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Posted: 7/26/2001 4:30:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/26/2001 4:29:45 AM EST by garandman]
Sorry, guys - THIS thread won't have any babe pics UNTIL someone else posts them. Like I've said before, I enjoy looking at scantily clad women, but refrain from doing so for religious reasons. But I wanna move out of that perspective, and look at this from another angle. I'm not trying to pass judgment here, just get some feedback from y'all with a couple questions - 1. How many of you are married, and still habitually look at babe pics? (nudies or otherwise) 2. If you are married, does your wife know about your babe pics, and does she approve?? be honest now. 3. Do you want your wife to sexually fantasize about other guys?? Or would it bother you if she did? Would you buy her a copy of PLAYGIRL for her enjoyment?? Be honest with me now. None of this male bravado crap.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 4:37:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/26/2001 4:35:53 AM EST by Renamed]
Originally Posted By garandman: Sorry, guys - THIS thread won't have any babe pics UNTIL someone else posts them.
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[img]http://www.baby-pictures.com/users/3/11.jpg[/img] There ya go! [:D]
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 4:38:09 AM EST
I am not married, but have been with the same woman for 18 years. I look at babe pics every chance that I get, and she knows it.She makes fun of me because I think that Demi Moore is so freakin hot. I don't concern myself with whether or not she fantasizes about other men. It suits me just fine to know that she has and will be there when I go to sleep, and if thinking about Brad Pitt or Tom Cruise makes her happy, then so be it. Chuck
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 4:41:53 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 4:44:53 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 4:45:55 AM EST
From a blatant offender. 1. Recently married, YES. 2. YES, and YES. 3. Don't want her to but "human nature", deal with it. My admiration of Traci Lords in her prime has ZERO bearing on my feelings for my wife or our relationship. I don't even know Traci. And even if I did it doesn't mean I stopped loving my wife. So the same holds true when she see's Brad Pitt(Oh, BTW your wife likes Brad too). It doesn't bother me that she likes Brad, she married me. Ir's just diversion. More importantly meaningless diversion. Try and remember that next time your wife watches a Russel Crowe movie. And she prefers Playboy. She once tried to make me jealous with a Playgirl subscription and I told her if she wanted to pay to look at oily fags that was her perrogative. Besides REAL porn for women is soap operas, they are different from us.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 4:50:11 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:02:19 AM EST
1) Not married but living in sin for past 6 years. 2) Pics ok but movies better. 3) Frankly, if she didn't she wouldn't be normal IMO. Life is too stressful to worry about what I consider to be a non-event.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:11:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By garandman: Like I've said before, I enjoy looking at scantily clad women, but refrain from doing so for religious reasons. 1. How many of you are married, and still habitually look at babe pics? (nudies or otherwise) 2. If you are married, does your wife know about your babe pics, and does she approve?? be honest now. 3. Do you want your wife to sexually fantasize about other guys?? Or would it bother you if she did? Would you buy her a copy of PLAYGIRL for her enjoyment??
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Do you do it for religion sake or because Christ is Lord of your life and he takes the desire away? Answer to questions; 1. Married and NO 2. There is nothing for her to know about 3. No and Yes Interesting topic here. Before Ted Bundy was executed for his terrible crimes he met with a man that just so happened to be the head of a christian based organization and told him that pornography was the start to his life of crime. When the pictures weren't enough, he went to videos, when videos weren't enough he started peeping, when peeping wasn't enough he started raping women, when raping wasn't good enough to supply the fix he started killing... Why would you want something in your life that may or may not cause you to do things like that? Is it worth it? What do those pictures leave you with? Wanting more. When the fix is over, don't you hate yourself for viewing them? I know I used to...
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:13:00 AM EST
Do we actually have two beekeepers on this board? What are the chances?
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:14:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: So the same holds true when she see's Brad Pitt(Oh, BTW your wife likes Brad too).
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Actually, she thinks "Brad" is an ugly, scrawny loser.
Ir's just diversion. More importantly meaningless diversion. Try and remember that next time your wife watches a Russel Crowe movie.
