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Posted: 6/13/2009 11:16:32 AM EST
Why the hell should I feel sorry, says...(Lynndie England) who abused Abu Ghraib prisoners..
Mail Online ^ | June 13, 2009 | David Jones

In this deeply disturbing interview, the trailer trash torturer who appalled the world by appearing in shocking 'souvenir' photographs remains utterly unrepentant and says she has 800 MORE torture photos that could rock the White House

Normally, not much happens in Keyser, West Virginia, but today the folks in this quaint little railroad town, nestling in the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains, are spoilt for choice.

Either they can whoop and holler along to fiddle music at the annual Strawberry Festival or head down to the bookshop, where a local 'celebrity' - as her agent-cum-lawyer describes her - is signing first editions of her new biography.

Arriving at Main Street Books to find a young woman - considerably heavier now, but still grimly familiar - loitering self-consciously beside a pile of unsold manuscripts, it becomes clear that the fiddle players have won hands-down.

When the shop closes, two hours later, Lynndie England has autographed barely two dozen copies, mostly for acquaintances such as her old schoolteacher.

For even on her home territory, few people are willing to line the pockets of this fallen girl soldier; who posed for a stomach-churning series of 'souvenir' photographs that cost countless American lives and brought shame on the nation.

Five years have passed since a U.S. TV station first broadcast those pictures, staged to humiliate and dehumanise Iraqi prisoners - and provide warped amusement for their U.S. Army guards - at Abu Ghraib prison, near Baghdad.

They caused universal outrage, ending any lingering pretence that President George W. Bush was on some moral crusade in Iraq, and sparking a wave of retaliatory beheadings; many of which were videoed to reciprocate the horror and degradation meted out to the Muslim detainees.

Such was their impact that they are still said to be used as recruitment propaganda for Islamic terror groups.

After all, what better way to incite a young fanatic than by showing him a photo of a female American soldier nonchalantly holding a leash, tightened around the neck of a naked and hooded Iraqi prisoner, as he squirms on the floor of his cell?

In another photograph, the waif-like Military Police private casually inspects a line of terrified Iraqi prisoners - again stripped and wearing sandbags over their heads - as they are forced to masturbate.

Grinning broadly with a cigarette clamped in her mouth, England, then just 21 and weighing less than seven stone, added to their humiliation by pointing mockingly at their genitals and giving the thumbs-up sign; a gesture now known as the 'Lynndie salute'.

One of seven U.S. Army reserves jailed for mistreating prisoners at Abu Ghraib - including her former lover Corporal Charles Graner, a sadistic, camera-obsessed bully who orchestrated the photo sessions - she has served three years in detention and is now on parole.

With a new book to peddle and her appeal against the conviction due to be heard next month, one might have expected the 26-year-old England to express some remorse.

Following Barack Obama's release of CIA torture files which lend credence to her claim that the ritual humiliation of prisoners was a White House sanctioned tactic during the Bush regime, she even consulted her local senator about petitioning for a Presidential pardon

But 'sorry', it becomes clear, is not in Lynndie England's vocabulary.

When we speak, three things strike me: her breathtaking lack of contrition; her unsuitability to have been a serving soldier and her utter indifference towards the horrifically abused prisoners at Abu Ghraib, 90 per cent of whom were later released without charge.

Since no established biographer would touch her life story (it was even dropped by the literary agent who handled O.J. Simpson's widely reviled book, If I Did It) her biography has been penned by a greenhorn local author, Gary Winkler.

For a man whose two previous works were lilting chronicles of Appalachian life, it has proved a chastening experience. Not only has he fallen out bitterly with his subject and her agent-cum-lawyer and confidant, Roy T. Hardy, but he has patently struggled to get the characteristically withdrawn England to open up.

'I just don't think she's a very deep person,' Winkler, a white-bearded former musician in his late 50s, concludes miserably.

'Lynndie only has two moods: bored and p****d off.'

During our first meeting, when she yawns through my questions, I see what he means.

