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Posted: 9/7/2004 10:38:19 AM EST
I just finished doing my part of an interview with a woman that is applying for a position at my company. She just has to be able to use Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc.

On her resume she stated that she was an expert in Word and Excel, so I had her run through a few tests on a computer. She didn't know how to create a new folder, change margins, create pivot tables, select printers, import a picture into a document.......the list goes on. She said "Oh, this doesn't look like what I've used before".

So the questions is: Why would someone list easily verifiable skills, that they don't have, on a resume? This was the third round of interviews, and she basically has wasted all of our time. WTF?????
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 10:39:30 AM EST
You know how dumb the average person is, right?

Half of them are dumber than that.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 10:39:52 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 10:40:02 AM EST
I used to get this all the time when helping the employment dept at work. People don't expect tests.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 10:41:31 AM EST
I see there is still a lingering "fake it 'til you make it" attitude out there. The IT field is full of folks with that attitude.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 10:41:58 AM EST
Yikes, three interviews for a cog? That is some serious outlay of cash for a replaceable part.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 10:43:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By DPeacher:
I see there is still a lingering "fake it 'til you make it" attitude out there. The IT field is full of folks with that attitude.



And it's exactly why this field sucks
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 10:46:56 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 10:49:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By USMC2111:
I just finished doing my part of an interview with a woman that is applying for a position at my company. She just has to be able to use Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc.

On her resume she stated that she was an expert in Word and Excel, so I had her run through a few tests on a computer. She didn't know how to create a new folder, change margins, create pivot tables, select printers, import a picture into a document.......the list goes on. She said "Oh, this doesn't look like what I've used before".

So the questions is: Why would someone list easily verifiable skills, that they don't have, on a resume? This was the third round of interviews, and she basically has wasted all of our time. WTF?????



Pivot tables give me fits......
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 10:50:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:

Originally Posted By yellow5:

Originally Posted By DPeacher:
I see there is still a lingering "fake it 'til you make it" attitude out there. The IT field is full of folks with that attitude.



And it's exactly why this field sucks



It could be worse, you could be a highly qualified tech who only gets calls back when you take crap out of your resume, then once you get a telephone screening, they realize that you are more qualified for the supervisors job than they are, and they tell you you are overqualified.



Yeah I have seen that happen, not to me personally but some companies I've worked for do that.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 10:53:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By hielo:
Yikes, three interviews for a cog? That is some serious outlay of cash for a replaceable part.



Well just remember this...Hire in haste, Repent in leisure.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 10:55:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By W-W:

Originally Posted By hielo:
Yikes, three interviews for a cog? That is some serious outlay of cash for a replaceable part.



Well just remember this...Hire in haste, Repent in leisure.



Your not hiring a surgeon, your hiring a glorified typist. THe faster you do that the cheaper and better. If it doesn't work out, get rid of that one and plug a new one in.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 10:58:21 AM EST
I expected her not to be able to do some of the tasks (pivot tables), I just wanted to gauge the depth of her knowledge. I first asked her to create a new folder on the desktop. When she couldn't do that, I knew things were going down hill. It was painful to watch as she scrambled for excuses.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 11:01:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:

Originally Posted By yellow5:

Originally Posted By DPeacher:
I see there is still a lingering "fake it 'til you make it" attitude out there. The IT field is full of folks with that attitude.



And it's exactly why this field sucks



It could be worse, you could be a highly qualified tech who only gets calls back when you take crap out of your resume, then once you get a telephone screening, they realize that you are more qualified for the supervisors job than they are, and they tell you you are overqualified.



Fake it til you make it was how I started my career. Granted, I always was upfront in telling them what I was and wasn't versed in. Being honest but letting them know there wasn't anything I could not do got me a lot of jobs and propmotions along the way.

But it ended up that I had to start cutting stuff out of my resume because I became overqualified. I interviewed at Bank of America for an InfoSec job and they told me I was a very impressive candidate but that I was completely overqualified for the job and would hate the position. I respected their view, but I was not looking forward to foreclosure on my house.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 11:02:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By hielo:

Originally Posted By W-W:

Originally Posted By hielo:
Yikes, three interviews for a cog? That is some serious outlay of cash for a replaceable part.



Well just remember this...Hire in haste, Repent in leisure.



Your not hiring a surgeon, your hiring a glorified typist. THe faster you do that the cheaper and better. If it doesn't work out, get rid of that one and plug a new one in.



It's doesn't work that way dude, especially in a larger company...
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 11:04:16 AM EST

Congrats for not falling into the trap she set.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 11:06:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By W-W:

Originally Posted By hielo:

Originally Posted By W-W:

Originally Posted By hielo:
Yikes, three interviews for a cog? That is some serious outlay of cash for a replaceable part.



