's.
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 5:50:04 PM EST
i prefer the ak-74m. i have had the pleasure of firing many full auto weapons (thanks to good friends!), and the one shoulder fired assault rifle that i can keep a mag dump on target is the '74. the combination of relatively low powered round and excellent compensator (not the crappy imitations...the com-bloc original, with the large primary expansion chamber) yield great control. in semi, follow up shots are faster than my ar's...just less muzzle jump and felt recoil. the $250 sar-2 makes a great starting point to build a '74 on. btw, there is over 5 million rounds of military (bulgarian and russ) ammo nearly ready to release from u.s. customs impound for sale to 5.45 fans. pre-orders are being taken now. to balance my opinions, i did just get my legp m4...heheh!
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 5:56:57 PM EST
Campyclones & ChiefThunder ammo/mags[:D] life is good.
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 6:06:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/14/2001 5:13:15 AM EST by CAMPYBOB]
[img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/013/Zm/OG/pU/IX57745.jpg[/img] just as black and modern looking (ok...heheheh...so the basic design is 54 years old! lol!) as anything. it's reliable as all get out and the lack of recoil (about 2/3rds the joules of energy developed by a 20"a2) make scoping the normally too short on eye relief ak a no-brainer.
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 12:40:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By tylerdurden1201: The AR15, of course! (Although I would really like to have a HK G36 Carbine instead of either. [img]http://www21.brinkster.com/debogator/g36k_sm.jpg[/img] [img]http://www21.brinkster.com/debogator/g36comp.jpg[/img] Tyler
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Ever consider the high sights on these rigs can lead to excessive cant, at fairly short ranges?
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 3:29:54 AM EST
I dont like the sights on the AK and appreciate the AR s light weight.
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 10:38:24 AM EST
I know it wasn't a choice, but I'll take my M-14sa any day over either. It reaches out with combat accuracy much farther than either (useful under desert, open plains, arctic). Punches through what will stop or deflect the others and is reliable under the worst circumstances.
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 3:05:16 PM EST
As much as I love my AR, the AK series is the most reliable battle rifle in existence. If I needed a weapon to go "bang", I would grab this one. Accuracy, while oviously not AR standards, is more than acceptable. Anybody who says the AR is more reliable than a AK, is just plain deceiving themselves.
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 3:45:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/14/2001 3:43:07 PM EST by McUZI]
Damn you CampyBob.... I have a SAR2, and was all happy with it in it's stock configuration....Every time I see your damn gun, I geet the urge to trick mine out... Damn CampyClone..... Allright dude... I know you have done it a B_I_L_L_I_O_N times, but could I have a parts list for the Campyclone?...Oh yeah...Is that a AA-OK non threaded brake, or did you use a threaded sight base and a Surplus brake?? Damn campyclone...I ALWAYS WANT ONE every time I see one...
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 4:17:39 PM EST
damn! i am indeed honored and humbled! the guys on ar15com have heard of the "campyclone"? wow! wait 'til i tell the guys on ak-74.net! lol!!! (my speach, accepting this honor) "...and in conclusion, someday i hope to be as famous as ed avila sr.!" ok...a parts list eh? let's see...give me a few minutes to hit k-var's website and compile the shopping list. to all you avowed ar shooters, you really should beg, borrow or rent some time on an ak-74. in some respects, they are actually more fun to shoot than an ar (gawd! did i just say that! heheh!). (best ahnuld)...i'll be bach!
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 4:47:30 PM EST
campyclone parts list from k-var corp. 1. ak-167 / romanian front sight base, threaded 22x1.5mm / $44.99 2. ak-141 / romanian military compensator / $44.99 3. ak-244 / ak-74 plunger to retain compensator / $5.49 4. ak-025 / qty. 2 required / pins to retain front sight base 5. ak-245 / plunger spring / $2.99 6. ak-256 / ak-74 retaining pin for plunger / $2.99 7. pso-1 novosibirsk russian military battlesight optic / obtain from "tantal" / $120 8. ak-001bx / bulgarian polymer ak-74m military stockset / $69.99 8a. / ak-001bus / alternately, you can use the usa made copy of the bulgarian furniture to add usa parts to the rifle and increase the length of pull 1-1/4" / $69.99 9. add bulgarian polymer mags from "chief thunder" $8.95 each yes...all of that on a $259 rifle! lol!
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 4:55:18 PM EST
THANK YOU CAMPYBOB! I just printed that out, and put the sheet in my rifle case that hilds my SAR2... Gotta get that gun built up into a CampyClone... How hard is it to install the threaded base?