Two days later, however, perhaps enlivened by the anti-depressant tablets upon which she relies, England is more animated and opens up to describe the background to the photographs in more detail than ever before.

They were taken on three separate nights in late October and early November 2003. At the time, her job was to process the detainees' admission and release forms.

As a clerical support worker, she had no business in the so-called Hard Site at Abu Ghraib, a block of some 40 cells where the supposedly most dangerous inmates were held.

But she routinely sneaked in late at night to sleep with Graner, a hulking 6ft 3in ex-Marine in charge of the night patrol.

After their arrest, she discovered he had also been having sex with another female soldier who worked on the block, Megan Ambuhl, whom he has married while in prison.

At the time of their affair, England was also married, to childhood sweetheart James Fike, so their relationship was against U.S. military rules.

Even after being repeatedly warned, she refused to break off with Graner and was eventually demoted.

She says she was mesmerised by Graner, who worked in civilian life as a prison corrections officer and had an appalling record for abusing prisoners - one claimed he hid razor blades in the prison food.

'I was blinded by a fool's love,' England says in her cigarette-coarsened south-country drawl, as if this explains and excuses her participation in the pictures.

'I know now that Graner was manipulating me, but at that point I would have done anything he told me.'

I ask her about one of the most chilling pictures, in which seven naked detainees, brought to the block after allegedly taking part in a riot elsewhere in the prison, were forced to form a 'human pyramid'.

After instructing the men to pile up on top of one another, Graner proudly draped his arm around England, and the smiling couple posed beside the grotesque tangle of human flesh.

Looking at the image now, it appears that the detainees could not have remained in this painful position for very long; yet England says quite matter-of-factly that they were forced to stay fixed in position for '20 minutes or something'.

When I suggest that this must have been excruciatingly painful, she shrugs and replies: 'Probably.'

So why hadn't she asked Graner to call a halt? A grin and another shrug: 'I'm pretty sure he'd have said "No".

'There were only three of us and seven of them, and he wanted to contain them by keeping them connected and concentrating on not falling - so they wouldn't overpower us. That's how he explained it.'

But surely she must have felt some pity for them? As often, she takes an eternity to reply, then says: 'In my eyes they were the enemy; the other side. What happens in war happens. They would have done 20 times worse to us.'

We move on to another hideous image, in which the same group of prisoners - one of whom Graner had punched full in the face - were lined up and ordered to masturbate.

How long had this sick charade continued? 'You are going to find this ridiculous,' says England, half suppressing a snigger. 'One guy did 45 minutes! Freddie [Graner's fellow prison guard, Ivan Frederick] just wanted to see if they would do it - and all seven of them lined up doing this.

'Well, six stopped after a few minutes, but the seventh carried on.'

Hearing this account for the first time, even Roy T. Hardy, her lawyer, who had thought himself beyond shock after representing England for five years, is clearly taken aback.

'But you were there the whole time?' gasps bespectacled, roly-poly Hardy. 'I've never heard this stuff before.'

'Yes I was - unfortunately,' England says, fixing him with her strange, lop-sided smile. 'I was standing there, like, watching. I was there the whole four hours.'

Hardy, who doubles as a local assistant county prosecutor, clears his throat, as if about to address the bench. 'Don't mistake Lynndie's grin for amusement,' he implores me. 'That's just a nervous mannerism.'

Maybe so, I say, but she caused so much harm. What people want to hear is an apology.

'Sorry? For what I did?' she interjects, incredulous. 'All I did was stand in the pictures. Saying sorry is admitting I was guilty and I'm not. I was just doing my duty.'

She recites her often-rehearsed argument: that the Abu Ghraib guards were tacitly encouraged to 'soften up' the prisoners before they were interrogated by military intelligence officers.

Given all we know now, this sounds plausible. It is also easy to see how this gullible backwoods girl became the sociopathic Graner's stooge; as Gary Winkler says: 'She was his prop; all she was guilty of is stupidity.'

