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Posted: 5/24/2001 7:49:09 PM EDT
(Entreprise.com) available in June or July, $599, all to be hand gauged. Thank God! there is finally a choice, other than Springfield Armory crapola!
Link Posted: 5/24/2001 8:02:32 PM EDT
OK, Mouseboy, what did SA ever do to you? I think their "crapola" is at least decent, and I would have to give a hard look to anything Entreprise before I'd throw down my money.
Link Posted: 5/24/2001 8:16:44 PM EDT
Springfield Armory receivers have been good, the rest of the parts on the M1As are becoming more and more of a hodge podge of foriegn made parts though these days. Some people don't like that fact. Personally I'm gonna get the cheapest Springfield possible and shoot it till it breaks(should take a long time), then I'm gonna have it rebuilt in grand fashion.
Link Posted: 5/24/2001 8:26:01 PM EDT
Springfield=Crapola?????????? I would think NOT my friend. The Ohio State service rifle unclassified civilian champion last year shot an M1A. I personally own two, and would not trade them for a boat load of AR15's. While others may offer an alternative that may meet or exceed what one can realize with a Springfield M1A, they are by no means junk. My.02 Chuck
Link Posted: 5/24/2001 8:28:35 PM EDT
OK, your correct. The geometry of the Springfield receivers is very good. However, they are investment cast. Ive heard of quite a few folks that bought a finished gun that had problems due to poor quality control. Springfield used to use USGI parts, now most are commercial and in my opinion, inferior to USGI. I'm sure most guns that come out of SA are fine, but when your dealing with the awesome pressure of the .308 cartridge, problems with the gun could be the end of ya. Plus, I think even at wholesale, they are overpriced between $300-500, depending on model.
Link Posted: 5/24/2001 8:37:09 PM EDT
I agree with you on the point of the cast receiver and use of non GI parts. Maybe Enterprise can produce one that will meet GI specs and use GI parts for a reasonable price. Hell I would buy one. They will have to price them cheaper than Springfield to sell em when you think about it. Springfield is already established and recognized as the preeminent out of box 14 clone for the money. It will be interesting to see what shakes out of this. I'm glad that you took my above post as it was intended, and not as a flame. Be cool Chuck
Link Posted: 5/24/2001 8:38:27 PM EDT
To each his own??????? Somebodys crapola is someones crown jewell.
Link Posted: 5/24/2001 9:07:52 PM EDT
Y'all better hope that their M1A receivers are better than their FAL receivers. I'm not saying they're bad, but they've had some quality control issues in the past with their CAST FAL receivers. You never know, they might have done it right. It might be an EXCELLANT receiver, but I'm not going to be the first one to pony up 500 bucks to find out. You better let the so-called experts buy first and read their reveiws. Ignore the gunwhores who always speak positive about everything because they need the advertisements in their magazines.
Link Posted: 5/24/2001 10:35:35 PM EDT
Actually,the FAL receivers now are very well made and well respected
Link Posted: 5/25/2001 4:15:06 AM EDT
My Springfield Armory is not crap. It is one of the finest rifles I own. Unlike most my ARs, it has NEVER FAILED to feed, eject, function. [;D] It remains accurate, powerfull and reliable. I would not trade it for any AR, FAL ,G3... I've heard some of the new ones come with commercial made parts because S.A. is running out of USGI parts. . . but they stand behind there product. I hope the Entreprise M14 is a quality product, but I'll keep my old SpringfieldArmory. [img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/027/MS/uZ/wE/v780970.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 5/25/2001 4:17:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2001 5:34:44 AM EDT by Halfcocked]
cpermed; That's what I heard about the FALs. I have an early 80's Springfield M1A and I always thought it was forged. Did I eat some BS? Edited because I saw Derek45's post and to make it clearer. Derek45; It says M1A on the reciever but you have the M14 selector there. What gives?
Link Posted: 5/25/2001 4:25:12 AM EDT
Halfcocked, Is it an M1A or a FAL that you have that was made in the early 80's? The Springfield FAL receivers are factory Imbel receivers and you can't get much better, though I am not sure of the manufacturing process. I do not know if Springfield ever made forged M1A receivers or not. Chuck
Link Posted: 5/25/2001 5:31:56 AM EDT
It's an M1A. My college graduation present to myself.