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You seem a bit edgy, Aug. Some psychologists would assign some interesting notions to that type of response. Actually, the ONLY other man my wife has ever mentioned as being "hunky" is David James Elliot from JAG. Heck, even I think he's a stud.
Besides REAL porn for women is soap operas, they are different from us.
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Now THERE'S an insightful comment. Pretty darn accurate too.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:21:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By Buddha: Do we actually have two beekeepers on this board?
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Possibly three. Depends on what you mean by "beekeppers".
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:22:13 AM EST
Looking at pictures of nekkid wimmin will not cause me to go out and initiate a rape and murder spree. I have more self control and presence of mind than to be a slave to the baser urges that may at times float through my head. While I personally do not believe that pornography is responsible for all that is blamed upon it, I do believe that it can act as a trigger for someone who is predisposed towards certain behavior. The big question is, what can be done about it? I don't know. Chuck
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:26:28 AM EST
Besides REAL porn for women is soap operas, they are different from us.
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Now THERE'S an insightful comment. Pretty darn accurate too.
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Way too true. In fact if all those women who get worked up over guys looking at porn would take a look at their "romance novels" and ask "if they were illustrated with pictures and my husband/boyfriend/father was reading it would they still be OK?" The immature men still think a woman's center of stimulation is between her legs, when in fact it is located between her ears. Smart guys have figured this out and don't need books or photos to get their women going.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:29:33 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:29:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By garandman: 1. How many of you are married, and still habitually look at babe pics? (nudies or otherwise)
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Together eight years, married six. Yes. I've been doing it ever since I noticed there was a difference, and I'm not going to stop now.
2. If you are married, does your wife know about your babe pics, and does she approve?? be honest now.
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Yes she knows. Approve? She doesn't mind. Sometimes she looks with me. Kinda spices things up.
3. Do you want your wife to sexually fantasize about other guys?? Or would it bother you if she did? Would you buy her a copy of PLAYGIRL for her enjoyment??
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I would be very surprised if she DIDN'T fantasize about other men (and I know for a fact that she does). She's a human being, too. Remember Carter's "lust in my heart" comment? Look, the rule is simple - window shop all you want, just don't bring anything home. Fantasy is fun. It's fun when you're a kid pretending to be an astronaut, and it's fun when you're an adult pretending to get what you know you'll never have. Fantasy is even more fun when you're sharing it with someone. Besides, while women are quite often really pretty to LOOK at, it took me a long time to find one I was willing to LIVE with for the rest of my life. You want a concrete separation between fantasy and reality, that's it. I've got to believe the same holds true for men, or Julia Roberts wouldn't be single (because to me, that is BABEAGE!)
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:30:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By garandman: 1. How many of you are married, and still habitually look at babe pics? (nudies or otherwise)
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Married, regularly see babes (including porn) as this is the USA and sex is used to sell everything.
2. If you are married, does your wife know about your babe pics, and does she approve?? be honest now.
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Yes, she knows. She bought me a subscription to Playboy a few years ago. I didn't ask for her to do that, and I've told her to let the sub lapse this time, as I'm getting tired of the liberal crap the rag esposes. Yes, I'm getting old!
3. Do you want your wife to sexually fantasize about other guys?? Or would it bother you if she did? Would you buy her a copy of PLAYGIRL for her enjoyment??
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Not particularly, but if it enhances her pleasure and she keeps it to herself, so what.
Be honest with me now. None of this male bravado crap.
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Honest!
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Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:30:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By bwilder10h: Do you do it for religion sake or because Christ is Lord of your life and he takes the desire away?
