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12/11/2018 1:58:31 AM
Posted: 11/17/2018 10:19:27 AM EST
My department has normally required officers to supply their own patrol rifle if they wanted one. I was told the other day that the department has the funds to buy 15 rifles but could only spend $600-$750 per rifle. They will be getting optics, lights, slings and mags from local a business so that is covered.

We can get normal 16" M&P rifles for that price no problem but they would really prefer to get 10.5"-12" barrel rifles. I could not come up with a company that makes a inexpensive SBR that was in that price range from a brand I would want to carry. Does anyone know of a brand that can meet that price point on a order of 15 rifles?
Link Posted: 11/17/2018 10:24:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bajorn5:
My department has normally required officers to supply their own patrol rifle if they wanted one. I was told the other day that the department has the funds to buy 15 rifles but could only spend $600-$750 per rifle. They will be getting optics, lights, slings and mags from local a business so that is covered.

We can get normal 16" M&P rifles for that price no problem but they would really prefer to get 10.5"-12" barrel rifles. I could not come up with a company that makes a inexpensive SBR that was in that price range from a brand I would want to carry. Does anyone know of a brand that can meet that price point on a order of 15 rifles?
View Quote
Have your procurement section contact Smith and Wesson Law Enforcement sales directly. They should be able to sell SBRs to the agency.
Link Posted: 11/17/2018 10:25:31 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/17/2018 10:37:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2018 10:38:14 AM EST by ColtRifle]
Muni agency or rural?

Does that price point include lights and maybe optics? If so, you're probably out of luck.

I'd also check out PSA
Link Posted: 11/17/2018 11:03:50 AM EST
you could get an assembled 11.5 or 10.5 upper and assembled lower from aero precision for that price.
Link Posted: 11/17/2018 11:46:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2018 12:43:41 PM EST by Bajorn5]
Just the rifle the optic, light sling and mags are being donated. Rural 17 deputy sheriffs office. I will probable have to call S&W on Monday and see what is needed for a quote. Can the rifles be mailed on a form 5 from any dealer or manufacture directly to the agency? That was one of the things I was not sure about. One of the deputies has a BCM SBR and I have my Noveske SBR but they are personally owned and well out of the price range. One of the lowest quotes we got for regular 16" rifles was from S&W so is their any reason to not go with them?
Link Posted: 11/17/2018 12:05:13 PM EST
FN, SIG, Colt, and even H&K LE sales.

Our HK416D's cost 875 per unit.
Link Posted: 11/17/2018 5:40:25 PM EST
I sent you an IM with some info
Link Posted: 11/17/2018 10:16:26 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bajorn5:
Just the rifle the optic, light sling and mags are being donated. Rural 17 deputy sheriffs office. I will probable have to call S&W on Monday and see what is needed for a quote. Can the rifles be mailed on a form 5 from any dealer or manufacture directly to the agency? That was one of the things I was not sure about. One of the deputies has a BCM SBR and I have my Noveske SBR but they are personally owned and well out of the price range. One of the lowest quotes we got for regular 16" rifles was from S&W so is their any reason to not go with them?
View Quote
I think very short barrel guns are less than ideal for rural agencies. I'd go with 14.5 or 16 inch rifles.

When I purchased guns for an agency, they were purchased with agency letterhead and mailed directly to the department. It did require chief LEO signature though.
Link Posted: 11/18/2018 3:06:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2018 8:02:53 PM EST by Cdm1985]
If you can convince your brass to spare an additional $39 per rifle, this FN 15 can be had for $789.

If you want an SBR, this Armalite M15 11.5 SBR can be had for $750.

Other brands to consider are PSA and Aero Precision. Good luck!

