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Posted: 7/21/2005 2:04:28 PM EDT
Well today was the day, my shift and a few others got issued our M-14's. I must admit that today went a hell of a lot better than I initially anticipated.

We got to fire about 25-35 rounds to check our mags and get our sights on. Then it was on to the qualification course that consisted of 40 rounds from 100 yards to 15 yards.

This was not my first try with the M14 as I currently have a SA M1A (Mil parts) and a Fulton Armory build on a Norinco receiver. So I was already feeling at ease with my rifle.

Well first, a little about my new M14. It is an H&R, serial number 247XXX, with a wood stock. My two mags are something in between Mil Spec and Chinese, I don't know what to make of them but they worked 100 % today with zero malfunctions. We were shooting LC 04 ammo and had several misfires. This was a known ammo issue and not weapons related.

As you can see from the following photos, my rifle is really nice. Most of the others were in composite type stocks. Being as I'm on the Color Guard, I got to get a nice pretty wood one. Also, it looks like we ARE going to be allowed to put "QUAILITY" optics on our rifles but the optics and mounts must be inspected and approved FIRST. That's a good improvement from my initial post.

Our duty ammo is going to be the 110 Grain TAP ammo. We should be getting it this coming week.

Man it was some kind of HOT today and the weapons weight factor really showed. It will take some time for us to get used to not having our AR's. But all in all, I'm no where near as disappointed as I first was when I made my first post.



Here is my rifle.





Here is my target, shots ended up being low. As I got closer and saw where they were hitting, I raised my aim some.



At the end of the day, I ended up with about 1100 pieces of LC 04 brass. I'll be busy for a while preping the stuff.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 2:21:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2005 2:25:13 PM EDT by AZ-K9]
You qualify with ammo other than what you will be issued?


Quality optics on an M1A M14 for patrol work?


This is going to get interesting.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 2:32:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
You qualify with ammo other than what you will be issued?


Quality optics on an M1A for patrol work?


This is going to get interesting.



Yea, the "system" ain't perfect but it will have to do for now . I don't know what plans are in the works for re-zeroing with our duty ammo. I know for a fact that if not given a few rounds to zero with I'm gonna buy some.

Besides, I have been with more than one agency that "issues" one type of ammo but "qualifies" with cheaper reloaded stuff. On rare accasion, we have qualified with "duty" ammo as a way to cycle out old ammo and get fresh duty ammo. I have yet to come across an agency that specifically qualifies twice a year with issued duty ammo, I'm sure there are some out there somewhere, but I have not seen them .

As far as OPTICS, I'm sure I can use the M14 better if I had my Aimpoint mounted on it vs the irons. Remember, we are being "forced" into these M14's for now so SOMETHING as far as a rifle is concerned is better than NOTHING.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 2:43:42 PM EDT
What is the intended purpose that the M14 will fill that an M4 won't or can't fill? Did you try it in FA? Do you get to take it home or does it have to stay at "work"? Yes, I am nosey
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 2:52:30 PM EDT
These have no transfer bar (I think that's what it's called) and they are SEMI only as they came from the Govt. We got the "THIRD DEGREE" speech about "ONCE A MACHINE GUN, ALWAYS A MACHINE GUN" as viewed by the BATF so we are not to take them out of state. If we use them at the range on our own time/dime, we MUST have our LEO credentials with us. Yes, I take the weapon home with me.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 3:12:43 PM EDT
Well that too bad there is no FA action, but seeing as how it would have been on your dime you are probably better off.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 3:29:00 PM EDT
Nice shooting.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 3:44:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2005 3:53:23 PM EDT by Bowhntr6pt]

Originally Posted By BallisticTip:
Nice shooting.



Thanks. Man it was damn hot so once we got close, I just pointed and fired. If you look close, you can see the scattered shots just above the concentration of shots.

I thought that these rifles were going to be beat up pieces of crap. WRONG, these rifles were really nice shooters. My trigger was very crisp and was probably about 5 lbs.

A fellow Deputy is on here, maybe he can tell us what his rifle was capable of .


Two shooters at the 100 yard line. Targets are to the far left, the two blue ones.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 5:26:25 PM EDT
Nice rifles. I'd venture to say that your department got it's $20 worth out of those rifles.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 5:29:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 5:39:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2005 5:51:40 PM EDT by mic214]

Originally Posted By Wave:
That's some nice wood you got there!(Damn, sorry if it sounds ghey.)



Now that's funny right there............

Bowhntr6pt;

That is way cool. I wish we were allowed to carry those when I was back on patrol (many moons ago).....I was on our dept's SRT unit back then, and we were issued CAR-16's and I had a Rem 700VLS as my long range rifle. Our area is pretty rural and the M-14/M1-A would make a great patrol rifle, especially in the SOCOM or even the Scout version.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:02:25 PM EDT
I fail to understand why the M14 would be used as a "patrol" rifle. The M4 would be much easier to move around in the interior of a car/truck. I was so glad to get rid of that heavy bastard in 65. It was totally uncontrollable in the full auto mode.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:41:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TxLawDog:
Nice rifles. I'd venture to say that your department got it's $20 worth out of those rifles.



Actually the rifles did not cost the SO a penny. That's why the push for us to use them.

Wave... yea, I was glad that I got a nice looking rifle. It shoots very well.

Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:44:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2005 6:48:32 PM EDT by Bowhntr6pt]

Originally Posted By menefreghista:
I fail to understand why the M14 would be used as a "patrol" rifle. The M4 would be much easier to move around in the interior of a car/truck. I was so glad to get rid of that heavy bastard in 65. It was totally uncontrollable in the full auto mode.



Very sore subject with some of us (Deputies) right now. I had a decked our AR, as did others, but for now we do what the "Powers to Be" say. We are hoping that in the future we will be allowed to carry our AR's but for now the M14 is better than NOTHING.

