Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 9/18/2004 7:11:39 AM EST
63.99.108.76/ubb/Forum8/HTML/012381.html


(Venting)
So today I decide to try out iTunes. What prompted this? Well, I've been ripping a lot of my CDs lately for my mp3 player, and wanted to fill in some missing tracks.

I set up the software, get my Apple ID, provide credit card info, and start browsing for music. Armed with a list of about fifteen pop songs from the '60s through the '90s, I only succeed in finding about eight of them available for download. The other seven are either missing completely or only available in the form of some punk band's tongue-in-pierced-cheek cover. Sometimes, searching for a song from the Billboard Top Ten for a particular year turns up nothing but links to albums made by aging hippy couples in Alaska for labels like Windham Hill.

So I take those eight tracks that I found and purchase them, which means they download to my hard drive and are now mine to do with as I will, right? Wrong. You see, in Steve Jobs' idea of a socialist utopia, you don't own music, you just pay to listen to it on their player, in some proprietary format. If this is the state of legally downloadable music, then, God Almighty, it's a wonder more people aren't pirating music.

Now I'm pissed, but grateful that I didn't find those other files, since I'd have flushed another seven bucks down the iDrain. I log into Apple's site to cancel my account. Oops, I guess there's no way to cancel on their website. Guess I'll just e-mail someone with my request, and ask them to please shut off my Apple ID and clear all that credit info I provided them.

After searching around for a few minutes, I spot a line of text which boils down to, "Due to the complicated nature of bull**** excuse bull****, we do not provide customer support by e-mail. Thank you for your money and your gullibility."

So while I grumble from time to time about XP, and I have Annoyances.org bookmarked, an indication that Microsoft is by no means a perfect organization, they have my support. Bury these snotty, turtlenecked fascists for me, Bill. And the next Apple Kool-Aid drinker who spouts off to me about the virtues of iTunes, I'm bend him over, take his iPod away from him and do something with it that will DEFINITELY void his AppleCare warranty.

Last person to unass iTunes, "switch" the damn lights out.

Update - After posting this rant, I did a brief web search and found a workaround to the "file protection" in iTunes. Inconvenient, but at least it's recovered my $8 investment, and now I know better.

[Edited by Tiemler (17 Sep 2004).]



Link Posted: 9/18/2004 7:14:08 AM EST
You can burn it to a regular cd format and then turn it back to mp3 if you want.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 7:14:56 AM EST
The WMP10 music download system is actually pretty cool. I'd use it, if I paid for music.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 7:15:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 12:03:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:

Originally Posted By Stormtrooper:
You can burn it to a regular cd format and then turn it back to mp3 if you want.



At a considerable loss of quality.



I guess for the hard core audiophiles you can tell the difference, but I can't. So burning them to MP3's works fine. My wife doesnt even tell the difference. We play these songs on the home stereo, the car stereo, ipod, computer, etc. and we can't tell a difference.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 12:08:16 PM EST
The guy needs to do more reading. Microsoft has announced they're going to do even worse things with their new DRM. Apple is only trying to protect the music. Microsoft is trying to do something like that to every file on your system.z
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 12:13:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By Stormtrooper:
You can burn it to a regular cd format and then turn it back to mp3 if you want.



You shouldn't have to do that to music that you purchased in the first place.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 12:23:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By painrx:

Originally Posted By Stormtrooper:
You can burn it to a regular cd format and then turn it back to mp3 if you want.



You shouldn't have to do that to music that you purchased in the first place.



Well dont you back up anything else you put on your computer? What if you had a hard drive failure of some magnitude and you couldnt recover anything? Guess your SOL. Sorry, I back up everything INCLUDING music or software I purchase online.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 12:24:18 PM EST
There will always be ways to circumvent the copyguard as long as you know where to look.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 12:25:43 PM EST
Microsoft Digital Rights Management (DRM)
www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/drm/default.aspx



Originally Posted By zoom:
The guy needs to do more reading. Microsoft has announced they're going to do even worse things with their new DRM. Apple is only trying to protect the music. Microsoft is trying to do something like that to every file on your system.z

Link Posted: 9/18/2004 12:27:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2004 12:28:03 PM EST by cyanide]

Originally Posted By Stormtrooper:
There will always be ways to circumvent the copyguard as long as you know where to look.



show us --------- this is America

Information is not illegal ----yet
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 12:29:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 12:31:54 PM EST
Try looking here

