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Posted: 11/21/2012 1:12:02 PM EST
So, my wife's Ranger is 10 years old, but with only 86,000 miles on it. It is still in great shape and runs well, but it's 10 years old with 86,000 miles on it.

I'm starting to think it's time to replace it.

Around the first of the year we'll be in a position to pay cash for a replacement vehicle. Probably an F150 of some sort, but that's not important.

What I want to know is how do I get the best deal:

A) pretend I need to finance it through their preferred bank
B) tell them from the get-go I'm going to pay cash and negotiate from there
C) don't bring it up and negotiate a price, whipping out the checkbook when we've agreed
D) get a certified check from my bank for a price I think should be fair for what we want and go in waving that
E) something else

Aaaaand ... Go!
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 1:16:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 1:18:51 PM EST by speedracer422]
To get the best deal, you should pick out what you like, then look up the invoice on edmunds
Ask for invoice minus rebates; agree to finance, but disregard the payments they give you.

Get the selling price as close to invoice minus rebates as you can.
Finance it then write check for full amount to finance company when it comes.
You want to agree to finance it so they will get money "on the back end"; this will make them more willing to sell it to you for invoice or even close to net.
They honestly don't care if you pay it off right away, they still get their check from the bank


You're done.

ETA: Don't walk in talking about how you're a "cash buyer". They don't care...they want you to finance. Don't fall in love with a particular car. Don't waste your time "negotiating"; it's ok to walk out and ask them to call you if they can meet your price.

Speed
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 1:16:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 1:21:29 PM EST by UpInSmoke33]
I would say "b" but like most things i'm more than likely wrong.

ETA: point proven
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 1:22:52 PM EST
Shop... Truecar.com will give you what others paid for the same car. Invoice minus rebates is fair because they wil still get their dealer holdback and pack + their dealer fees. Dont use any special financing as you will loose the dealer cash. They will not get paid their flat from the bank unless it is financed for a certain peroid depending on the bank usually 3-6 months. If you need help buying a toyota ill be glad to lend a hand
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 1:40:05 PM EST
The dealer gets a rollback from the financing. Do NOT tell them that you are paying cash when you make the deal.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 1:41:23 PM EST
IM sent
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 1:42:51 PM EST
Why not? They will need to know so they can configure their deal. Most incentives are either dealer cash or the special rate. They would rather you finance so don't think that since you are paying cash it will get you a better deal.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 1:43:27 PM EST
If you are a nice guy you can finance with them for the 3 or 4 months it takes them to get their money from the financing.
If not tell them you will finance it and pay it off the first month.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 1:49:14 PM EST
If this is a new car you really can't talk them down that much ime. If it's used cash should help you lower the price.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 1:50:24 PM EST
+10 for Edmunds.com
Look to see if the dealer offers your employers discounts
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 1:53:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 1:53:32 PM EST by bowbender7]
Have things changed? When I was an F&I guy, we got charged back if a note was paid off early. If the bank didn't make any money why would they pay any out??
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 1:55:27 PM EST
Most important thing is to find a dealer that you are willing to do business with. Find a salesperson that will be willing to help you and answer all you questions and do some research about their service department as you will be visiting for routine maintainence. Remember the BEST deal isn't always the best price. Look at it as a package deal as you will be spending a lot of money with them so you should expect great customer service.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 1:58:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By bowbender7:
Have things changed? When I was an F&I guy, we got charged back if a note was paid off early. If the bank didn't make any money why would they pay any out??


You are correct. Their is a minimum period the loan has to be active. It can be paid off early with no penalties but not to early, usually 3-6 months depending on the bank, for the dealer to get paid. Note to OP, there is no need to finance unless the offer is better than taking the dealer cash
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:01:40 PM EST
I have always found buying vehicles entertaining. Perhaps its because I spent a few years (literally just 3) doing sales work. For 2012 I have only purchased 2 vehicles, a 2012 Harley Davidson Streetglide and a 2012 dodge Ram work truck. Last year it was just 1 vehicle my 20111 persoanl truck also a Ram pick up.
The concept is simple, shop around, let the salesman know by name the other dealerships you are shopping at and there price. Keep the dealership phone #'s and names of salesman along with prices and such written down. Play this game until the last man standing gives you the best deal.. Granted most folks are not suited to this and will pay the asking price but it has worked for me since 1991.. I typicaly get a new bike and truck / car every 2-3 years. ATV's and boats work about the same way but I keep them till the warranty runs out.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:02:45 PM EST
Ooh, ooh, ooh! Don't pick me!!!!!! I have the worst luck with vehicles in the world. I'm not even exaggerating, I would have better luck next time handing a complete stranger $6,000 outside a dealership and saying, "Go get me some used car". Even if they keep most of it and bring me some $800 Chrysler, it'll go longer without a complete power-train failure than anything I've ever bought. So congratulations on not having me with you when you buy one!!

