I hate to tell you this, but the Vampire Culture started here in the United States and then moved to England.

Ask anybody in Law Enforcement Gang Education, the Goth/Vampire movements are scary as hell.

What the article failed to point out is that there have been several murders recently in Europe, where the perps, drained and drank the blood of there victims.

Many people involved in the vampire culture practice cutting as part of there sex lives, this involves making cuts on their partner and licking off the blood. This is a lot more wide spread than you would think.

Most are devotee's of the author Ann Rice.

Most Vampires Culture people started out in the Goth Movement.

Many get started in the Vampire Culture playing a role playing game, that has a live action (Acting out component.) called White Wolf.

Most will tell you that their religion would either be Vampirism, Satanism, Thelma (A belief System centered around the writings of Alister Crowley), Wicca, or some form of Pagan belief.

Most have deep seated problems dealing with reality, and are thus capable of crimes, at the gravest extreme end of the spectrum.

So, if I run into them, should I use silver bullets, or will standard copper coated lead work just as well?

I guess I need to start a stockpile of stakes.  Really, though, sort of scary that this actually exists.

Wait a minute, I thought Vampires were an eastern Europe thing and London was a Werewolf town? Am I missing something?

Natez....I think you are correct....

According To Warren Zevon anyway.

You forgot to mention that they eat babies and tear the tags off mattresses.

The game is called "Vampire", and the company that produces it is White Wolf Publishing.

That last statement was particularly disappointing... "Most have deep seated problems dealing with reality, and are thus capable of crimes, at the gravest extreme end of the spectrum"... well, which is it? Is it "most" or "gravest extreme end of the spectrum". The vast majority are guilty of one vile crime:

They look silly.

That's a pretty broad brush to tar someone with, Mr. AndLoathing. They are a subculture, nothing more. You'll get a few bad eggs in any bunch, this just happens to be a bunch who like looking spooky.

I can imagine people saying the same thing about those "damned gun owners".

Gee Spearweasle, What's the matter, did my description of the Vampire lifestyle strike a little to close to home.

Oh of course, I forgot, in the intrests of diversity we have to accept any sexual practice, Even if it's killing an nice little old lady in England, Draining her blood and drinking it.

In the intrest of liberal PCism in its worst form, we have to accept people who have a moral value system so screwed up, that blood drinking is acceptable, no wait, the perscribed way of practicing religion.

A religion that embraces Evil and celibrates in the great majority of it's litrature, Killing the inocent, in order to drink their blood.

Spearweasle you delude yourself if you think that the Vampire Culture is'nt doing all these things and a whole lot worse. Do you wany me to start digging up a long long list of Vampire Culture related murders, right here in the U.S. and then we will go thru them one at a time so you can try to defend the actions of this sick part of our culture.

Oh by the way Spearweasle, I'm glad you knew the name of the roleplaying game, Did you used to play in those live action Vamire Games? Is that why you are defending the Vampire Culture.

Fear and loathing...divide and conquer.....do you want us to start pulling records on gun-owners that went nuts.....How about Texas's Favorite.....AKA David Koresh.....the point is that in every slice there are bad seeds....Or do you just want to say that everyone that wears black and has a passing involvement with Anne Rice--bad author- are demonic? Yep buddy that there is the DU way of life...ALL of THOSE people are bad.

Now for the record.....anyone that mixes sex and pain is a little strange...anyone that mixes sex and blood and death is a criminal.

Mr. AndLoathing, if you are going to grossly overgeneralize, at least try to get my name right.[stick]

It's spelled "spearweasel"... not "spearweasle".

I'm guessing that you are pretty bored if the Vampire/Goth Subculture is the best scary boogeyman you can find. Hound already said what I would have, so I'll drop it. You seem pretty comfortable with what you know, so I won't confuse you with facts.

For the record, I have been doing tabletop[:E] and LARP[>]:)] gaming for decades now, and have yet to drink blood[dracula], worship Satan[devil], or even dress mostly in black [8] and listen to The Cure. I defend them as I do any other group that's being unfairly tarred with the misdeeds of a few. I'm pretty consistent about that, or I try to be.

Hound, I can't believe you just tryed to equate Gun culture with Vampire Culture.

But since you did, I'll tell you that the lamest idea in the gun culture, is the ultra-libratarian idea, that we must accept all cultures, no matter how vile, because if we don't we are all going to be burned up in a Waco style massacre and it all started, of course, when we did not support the right of teenagers to drink eack others blood while having sex and listening to Goth music.