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Good point. I too often wimp out and use "religion" as a cop-out, when the real reason I don't do MANY things is because of the difference Jesus Christ has made in my life. But He hasn't taken the desire away. I know myself too well. I know if any major sin were to get me, it would be sexual in nature. I have NO desire to get drunk, or do drugs or anything like that. Its my thorn in the flesh. That is why I am SOOOOO hard headed on this issue. AND because of the fact that it is often a "gateway sin" kinda like a gateway drug, to other more heinous "anti social acts" as you pointed out. The family is the stability of society. Faithfulness in marriage is the glue of the family. Soft or hard porn rips at family cohesiveness. (this has been PROVEN statistically) Therefore, sexual gratification thru soft or hard porn (including babes in bikinis) is bad for society as a whole.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:32:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/26/2001 5:29:30 AM EST by Maynard]
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:33:16 AM EST
Originally Posted By 300ydClean: Looking at pictures of nekkid wimmin will not cause me to go out and initiate a rape and murder spree. I have more self control and presence of mind than to be a slave to the baser urges that may at times float through my head. While I personally do not believe that pornography is responsible for all that is blamed upon it, I do believe that it can act as a trigger for someone who is predisposed towards certain behavior. The big question is, what can be done about it? I don't know. Chuck
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I guess the first thing to do might be to not portray porn as harmless entertainment. Same with alcohol and guns. Most people will never have a problem with either, but we act responsibly around both and wisely restrict their ownership and use to those who have reached some standard of maturity. I think porn is a bit worse because it is so accepted. You cannot show up to work drunk, or go around waving a gun when when you ask for a raise. But porn that even twenty years ago would have been considered extremely hardcore is commonplace now, and there is no social stigma attached to it. So inevitably some will go way too far. Someone's wife or daughter will never come home and we will all be sad, then keep right on looking at this stuff. Decide for yourself if it's worth it.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:36:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By 300ydClean: Looking at pictures of nekkid wimmin will not cause me to go out and initiate a rape and murder spree. I have more self control and presence of mind than to be a slave to the baser urges that may at times float through my head. While I personally do not believe that pornography is responsible for all that is blamed upon it, I do believe that it can act as a trigger for someone who is predisposed towards certain behavior. The big question is, what can be done about it? I don't know. Chuck
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Same can be said for guns in the hands of those predisposed to violence. In either case, licensing, registration, waiting periods and banning aren't the answer, though that's what we're constantly told. What is? Long term, raising healthier kids. Short term? Making sure there are enough good people out able and willing to protect the innocent, and helping the victims we couldn't prevent. Maybe if we EXPECT people to act like adults, they eventually will. The more we make government into Mommy and Daddy, the more immature the public will be.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:38:41 AM EST
[b]Ted Bundy was a sociopath who enjoyed killing. Porn had little or nothing to do with his affinity for taking life. He was taking revenge for being spurned by a girl earlier in his life.[/b] Before you stand to hard on that statement, I would invite you to read Bundy's last word's for yourself. Just before his execution he had an interview with Dr. James Dobson where he was very clear about his crimes and his motivations. You can find the excerpts here: [url]http://www.family.org/docstudy/comhome/a0006667.html[/url]
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:42:22 AM EST
To me, porn IS harmless entertainment. I simply can not grasp people that have so little force of will that they will be motivated to go forth and commit some heinous act on another because they saw it on their TV screen. I see the point that was made as far as limiting access, but that has already been done by restricting acess to minors. What more, or how much further should these restrictions reach? I will take it for granted that we all agree that a total ban on pornography can not and will not ever be feasible in this country. I'm starting to confuse myself now,I yield the floor. Chuck
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:45:57 AM EST
Being my first post I should probably comment on something to do with rifles but this topic was to controversial to pass up. My comments are not an attempt at trolling, as seems to be the label thrown out frequently to new members. On to the topic, women and sex are used to sell everything in our culture. For better or worse that is how it is. Is it a sin to look at beautiful women clothed or not? I believe that depends on the individual and what he / she does with that input / stimulus. Sin is in the heart, and each of us must wrestle with it daily. Blaming an inanimate object such as a video or a magazine for someone going on a 3 state killing spree is simplistic and not logical. Reminds me of certain anti-gun arguments.........