For all this, however, it is impossible to empathise with her, for she is such an unsympathetic character.

The daughter of a railway worker, Ken England, and his wife Terrie, she was two years old when her family moved from Kentucky to a trailer park in Fort Ashby, West Virginia.

There she grew into a tomboy and loner, never happier than when shooting squirrels in the woods. Until her wedding day, she had never owned a dress.

Teachers recall her for saying almost nothing during her school years, and her defence psychologist diagnosed her with speech-related learning difficulty called selective mutism.

However, she was bright enough to graduate from high school with good grades, and set her heart on becoming a meteorologist.

This ambition began, she says, after she saw the film Twister and became fascinated by tornadoes.

To pay her way through college, she took menial jobs, including processing chickens and serving in a supermarket, where she fell for the mild-mannered Fike.

They were divorced after she admitted her affair with Graner, although England insists she still loves Fike, and would like to get back together with him.

'But I wouldn't blame him if he hates me.'

They wed as teenagers, but soon afterwards she joined the local reserve regiment, the 372nd Military Police Company - partly because she needed the money, but mainly because she 'always wanted to serve', she says.

Never having travelled beyond the nearby states, and not even owning a passport, she hadn't expected to be sent overseas.

But as operations in Afghanistan and Iraq stretched U.S. services to breaking point, the 'weekend warriors' were marched off to war.

By then her affair with Graner had already begun. Having pursued her for weeks at their U.S. base, Fort Lee, the 34-year-old divorce 14 years her senior, checked them into a seedy motel where the liaison was consummated.

She first discovered that Graner got a kick out of taking - and showing his friends - perverted photographs of her soon afterwards, when they holidayed in Virginia Beach.

This was in March 2003, more than six months before the Abu Ghraib pictures were taken.

While she performed a sex act on him, he reached for his Sony and started clicking away, she says.

'Whoa! Hey, what are you doing? I don't want pictures taken,' England says she protested.

But when Graner insisted they were for his eyes only and just 'harmless fun', she relented.

She claims she had no idea he was emailing compromising pictures of her to fellow soldiers until after her arrest; hence her lack of caution when he asked her to pose with the prisoners.

However, as her boyfriend had maliciously shown the Virginia Beach photos to her mortified parents during a visit to her family in April 2003 - by 'accidentally' slipping them in among some other innocent snaps they were viewing - surely alarm bells should have rung?

Graner and England were deployed to Abu Ghraib in October 2003, and although nothing can excuse their subsequent behaviour, it is possible to see how things happened.

A few months earlier, the prison had held just 700 detainees, but when they arrived the numbers had swollen to 7,000.

Understaffed, undertrained and poorly led, the guards struggled to control this sweltering bedlam.

Though she insists that 'everyone' knew about the detainee photographs, a criminal investigation began only some three months after they were taken, when a soldier with a conscience, Sergeant Joseph Darby, handed in two CDs of photographs which Graner had boastfully shown to him.

Hastily airlifted out of Iraq for his own safety, Darby has lived in hiding ever since. Just as well, for England says she would 'definitely beat the hell out of him if I saw him', adding: 'In war, you don't rat on your buddies.'

Intriguingly, she claims to possess about 800 more unseen photographs from her time in Iraq, depicting scenes which would be highly damaging to the U.S. Army and the White House, if they were ever released.

Roy T. Hardy claims they include pictures of an Iraqi woman bearing her breasts and graphic images of wounded enemy combatants, but declines to go into more detail because, until her dishonorable discharge is finalised, England remains a serving soldier.

It is not clear whether these photographs, which are locked away in a vault, are among the hundreds which Obama is withholding - having reneged last month on his promise to release them when he came to power.

But their very existence constitutes a ticking time-bomb for the U.S. authorities, and biographer Gary Winkler believes she and Hardy will try to sell them to the highest bidder.

The author claims England is being manipulated by her lawyer-agent, and describes Hardy as 'the new Charles Graner'.