(As far as financing though, I'd say hold back on saying you're gonna pay cash till the end - most of the time you get incentives because it's more lucrative for the dealership to offer financing. Drop that at the absolute last minute I think.)
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:08:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By psdavi01:
+10 for Edmunds.com
Look to see if the dealer offers your employers discounts


Wife used to work for someone who could discounts, not any more.

We both work for small businesses now.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:09:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By sabergeron:
Ooh, ooh, ooh! Don't pick me!!!!!! I have the worst luck with vehicles in the world. I'm not even exaggerating, I would have better luck next time handing a complete stranger $6,000 outside a dealership and saying, "Go get me some used car". Even if they keep most of it and bring me some $800 Chrysler, it'll go longer without a complete power-train failure than anything I've ever bought. So congratulations on not having me with you when you buy one!!

(As far as financing though, I'd say hold back on saying you're gonna pay cash till the end - most of the time you get incentives because it's more lucrative for the dealership to offer financing. Drop that at the absolute last minute I think.)


Well since you can find all dealer incentives online or at the last dealer they cant really hold the, from the consumer anymore. The internet saves people money everyday buying cars. Just ask them the incentives up front, they wont lie because you can just call their bluff. If you have the time, the best thing to do is shop. They can all price them the same way...
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:11:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By Srslidins14:
Most important thing is to find a dealer that you are willing to do business with. Find a salesperson that will be willing to help you and answer all you questions and do some research about their service department as you will be visiting for routine maintainence. Remember the BEST deal isn't always the best price. Look at it as a package deal as you will be spending a lot of money with them so you should expect great customer service.


Yeah. I won't be buying from the closest dealer anymore. I will only take their service dept "pre-paid" maintenance or warranty work.

We have an honest independent mechanic we've been using for years for routine/non-warranty work.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 3:29:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By Srslidins14:
Originally Posted By bowbender7:
Have things changed? When I was an F&I guy, we got charged back if a note was paid off early. If the bank didn't make any money why would they pay any out??


You are correct. Their is a minimum period the loan has to be active. It can be paid off early with no penalties but not to early, usually 3-6 months depending on the bank, for the dealer to get paid. Note to OP, there is no need to finance unless the offer is better than taking the dealer cash

No, no...that's my bad. I'm sure you guys are right that a bank has a minimum period before they will pay out backend points.
I was never an F&I guy, though I've used Dealer track and submitted lots of loans and even worked my mojo calling in manual approvals before

Our F&I head wanted us to get everyone to finance, and would even coach cash customers to pay off the loan when the first payment arrived, but now that I think back on it, I don't think he was trying to make the dealership money with that maneuver; I'm guessing he was getting personal kickbacks from a specific bank or 2 for volume

Anyway, sorry for posting my misconception here.


Speed
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 4:13:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By speedracer422:

Originally Posted By Srslidins14:
Originally Posted By bowbender7:
Have things changed? When I was an F&I guy, we got charged back if a note was paid off early. If the bank didn't make any money why would they pay any out??


You are correct. Their is a minimum period the loan has to be active. It can be paid off early with no penalties but not to early, usually 3-6 months depending on the bank, for the dealer to get paid. Note to OP, there is no need to finance unless the offer is better than taking the dealer cash

No, no...that's my bad. I'm sure you guys are right that a bank has a minimum period before they will pay out backend points.
I was never an F&I guy, though I've used Dealer track and submitted lots of loans and even worked my mojo calling in manual approvals before

Our F&I head wanted us to get everyone to finance, and would even coach cash customers to pay off the loan when the first payment arrived, but now that I think back on it, I don't think he was trying to make the dealership money with that maneuver; I'm guessing he was getting personal kickbacks from a specific bank or 2 for volume

Anyway, sorry for posting my misconception here.


