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Posted: 10/13/2004 10:56:22 AM EST
California Lottery Winner Shot To Death by Seattle Police

............

Associated Press

SEATTLE (AP) -- A man shot to death by police outside a football stadium has been identified by his family as one of the winners of an $87 million lottery jackpot.

Rick Camat, 32, was shot early Sunday as dozens of people fled to avoid a fight outside a bar before a St. Louis Rams-Seattle Seahawks game.

Police alleged that Camat was carrying a handgun and fired at a car that was leaving the area. Authorities said he crouched behind another vehicle and pointed a handgun at officers.

Relatives insisted Camat only fired into the air to break up the fight and said officers never issued a warning before shooting him.

"He shot once in the air to scare people away. He didn't aim it at anyone," said Camat's brother, Brian, who was with him at the time.

Officer Debra Brown said the family's account "differs vastly from the statements of dozens of witnesses who were at the scene that evening."

The officer who fired at Camat remains on paid administrative leave. An internal police review and a court inquest are planned.

Camat was one of 13 Starbucks employees in Los Angeles who shared an $87 million California lottery jackpot in 2000.

He recently bought a house in Federal Way, a suburb between Seattle and Tacoma, relatives said. He previously used his share of the lottery winnings to buy a house for his mother and cars for his siblings.

Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:00:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
California Lottery Winner Shot To Death by Seattle Police

............

Associated Press

SEATTLE (AP) -- A man shot to death by police outside a football stadium has been identified by his family as one of the winners of an $87 million lottery jackpot.

Rick Camat, 32, was shot early Sunday as dozens of people fled to avoid a fight outside a bar before a St. Louis Rams-Seattle Seahawks game.

Police alleged that Camat was carrying a handgun and fired at a car that was leaving the area. Authorities said he crouched behind another vehicle and pointed a handgun at officers.

Relatives insisted Camat only fired into the air to break up the fight and said officers never issued a warning before shooting him.

"He shot once in the air to scare people away. He didn't aim it at anyone," said Camat's brother, Brian, who was with him at the time.

Officer Debra Brown said the family's account "differs vastly from the statements of dozens of witnesses who were at the scene that evening."

The officer who fired at Camat remains on paid administrative leave. An internal police review and a court inquest are planned.

Camat was one of 13 Starbucks employees in Los Angeles who shared an $87 million California lottery jackpot in 2000.

He recently bought a house in Federal Way, a suburb between Seattle and Tacoma, relatives said. He previously used his share of the lottery winnings to buy a house for his mother and cars for his siblings.






I ain't saying the cops necessarily should have shot him, BUT firing a gun in the air to break up a fighting crowd is about the dumbest fucking thing you could do.

Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:01:59 AM EST
At least their dog is ok.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:03:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By wedge1082:
At least their dog is ok.


And the officers went home safe!
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:03:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 11:03:38 AM EST by _Ugly_]

Originally Posted By 223-Buckaroo:


I ain't saying the cops necessarily should have shot him, BUT firing a gun in the air to break up a fighting crowd is about the dumbest fucking thing you could do.




+1
What a dumbass.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:05:08 AM EST
natural selection rocks!

i hope he hasn't reproduced
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:05:22 AM EST
Bum luck

Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:05:51 AM EST
Not knowing all the facts make it tough to call but if you were a cop on the scene (mass confusion) heard a shot and saw that gun pointing in your general direction, what would you do?
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:07:19 AM EST
So it really is true, If you are rich and die, you are guaranteed full press coverage!
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:14:59 AM EST
The police say he shot at someone, the family says he shot into the air. The police better be able to extract the bullet from a near by building or car. If not, more than a few people are going down.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:16:26 AM EST
The guy was pretty stupid shooting the gun in the air. That's gang or spighetti western shit and totally inappropriate in the real world...what if the projectile comes down on someone. People that do shit like this make it tough for law abiding citizens to retain their rights. I don't know if it was worth killing the guy over, but I wasn't there and therefore can't judge and convict the policeman.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:20:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By newbushmaster:
The police say he shot at someone, the family says he shot into the air. The police better be able to extract the bullet from a near by building or car. If not, more than a few people are going down.




You really shouldn't give an opinion of something of which you have no clue.
No one is "going down". Did you catch the part about the family's version differing from the dozens of witnesses? Whether he fired into the air is moot in any case. He was shot after he took cover and pointed a weapon. That results in Darwinian self-selection. Gotta love it.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:21:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 11:29:49 AM EST by Mauser101]
"You can take the trash out of the trailer park, but you can never take the trailer park out of the trash."