Understandably, Hardy, 39, is incensed by this - though the happily married father-of-two hardly helps himself by constantly joking that he and England are having a secret fling.

Winkler is embittered, the lawyer says, because Hardy and England have criticised his book, which was supposed to have been her first-person story but has ended up an error-strewn exercise in vanity publishing. But she needs the money.

She has applied for countless jobs, she complains, but no one dares to employ her, and so, two years after her release she remains unemployed and has given up hope of working.

Reliant on food stamps and the charity of her family and friends, she lives with her parents and four-year-old Carter, the child she had with Graner, in the same cramped trailer where she was raised.

Her hatred for Graner, who is midway through his ten-year sentence, was compounded when he demanded a DNA test to prove Carter is really his child.

England was pregnant by the time she stood trial and maintains that only Graner could be the father.

The result is not back yet, but one look at the boy would be enough for Graner to realise he is wasting his time.

England, now 26 and without a boyfriend - though she receives marriage proposals from twisted internet admirers - says she is depressed because she feels trapped and has lost her independence.

'I can't even hunt squirrels no more, because I'm not permitted to own a firearm,' she moans.

As a result of post-traumatic stress, she says, she also suffers flashbacks and horribly vivid nightmares.

Do they reawaken memories of those chilling photograph sessions at Abu Ghraib?

'It's a whole variety of stuff. You can't hear somebody screaming their heads off and not dream about it,' she drawls sardonically.

'I'll be watching a movie, or TV, and then something triggers it and, bam! I'm back there.'

This hardly sounds like contrition, but is probably as close as Private First Class Lynndie England will ever come to expressing regret for becoming the unacceptable face of the U.S. Army.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:17:49 AM EST
In this deeply disturbing interview, the trailer trash torturer


I stopped reading after that.

Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:17:59 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:18:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By Chris_C:
In this deeply disturbing interview, the trailer trash torturer


I stopped reading after that.



British paper....what do you expect?

And she is trailer trash...
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:19:52 AM EST
i found this to be very unbiased journalism. the author of this should be praised, and given something very special.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:19:54 AM EST
In before everyone lets us know she is a hero.



...Hearts and minds FAIL.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:20:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By lamarbrog:
In before everyone lets us know she is a hero.



...Hearts and minds FAIL.


Or before someone brings up the whole 'its no worse than college hazing' nonsense.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:21:42 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:21:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By poink:
Originally Posted By lamarbrog:
In before everyone lets us know she is a hero.



...Hearts and minds FAIL.


Or before someone brings up the whole 'its no worse than college hazing' nonsense.

"Hold my beer while I attach these wires to Joe's balls."
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:22:32 AM EST
I hope she releases those photos to show up Obango
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:23:15 AM EST
She's an unprofessional dirtbag who her country and the Army a grave disservice.

Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:24:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By poink:
Originally Posted By lamarbrog:
In before everyone lets us know she is a hero.



...Hearts and minds FAIL.


Or before someone brings up the whole 'its no worse than college hazing' nonsense.
I don't know about that, but I will say that I don't give a flying fuck about what happens to terrorists. I'm not saying what she did was right, but who fucking cares about the feeling of terrorists?

Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:24:49 AM EST
Why is she out? Why is she allowed to profit off HER CRIME?
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:24:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By Chris_C:
In this deeply disturbing interview, the trailer trash torturer


I stopped reading after that.



So did I.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:27:03 AM EST
I'd hit it... with a truck.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:27:42 AM EST
How many officers took the fall for that nonsense?

I'm pretty sure the answer was "zero."
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:28:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By Okapi:
I hope she releases those photos to show up Obango


It will only help him. President Obamas safety net is the bad press Bush has. anytime he can find something to say "see, look how bad it was, good thing ya got me" the media will hand it to him.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:29:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 11:32:24 AM EST by lamarbrog]

Originally Posted By 20iner:

Originally Posted By poink:
Originally Posted By lamarbrog:
In before everyone lets us know she is a hero.