Speed


Your earlier recommendation certainly *could* net the buyer a little better deal based on the dealers hope for backend profit.

Since this scenario would screw them out of that, I just had to mention that dealers are not making gross profits anywhere near what they use to. They have to remain profitable to stay open. (I know you know this). As much as some people loathe car dealers, if you are buying new you want them around to service your vehicle.

Link Posted: 11/22/2012 4:24:59 AM EST
E. Submit email leads through cars.com, dealer websites, etc., telling the dealers exactly what you want. Let them start a bidding war in your inbox while you sit back with a cold beer in your hand.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 4:28:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 4:34:36 AM EST by fxntime]
10 year old Ranger and only 86 k on the clock?

Forget the new vehicle, spend a grand [if you don't work on cars] on having it gone through and replacing things like all fluids, belts, hoses, plugs, wires, check steering components, and then drive it another 5 years. You'll be far ahead money wise and you will know exactly what you start with.

If the exterior is a bit trashed, maybe spend a bit making it look better also.

People will spend 15-40 grand on a new vehicle and never blink but spend a few grand on their own to spiff it up.............it's like forcing them to drink vodka mixed with gravy.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 4:29:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By Srslidins14:
Shop... Truecar.com will give you what others paid for the same car. Invoice minus rebates is fair because they wil still get their dealer holdback and pack + their dealer fees. Dont use any special financing as you will loose the dealer cash. They will not get paid their flat from the bank unless it is financed for a certain peroid depending on the bank usually 3-6 months. If you need help buying a toyota ill be glad to lend a hand

As part of their dealer agreement, dealers have to pay Truecar $300-400 for every sold deal that originates from them. Odds are that the dealer won't be feeling charitable, and that the customer will be paying for that from somewhere in the deal.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 4:31:49 AM EST


E) Drive your current vehicle until the wheels fall off.


Link Posted: 11/22/2012 4:36:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By Mech2007:


E) Drive your current vehicle until the wheels fall off.




winner winner
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 4:48:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 4:55:39 AM EST by SlowOne]

Originally Posted By fxntime:
10 year old Ranger and only 86 k on the clock?

Forget the new vehicle, spend a grand [if you don't work on cars] on having it gone through and replacing things like all fluids, belts, hoses, plugs, wires, check steering components, and then drive it another 5 years. You'll be far ahead money wise and you will know exactly what you start with.

If the exterior is a bit trashed, maybe spend a bit making it look better also.

People will spend 15-40 grand on a new vehicle and never blink but spend a few grand on their own to spiff it up.............it's like forcing them to drink vodka mixed with gravy.

This is the smart answer. But if you MUST satisfy the "new car itch" with an unnecessary expenditure with funds that could have better uses then try USAA's car buying service (if you are a member).

Eta : getting work done as above, body work & new paint job and interior upgrades and you're still ahead. More $ for Guns, ammo, night vision, suppressors, etc
288,000 miles on my Honda, going strong. If replaced for $35,000every 80-90k, well, do, do the math
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 4:55:41 AM EST
I bought a Ranger with 78k on it and drove it to 130k. I sold it to my brother and he drove it to 180k. It was still running perfectly when he sold it.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 5:01:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By SlowOne:

Originally Posted By fxntime:
10 year old Ranger and only 86 k on the clock?

Forget the new vehicle, spend a grand [if you don't work on cars] on having it gone through and replacing things like all fluids, belts, hoses, plugs, wires, check steering components, and then drive it another 5 years. You'll be far ahead money wise and you will know exactly what you start with.

If the exterior is a bit trashed, maybe spend a bit making it look better also.

People will spend 15-40 grand on a new vehicle and never blink but spend a few grand on their own to spiff it up.............it's like forcing them to drink vodka mixed with gravy.

This is the smart answer. But if you MUST satisfy the "new car itch" with an unnecessary expenditure with funds that could have better uses then try USAA's car buying service (if you are a member).

Eta : getting work done as above, body work & new paint job and interior upgrades and you're still ahead. More $ for Guns, ammo, night vision, suppressors, etc
288,000 miles on my Honda, going strong. If replaced for $35,000every 80-90k, well, do, do the math

USAA's car buying service is provided by TrueCar, as are AAA, Consumer Reports, and a few others...
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 5:15:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 5:19:42 AM EST by SlowOne]

Originally Posted By mr_camera_man:

Originally Posted By SlowOne:

Originally Posted By fxntime:
10 year old Ranger and only 86 k on the clock?