Well just remember this...Hire in haste, Repent in leisure.



Your not hiring a surgeon, your hiring a glorified typist. THe faster you do that the cheaper and better. If it doesn't work out, get rid of that one and plug a new one in.



It's doesn't work that way dude, especially in a larger company...



It works EXACTLY that way at the $15 billion a year company where I work. YMMV.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 11:08:33 AM EST
The thing that irritates me is the growing industry in providing FAKE univeristy degrees. A lot of places have apaprently becaome very slick at setting up webpages with pictures of supposed campuses (usually overseas), and even provide phone numbers to speak to "registrars" or university "officials" so that employers can verify the degrees.

I fucking hate CHEATERS and FRAUDS - in all walks of life.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 11:08:43 AM EST

Your not hiring a surgeon, your hiring a glorified typist. THe faster you do that the cheaper and better. If it doesn't work out, get rid of that one and plug a new one in.


It doesn't work like that especially if the job is more than a typist. The job in question is an office manager that pretty much will run the administrative side of the house. Most candidates have at least a Bachelor's and 10+ years of experience.


Link Posted: 9/7/2004 11:11:02 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 11:12:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 11:16:42 AM EST by parr28922]
can I have the job, doing it through excel using xp.

1) to create an new folder. click on file then open then you right click in the white are and select new then folder, the you type in a name.

2) to change a margin click on file then select and page setup and then click on the margin tab

3)to select a printer, you click on file then select printer and then you choose from the printers listed if the one you want isn't listed you use the find printer button and search other the lan to find the printer that you want to use

4) to import a pic, select insert then picture then from file

5) to create a pivot table, to give you an exact answer I have to know what the data is. but to use the wizard you select data and then choose the pivottable pivotgraph wizard and select the data ranges to be used.

Did she atleast know how to us the help feature!!!!!!!!!!


I do need a job, but I don't think there are many man that are office managers. Plus spelling isn't my best skill. I do (did) web development and web design. And was a sales manager for a pre-paid cellphone company.

Link Posted: 9/7/2004 11:17:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By USMC2111:
I just finished doing my part of an interview with a woman that is applying for a position at my company. She just has to be able to use Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc.

On her resume she stated that she was an expert in Word and Excel, so I had her run through a few tests on a computer. She didn't know how to create a new folder, change margins, create pivot tables, select printers, import a picture into a document.......the list goes on. She said "Oh, this doesn't look like what I've used before".

So the questions is: Why would someone list easily verifiable skills, that they don't have, on a resume? This was the third round of interviews, and she basically has wasted all of our time. WTF?????



Don't be surprised if lawyers from the EEOC come and pay a visit. You violated numerous laws with the testing procedure not to mention the fact when she finds out she was the only one tested.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 11:19:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 11:19:32 AM EST by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By JohnnyP:

Originally Posted By USMC2111:
I just finished doing my part of an interview with a woman that is applying for a position at my company. She just has to be able to use Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc.

On her resume she stated that she was an expert in Word and Excel, so I had her run through a few tests on a computer. She didn't know how to create a new folder, change margins, create pivot tables, select printers, import a picture into a document.......the list goes on. She said "Oh, this doesn't look like what I've used before".

So the questions is: Why would someone list easily verifiable skills, that they don't have, on a resume? This was the third round of interviews, and she basically has wasted all of our time. WTF?????



Don't be surprised if lawyers from the EEOC come and pay a visit. You violated numerous lawswith the testing procedure not to mention the fact when she finds out she was the only one tested.



Can you explain in more detail how the EEOC was violated IN ANY WAY ??

What laws were violated??
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 11:21:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By W-W:

Originally Posted By hielo:

Originally Posted By W-W:

Originally Posted By hielo:
Yikes, three interviews for a cog? That is some serious outlay of cash for a replaceable part.



Well just remember this...Hire in haste, Repent in leisure.



Your not hiring a surgeon, your hiring a glorified typist. THe faster you do that the cheaper and better. If it doesn't work out, get rid of that one and plug a new one in.



It's doesn't work that way dude, especially in a larger company...



It works EXACTLY that way at the $15 billion a year company where I work. YMMV.



I'm sure your HR Dept and Corporate Attny would be glad to discuss it with you.


Link Posted: 9/7/2004 11:21:56 AM EST
I tried to sue a company once because they wouldn't hire me because I was a white male. all there employees were black. And they hired a black person in my place I know because I know him. But my claim was denied because there is no organazation to fight for my rights =(. I'm not racist but I thought the company in question was.