...Hearts and minds FAIL.


Or before someone brings up the whole 'its no worse than college hazing' nonsense.
I don't know about that, but I will say that I don't give a flying fuck about what happens to terrorists. I'm not saying what she did was right, but who fucking cares about the feeling of terrorists?


When it scares the people that are neutral into fighting us, because it looks like we're just another tyrannical regime, then I give a flying f**k.

It is like finances... You have to have more money coming in, than money going out.
Wars like this are they same way... You have to kill badguys, without creating more at a faster rate.



In addition... Not everyone that gets detained is a terrorist... Many likely are, but others aren't. How many of the good guys should we accidentally torture... That will then become mad guys, along with their family and friends?

How about we just keep them incarcerated, but relatively happy, until we figure out which side they are on, without torturing them? The key is to keep them away from explosives... as long as that is accomplished, doing anything more to them risks pissing off more people.



It is like the video of troops throwing a grenade into a herd of sheep for fun... Do you think the sheep herder that is now going to have a harder time keeping his family fed went home that night and said "I sure love these Americans. Hey, kids, be like them when you grow up.". No, he went home, probably walked around his house cursing out the USA, thought about whether he was really better off now than before. Then told his kids never to be like that when they grow up..
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:31:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By Ahiodsohi:
Originally Posted By Chris_C:
In this deeply disturbing interview, the trailer trash torturer


I stopped reading after that.



So did I.


I wish I had.

Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:32:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By 20iner:

Originally Posted By poink:
Originally Posted By lamarbrog:
In before everyone lets us know she is a hero.



...Hearts and minds FAIL.


Or before someone brings up the whole 'its no worse than college hazing' nonsense.
I don't know about that, but I will say that I don't give a flying fuck about what happens to terrorists. I'm not saying what she did was right, but who fucking cares about the feeling of terrorists?



You don't need sadistic, homosexual rednecks playing quasi-sex games with naked, male detainees in order to get them to cooperate.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:33:07 AM EST
While I don't totally blame her, the stupid bitch gave the Taliban the tools need to further their cause.

I don't give a damn if you line up all the Taliban and put a bullet in their head, just don't post the damn pics on the internet.

Her and her Chain of Commands stupidity caused the deaths of countless Americans. They all need to still be in jail.

For that she can go to hell as far as i'm concerned.

FREE



Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:35:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By Screechjet1:
How many officers took the fall for that nonsense?

I'm pretty sure the answer was "zero."


You have to prove they knew about the torture and did nothing.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:36:02 AM EST
Was the writer masturbating while he wrote that excrement ? Seriously, when it comes to writing hit pieces, no one does it better than the British media.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:36:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By FREEFALLE7:
While I don't totally blame her, the stupid bitch gave the Taliban the tools need to further their cause.

I don't give a damn if you line up all the Taliban and put a bullet in their head, just don't post the damn pics on the internet.

Her and her Chain of Commands stupidity caused the deaths of countless Americans. They all need to still be in jail.

For that she can go to hell as far as i'm concerned.

FREE





I can not disagree with this.

Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:38:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By Screechjet1:
How many officers took the fall for that nonsense?

I'm pretty sure the answer was "zero."


Two demotions.

That's all, I think.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:38:46 AM EST
Her best bet is to change her name, her face and just dissapear.

Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:39:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By poink:
Originally Posted By 20iner:

Originally Posted By poink:
Originally Posted By lamarbrog:
In before everyone lets us know she is a hero.



...Hearts and minds FAIL.


Or before someone brings up the whole 'its no worse than college hazing' nonsense.
I don't know about that, but I will say that I don't give a flying fuck about what happens to terrorists. I'm not saying what she did was right, but who fucking cares about the feeling of terrorists?



You don't need sadistic, homosexual rednecks playing quasi-sex games with naked, male detainees in order to get them to cooperate.


And you certainly don't need it to be policy, which is was.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:42:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By 20iner:

Originally Posted By poink:
Originally Posted By lamarbrog:
In before everyone lets us know she is a hero.