Forget the new vehicle, spend a grand [if you don't work on cars] on having it gone through and replacing things like all fluids, belts, hoses, plugs, wires, check steering components, and then drive it another 5 years. You'll be far ahead money wise and you will know exactly what you start with.

If the exterior is a bit trashed, maybe spend a bit making it look better also.

People will spend 15-40 grand on a new vehicle and never blink but spend a few grand on their own to spiff it up.............it's like forcing them to drink vodka mixed with gravy.

This is the smart answer. But if you MUST satisfy the "new car itch" with an unnecessary expenditure with funds that could have better uses then try USAA's car buying service (if you are a member).

Eta : getting work done as above, body work & new paint job and interior upgrades and you're still ahead. More $ for Guns, ammo, night vision, suppressors, etc
288,000 miles on my Honda, going strong. If replaced for $35,000every 80-90k, well, do the math

USAA's car buying service is provided by TrueCar, as are AAA, Consumer Reports, and a few others...

Now USAA has controlling interest in ZAG car buying service. Priced a Taco at 3K less than sticker. Might just take the plunge...
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 5:17:51 AM EST
That Ranger is like new. I replaced my 1999 Ranger last year it had 274K on it.

If it not broke don't fix it...
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 5:22:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By fxntime:
10 year old Ranger and only 86 k on the clock?

Forget the new vehicle, spend a grand [if you don't work on cars] on having it gone through and replacing things like all fluids, belts, hoses, plugs, wires, check steering components, and then drive it another 5 years. You'll be far ahead money wise and you will know exactly what you start with.

If the exterior is a bit trashed, maybe spend a bit making it look better also.

People will spend 15-40 grand on a new vehicle and never blink but spend a few grand on their own to spiff it up.............it's like forcing them to drink vodka mixed with gravy.


You read my mind....and I was going to post this.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:37:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By fxntime:
10 year old Ranger and only 86 k on the clock?

Forget the new vehicle, spend a grand [if you don't work on cars] on having it gone through and replacing things like all fluids, belts, hoses, plugs, wires, check steering components, and then drive it another 5 years. You'll be far ahead money wise and you will know exactly what you start with.

If the exterior is a bit trashed, maybe spend a bit making it look better also.

People will spend 15-40 grand on a new vehicle and never blink but spend a few grand on their own to spiff it up.............it's like forcing them to drink vodka mixed with gravy.


It would be easy to fix up. Mechanically it's in great shape. A few scratches and small dents because it's a truck and we use it as a truck.

But there are technologies and features that can't be added. The wife wants heated seats. I'd like something a little more fuel efficient. A new F150 with the Ecoboost engine would give us both of those things. Along with greater cargo capacity, a warranty for peace of mind, greater comfort and some other nice things.

It is the time to do it. We'll be able to afford it, the demand for Rangers is high, and this one should bring a good trade value. I see it as the prime time to make this move.

My car is only 6 years old and I plan on driving it at least another 4 years or until the wheels fall off, even though we could afford to replace it at the same time.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:55:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By mr_camera_man:

Originally Posted By Srslidins14:
Shop... Truecar.com will give you what others paid for the same car. Invoice minus rebates is fair because they wil still get their dealer holdback and pack + their dealer fees. Dont use any special financing as you will loose the dealer cash. They will not get paid their flat from the bank unless it is financed for a certain peroid depending on the bank usually 3-6 months. If you need help buying a toyota ill be glad to lend a hand

As part of their dealer agreement, dealers have to pay Truecar $300-400 for every sold deal that originates from them. Odds are that the dealer won't be feeling charitable, and that the customer will be paying for that from somewhere in the deal.


This may be teue if the dealer is a "True car registered dealer" was just giving the OP some backing for his price haggle. The dealer will make their money from dealer fees, port accessorie holdback, and there dealer pack. Also depending on how they do for their objective at the end of the month, they will get a kickback from the auto company. More for hitting 100%, 110%, 120% and so on. In the end, a "unit" or car sold is better then one not, even if it a loser on paper for the dealer. The thought of the customer coming back for service and repeat business is the mai. Objective foe the dealer. Most of the dealers money is made through there service department anyway.
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