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:51:55 AM EST
KBaker You said what I wish I could have gotten my fingers to type, well put and as realistic a solution as any that we will find here. Not too bad for a first post Black Adder, you contributed with pointed commentary. Welcome Chuck
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:58:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/26/2001 5:55:07 AM EST by M4A3]
I don't think it's accuarate to say "guns kill people". I know people kill people with guns. But, why do you think statistics prove that men that kill are almost always linked to porn or some type of pervertion? Quote from Dr. Dobson after evaluating Ted Bundy's interview. "Every few days we read about another boy or girl who has been sexually assaulted and brutally murdered. When a suspect is identified, authorities typically find boxes of pornography in his possession, much of it depicting violence against women and children. It has become a very familiar pattern. "
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:58:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/26/2001 5:59:37 AM EST by Maynard]
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:58:33 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:59:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By bwilder10h: Interesting topic here. Before Ted Bundy was executed for his terrible crimes he met with a man that just so happened to be the head of a christian based organization and told him that pornography was the start to his life of crime. When the pictures weren't enough, he went to videos, when videos weren't enough he started peeping, when peeping wasn't enough he started raping women, when raping wasn't good enough to supply the fix he started killing...
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This is the biggest load of steaming horsecrap I have ever seen. Ted was trying to shift blame to avoid responsibility and the death penalty. If everone who looked at porn became a killer there wouldn't be anyone here. This is one of the stupidest statements I have ever read,
Why would you want something in your life that may or may not cause you to do things like that? Is it worth it?
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In all my years of looking at porn, and I have seen more than you, it has NEVER caused me to even think of this crap. If boobies make you want to kill, YOU HAVE FRICKIN' PROBLEMS AND IT AIN'T BOOBIES!
What do those pictures leave you with? Wanting more. When the fix is over, don't you hate yourself for viewing them? I know I used to...
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It leaves me with a feeling of appreciation, what "others" must get from art. It ain't a fix because I'm not addicted. I enjoy it. And no I don't hate myself afterward. If YOU do that is a serious problem. Anyone who hates themselves for enjoying something has some repressed crap going on somewhere.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 6:06:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By 300ydClean: To me, porn IS harmless entertainment. I simply can not grasp people that have so little force of will that they will be motivated to go forth and commit some heinous act on another because they saw it on their TV screen. I see the point that was made as far as limiting access, but that has already been done by restricting acess to minors. What more, or how much further should these restrictions reach? I will take it for granted that we all agree that a total ban on pornography can not and will not ever be feasible in this country. I'm starting to confuse myself now,I yield the floor. Chuck
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Chuck, don't feel bad. I may seem like a confusing issue, but it really isn't. The first thing to do is for all of us to stop portraying the abnormal as normal. When a guy goes nuts with a gun or gets drunk and drives into a bus full of kids, we jump up right away and say,"but that's not like most of us!" and we are right. When "non-traditional same sex families" want to adopt little kids we say, "hey, that doesn't seem like a good idea". When homosexuals insist on joining the Boy Scouts so they can camp overnight with our kids, while setting a "good example as a healthy role model", we say, "Not with my kid!" But when we have an internet and television and print media filled with images that every civilized culture has held as taboo, or at least socially restricted, we say that it is only harmless entertainment. Sure, you may not want your kid to overnight with a gay Scoutmaster in his tent, but it's harmless entertainment for him to watch the free preview of "Three Girls and a Donkey?" How about "Co-ed Lesbian Teens?" At the very least, porn distorts our perception of normal sexuality. At the worst it has proven to be a trigger for the sociopath. The Old Testament Jewish prophet Isaiah said, "Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil..." We are seeing that woe visited on our nation because we call "good" things that would have sickened our grandparents and caused our parents to spank us. We ask for it, we get it.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 6:07:14 AM EST
Originally Posted By garandman: Actually, she thinks "Brad" is an ugly, scrawny loser.
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OK it was David James Elliot from JAG. My point remains.
You seem a bit edgy, Aug. Some psychologists would assign some interesting notions to that type of response.
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Swing and miss. And phsycologists are usually nuts themselves. They can usually blame anything on something. But that don't make it true.
Actually, the ONLY other man my wife has ever mentioned as being "hunky" is David James Elliot from JAG. Heck, even I think he's a stud.
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If I were "edgy" I'd refer you to the "psychologists would assign some interesting notions to that type of response" statement you made. [b]Besides REAL porn for women is soap operas, they are different from us. [/b]
Now THERE'S an insightful comment. Pretty darn accurate too.
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As is everything I say. Pssst. that last one was a joke, don't analyze it. Uh oh, was that "edgy"?