...Hearts and minds FAIL.


Or before someone brings up the whole 'its no worse than college hazing' nonsense.
I don't know about that, but I will say that I don't give a flying fuck about what happens to terrorists. I'm not saying what she did was right, but who fucking cares about the feeling of terrorists?



Enemy combatants picked up off the battlefield shouldn't be mistreated, but terrorists are a whole 'nuther ballgame.

Was she even torturing? I thought she just made the bad guys feel kinda bad or embarrassed. Did she cut any limbs off that I don't know about?
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:43:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 11:49:10 AM EST by trwoprod]
Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By Screechjet1:
How many officers took the fall for that nonsense?

I'm pretty sure the answer was "zero."


You have to prove they knew about the torture and did nothing.


That's not quite true. The two people that were implicated –– Sanchez and that rather square-jawed one star –– were spectacularly overworked and both have been described as being less than hugely capable. That's a bad combination. At the same time, courtesy of official policy from Bush and Rumsfeld, the folks coming in to professionalize the interrogations were being encouraged to do exactly what was done.

This is all the result of what another liberal Republican –– Bush's daddy –– did when he did everything possible to drive mid-level professionals out of the military. There were simply too few people left who knew how to run a prison, for instance.

ETA:

I was not being clear. The immediate chain of command did not know what was going on. However the people who were coming in from Guantanamo to do the training were coming in specifically to set up the situation that got captured on film because that sort of behavior was policy, approved by Bush and Rumsfeld. The fact that the people were unsupervised was what got the one star demoted and Sanchez forced to retire, not the fact that the abuse was going on –– because the abuse was policy. They skirted that issue pretty well.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:43:30 AM EST
I do think what she did was wrong, but I think she got thrown under the bus.

I have this gut feeling that she was picked for that detail because they wanted the Muj to get handled roughly by a female.

Dogs and Women are two things Iraqi men seem to hate.

I'm not saying she did right, only that she did what she was told.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:43:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By wingnutx:
She's an unprofessional dirtbag who her country and the Army a grave disservice.



+1
.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:44:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By JellyBelly:
Originally Posted By 20iner:

Originally Posted By poink:
Originally Posted By lamarbrog:
In before everyone lets us know she is a hero.



...Hearts and minds FAIL.


Or before someone brings up the whole 'its no worse than college hazing' nonsense.
I don't know about that, but I will say that I don't give a flying fuck about what happens to terrorists. I'm not saying what she did was right, but who fucking cares about the feeling of terrorists?



Enemy combatants picked up off the battlefield shouldn't be mistreated, but terrorists are a whole 'nuther ballgame.

Was she even torturing? I thought she just made the bad guys feel kinda bad or embarrassed. Did she cut any limbs off that I don't know about?


No limbs cut off, just abusive behavior as she was ordered to do.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:44:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:
I do think what she did was wrong, but I think she got thrown under the bus.

I have this gut feeling that she was picked for that detail because they wanted the Muj to get handled roughly by a female.

Dogs and Women are two things Iraqi men seem to hate.

I'm not saying she did right, only that she did what she was told.


Isn't that what you sign up to do? She was a patsy, no doubt...

Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:47:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 11:49:45 AM EST by p331083x2]
Originally Posted By trwoprod:
Originally Posted By poink:
Originally Posted By 20iner:

Originally Posted By poink:
Originally Posted By lamarbrog:
In before everyone lets us know she is a hero.



...Hearts and minds FAIL.


Or before someone brings up the whole 'its no worse than college hazing' nonsense.
I don't know about that, but I will say that I don't give a flying fuck about what happens to terrorists. I'm not saying what she did was right, but who fucking cares about the feeling of terrorists?




Sorry but the Military has codes of conduct that we abide by, and what they did was pretty god damn disgraceful. All she did was emboldened more radicals in the middle east and shamed our country. Let alone how the hell can you do that to another human being?
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:47:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:
I do think what she did was wrong, but I think she got thrown under the bus.

