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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 7/7/2002 5:50:59 PM EST
Hello all, (posting this here and in the tactics/training forum, please let me know which will get more or better answers) My wife is ex military from a long time ago and she always regretted not getting weapons training. Is there anywhere that a civilian can learn and shoot the course of fire used by the army for rifle qualification? She got into the military when women were still not being trained in weapon use, but by the time she got out of the army, weapons training was a requirement for re-enlistment. As she didn't re-up she missed out on weapons training and qualification. She has been ogling a pre-ban AR15 at a shop near here and I would like to get it for her and find a way for her to take something like a military course of fire for M-16. It would be a great xmas/birthday/anniversary gift. Thanks for any information.
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 11:26:23 PM EST
Well, generally speaking the Army way of doing things works fine for the Army, but is sometimes not the best for individuals. There's a few instances (like flight training) where the Army was better than anything you'd find in the civillian world, but really she'd be better off just learning the basics from an NRA certified private instructor. Most of your local ranges should have an idea of who does that sort of stuff. You can find one and it's usually pretty cheap as well. I'd say handgun training is probably more prevelent than rifle, but they're out there. The quality of training she will get from an instructor, even in a small class, will far surpass anything she would have received from the Army, which is assembly line style to say the least. As mentioned F23-9 has the scoop on the Army's marksmenship program. I would get the pamphelts/books from the NRA on rifle shooting/competition as well. They're pretty well written, good info, and easy to use. I wouldn't get all into competition until hse actually has the basics down. Competition is great, but there's no sense in overwhelming any new shooter with that scene. You want to make the training as easy and as comfortable as possible. There are probably several members of this board that are near you that could help as well. If you're anywhere near SE Virginia, I'd be glad to help out anyway I could. The Army uses pop-up target ranges for qual. It's doubtful that you'd have access to one of those, but the "alternate C" target is basically a series of targets on one sheet of paper. They are scaled for use at 25m, but 25yds is close enough. They have different targets of different sizes on them, that represent what the target would look like at 300M, 250m, etc. You simply shoot the targets at 25m and score it. It doesn't give you the range/elevation and windage practice, but it's better than nothing. You can find them on the net and at gunshows, etc. If you can't find any, let me know and I'll see if I can find any for you. The best thing any new shooter can do is just learn the basics of safety and shooting and porgress from there. The AR is quite an easy gun to shoot well. Ross
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 5:45:44 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 6:10:15 AM EST
ok let me clarify a little here. Annie (my wife) already knows the basics of shooting and I'll be the one teaching her to shoot anything new that we get. what we are interested in is the course of fire used for I guess you'd call it qualification and grading. in other words the pass/fail, marksman, expert, whatever course. the course of fire used to determine whether a person has to retake the training portion, is adequate with a rifle, or is in fact a damned good shooter. and of course I would truly like to get ahold of the course lay out from before the inception of the "train fire" reactive course thank you
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 8:46:01 AM EST
OK, with the M16 it's pretty simple. You shoot at pop-up targets from 50-300meters. You have 40 target exposures and 40 rds. All hits are scored as hits (which is the way it would be in real life). There is no scoring other than that. No specific points system. You hit 36 targets and you're expert, 30 targts and you're sharpshooter, 23 targets and you're marksman. You'd need the pop-up target range out to 300meters to do it right. On the alternate table "C" (25m on scaled targets) you need to score 38, 33, and 26 respectively because it's easier to do it. The Army went to this system, because it pretty much refelcted the real-life combat situations that it has faced since WWII. It sounds like you want something more closer to what the USMC does for qual. I'll have to handover to the Marines for that. The last Army manual that I saw that had anything to do with rifle marksmanship of the type(i.e. real rifle marksmanship[;)]) you're refering to was from the 50's. Ross
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