ETA the above mentioned FN can be had for $689 here. I’m not sure what quantity they have, but that’s a great deal.
Link Posted: 11/19/2018 12:03:03 PM EST
We used to buy Core rifles for the patrol guys. After some issues that I won't go into here, we're buying 16" S&W M&P15s.
Link Posted: 11/19/2018 12:19:55 PM EST
Sons of Liberty Gun Works. Plus if you have to use it on-duty, while it is in lock-up/pending investigation, they will send you a replacement stick so you are not left with out.
Link Posted: 11/19/2018 6:23:18 PM EST
Talk to the LEO Rep Todd Coons @
Windham Weaponry. You will be very happy
with weapon & servce.
Link Posted: 11/21/2018 7:53:14 AM EST
Professionals use colt.
Link Posted: 11/21/2018 10:58:13 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By espantoonMP:
Professionals use colt.
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And other brands.
Link Posted: 11/21/2018 11:18:57 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By espantoonMP:
Professionals use colt.
View Quote
And FN.....and BCM....and others.

CBP is fielding brand new BCM uppers for all of their rifles
Link Posted: 11/21/2018 3:56:22 PM EST
What’s the rationale behind SBRs? We use the M&P-15TS for patrol here and I’ve yet to have an issue with the pinned 14.5” set up
Link Posted: 11/22/2018 7:46:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2018 7:52:39 AM EST by BenWa]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CountryBoy541:
Sons of Liberty Gun Works. Plus if you have to use it on-duty, while it is in lock-up/pending investigation, they will send you a replacement stick so you are not left with out.
View Quote
Our department got the magpul patrol rifles. I think $750 each (Leo pricing).

Send them an email/call. They are very LEO friendly, and great rifles.

This rifle
Link Posted: 11/23/2018 6:24:41 PM EST
Try Alex Pro Firearms

Good local outfit that supplies all the local law enforcement agencies around us. Never had an issue with any of their rifles. I know they do an LEO discount... They might even do a discount for a larger order for agencies. They have all different sizes. We just got 11.5" SBR full autos with the Ferfrans system. They are tac drivers and the quality is there. Ask for Garrett.

https://www.apfarmory.com
Link Posted: 11/24/2018 11:29:22 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
What’s the rationale behind SBRs? We use the M&P-15TS for patrol here and I’ve yet to have an issue with the pinned 14.5” set up
View Quote
Because they are smaller and more compact.
Link Posted: 11/25/2018 12:37:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/25/2018 12:40:31 AM EST by Hexxus]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ColtRifle:

I think very short barrel guns are less than ideal for rural agencies.
View Quote
And why is that...

And please don't say for accuracy reasons.
Link Posted: 11/25/2018 9:20:58 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Castillo:

Because they are smaller and more compact.
View Quote
They are? Wow

Anyways; still waiting for an actual answer
Link Posted: 11/25/2018 9:30:54 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Hexxus:

And why is that...

And please don't say for accuracy reasons.
View Quote
Increased wear on parts, reduced velocity, agency has to be hyper conscious of ammo selection, shorter guns can be less reliable, etc. 14.5 - 16” eliminates most of these issues while increasing handguard size (depending on configuration)
Link Posted: 11/25/2018 10:06:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/25/2018 6:06:55 PM EST by ColtRifle]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
Increased wear on parts, reduced velocity, agency has to be hyper conscious of ammo selection, shorter guns can be less reliable, etc. 14.5 - 16” eliminates most of these issues while increasing handguard size (depending on configuration)
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
Originally Posted By Hexxus:

And why is that...

And please don't say for accuracy reasons.
Increased wear on parts, reduced velocity, agency has to be hyper conscious of ammo selection, shorter guns can be less reliable, etc. 14.5 - 16” eliminates most of these issues while increasing handguard size (depending on configuration)
Take a round that is dependent on velocity for effectiveness and take the velocity away. What do you have?