I have this gut feeling that she was picked for that detail because they wanted the Muj to get handled roughly by a female.

Dogs and Women are two things Iraqi men seem to hate.

I'm not saying she did right, only that she did what she was told.

Why was it done after hours and without officer knowledge?
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:48:28 AM EST
I FEEL that those poor enemy combatants were mistreated. I FEEL sooo sorry for them. Those meanie soldiers. How dare they be angered over losing their friends to cowardly goat rapist women beating terrorists?
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:51:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By FREEFALLE7:
While I don't totally blame her, the stupid bitch gave the Taliban the tools need to further their cause.

I don't give a damn if you line up all the Taliban and put a bullet in their head, just don't post the damn pics on the internet.

Her and her Chain of Commands stupidity caused the deaths of countless Americans. They all need to still be in jail.

For that she can go to hell as far as i'm concerned.

FREE



This sums it up pretty well. In the eyes of many Iraqis we went from Liberators to just another tyrannical occupier thanks to her actions and pictures. How many Iraqis since changed sides and fought against us as a result of what she did will never be known, but one can be damned sure that very few Iraqis (if any) did the opposite....

Fucking Bitch is responsible for needless death of countless Americans and now she's looking to profit from it. Rot in hell, bitch!

Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:51:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By p331083x2:
Originally Posted By trwoprod:
Originally Posted By poink:
Originally Posted By 20iner:

Originally Posted By poink:
Originally Posted By lamarbrog:
In before everyone lets us know she is a hero.



...Hearts and minds FAIL.


Or before someone brings up the whole 'its no worse than college hazing' nonsense.
I don't know about that, but I will say that I don't give a flying fuck about what happens to terrorists. I'm not saying what she did was right, but who fucking cares about the feeling of terrorists?




Sorry but the Military has codes of conduct that we abide by, and what they did was pretty god damn disgraceful. All she did was emboldened more radicals in the middle east and shamed our country. Let alone how the hell can you do that to another human being?


You aren't actually quoting me.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:51:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:
I do think what she did was wrong, but I think she got thrown under the bus.

I have this gut feeling that she was picked for that detail because they wanted the Muj to get handled roughly by a female.

Dogs and Women are two things Iraqi men seem to hate.

I'm not saying she did right, only that she did what she was told.

Why was it done after hours and without officer knowledge?



Plausible deniability.

I was at FOB Abu Graihb in 06 (running combat ops outside the wire) and I can assure you that it is a 24 hour facility.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:52:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By ChrisLe:
Originally Posted By FREEFALLE7:
While I don't totally blame her, the stupid bitch gave the Taliban the tools need to further their cause.

I don't give a damn if you line up all the Taliban and put a bullet in their head, just don't post the damn pics on the internet.

Her and her Chain of Commands stupidity caused the deaths of countless Americans. They all need to still be in jail.

For that she can go to hell as far as i'm concerned.

FREE



This sums it up pretty well. In the eyes of many Iraqis we went from Liberators to just another tyrannical occupier thanks to her actions and pictures. How many Iraqis since changed sides and fought against us as a result of what she did will never be known, but one can be damned sure that very few Iraqis (if any) did the opposite....

Fucking Bitch is responsible for needless death of countless Americans and now she's looking to profit from it. Rot in hell, bitch!



I agree. Perhaps this should be walked up the chain of command? For real this time?
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:57:35 AM EST
This may be useful for reading.

Full Taguba report website.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:59:28 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 12:00:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:


I have this gut feeling that she was picked for that detail

She was a paper pusher from another area. She was only in the lockdown area because she was visiting her boyfriend while she was off duty.

Link Posted: 6/13/2009 12:03:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By FREEFALLE7:
While I don't totally blame her, the stupid bitch gave the Taliban the tools need to further their cause.

I don't give a damn if you line up all the Taliban and put a bullet in their head, just don't post the damn pics on the internet.