...luckily, you CAN just plain take out the trash.

If I were a betting man I'd put money on him having puchased the gun after he won the lottery. Lot of winners are said to become accutley aware of just how unsafe the world really is once their name is published next to a bunch of zeros.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:28:00 AM EST
Police 1, Shitbag 0

HOOAH!

Natural Selection Ownz.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:29:18 AM EST
Pulling out his handgun during a fight he wasn't involved in to any great extent was dumb. Firing into the air was even dumber (What goes up must come down!) What were the police to think, when they see/hear this Darwin Award candidate firing his weapon?

It ain't even close. Good shoot.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:31:04 AM EST
what a dumbass. who did he think he was, shyne?
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:44:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

Originally Posted By newbushmaster:
The police say he shot at someone, the family says he shot into the air. The police better be able to extract the bullet from a near by building or car. If not, more than a few people are going down.




You really shouldn't give an opinion of something of which you have no clue.
No one is "going down". Did you catch the part about the family's version differing from the dozens of witnesses? Whether he fired into the air is moot in any case. He was shot after he took cover and pointed a weapon. That results in Darwinian self-selection. Gotta love it.





Did you catch the part where the police spokesperson was the one who stated that the dozens of witnesses had a different story than guys family. They are in the midlle of an investigation and should have said no such thing to the public.

No one witness has the same story as the guy next to him, let alone all agree on one event directly after it happened, ever.

All that only speaks to the reasoning that the guy fired on someone and shots were retured, then he was killed. If he pointed a weapon and an office or anyone there without cause, the officers were justified.

"You really shouldn't give an opinion of something of which you have no clue." Ooookay, Matlock.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:44:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 11:46:20 AM EST by KA3B]
This was on the local Seattle news last night.

Three witnesses stated that the police tried to get the guy to put the gun down.
One guy said that the guy pointed the gun at him and his wife.

www.komotv.com/news/qtmovie.asp?ID=33486

After splitting the lotter winnings 13 ways he got about $7 million.


Wednesday, October 13, 2004 · Last updated 5:50 a.m. PT

California lottery winner shot to death

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS



SEATTLE -- A man shot to death by police outside a football stadium has been identified by his family as one of the winners of an $87 million lottery jackpot.

Rick Camat, 32, was shot early Sunday as dozens of people fled to avoid a fight outside a bar before a St. Louis Rams-Seattle Seahawks game.

Police alleged that Camat was carrying a handgun and fired at a car that was leaving the area. Authorities said he crouched behind another vehicle and pointed a handgun at officers.

Relatives insisted Camat only fired into the air to break up the fight and said officers never issued a warning before shooting him.

"He shot once in the air to scare people away. He didn't aim it at anyone," said Camat's brother, Brian, who was with him at the time.

Officer Debra Brown said the family's account "differs vastly from the statements of dozens of witnesses who were at the scene that evening."

The officer who fired at Camat remains on paid administrative leave. An internal police review and a court inquest are planned.

Camat was one of 13 Starbucks employees in Los Angeles who shared an $87 million California lottery jackpot in 2000.

He recently bought a house in Federal Way, a suburb between Seattle and Tacoma, relatives said. He previously used his share of the lottery winnings to buy a house for his mother and cars for his siblings.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apus_story.asp?category=1110&slug=Lottery%20Winner%20Shooting
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:51:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 11:56:27 AM EST by monkeyman]
Cops 1, dumb ass low life 0

BTW, this wouldn't have even made the press if he hadn't won the lottery. Like winning money somehow makes you respectable.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:54:16 AM EST
newbushamster, please do not talk about police and law enforcement if you have no idea about what goes on out there. You have never been shot at, or had your life threatened with a gun or knife. It is very easy for you and the rest of the public to judge what happens three days later when the officer only had a fraction of a second. Bottom line......we go home at the end of the night!!!
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:56:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By KA3B:







HA! What'd I say?!


"You can take the trash out of the trailer park, but you can never take the trailer park out of the trash."

...luckily, you CAN just plain take out the trash.

Link Posted: 10/13/2004 12:00:56 PM EST
I would certainly hope that a police officer would do his/her best to assess the situation before just shooting somebody who had fired a shot in their presence. Lawful self defense does happen, you know...