If you are only clearing a small building, a short barrel rifle will be fine. If you are sitting on a perimeter of a 500 acre field, effective range is important.
Link Posted: 11/25/2018 1:26:40 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/25/2018 8:22:55 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
They are? Wow

Anyways; still waiting for an actual answer
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
Originally Posted By Castillo:

Because they are smaller and more compact.
They are? Wow

Anyways; still waiting for an actual answer
It was a good answer.
The compact aspect is important when maneuvering with the long gun
Link Posted: 11/25/2018 8:43:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/25/2018 8:54:44 PM EST by NCPatrolAR]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tc556guy:

It was a good answer.
The compact aspect is important when maneuvering with the long gun
View Quote
Compactness/lack of is less of an issue than people make out.; especially in rural uniformed operations.
Link Posted: 11/25/2018 8:55:59 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Compactness/lack of is less of an issue than people make out.; especially in rural operations.
View Quote
Maybe, maybe not. It's easier maneuvering in and around buildings, and if you're going to throw a can on the end, a short barrel is the way to go
Link Posted: 11/27/2018 2:12:17 AM EST
One other thing to think about. If going with a 10.5” you’re gonna need either a can or a good set of ear pro......
Link Posted: 11/29/2018 9:31:35 AM EST
Looks like Geissele will soon be offering two different options to LE starting at $750. Here is the link.
Link Posted: 11/29/2018 9:45:48 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Cdm1985:
Looks like Geissele will soon be offering two different options to LE starting at $750. Here is the link.
View Quote
I opened this thread to post the same link.
Link Posted: 11/29/2018 11:01:54 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/5/2018 4:47:05 AM EST
We got our Colt 6933's from Amchar for $815ea
Link Posted: 12/5/2018 4:53:55 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bajorn5:
Just the rifle the optic, light sling and mags are being donated. Rural 17 deputy sheriffs office. I will probable have to call S&W on Monday and see what is needed for a quote. Can the rifles be mailed on a form 5 from any dealer or manufacture directly to the agency? That was one of the things I was not sure about. One of the deputies has a BCM SBR and I have my Noveske SBR but they are personally owned and well out of the price range. One of the lowest quotes we got for regular 16" rifles was from S&W so is their any reason to not go with them?
View Quote
Go with Vortex for the optics. With ARs being $400-500 for civilians, and the Sparc being $120, $600 for a rifle optic and light for an agency is easy
Link Posted: 12/5/2018 7:47:36 AM EST
we went with hardened arms, contacted them and told the the specifics we needed and I think they hooked us up with 650 or so with rails.

Just an option
Link Posted: 12/6/2018 12:43:59 PM EST
I would call Sionics and Sons of Liberty. They both offer high quality and focus on the LE segment. They could probably get close to your budget if you give them a shot

I would go buy my own gun if my agency tried to give me something like Radical or Hardened arms
Link Posted: 12/8/2018 5:19:33 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Spydermonkey:
We got our Colt 6933's from Amchar for $815ea
View Quote
This is the way to go, if you must have an SBR. I think a 16" carbine is a better choice for a patrol rifle- the Colt 6720 with an Aimpoint is about ideal. SBRs are handier and easier to use in really tight quarters, but the 'disadvantage' of a 16" barrel in anything but an attic or a crawlspace is overblown, IMO. Many people go for SBRs because of the cool factor, rather than an honest assessment of their needs.

SBRs can be extremely accurate, but the real disadvantage is decreased muzzle velocity (plus they tend to be more ammo/maintenance sensitive, harder on parts, etc.) If you must go with SBRs, I would pick a good barrier blind round such as the 75 grain Gold Dot. It was designed for use in short barreled rifles, and gives excellent penetration through barriers and very good terminal performance on people.

I would not pick the SBR for your purposes. If you decide to go that route, go with the Colt. Based on some of my people's experience with Smith and Wesson patrol rifles, I wouldn't touch them with a ten-foot pole, nor would I risk my officers' lives on Johnny Bag O'Donuts' high-speed operator rifle that some guy I don't know says is great.

If you do pick the SBR, ammo selection is absolutely critical. If your administration saddles you with any sort of lightweight hollowpoint, ballistic tip, or (God forbid) ball ammo, DO NOT go the SBR route.

Sully posted some excellent information- please read it if you have not.

For everyone who's gonna post about how I'm an idiot because their S&W rifles have been flawless or their Brand X rifles are the cheerleader's titties, that's great. I'm truly glad you're having good luck. This is just my opinion, and it's non-binding on anyone's weapon selection process . :)
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