Her and her Chain of Commands stupidity caused the deaths of countless Americans. They all need to still be in jail.

For that she can go to hell as far as i'm concerned.

FREE






Seriously, that right there should be the end of the thread.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 12:03:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By trwoprod:
Originally Posted By JellyBelly:
Originally Posted By 20iner:

Originally Posted By poink:
Originally Posted By lamarbrog:
In before everyone lets us know she is a hero.



...Hearts and minds FAIL.


Or before someone brings up the whole 'its no worse than college hazing' nonsense.
I don't know about that, but I will say that I don't give a flying fuck about what happens to terrorists. I'm not saying what she did was right, but who fucking cares about the feeling of terrorists?



Enemy combatants picked up off the battlefield shouldn't be mistreated, but terrorists are a whole 'nuther ballgame.

Was she even torturing? I thought she just made the bad guys feel kinda bad or embarrassed. Did she cut any limbs off that I don't know about?


No limbs cut off, just abusive behavior as she was ordered to do.



She went to prison for hurting some people's feelings?
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 12:04:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By JellyBelly:
Originally Posted By trwoprod:
Originally Posted By JellyBelly:
Originally Posted By 20iner:

Originally Posted By poink:
Originally Posted By lamarbrog:
In before everyone lets us know she is a hero.



...Hearts and minds FAIL.


Or before someone brings up the whole 'its no worse than college hazing' nonsense.
I don't know about that, but I will say that I don't give a flying fuck about what happens to terrorists. I'm not saying what she did was right, but who fucking cares about the feeling of terrorists?



Enemy combatants picked up off the battlefield shouldn't be mistreated, but terrorists are a whole 'nuther ballgame.

Was she even torturing? I thought she just made the bad guys feel kinda bad or embarrassed. Did she cut any limbs off that I don't know about?


No limbs cut off, just abusive behavior as she was ordered to do.



She went to prison for hurting some people's feelings?


No, she went to prison for following orders.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 12:08:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By wingnutx:

Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:


I have this gut feeling that she was picked for that detail

She was a paper pusher from another area. She was only in the lockdown area because she was visiting her boyfriend while she was off duty.




I still have a hard time buying that, but it may be true. Your MOS, and what you end up doing in country are two different things.

I punched out patrols with COOKS because they had talked their way into going outside the wire.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 12:11:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By Chris_C:
In this deeply disturbing interview, the trailer trash torturer


I stopped reading after that.




No shit...


Wonder what itdiot wrote this crap...not much of a "journalist".

Yes, the bitch in question is piece of white trash.....
I'd hit it....with a plunger
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 12:13:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By wingnutx:

Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:


I have this gut feeling that she was picked for that detail

She was a paper pusher from another area. She was only in the lockdown area because she was visiting her boyfriend while she was off duty.



Even paper pushers are breifed on LOAC (LAW OF ARMED CONFLICT).

No excuse for what she did.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 12:13:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By FREEFALLE7:
While I don't totally blame her, the stupid bitch gave the Taliban the tools need to further their cause.

I don't give a damn if you line up all the Taliban and put a bullet in their head, just don't post the damn pics on the internet.

Her and her Chain of Commands stupidity caused the deaths of countless Americans. They all need to still be in jail.

For that she can go to hell as far as i'm concerned.

FREE





You hit it right on the head. The whole thing was a result of poor Officer and NCO leadership, if they had at least good NCO leadership this fiasco would have not happened. Good NCO's would not have allowed that BS to carry on, it would have been nipped in the bud very early.

Link Posted: 6/13/2009 12:16:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By pv74:
Originally Posted By wingnutx:

Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:


I have this gut feeling that she was picked for that detail

She was a paper pusher from another area. She was only in the lockdown area because she was visiting her boyfriend while she was off duty.



Even paper pushers are breifed on LOAC (LAW OF ARMED CONFLICT).

No excuse for what she did.

I know. I am saying that I do not believe that she was ordered by her chain of command to do what she did.
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