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 6:10:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By cerberus: Before you stand to hard on that statement, I would invite you to read Bundy's last word's for yourself. Just before his execution he had an interview with Dr. James Dobson where he was very clear about his crimes and his motivations. You can find the excerpts here: [url]http://www.family.org/docstudy/comhome/a0006667.html[/url]
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Ted Bundy was trying to get out of it and LIED. You are one of the few people willing to belive that LIE because it reinforces a belief system you have.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 6:18:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By garandman: 1. How many of you are married, and still habitually look at babe pics? (nudies or otherwise)
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I have been married for nine years and I look at babe pics...sometimes nude. I don't seek out pornographic pictures, but if one comes along, as in one of the posts here, I appreciate it.
2. If you are married, does your wife know about your babe pics, and does she approve?? be honest now.
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My wife has always said she doesn't care if I look at other women as long as I don't touch. Maybe she doesn't mean it, but she's never gotten angry at me about it so quien sabe? I don't care if she looks at pics of Mel Gibson.
3. Do you want your wife to sexually fantasize about other guys?? Or would it bother you if she did? Would you buy her a copy of PLAYGIRL for her enjoyment??
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It wouldn't bother me as long as it wasn't someone we KNEW. I mean if she wants to fantasize about Kevin Costner or something I couldn't care less. If she's fantasizing about a guy at work, it would be a little worrisome. As for the Playgirl thing...I may be wrong, but I don't really believe that sort of thing is really popular with women. From what I hear, Playgirl is more for gay men.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 6:20:17 AM EST
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: This is the biggest load of steaming horsecrap I have ever seen. Ted was trying to shift blame to avoid responsibility and the death penalty. If everone who looked at porn became a killer there wouldn't be anyone here. This is one of the stupidest statements I have ever read,
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Old Ted was about three hours away from his appointment with Florida Power and Light when he said this. I doubt he had much to gain but trying to dodge responsibility or misplace blame.
In all my years of looking at porn, and I have seen more than you, it has NEVER caused me to even think of this crap. If boobies make you want to kill, YOU HAVE FRICKIN' PROBLEMS AND IT AIN'T BOOBIES!
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Good for you. I'm glad you are not a psychopath, but some guys are. Encouraging this stuff at ever younger levels is like teaching 11 year olds to drink responsibly by taking them out to a bar.
It ain't a fix because I'm not addicted.
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Again, good for you. But as a professional LEO you must know that it is not the normal people who usually cause trouble. It is those who are addicted to sociopathic behaviors. Much porn is characterized by vilence or physical degradation or humiliation of women. I am not talking about the feminist line here, but actual porn portraying bondage, sadism, degradation, etc...
...And no I don't hate myself afterward. If YOU do that is a serious problem. Anyone who hates themselves for enjoying something has some repressed crap going on somewhere.
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That's exactly the point! Most don't, some do. Why continue to encourage it. Wanna show up with a couple of kegs at the local AA meeting? I didn't think so. Please don't misunderstand my tone here. I am a kinda thick headed German and tend to be very direct when I speak. I think you can take it in the spirit that it is given, without offense.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 6:29:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By Buddha: Do we actually have two beekeepers on this board? What are the chances?
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If you mean the two posts on this thread (now three), they were both by me, "thebeekeeper1." I am not aware of another beekeeper on this board. Damn few left anywhere, it seems. [:(]
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Check out the Frugal Squirrel board, a few there. One is "Brother Silicon" there are a few more.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 6:38:42 AM EST
To focus in teh discussion: I am very hesitant to involve the gov't in enforcing personal morality, and have serious reservations if that is even a Biblical approach (i.e. legislating against porn) My focus is on the personal side of the equation, where we individually make decisions about right and wrong. So, lets leave the govermental issues out of this. Thanx.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 6:50:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By garandman: To focus in teh discussion: I am very hesitant to involve the gov't in enforcing personal morality, and have serious reservations if that is even a Biblical approach (i.e. legislating against porn) My focus is on the personal side of the equation, where we individually make decisions about right and wrong. So, lets leave the govermental issues out of this. Thanx.