As for this guy...well, he obviously didn't take cover well enough. :-)
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 12:03:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By charliehorse794:
newbushamster, please do not talk about police and law enforcement if you have no idea about what goes on out there. You have never been shot at, or had your life threatened with a gun or knife. It is very easy for you and the rest of the public to judge what happens three days later when the officer only had a fraction of a second. Bottom line......we go home at the end of the night!!!


Link Posted: 10/13/2004 12:06:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By newbushmaster:
The police say he shot at someone, the family says he shot into the air. The police better be able to extract the bullet from a near by building or car. If not, more than a few people are going down.



+1
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 12:09:13 PM EST
If I am standing around at 2 am after the bars let out and some fucking moron starts shooting his gun off I hope the police are there to put an end to the stupid motherfuckers life so I can go home safely that night.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 12:09:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By charliehorse794:
newbushamster, please do not talk about police and law enforcement if you have no idea about what goes on out there. You have never been shot at, or had your life threatened with a gun or knife. It is very easy for you and the rest of the public to judge what happens three days later when the officer only had a fraction of a second. Bottom line......we go home at the end of the night!!!





I also stated, "If he pointed a weapon and an office or anyone there without cause, the officers were justified." Which is what appears to have happened.


Police shootings, like any other shooting, should be questioned. Do not lump me in with any other group of mear "civilians".

Link Posted: 10/13/2004 12:19:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By charliehorse794:
newbushamster, please do not talk about police and law enforcement if you have no idea about what goes on out there. You have never been shot at, or had your life threatened with a gun or knife. It is very easy for you and the rest of the public to judge what happens three days later when the officer only had a fraction of a second. Bottom line......we go home at the end of the night!!!



Holy Shit!
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 12:36:23 PM EST
And of course we know that this one really is GWs fault!
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 12:44:13 PM EST
did they let his dog get away?
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 1:13:27 PM EST
gee, sounds like a verse from an Alanis Morrisette song
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 1:18:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 1:18:32 PM EST by Cincinnatus]

Relatives insisted Camat only fired into the air to break up the fight and said officers never issued a warning before shooting him...


"Look out! He's got a gun, AND HE'S FIRING IT!"

"Calm down Steve, he MIGHT just be firing warning shots, in our direction. You never know..."

"Gosh Bob, you're right. I guess I over-reacted."
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 1:35:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:



Hey! That Cincinnatus....no...disregard...its not...
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 1:38:38 PM EST
It's just a new avatar, c'mon.
It's STILL me inside.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 1:38:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By charliehorse794:
newbushamster, please do not talk about police and law enforcement if you have no idea about what goes on out there. You have never been shot at, or had your life threatened with a gun or knife. It is very easy for you and the rest of the public to judge what happens three days later when the officer only had a fraction of a second. Bottom line......we go home at the end of the night!!!





Hello. Have you met tcsd1236?
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 1:41:46 PM EST
Do not criticise the police. Civilians simply do not know what they are talking about.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 1:48:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By charliehorse794:
newbushamster, please do not talk about police and law enforcement if you have no idea about what goes on out there. You have never been shot at, or had your life threatened with a gun or knife. It is very easy for you and the rest of the public to judge what happens three days later when the officer only had a fraction of a second. Bottom line......we go home at the end of the night!!!



You're going to fit in here just fine.

As far as the "It is very easy for you and the rest of the public to judge what happens three days later when the officer only had a fraction of a second", people judge my actions as a doctor all the time after the fact. Just because I may have had a fraction of a second to make a decision doesn't excuse a wrong decision. There were plenty of unbiased ie. non-family witnesses other than the police so a general true sequence of events will be fleshed out.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 1:49:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mahatma8Rice:
Do not criticise the police. Civilians simply do not know what they are talking about.



Who the hell you callin' a civilian?!?!
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 1:54:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 1:56:07 PM EST by fight4yourrights]

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

California Lottery Winner Shot To Death by Seattle Police





I'd be pissed that bastard won that much money too!



Originally Posted By Mauser101:

"You can take the trash out of the trailer park, but you can never take the trailer park out of the trash."

...luckily, you CAN just plain take out the trash.
.



+1
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:01:13 PM EST
Hey --- that's my cousin, who is the Atty. handling his estate ???
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:09:33 PM EST
It's obvious that the guy was firing his gun into the air to disperse the crowd. The police should have fired a warning shot into the air, then tazered him into compliance, if necessary.... I mean the guy was a LOTTERY WINNER, for God's sake!