Link Posted: 9/7/2004 11:23:40 AM EST
I have no idea what a pivot table is. Sounds kinky, though. Post pics, please.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 11:24:54 AM EST

Don't be surprised if lawyers from the EEOC come and pay a visit. You violated numerous lawswith the testing procedure not to mention the fact when she finds out she was the only one tested.


Uh, what?

All candidates will be getting the same test. EEOC compliance only becomes an issue if I tested only women, or Hispanics, Irish, green men from Mars, etc.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 11:26:05 AM EST
I had a guy apply recently, ex-Air Force on his paperwork, claimed to be a MOH recepient.

Looks like there were only a few AF types that got it, and he wasn't one.

I was not happy.

Link Posted: 9/7/2004 11:31:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
The thing that irritates me is the growing industry in providing FAKE univeristy degrees. A lot of places have apaprently becaome very slick at setting up webpages with pictures of supposed campuses (usually overseas), and even provide phone numbers to speak to "registrars" or university "officials" so that employers can verify the degrees.

I fucking hate CHEATERS and FRAUDS - in all walks of life.



They are turning out TEACHERS at Long Beach State through federal and state grant programs that are a sham. Guess they need new (read cheap) teachers badly. Point being that legitimate degrees are pretty suspect (not universally) as I have seen the process and the product.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 11:33:01 AM EST
parr28922, I'm not sure if she knew about the Help function. She was actually the top candidate until then because she had previous experience in our industry. She also set off one other interviewer's BS detector.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 11:39:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 11:47:40 AM EST by parr28922]
i stink at interviews I hate the type of questions they ask. Why do you want this job. Duh, to make money so I can stop living in a carboard box.

Or when they ask you to describe a weakness or one of your strenghts.

I always mess up on these questions, and I know alot about computers but I can't pull up all random questions on the spot. please give me 5 lines of code in visual basic.net to develop a computer program to calculate atompsheric pressure.

Hell If I was a genuis at computers I sure wouldn't be sitting here trying to get a 45-50K job I would be out hacking into banks and getting some real cash.

Link Posted: 9/7/2004 12:12:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By hielo:

Originally Posted By W-W:

Originally Posted By hielo:
Yikes, three interviews for a cog? That is some serious outlay of cash for a replaceable part.



Well just remember this...Hire in haste, Repent in leisure.



Your not hiring a surgeon, your hiring a glorified typist. THe faster you do that the cheaper and better. If it doesn't work out, get rid of that one and plug a new one in.


You're asking for trouble, when you hire someone who doesn't have the requisite skills. When you hire a person, and that person can make all sorts of trouble for you by complaining to vaious govt agencies, especially if the new employee is a women, and plus that worker comes under a bunch of different laws protecting employees. It is best not to hire unqualified people to begin with.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 12:55:43 PM EST
15 billion? that's a little company. When I worked for Hughes and Raytheon, we tested for a few positions, not many. If you are going to test, it needs to be the same test and test bona fide occupational qualification, and you test everybody. Then you have no EEOC problems. I know if I had my share of discussions with the EEOC, OFCCP and state Labor Boards.

And getting rid of somebody isn't really that easy, especially if they get past the policy "probationary" period. Then you have to use a step process. Unless you fing the falsified an application, that can be immediate termination, falsifying a resume isn't.

And 3 pepl interviewing is not all that unreasonable for some positions. I preferred to do a brief screen on the phone, have the hiring manager do a screen on the phone, some were confident enough in my screening abilities to bring them in after I said OK. but I'm not a technical expert in many field, I do have a very good BS detector though.. 3 is about right. HR, Supervisor and Department Manager. Engineers or programmers or senior managers might get several more depending on the pay scale and what the responsibilities are.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 1:12:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By PaDanby:

And 3 pepl interviewing is not all that unreasonable for some positions.

Engineers or programmers or senior managers might get several more depending on the pay scale and what the responsibilities are.



Tell me about it .. going through the interview process now and my last one was with six different people over a four and a half hour timespan ... never talked so much in my life.

I have a friend who worked for a staffing firm and it was amazing to hear the stories of how people lied about their skills or tried to get away with using degrees from non-accredited institution - however nothing pissed him off more than people who failed background checks after being told that a background check was being run on them. Responses ranged from "oh yeah ... uhhh ... I didn't think that would come up" to "you mean a felony shows up on those things?"
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 1:19:08 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 1:20:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
i may...or may not...have exaggerated a little to get this job as a nuclear weapons designer at sandi labs.









... you didn't mention your Chinese citizenship?
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 1:21:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By arowneragain:

Originally Posted By USMC2111:
I just finished doing my part of an interview with a woman that is applying for a position at my company. She just has to be able to use Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc.