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Garandman, thanks for jumping in on this again to refocus us. I agree with you on not involving the government in our morality. 40 years of government playing social engineers has got us to where we are today. I hope nothing in my posts was taken as advocating a government/censorship type of approach to this problem. The problem is first and foremost a people problem, and a spiritual one. Not even spiritual in the sense you may take it, but that we as a people have no sense of spirit anymore. We are no longer outraged by anything. We just accept the extreme wierdness of our day as business as usual, and therein lies the problem. For several reasons I will not debate the Biblical approach on "legislating porn" though you sound like the kind of guy who can look that up and come to your own conclusions on who you are truly governed by. Until the individual changes his or her standard of what is good and acceptable we are lost as a people.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 6:54:12 AM EST
The majority of us can look at porn with no harmful side effects(Read that as bodies cut up in the frezer) Should we be made to bear the hardship of no Jenna Jameson,no Kendra Jade,no Asia Carrera, merely because some feeble minded fool cant draw the line between fantasy and reality. I FOR ONE THINK NOT. I call for registration and restrictions on feeble minded fools. WOOOOOPPPPPSSSSS, can't do that either can we. All we can do is act on what we know to be right and wrong. I will not even begin to try to make morality calls, but I do make judgement calls in the three ring goat rope that is Chucks life, and Chuck chooses to indulge himself in totally vulgar scenes played out on video all the while constantly reminding myself not to kidnap the neighbor girl. Thats as good as I can come up with guys. Chuck
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 6:56:57 AM EST
Interesting points garandman. As a student of judaism, a husband, and having grown up in the 60's and 70's, I like mini skirts and skimpy bikinis. I was in beach communities, so you get used to it. My wife wears a bikini, not at the moment, she is 9 months pregnant. A woman is a person, a human being , but also someone to look at. Men are visual, we like stimulation. Aslong as we keep it visual there is no real harm done. Unless we take it to excess and it affects our relationship with our other. The problem is that women are very self-concious. Yup they are always comparing them selves to other women. For a size 5 there is always a size 3 that is better to look at. Magazines like Playboy and Penthouse, do their damage in that our women get an idea that what we really like. There are no amount of words to convince them that the tiny waisted Barbie doll is not our desire. It is not that you look but you stare.....sometimes I do wondering what is in her head to go out like that. My wife still does not understand. We have very open line of communications between us, but women do not listen to body talk. So do I look, yes, but not to stare, do I cheat, no.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 7:05:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By garandman: Good point. I too often wimp out and use "religion" as a cop-out, when the real reason I don't do MANY things is because of the difference Jesus Christ has made in my life. But He hasn't taken the desire away. I know myself too well. I know if any major sin were to get me, it would be sexual in nature. I have NO desire to get drunk, or do drugs or anything like that. Its my thorn in the flesh. That is why I am SOOOOO hard headed on this issue. AND because of the fact that it is often a "gateway sin" kinda like a gateway drug, to other more heinous "anti social acts" as you pointed out. The family is the stability of society. Faithfulness in marriage is the glue of the family. Soft or hard porn rips at family cohesiveness. (this has been PROVEN statistically) Therefore, sexual gratification thru soft or hard porn (including babes in bikinis) is bad for society as a whole.
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Right on target garandman. Has anyone here considered the effect of porn on the women (girls) involved? Would you feel different if your daughter/sister/wife were the subject? The women in your life are degraded by porn. Would anyone here be comfortable if their daughter/sister/wife/mother were exposed to some fruitcake that constantly feeds his sick mind on hardcore porn? Well, unfortunately, they are exposed to it everyday. Are you comfortable with these things? Inquiring minds want to know. Is it going to be what's right and best for your women or what it takes to get you a little chubby?
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 8:23:58 AM EST
The family is the stability of society. Faithfulness in marriage is the glue of the family. Soft or hard porn rips at family cohesiveness. (this has been PROVEN statistically) Therefore, sexual gratification thru soft or hard porn (including babes in bikinis) is bad for society as a whole.