HEADS ARE GONNA ROLL!!!!

<­BR>
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:17:11 PM EST
87Mil buys alot of Lawyers, The cop is finished.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:22:30 PM EST
I recently heard that the goberment was going to start cracking down on millionaires.


1. So does this mean he was taxed at 35% on his winnings.

2. There of course is the 50% Death Tax (Unless he had a Family Trust setup)

3. He leaves 15% for his family and friends to remember him and to file lawsuits on the city.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:29:23 PM EST
When's the estate sale? LOL

Definitely an argument for natural selection at work...

Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:31:48 PM EST
WTF is wrong with people? I guess they won't even be happy when police departments can't return fire until the officer has been shot twice. Fuck him!

Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:32:26 PM EST
I bet he had the birdman nite sites on his gun.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:43:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By garr:
87Mil buys alot of Lawyers, The cop is finished.



Not here in Seattle he's not, just ask Carl Mack or Leslie Braxton about cops who shoot minorities.


Brother of slain man disputes police account

In the four years since Rick Camat won the California lottery, he quit his job at Starbucks, cut his ties with a gang in West Los Angeles and moved to Federal Way.

Friends and relatives say that with the financial freedom provided by the nearly $6.5 million he won, Camat had a chance to escape L.A. and build a new life.

Camat, 32, was shot to death by a Seattle police officer Sunday.

Police say Camat was shot after he fired a gun into a crowd of bar-goers and Seahawks fans in a Qwest Field parking lot, and then turned the weapon on officers.

Brian Camat, 27, the man's younger brother, who was at the scene of the shooting, said the police account is untrue and that his brother had fired a gun into the air to break up a fight between their friends and another group of men. He said his brother never turned a gun on police.

A police spokeswoman, Officer Debra Brown, said Camat's story "differs vastly from the statements of dozens of witnesses who were at the scene that evening."

Camat said he doesn't know what sparked the argument that escalated into a fistfight.

"All of a sudden I see my brother pull out a gun. He shot once in the air to scare people away," Camat said. "He didn't aim it at anyone."

Camat said his brother was running to his car when police showed up.

"Officers didn't tell him to freeze or anything," he said. "They shot a few rounds at my brother when his back was turned."

Camat said police handcuffed him, making him unable to help his bleeding brother, who died shortly after he was shot.

The Camat brothers and five friends had spent Saturday night at the Downunder, a Pioneer Square nightclub. After leaving the club, one of the people in their group got into an argument with a man outside Tiki Bob's Cantina, 166 S. King St. Brian Camat said that during the dispute, he and his brother were punched and that was when Rick Camat pulled out a gun.

Police responded to the Tiki Bob's fight. When they were finished there, three officers headed over to the north parking lot of Qwest Field, where another fight had broken out.

As police got closer, they saw a man fire a gun, panicking the nearby crowd, Brown said.

Police said the three officers drew their weapons and asked Rick Camat to drop the gun and get on the ground. They say he turned his 9-mm semiautomatic gun on officers.

Police and the King County Medical Examiner's Office had not officially released the shooting victim's name.

Rufina Manansala, the Camat brothers' mother, sobbed when she talked about her oldest son's death.

"I don't know the reason," Manansala, of Los Angeles, said yesterday from Brian Camat's home. "He's a very good guy. He doesn't know any trouble."

Rick Camat became a media celebrity after he and 12 co-workers at a Los Angeles Starbucks split the proceeds of an $87 million California SuperLotto Plus jackpot in October 2000.

The winnings are being paid over 26 years, Brian Camat said. California lottery officials say the remaining installments will become part of Rick Camat's estate.

Manansala said her son used his lottery winnings to buy her and her husband, Regidor, a new house. Rick Camat's friends said he regularly bought them gifts and picked up the tab when they went out.

"If he could help, he was always willing to help," said Brian Camat. "He was always willing to help everyone."



Brother claims he was shot in the back while he was running away. (fleeing felon?)

They'd been out to the bars.

You can't carry a pistol into a bar in Washington, even if you have a CPL.

I like how some articles spin this into "before a St. Louis Rams-Seattle Seahawks game. " Lets assume this happened when the bars closed for the night, calling the 2am time frame "before a St. Louis Rams-Seattle Seahawks game. " that doesn't start for 11 hours is damn dishonest. They make it sound like it happened after the church going goody too-shoes dead guy had just finished having a wonderal brinch buffet instead of being out all night boozing it up.