Link
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 12:38:18 PM EST
I thought you downloaded tracks in AAC format from iTunes, which is a little better quality than mp3. No one is giving downloads in AIFF. Why would you turn the AAC into CD (AIFF) format then re-import in mp3? Maybe I missed something. OK, maybe if you're not using an iPod which can read AAC. What's the limitations that are bugging you 'cause others DRM systems seem about the same or worse.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 12:52:38 PM EST
Yeah, DRM sucks, but doesn't every legal music download service do basically the same thing?
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 1:00:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By nightstalker:
I thought you downloaded tracks in AAC format from iTunes, which is a little better quality than mp3. No one is giving downloads in AIFF. Why would you turn the AAC into CD (AIFF) format then re-import in mp3? Maybe I missed something. OK, maybe if you're not using an iPod which can read AAC. What's the limitations that are bugging you 'cause others DRM systems seem about the same or worse.



Itunes purchases are in .m4p, the "p" meaning "protected" by DRM, as opposed to .m4a (MPEG-4 audio). CD's you import into itunes can be imported as .mp3 or .m4a.

Itunes purchases (.m4p) can be played on up to 4 devices/computers, per Apple's DRM.

If you want to change .m4p to .m4a (or any other format) you need to burn to CD and reimport, or use a conversion app. I don't think Apple cares, so long as you don't then distribute your conversions, or otherwise violate "personal use" archival laws and such.

As far as the .m4a/p quality goes, it's quite good. Files are relatively small, and sound great. I've got my whole library in .m4a, and have no complaints. The format can also be used store album art inside the song file, which is really cool.

Link Posted: 9/18/2004 1:09:00 PM EST
Two words. Kazaa Lite.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 1:20:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By moneyshot:

Originally Posted By painrx:

Originally Posted By Stormtrooper:
You can burn it to a regular cd format and then turn it back to mp3 if you want.



You shouldn't have to do that to music that you purchased in the first place.



Well dont you back up anything else you put on your computer? What if you had a hard drive failure of some magnitude and you couldnt recover anything? Guess your SOL. Sorry, I back up everything INCLUDING music or software I purchase online.



That analogy is completely irrelevant to what we're talking about. If you purchase the rights to listen to a song, you should be able to listen to it as you please. But I guess you like to be told what to do and how to do it. With thinking like that you were probably content with the AWB. (NOTICE: relevant analogy)

BTW for people with sizable mp3 collections cd's are a completely inefficient way of backup. My personal collection is more than 80 gigs in size. It would take me about 115 cd's to back up my collection and mine pales in comparison to many others. My preferred method is to use a separate hard drive since it's extremely faster and the longevity of the stored data far exceeds that of any burned cd.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 1:22:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By mandingo:
Try looking here

Link



How long have you used their service? I've really been wanting to try it but I am hesitant about giving some Rooskie my credit card info.

BTW before anyone starts in, that site is completely legal.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 1:27:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By painrx:

Originally Posted By mandingo:
Try looking here

Link



How long have you used their service? I've really been wanting to try it but I am hesitant about giving some Rooskie my credit card info.

BTW before anyone starts in, that site is completely legal.



It's "legal" under Russian Law, or so they claim, but infringes on US copyrights. ie. it IS NOT LEGAL.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 1:41:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By painrx:

Originally Posted By moneyshot:

Originally Posted By painrx:

Originally Posted By Stormtrooper:
You can burn it to a regular cd format and then turn it back to mp3 if you want.



You shouldn't have to do that to music that you purchased in the first place.



Well dont you back up anything else you put on your computer? What if you had a hard drive failure of some magnitude and you couldnt recover anything? Guess your SOL. Sorry, I back up everything INCLUDING music or software I purchase online.



That analogy is completely irrelevant to what we're talking about. If you purchase the rights to listen to a song, you should be able to listen to it as you please. But I guess you like to be told what to do and how to do it. With thinking like that you were probably content with the AWB. (NOTICE: relevant analogy)

BTW for people with sizable mp3 collections cd's are a completely inefficient way of backup. My personal collection is more than 80 gigs in size. It would take me about 115 cd's to back up my collection and mine pales in comparison to many others. My preferred method is to use a separate hard drive since it's extremely faster and the longevity of the stored data far exceeds that of any burned cd.



You can store the iTunes music wherever you please. The limitations is where you can play the music. Straight from Apple's website:


You can burn individual songs onto an unlimited number of CDs for your personal use, listen to songs on an unlimited number of iPods and play songs on up to five Macintosh computers or Windows PCs.