On her resume she stated that she was an expert in Word and Excel, so I had her run through a few tests on a computer. She didn't know how to create a new folder, change margins, create pivot tables, select printers, import a picture into a document.......the list goes on. She said "Oh, this doesn't look like what I've used before".

So the questions is: Why would someone list easily verifiable skills, that they don't have, on a resume? This was the third round of interviews, and she basically has wasted all of our time. WTF?????



Pivot tables give me fits......



I can do a lot of stuff with Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Project etc...but I've never created a pivot table that I know of. But, I'd put that I'm proficient at Excel on a resume...

People lie because they think they'll get a few questions and then you'll like the way they talk or look.....

Link Posted: 9/7/2004 1:23:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
I have no idea what a pivot table is. Sounds kinky, though. Post pics, please.





ohhhh



Link Posted: 9/7/2004 1:36:33 PM EST
That's about all excel is good for. Lame reports for accountants or pivot tables.

Did you ask how many years experience she had with each product you tested on. Did you ask her about versions & etc. make stuff up to see if she was legit?
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 1:40:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By COZ_45:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:

Originally Posted By USMC2111:
I just finished doing my part of an interview with a woman that is applying for a position at my company. She just has to be able to use Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc.

On her resume she stated that she was an expert in Word and Excel, so I had her run through a few tests on a computer. She didn't know how to create a new folder, change margins, create pivot tables, select printers, import a picture into a document.......the list goes on. She said "Oh, this doesn't look like what I've used before".

So the questions is: Why would someone list easily verifiable skills, that they don't have, on a resume? This was the third round of interviews, and she basically has wasted all of our time. WTF?????



Pivot tables give me fits......



I can do a lot of stuff with Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Project etc...but I've never created a pivot table that I know of. But, I'd put that I'm proficient at Excel on a resume...

People lie because they think they'll get a few questions and then you'll like the way they talk or look.....




Well, if its a leggy blonde and she shows up for the interview carrying her kneepads...
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 1:44:20 PM EST
But did she claim to know how to use an apostrophe?
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 1:01:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By wedge1082:
img28.exs.cx/img28/511/ackbar-trap2.jpg
Congrats for not falling into the trap she set.



Link Posted: 9/8/2004 1:07:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
15 billion? that's a little company.





======================================================

Step 1. Quit job.

Step 2. Work for yourself.

Step 3. Be happy.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 1:08:42 AM EST
People lie about even worse things. I know of a woman that lied about having a degree from FSU. Not only does she not have said degree, but has never even lived in Tallahassee.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 1:24:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By yellow5:
I used to get this all the time when helping the employment dept at work. People don't expect tests.



I've busted 2 "qualified" CAD operator candidates in the last 6 weeks the same way.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 2:00:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By a3kid:

Originally Posted By yellow5:
I used to get this all the time when helping the employment dept at work. People don't expect tests.



I've busted 2 "qualified" CAD operator candidates in the last 6 weeks the same way.



Don't get me started on CAD operators! I work for a GC and I know more about CAD than most of the architects & engineers that give me drawings. Layers, motherfucker, L-A-Y-E-R-S!
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 2:14:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/8/2004 2:16:13 AM EST by Oslow]
I'm way over qualified for any job that requires me to go to work every day.

I'm an expert on just about everything.

And I never heard of a pivot table.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 2:41:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By USMC2111:
I just finished doing my part of an interview with a woman that is applying for a position at my company. She just has to be able to use Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc.

On her resume she stated that she was an expert in Word and Excel, so I had her run through a few tests on a computer. She didn't know how to create a new folder, change margins, create pivot tables, select printers, import a picture into a document.......the list goes on. She said "Oh, this doesn't look like what I've used before".

So the questions is: Why would someone list easily verifiable skills, that they don't have, on a resume? This was the third round of interviews, and she basically has wasted all of our time. WTF?????



I had the EXACT same scenario recently only the applicant was a male. Resume said the same shi'ite, Word and Excel. I have asked him repeatedly for reports and he keeps telling me that he'll finish the report at home and have it on my desk in the morning. I know that he is having his girlfriend do the reports and then brings them to work the next day as if he did them. (Oh well, everyone here has a 90 probation period. At the end of 90 days either he gets it or he gets out.)
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 2:50:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:
It could be worse, you could be a highly qualified tech who only gets calls back when you take crap out of your resume, then once you get a telephone screening, they realize that you are more qualified for the supervisors job than they are, and they tell you you are overqualified.




Preaching to the choir... been in the IT job market for three years. Thankfully the company I work for is stable, just non-challenging.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 3:15:51 AM EST
Thanks guys, I had to go and make a piviot table.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 3:44:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By USMC2111:
Lying on Resume's



Not a good idea.

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