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This is always brought up by religious types and is as unfounded as anti gunner statistics. WHERE (outside of maybe the 700 club crack porn division) has this ever been proven. Cite evidence please.[+]:D]
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 8:24:22 AM EST
I'm gonna have to side with garandman on this issue. Porn is degrading to women, and if you want to look at it it's your personal business, but just take some time to think of the effect it has on people and how it destroys marriages.(Apparently no one on this board has this problem).
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 8:27:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By ipschoser1: Right on target garandman. Has anyone here considered the effect of porn on the women (girls) involved? Would you feel different if your daughter/sister/wife were the subject? The women in your life are degraded by porn. Would anyone here be comfortable if their daughter/sister/wife/mother were exposed to some fruitcake that constantly feeds his sick mind on hardcore porn? Well, unfortunately, they are exposed to it everyday. Are you comfortable with these things? Inquiring minds want to know. Is it going to be what's right and best for your women or what it takes to get you a little chubby?
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What are you calling porn? Would I feel bad if my wife/sister/daughter were allowing herself to be filmed/photographed in sexual acts? Yes. Would I feel bad about her being photographed in a bikini or a nightie? No. Naked? Maybe, maybe not...depends if the pictures were in good taste and why she agreed to have them taken. While I enjoy looking at beautiful naked women, I don't get much enjoyment out of sexually explicit photos...my imagination is better at it than the photographers. Frankly, though, I think too many people---holy rollers and feminists mostly---make too big a deal about porn. People have been looking at porn since time imemorial and it's intellectually dishonest to think that it's some new problem that has only been around the last 30 years.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 9:03:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/26/2001 9:03:54 AM EST by cerberus]
Originally Posted By Bohica:
The family is the stability of society. Faithfulness in marriage is the glue of the family. Soft or hard porn rips at family cohesiveness. (this has been PROVEN statistically) Therefore, sexual gratification thru soft or hard porn (including babes in bikinis) is bad for society as a whole.
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[b]This is always brought up by religious types and is as unfounded as anti gunner statistics. WHERE (outside of maybe the 700 club crack porn division) has this ever been proven. Cite evidence please.[+]:D][/b]
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The statment he made has very little to do with religion by itself. Secular anthropologists have recognized for hundreds of years that stable, well developed, high acheiving societies are usually those that value a well defined "traditional"family structure. I recently saw a documentary about a group of South American Indians who live in a communal arrangement. There is no marriage as we would know it, the women have multiple sex partners and paternity of the children is diffucult to dtermine. Therefore all the children are raised by the community (it takes a village... remember?") with predictable results. There is no sense of commitment to do anything beyond the basic needs of the children and community, and they are thouroughly backward. Almost Stone Age in how they live. Not from lack of exposure to the modern world. They were wearing sneakers and nylon jogging shorts, etc.. but were completely undeveloped as a society. This lack of cultural and societal development is the rule in this type of community arrangement. To the opposite extreme, though their religious and cultural systems were totally different from each other, the Greeks, Romans, Jews and Egyptians all valued the sanctity of the family to such an extent that government had little say in how a man chose to run his household, treat his wife or discipline his children. Family honor, education and legacy were highly valued and a family's "good name" was something to be proud of. In these cultures a well adjusted family life and well behaved children were the marks of an honorable man and woman. For better evidence than I can present here, just look in any good college library or on the Web. The truth is out there.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 9:03:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By RikWriter: People have been looking at porn since time imemorial and it's intellectually dishonest to think that it's some new problem that has only been around the last 30 years.
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You miss the point. YES sexuality has been around forever. But only recently has it become so socially accepted and status quo, in the porn format. Only recently has it been in print form. And only VERY recently has it been availble free, to ANYONE, thru the interent. In reality, it is a VERY recent phenomenon. As such, we CANNOT say that it won't have a VERY negative effect on future generations. Its the old slippery slope. Today porn is OK, when only a few years ago is was verbotten. Today date rape is unacceptable. perhaps tomorrows "more enlightened generation" (I believe that's teh phrase widely used to excuse all types of behavior) will find date rape acceptable, since she did go out with the guy, and showed some sexual interest. How was the guy supoposed to know she didn't want sex?? I've ALREADY heard those types of excuses offered. Where do we draw the line?? CLEARLY, teh Biblical line is unacceptable in this forum. Maybe someone else's line with your wife / daughter will be far more radical than your own. Having removed the absolute standard of the Bible, who's to say you are right and he is wrong - ESPECIALLY in the shifting sands of a society that can go from an unspoken ban of porn to wide acceptance of porn in ONLY 30 years?? (I know, I know - we're more "enlightened" now. Kinda arrogant IMO.) No flames intended. Try to look past the harsh rhetoric, and see the substance.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 9:07:43 AM EST
Originally Posted By RikWriter: Would I feel bad about her being photographed in a bikini or a nightie? No. Naked? Maybe, maybe not...depends if the pictures were in good taste and why she agreed to have them taken.