Police officer kills man near Qwest Field

By Natalie Singer
Seattle Times Eastside bureau



Seattle police leaders said that one of their officers had no choice but to shoot a man who allegedly fired a gun in Pioneer Square just as bars were letting out early yesterday.

The man, whose identity had not been released, was pronounced dead at the scene.

The officer, whose identity also had not been released, was placed on administrative assignment while the incident is investigated.

The shooting took place in the 100 block of King Street near Qwest Field, in an area where football fans were camped out for the Seattle Seahawks game yesterday afternoon against the St. Louis Rams.

Investigators said officers had just finished responding to a disturbance at Tiki Bobs Cantina about 2 a.m. when they saw a fight break out in the north parking lot of Qwest Field.

Police officials said three uniformed officers headed toward the lot and saw the man fire a gun at least once toward a car leaving the area, causing nearby crowds just leaving the bars to panic and run.

The officers drew their weapons and repeatedly asked the man to drop the gun and get down on the ground, according to police statements yesterday.

According to police, the man, who had taken refuge behind a car, refused to comply and turned his gun toward the police.

One officer fired at the man, who dropped his weapon and fell to the ground. The man, who was less than a car length away from the officer who shot him, appeared to have been hit more than once, police said.

Between 50 and 100 people were on the streets and sidewalks at the time, police said. No one else was injured.

Police described the man as 25 to 32 years old and said he had a 9-mm semi-automatic weapon. Police think the man was shooting at one or more people who were involved in the fight. They sped away in a vehicle before police could question them, investigators said.

"We'd like to know how many people were involved," said Cindy Miller, assistant chief of investigations for the Seattle Police Department.

"We'd like to talk to them," Miller said. "Not that they're in trouble or anything; we just want to clarify what happened."

Police officials said statements were taken from 10 witnesses who corroborated the officers' accounts of the events.

"One citizen wanted to thank the officer for saving their life," Miller said.

The 42-year-old officer who shot and killed the man has been on the force for 12 years and works in the department's West Precinct as a patrol and training officer.

The officer has never before been in an officer-involved shooting, police leaders said yesterday.

Following department policy, the King County Prosecutor's Office will conduct an inquest.



archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=policeshoot11m&date=20041011&query=shooting+police
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:54:52 PM EST
Shooting into the air to disperse a crowd? Yeah, pretty stupid and ineffective, especially around cops!
Let's see, the last time I recall someone who tried to disperse a crowd by firing in the air was those two English corporals back in '88 who drove into an IRA funeral in Belfast. Uh, yeah, they both ended up dead too.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:58:18 PM EST
hed still be alive if he were white.



Link Posted: 10/13/2004 3:29:33 PM EST

Relatives insisted Camat only fired into the air to break up the fight and said officers never issued a warning before shooting him.
Issued a warning shot? WTF? Do we live in the 1950's? There is NO SUCH THING as a "warning shot" anymore and has not been one for many years. Can You imagine trying to explain how you "warning shot" struck an innocent bystander either on the scene or wherever the round landed? That's a sure way to lose your LEO job.


"He shot once in the air to scare people away.
OK, so we go out bar hopping with a gun in our pocket, get into a little fistfight, pull the gun out, fire a shot in the air to stop the swarming crowd, then point said weapon at the responding police? Why didn't he just hang a freakin' sign on his neck saying" I am a drunken asshole, I have a loaded weapon, and I feel like scaring a crowd of people with it, so kill me now"

Way I see it is that the ex-ghetto asshole was showing his true colors and died because of it.

Too bad.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 3:49:29 PM EST
I just hope the dumbshit was smart enought to put me into his will.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 6:04:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By AZ_Hi_Desert:
Pulling out his handgun during a fight he wasn't involved in to any great extent was dumb. Firing into the air was even dumber (What goes up must come down!) What were the police to think, when they see/hear this Darwin Award candidate firing his weapon?

It ain't even close. Good shoot.



+1

In FL , the law allows a CWL holder to involve him/herself in a situation "to stop a forcible felony." The instructor in the course (a former police officer) said to forget that. "You are not a cop!" I agree. If it's not family or myself, I truly have no right to present force. ANd, in a violent situation, a police officer sees you with a gun - REALLY DUMB! Keep it put away, no shooting, walk the other way from trouble.

(And, I may ahve to learn AZ law in a few months)
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