I went from this (my own AR):


To this:
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:48:13 PM EDT
Looks good man! never seen the M14 used as a patrol rifle, but for the price you can't beat it!
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:58:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wave:
That's some nice wood you got there!(Damn, sorry if it sounds ghey.)









Link Posted: 7/21/2005 7:01:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 11:05:19 PM EDT
Glad to hear they atleast relaxed the scope restrictions. We're about to find out how ya'll feel in terms of weapons selection. Got word from the chief today that in a few weeks I will not be permitted to carry my TRP 1911 on or off duty anymore because we are getting into some kind of trial contact with Taurus where they give us free handguns and all we have to do is carry them and right a review on them. It doesn't bother me a whole lot cause I get to welcome two new guns( 1 duty weapon and 1 backup/offduty weapon) to the collection that I didn't drop a dime for. Just not to sure about Taurus since I've never owned one.

By the way, what range ya'll at? SCI?
Link Posted: 7/22/2005 6:39:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tac45:
Glad to hear they atleast relaxed the scope restrictions. We're about to find out how ya'll feel in terms of weapons selection. Got word from the chief today that in a few weeks I will not be permitted to carry my TRP 1911 on or off duty anymore because we are getting into some kind of trial contact with Taurus where they give us free handguns and all we have to do is carry them and right a review on them. It doesn't bother me a whole lot cause I get to welcome two new guns( 1 duty weapon and 1 backup/offduty weapon) to the collection that I didn't drop a dime for. Just not to sure about Taurus since I've never owned one.

By the way, what range ya'll at? SCI?



Yes, SCI. I'm on this weekend. If your out, call me.
Link Posted: 7/22/2005 7:42:58 AM EDT
Nice rifle, man! I just wish we could carry ANY rifles!

A little off-topic but, around here anyway, qualifying with ammo other than your duty ammo is pretty common. We shoot up our old duty ammo once a year during qualifications, the rest of the time we use reloads. High-quality, commercially-loaded reloads, but reloads nonetheless. They are loaded to comparable power, velocity and bullet grain as our duty ammo but are considerably cheaper, hence the reason they are used. In fact, in Ohio, there is a legal precedent for this, and the laws governing this specifically state that the ammo used must be duty ammo OR EQUIVALENT. I can't remember the exact wording but I know it's there. Your State may have the same thing.

Bub
Link Posted: 7/22/2005 7:58:29 AM EDT
Damn nice looking M14!!!!

The Birch stock looks great. It sounds like a good shooter too. Make sure you Grease her up good and keep the gas cylinder clean, and that rifle will be with you till the day you retire


Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:
Did you try it in FA?




If you look real close it has a Selector Lock on it
Link Posted: 7/22/2005 10:47:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/23/2005 1:34:15 PM EDT by AGR1279]
Deleted message
Dan
Link Posted: 7/23/2005 4:03:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/23/2005 4:16:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/23/2005 4:22:46 AM EDT
The TAP is a frangible round isn't it?
Link Posted: 7/23/2005 5:32:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wave:

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
SD state patrol all get issued these same guns, while I can understand the need in SD to have a 600yd rifle in case of buffalo attatck, I really think that that much power in a citified rifle is a bit much.



[devilsadvocate]Funny how it's too powerful for the cops, but the majority of the ARFCOM membership here wouldn't hesitate to pull one out and "use it on a badguy" if they had to.[devilsadvocate]





Aint that the truth
Link Posted: 7/23/2005 11:33:18 AM EDT
Sounds kind of like a patrol rifle policy and a rifle that's meant not to be used.
Link Posted: 7/23/2005 7:26:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PBIR:
The TAP is a frangible round isn't it?



18" barrel
110grs @ 3050fps
9.75" penetration
6.5" max temp cavity
4" depth to max cavity
20.3grs retained weight
82% fragmentation
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 8:28:09 PM EDT
How come you don't practice beyond pistol range?

You got a rifleman's rifle, so become a rifleman.
Link Posted: 7/25/2005 2:21:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sixgun_Symphony:
How come you don't practice beyond pistol range?

You got a rifleman's rifle, so become a rifleman.



If you read my post, you will see that we fired from 100 yards to as close as 15 yards. In law enforcement, this is the range in which you can expect a gunfight to take place, with 25 yards or less most likely the average for a "Patrol" officer.

We are not training to be "Riflemen" , we are training Deputies to use this rifle as a tool within the anticipated scope of it's intended use .

Link Posted: 8/7/2005 11:39:30 AM EDT
Bowhunter, I think I work a little north of you. If you don't mind answering a few. How did you get the rifles? (1033) Program or transfered from somebody else? What was your time frame? What happened to cause the change. I don't remember an election or too many rifle involved shooting recently. Seems like a pain in the ass to field and supply a new weapon system. Our patrol rifle team uses a 3 to 1 mix of Mini-14s and HK G-3s. I've always thought the M-14 for little to nothing would be a good addition to the mix.

Link Posted: 8/7/2005 7:57:57 PM EDT
I put an Aimpoint on one of my M1As using a Smith Enterprise scope mount and a single Badger Max 50 ring. Works great, although it is a little spendy. The Max 50 ring holds the Aimpoint as low as possible and locks it rock solid to the mount. I have to use an AR for duty, but I wouldn't feel poorly armed with an M14 with an Aimpoint on it. I used to take an M14 on missions quite a bit while I was still on SWAT instead of my G36K, especially if we were hitting a compound out in the country.

You might want to try and have your rangemaster look at the 155-grain TAP. The 110, while fragmenting spectacularly, has shallow penetration. The 155 gives you an exellent balance of fragmentation and penetration.
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