Link Posted: 5/25/2001 5:54:41 AM EDT
I live a few miles from Entreprise, I`ll go later today to see fer myself. SA-Junk????? Pshaw, I say. My Prebbie SA M1A Supermatch is a damn fine rifle, I might even say the best rifle in my safes. I own a Entreprise FAL too. I`ve heard Derek from AZ cripple the rep of Entreprise Arms, No suprise there as they are the competition. I like mine, it works and is what I expect from a combat firearm, it could be better but it aint the cost of a DSA either. Lawrence from Entreprise Arms is a stand up guy and will take the time out of his busy day to talk shop and rifles and 1911`s and esp 10mm with you. He does quality work in a timely fashion for a reasonable price. I cannot say the same for any other Falsmith I have spoken to. Most will try to make you feel less than learned about FALs while preaching what they know. Lawrence aint like that, and for that I will funnel money their way. That`s a little pricey for a M14 reciever, I will have to see with my own eyes. I`d love to build a scout rifle on a M14 rec.
Link Posted: 5/25/2001 5:59:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Rich314: I`d love to build a scout rifle on a M14 rec.
View Quote
Me too. It would have a synthetic / fiberglass stock. I'd like to build it up like a battle carbine.
Link Posted: 5/25/2001 6:56:51 AM EDT
Rich, if you ever buy an Entreprise rifle and a DSA rifle and put them side by side, you will be SHOCKED by how much better the DSA looks and feels. Even the DSA kit guns are way better than the Entreprise. That finish entreprise uses is a RIP-OFF for a $1200 rifle, which is regrettably what I paid for their gov't model over a year ago. Not only that, but they have HAVE HAD quality control issues in the past. My Entreprise (sold as "new") had an 85% barrel and a loose fit between the upper and lower, which could not be fixed because the receiver's locking lug was not of correct dimensions. sheesh, you can keep that junk.
Link Posted: 5/25/2001 7:09:29 AM EDT
The 'selector' on that M1A in the picture is actually part of the stock. It's a dummy designed to fill in the space on a GI stock that's left open for the selector. I've owned and fired a number of Springfield M1A's, and never had a problem with the receiver. They are using increasing numbers of aftermarket cast parts, which can cause problems ( I had a cast trigger group fail). However, there is usually nothing wrong with their receivers. If you really want a great gun, get a Springfield receiver and send it to Fulton Armory. Clint McKee will build you a rifle out of all GI parts that will knock your socks off. The rack-grade rifle he built for me is a thing of absolute beauty, nicer than the M14's I've handled. If the Springfield receiver you send him is out of spec, he'll notice and you can ship it to Springfield for a replacement (they do stand behind their stuff) before the rifle is built. There has been a great deal of talk about how 'inferior' cast receivers are, but I think it's bunk. And from what I've heard about Entreprise, I wouldn't buy a receiver from them, especially not for $200 more than a Springfield.
Link Posted: 5/25/2001 7:34:10 AM EDT
If it is a billet and then CNC machined,Then the only way to screw it up is programmer error or poor machine setup and maintenance
Link Posted: 5/25/2001 7:47:14 AM EDT
Tool, I agree the DSA is a better product and until recently they were very pricey. The only reason I went with Ent over DSA is Ent is close by and has an address. DSA has a POBox they do business from. That shouldnt be a concern but I was new to FALs and DSA was just getting established, they have proven to be a first rate firearm and I would dearly love to have one. I seen and fired them but I dont see another 500 bucks in it.
Link Posted: 5/25/2001 9:50:23 AM EDT
I have two SA's and neither one has a quality issue. I will not buy the Entreprise until I get some feedback from those who purchase and build them first. I've heard about their QA issues in the past, and will wait this out until theyre proven. I dont have $$$ to throw away. Eric
Link Posted: 5/25/2001 10:05:40 AM EDT
I'd drop a note to Clint McKee at Fulton Armory [url]http://www.fultonarmory.com[/url] concerning the quality of the Enterprise receivers. He prefers the SA receivers because when he gets one that is out of spec, SA will exchange it, no questions asked. And he DOES get out of spec receivers. Interestingly, he also says that the Norinco (PRC) receivers are VERY good, but that the rest of the rifle is crap. I looked at having him build me an M1A, but instead went for an AR - lower cost to build, & lower cost to shoot, but still a full-custom gun. VERY NICE WORK! [sniper]
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