Link Posted: 9/18/2004 1:50:31 PM EST
So that's all it took? He didn't get what he wanted so darn it, he stomped his widdle feet and took his ball and went home?

Pfft.

I'm a die hard mac user ("Macman") but I don't use the iTunes music service. I got almost all of the one hit wonders I ever wanted back before Napster went Lamester. I think if Apple worked it out (hopefully based on volume of users) to where a single track would cost 25 cents (or less) I think they'd have a mega killer app and you'd win over more of the illegal downloaders they spend so much to get. But the record companies would never allow it.

This guy just wanted to complain about Macs. Oh well.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 1:54:19 PM EST
All I have to say is OSX Rocks !
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 1:58:47 PM EST
It's a lame rant. The songs that aren't on iTunes are usually restricted by the record labels and/or artists, so they aren't going to be on any legal download service. LIkewise the copy protection--if you want to be legal it's going to have copy protection.

The real villians are the record labels. They're trying to cling to an outmoded distribution system that gives them huge profits and screws the artists. They should be selling songs for a quarter or fifty cents over the net. As it is Apple is selling them for a buck, and not really making any money on that aspect of the business. They make their money selling iPods.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 5:19:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By painrx:

Originally Posted By moneyshot:

Originally Posted By painrx:

Originally Posted By Stormtrooper:
You can burn it to a regular cd format and then turn it back to mp3 if you want.



You shouldn't have to do that to music that you purchased in the first place.



Well dont you back up anything else you put on your computer? What if you had a hard drive failure of some magnitude and you couldnt recover anything? Guess your SOL. Sorry, I back up everything INCLUDING music or software I purchase online.



That analogy is completely irrelevant to what we're talking about. If you purchase the rights to listen to a song, you should be able to listen to it as you please. But I guess you like to be told what to do and how to do it. With thinking like that you were probably content with the AWB. (NOTICE: relevant analogy)

BTW for people with sizable mp3 collections cd's are a completely inefficient way of backup. My personal collection is more than 80 gigs in size. It would take me about 115 cd's to back up my collection and mine pales in comparison to many others. My preferred method is to use a separate hard drive since it's extremely faster and the longevity of the stored data far exceeds that of any burned cd.



Nice try (golf clap)
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 6:12:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By mcgredo:
The real villians are the record labels. They're trying to cling to an outmoded distribution system that gives them huge profits and screws the artists. They should be selling songs for a quarter or fifty cents over the net.



I can never understand some of these arguements. Why are the record labels the villians? No one is forcing the artists to sign up with them especially in this age of the internet where the artist could very easily setup their own form of distribution and bypass the record label. No one is forcing you the consumer, to buy CD's from the record label. It would seem a Capitalistic economy that if people were truly fed up with the RIAA then they would just not buy the product. Instead what we see is people trying to jusitfy why they steal music off the internet. If it is not the evil RIAA it is that the music itself that sucks and that CD's should be cheaper. The ironic part of this whole arguement is that it is total bullshit. Take for instance an example I gave in some other thead on this subject....movie videos. Back in the 80's VHS tapes could run up into the $80 range. Quality sucked. Laser Disc's came out, prices dropped, quality improved. Presently we have DVD's, which have quality that far exceeds VHS tapes in every area from quality to price. A better product at a cheaper price. Does that stop people from bootlegging movies? Of course not. Even if the RIAA sold songs for 50 cents over the internet people would still try to obtain the data without paying for it.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 6:14:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2004 6:15:21 PM EST by dmaas]
ALL legal online music systems have those exact problems, only worse. (record labels not allowing their music to be sold, onerous restrictions on what you can do with the files, etc). iTunes was a major breakthrough because it has far fewer restrictions than previous services (like being able to burn music to CD at all). We would all love to see a system with no restrictions, but the record companies will never let that happen.

That said, I'm no Mac fan either. I have a fairly nice G4 at work but I use it as little as possible. It's just too annoying and flaky. (the darn thing shipped with a defective hard disk, and apple tech support refused to replace it or even believe that it was shipped DOA)
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 6:17:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By zoom:
The guy needs to do more reading. Microsoft has announced they're going to do even worse things with their new DRM. Apple is only trying to protect the music. Microsoft is trying to do something like that to every file on your system.z



Witch is why I refuse to run WMP9.
Top Top