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 6:23:17 PM EST
not difficult...just requires some patience. the original sightbase retaining pins can be driven out...with the proper technique and the right curse words. a "nailset" is best used to start the pins moving, amd a 3/32" punch to drift them out. pressing off the nuetered sightbase is best done on an "h" frame hydraulic press...some guys just dremel them off, as they are worthless, anyways. pressing on (again, some just use a mallet and wood block to tap them onto the bbl. journal) is easy. i recommend NOT using the 3mm factory pins (2 required), but rather, aquiring 2 1/8"x1/2" long hardened steel dowel pins from a local machine shop. then carefully drill thru the two "starter" holes provided in the new sightbase. then, drive in the new 1/8" dowels after coating with red loctite for a no worry installation. assemble the plunger and thread on the comp. althought the atf has ruled it "legal" to install the comp "loose" (no weld, 1100° siver solder or blind pining required as no flash or sound suppressor was ever designed to fit the 22x1.5mm romanian threads), soldering in place insures the most repeatable accuracy for the rifle. it also makes cleaning the inside of that primary expansion chamber very much a pain in the rear.
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 10:48:07 PM EST
what kinda accuracy do you get with your campyclone campy bob>?
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 11:15:07 PM EST
Everyone knows the M14 is the best rifle. [:P]
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 2:52:51 AM EST
Man if only Canada din't ban ak's so long ago [>Q] oh yeah CAMPYBOB, love that rifle!
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 5:35:18 AM EST
with my bad eyes and barnaul 59gr russian (ulyanhovsk 70gr is nearly as accurate) ammo, the 1:8 twist groups them under 3" consistantly. that would be for 5-shot strings timed to keep the thin bbl. cool, and at 100 yds.. some guys have reported greater accuracy from their sar-2's and some have not gotten those results. the typical accuracy for a 7.62x39 akm is about 6"...although many report groups of 3" or less. cryo'd ak's really take a big jump in the ability to hold groupings, from what i'm told. the 19.4" bbl. length rpk variant in 5.45 improves the accuracy even more. and the ammo flies at anywhere from 200 fps slower than .223 to 20 fps faster, depending on type (in both cases). as a rule, 5.45 is the least powerful standard military ammunition in use, today.
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 5:50:17 AM EST
campy) Whose taking orders on that Millitary 5.45?? Is it air-tipped?
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 2:53:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/15/2001 2:56:36 PM EST by CAMPYBOB]
there are two types of ammo in country. one, is an enhanced penetration round, but not "the" latest (such as the n22 type). the other round is a "hot" ap round termed "wasp". pre-orders are being taken by "chief thunder"...aka magua industries, here in ohio. i'll dig you up his addy and phone. chief also is the guy that imported all the bulgarian mags you see for sale. his prices are not just lower than the competition, he blows them away. see his forum at ak-47net and akforums for background info, comments and details on his deals. chief showed up at my bulletfest shoot with several very rare com-bloc full auto's for everyone to shoot and enjoy. edit: i forgot to answer your question, fully...yes, the ammo is all "airtip"...even the 3 types of civvie stuff currently sold (wolf, barnaul and ulyanhovsk). this military ammo has the small steel plug in it to even more rapidly smear the lead core into the air pocket and cause a more rapid flip upon impact.
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 3:11:54 PM EST
Over the past 25yrs, got lotsa time for both weapons. Depends on what you are going to do. I reckon overall the M16 family are a better rifle, as the AKs have some limitations, but any special ops behind the lines where 5.56 is are, and weapons signatures are noted, I'd go with the AK in any of the cals 7.62 or 5.54. Seen my 1st 74 back about 10yrs ago. Some Int boys had one from Afghanistan. It had black mags and was complete with the flash supp and the bolt was a little different. Wierd looking cartridge too. Still got one in my collection. 1feral1 Sydney
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 4:39:34 PM EST
Magua Industries P.O. Box 214 Brownsville, Ohio 43721 maguaindustries@hotmail.com this is chief thunder's business addy and email.
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 9:15:44 PM EST
CampyBob, that is one cool rifle. What magnification is that Russian scope? How is the quality? Damn, I need one of those rifles. My Bushy needs a companion. Please post some detailed pics when you get a chance. [bounce]
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 2:38:09 AM EST
originally posted by MET1: I'd have to go with the AK-74. The AR is a fantastic weapon to use as a recreational firearm but reliability has always been an issue.
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F*cking BS. Where have you been the last 10 years?
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 4:23:54 AM EST
the pso-1 is a 4 power, and the bdc is available calibrated for either 7.62x39 or 7.62x54r. due to the range limitations the ak design, compensation is easily corrected for. several other optics are available, including the kobra autocollimator "dot" sight.
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