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Come on Rik, you're a smart guy. Would you really be OK with a bunch of perverts looking at these type photos of your lady? We're not talking private photos here. What's right is absolute cause' God ain't wrong!
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 9:09:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By ipschoser1:
Originally Posted By RikWriter: Would I feel bad about her being photographed in a bikini or a nightie? No. Naked? Maybe, maybe not...depends if the pictures were in good taste and why she agreed to have them taken.
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Send me some pics then...
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 9:21:37 AM EST
Garandman, We are created in Gods image. I love to look at beautiful women in any state of dress or undress. I fantasize about women other than my wife. She does the same, no problem. I know she loves me and I love her. If another man looks at her in a sexual way, again no problem,looky no touchy. In spite of this God loves us both as much as he loves you.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 9:22:22 AM EST
On the one hand, millions throughout history have been killed over religion. Christians, Muslims, Jews, Animists, etc. have all happily butchered one another for centuries over whose god is cooler. These fights go on today in some places and in many cases have transformed themselves into fights over other things, but the religious divide is there. Muslim terrorists, Protestant paramilitaries, Serbian nationalists...religion is behind it all. I haven't seen a current tally on casualties in the porn wars, so I can't speak authoritatively on the subject. However, I'm willing to bet that if Ted Bundy didn't have his Playboy magazines, he'd have gotten off on the underwear section of the J.C. Penney catalog, if that's what it took. Ted Bundy was insane, a sociopath/psychopath. Do you think porn did this to him? I doubt it. I think what happened is that his mental condition dampened areas of his brain, such as that which feels compassion for the suffering of others, and hyperinflated other areas of his brain, such as that which controls the sex drive, resulting in an increased interest in porn. Also, Ted Bundy told any story he could think of, right up until they threw the switch on him, to extend his pathetic life another second. He confessed to hundreds of unsolved murders all over the country, just because it meant that Minnesota State Troopers would be flying down to Florida to talk to him, and Florida couln't execute him until his story was proved or disproved. Believing anything a sociopath says is a shaky way to buttress your argument. YMMV. FMCDH Semper Fidelis Jarhead out. -------------------- "When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, 'This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives." --R. A. Heinlein
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 9:37:03 AM EST
All well and good but the bitrthplace of the T*r*h and hence the Bible was the middle east. In this area here were many pagan religions. Many of them were fertility cults. They involved group sex, same sex, and animal sex. Understand that the Hebrews had the guidance of G*d, yet were very hard headed people. There are laws against all of these acts in the scripture. Why? to keep the Hebrews from going that way and worshiping other gods. There is a prohibition against sex with animals. Why have that unless somebody was doing it? G*d gave us and then to the Christans and Muslims, a means of a moral life. Only there are those elements that take the issue of free choice to an extreme. Wheter it is being scantily clad to imposing draconian morals on others. I don't see sexy in the way you dress, it is in the way you act and think. Nowadays the majority follow the the values and morals of G*d. There are very few worshippers of Asarte or Baal.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 9:42:49 AM EST
I'm not talking about "group sex, same sex or animal sex." I'm talking about seeing a picture of a naked woman and saying, "Whoa!" instead of feeling guilt and self-loathing. FMCDH Semper Fidelis Jarhead out. ----------------- “If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what will be orthodox, in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith [in it].” --Justice Robert Jackson, writing for the majority of the US Supreme Court in Virginia Board of Education vs Barnette
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