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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 11/15/2001 6:09:53 PM EDT
on right now, 10:00 EST.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 6:17:37 PM EDT
"modern marvels" love that show... No_Expert
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 6:23:04 PM EDT
Awesome, Im watching.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 6:34:42 PM EDT
btt. You beat me to it. I just turned it on.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 6:42:08 PM EDT
I wonder how often they reair shows. I watched it (tale of the M16 on History Channel) over a year ago. A couple of years ago they started "Tales of the Gun" They told alot of cool stuff, including the History of the Tommy Gun, the Gun in General, etc...
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 6:43:50 PM EDT
Too bad I don't get History Channel anymore. I'd have to upgrade to the next package to get 1 channel and I have no use for the rest of those channels.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 9:19:47 PM EDT
When it first aired I liked it so much I ordered a copy from The History Channel along with a few others.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 11:06:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 11:19:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: Hahahaha. "The AK47 is for revolutionaries who are too poor to afford the M16."[:D]
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LOL! Quote of the day!
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 1:06:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By big_bore:
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: Hahahaha. "The AK47 is for revolutionaries who are too poor to afford the M16."[:D]
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LOL! Quote of the day!
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Good show...and this does happen to be my favorite quote! medcop
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 7:46:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 7:48:55 AM EDT
Before making statements about the teething problems or lack thereof in the AK family, read a bit about them. They didn't spring fully formed from Kalashnikov's forehead. The difference is that the bugs weren't worked out in the middle of a war.
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 7:56:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/16/2001 7:49:52 AM EDT by HiramRanger]
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 8:04:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/16/2001 8:03:00 AM EDT by Daishi]
Once again, they talked about the m1 carbine being so weak that the bullets would bounce of the overcoats of chinese and n. korean soldiers. Is this a fact or an urban legend? Edited to add: And that exploding ar10... I knew it failed the tests, but that's the first time I heard of a barrel breach. My grandpa's got an original ar10 from holland. I'm pretty sure the barrel's original equipment... should I be concerned? [grenade]
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 8:12:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: Men died because the rifle was flawed from its design, end of story. The AR is a fine rifle without a doubt.
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Well, which is it, a flawed design or a fine rifle? I personally wouldn't have anything to do with a weapon that I thought was a flawed design. Why are you here if you genuinely subscribe to that belief?
When you throw in the fact that you can probably manufacture a couple dozen AKs for the price of ONE AR, which is a better bargain when it comes to equipping large numbers of people.
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Again, only relevant if you are a revolutionary too poor to afford a better weapon like the M16. [;)] The AK is undeniably a great combat weapon, especially for countries/people with financial limitations and unable to provide much, if any education and training on the use and care of the weapon. When the M16s better ergonomics and far superior accuracy are combined with the proper knowledge of how to employ and maintain it, I consider it the better weapon. That obviously does not apply to some camel jockey in the middle of Afghanistan.
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 8:43:08 AM EDT
I watch it all the time..... I bought the video!!! Nuckles. [smash]
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 8:51:56 AM EDT
Recorded it over a year ago, seen it about 10 times and still watch it everytime it comes on.
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 9:17:22 AM EDT
How about this quote: "The troops were told that the M16 is a self-cleaning rifle!" Oh really? The AK is not for those who can't afford an M16, it's for those who want the very best for the money.
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 10:49:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 12:03:55 PM EDT
The original design of the M16 (AR-15) by Gene Stoner wasn't flawed. What was flawed were the morons in Government who made the decision to not chock up the money for the Chrome bore and the Ammunition Specified by the manufacturer. Had the government followed Stoner's specifications, alot of soldiers would be alive today.
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 12:08:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cc48510: The original design of the M16 (AR-15) by Gene Stoner wasn't flawed. What was flawed were the morons in Government who made the decision to not chock up the money for the Chrome bore and the Ammunition Specified by the manufacturer. Had the government followed Stoner's specifications, alot of soldiers would be alive today.
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The show claims that the Army specified the chrome, but McNamara overrode the desision. He used the fact that Stoner didn't specify chrome so it didn't need it. Stoner didn't specify chrome because he didn't really know that the gun needed it.
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 12:23:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/16/2001 12:18:07 PM EDT by gus]
Furthermore, the ordnance higher-ups changed the twist spec from 1 in 10" as specified by the ammo designers to 1 in 14" in an attempt to make the weapon less accurate for comparison testing against the M14. And to make matters worse, they changed the powder spec to ball powder which was a lot dirtier, in an attempt at increasing the range of the now unstable bullet. Only problem is they didn't change things back when the gun finally went into service. The cancelling of the chrome chamber was the final nail. The moral of the story: Don't Let Politicians Involve Themselves In Weapons Design Or War In General.
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 12:25:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 12:43:57 PM EDT
Daishi, no worries. The one that blew up was some sort of prototype titanium steel-lined contraption. All production 10s had full steel barrels. Be nice to grandpa and get him to let ya shoot that thing. My votes for urban legend on that carbine thing. If it will go through a car bumper a thick coat isn't going to stop it. 110 grains at 1900 feet per second or so? I don't think so. Toughest thing about the show last night was switching between it and the Victoria's Secret schtick.
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 4:33:19 PM EDT
If a thick coat could stop a 110 Grain Bullet at 1790 FPS, then why would we have to worry about most any handguns (except 44 Mag., .454 Cassul, etc.) 30 Carbine: 110 Grains/1790 fps/783 Lbs-Ft 454 Cassul: 260 Grains/1800 fps/1871 Lbs-Ft 45 Long Colt: 225 Grains/920 fps/423 Lbs-Ft 45 Automatic: 230 Grains/880 fps/396 Lbs-Ft 44 Magnum: 250 Grains/1230 fps/840 Lbs-Ft 40 S&W: 165 Grains/1130 fps/468 Lbs-Ft 10mm ACP: 175 Grains/1290 fps/649 Lbs-Ft 380 ACP: 95 Grains/955 fps/192 Lbs-Ft 38 Special +P: 130 Grains/925 fps/247 Lbs-Ft 9mm Luger: 147 Grains/990 fps/320 Lbs-Ft How about a Saturday Night Special (25 Auto.) 25 ACP: 45 Grains/815 fps/66 Lbs-Ft Hell, if half of that were true, then what would stop a a bullet with 1/13 of the power of a 30 Carbine ?
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 4:52:42 PM EDT
Just for reference: 22 Short: 29 Grains/865 fps/46 Lbs-Ft 22 Long Rifle: 40 Grains/1060 fps/96 Lbs-Ft 5.56mm Q3131A: 55 Grains/3270 fps/1305 Lbs-Ft 7mm Rem. Magnum: 140 Grains/3150 fps/3085 Lbs-Ft 30-30 Winchester: 150 Grains/2480 fps/2049 Lbs-Ft 7.62x39 Russian: 123 Grains/2365 fps/1527 Lbs-Ft 30-06 Springfield: 150 Grains/3050 fps/3089 Lbs-Ft 300 Winchester Mag: 150 Grains/3260 fps/3539 Lbs-Ft 7.62x51 NATO: 147 Grains/2800 fps/2562 Lbs-Ft 8mm Mauser: 170 Grains/2360 fps/2102 Lbs-Ft 45-70 Gov't: 300 Grains/1880 fps/2355 Lbs-Ft 458 Winchester: 510 Grains/2040 fps/4712 Lbs-Ft 50 BMG: 662 Grains/2912 fps/12,081 Lbs-Ft 600 Nitro: 900 Grains/1950 fps/7357 Lbs-Ft 12 Gauge Magnum Slug: 291 Grains/1760 fps/2919 Lbs-Ft
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 5:41:28 PM EDT
So many errors and omissions on that show last night! Was 30 carbine originally a pistol cartridge? They made it sound as if Stoner invented the idea of direct gas impingement. They didn't even mention that the Nazis thought of the whole intermediate cartridge rifle concept or that Stoner got the gas system idea from them and the Russians. They also made it sound like the troops in Korea didn't have enough firepower! LOL! Browning 1919? BAR? M2? Not enough? They didn't spend nearly enough time talking about the A2 and nothing about the M4 but they did show the Land Warrior stuff (fixed bayonet as always). I thought it was hilarious when they said that the expert riflemen could fire the M14 on full auto with precision, but that the average grunt could not do anything with it. Whatever. Sounds like the US Govt. spent a ton of money on the wrong problem then. All in all, very entertaining.
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 11:07:03 AM EDT
Dammit, I hate it when documentaries present myth as fact. They acted as if the carbine/overcoat story was a proven event... I figured something was rotten with it... [:(]
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