A mid level Cleric would smoke those vampires. Turn undead followed by a flamestrike or two and boom a pile of ashes.

Paper

edited to say cast negative plane protection on anyone in your party within melee range.

Ok fear and loathing, what is so vile about dressing up in black and reading vampire books?
Is that your definition of "vampire culture"?
Or do you just have a problem with people that perform criminal acts? Exactly! What I am trying to get through to you is that all so-called cultures have bad seeds.....painting everyone bad is just plain wrong.....and as for your seemimg anglo-centric hatred of everything else...lighten up francis.....I am not especting you to openly welcome militant gays or red-neck KKKers or muslim terrorists......just sometimes there aint a problem and people try to make one.......ok?

DVDTracker I hope you are playing third edition because otherwise that is just not professional.


edited for gramar

I can see it now....[thinking]
===========================================

[pissed] "Everybody calls me FearandLoathing. Any of you guys call me Francis, and I'll kill you. "

[rolleyes] "Ooooooh. "

[pissed] "You just made the list, buddy. Also, I don't like no one drinking my blood. So just keep your fangs off. If I catch any of you guys biting my neck, I'll kill you. And I don't like nobody reading Anne Rice. Any of you homos read Anne Rice, and I'll kill you."

=============================================
-all apologies to "Stripes"

Dammit... did anyone see my 20-sided die? It rolled under the table...

I am a Pagan and I do have a good sense of reality.  There are a few of us that don't have a good sense of reality in the pagan community however there are also a few Christians/Buhdist/and quite a few Islamist that are not in touch with reality either.  However I don't think it is to cool being associated with anyone who loves pain or sexually attacted to blood.  Cutters has a specific form of depression and they need help.  

As for the original topic....some people are just fvcking stupid and need to be locked away.

Archer!!! Exactamundo.......You are all freaks and mutants and cannibals and you are in the wrong town........Just get the bad ones....

I hate to tell you this, but the Black Rifle Culture started here in the United States and then moved to England.

Ask anybody in Law Enforcement Gang Education, the Black Rifle/AK movements are scary as hell.

What the article failed to point out is that there have been several murders recently in Europe, where the perps, trained by shooting at human shaped targets.

Many people involved in the Black Rifle practice using Hopes #9 as part of there sex lives.  This is a lot more wide spread than you would think.

Most are devotee's of the author Tom Clancy.

Most Black Rifle people started out in the NRA.

Many get started in the Black Rifle Culture playing a role playing game, that has a live action (Acting out component.) called Paintball.

Most will tell you that their religion would either be Coltism, Bushmasterism, Hesse (A belief System centered around poorly made weapons), Wicca, or some form of Pagan belief.

Most have deep seated problems dealing with reality, and are thus capable of crimes, at the gravest extreme end of the spectrum.

Now you've done it.  The PETA people are gonna be all over you for forcing your poor cat to play D&D. [:D]

You have told them our secrets.  You are out of the order for good.  Turn in you evil black rifle and your ar15.com underware at the door.

Judging from his picture I say beer and some sort of redmeat dish.  

It never fails to amaze me how pop culture has screwed up the moral values of some of our younger board members.

The only thing many of our younger AR15.com'ers have in common with this board, is that they maybe own an AR15, but really they still live in a feel good, morally depraved world, that defines freedom as a society that would allow them to practice the most vile sick forms of human sacrifice or blood letting, BECAUSE IT FEELS GOOD TO THEM.

A handful of them here would justify anything, no matter how destructive to our society as a whole.

Its the Philosophy of spoiled self centered little children, Music that talks about cop killing and random gang style murder....Oh yeah, its ok, with them,... Teenage girls dropping dead at RAVES because they bought into your X Craze,... Oh yeah, its alright with them, Rock and Movie Stars on heroin... Oh yeah, its ok with the Freedom at all costs bunch, who are defending the blood drinking Sh*t Heads.

The point of this has nothing to do with the Game D&D, nor is it an attack on Paganism in general. What it is about is that all belief systems are NOT CREATED EQUAL AND MANY SO CALLED RELIGIONS ARE MUCH MORE DANGEROUS TO THE HUMAN RACE AND CIVILIZATION AS WE KNOW IT, THAN OTHERS.

You know all religions start out small, lets try for a moment to imagine a world where Vampirism caught on, or a society based on the twisted ideas of Alister Crowley. A society where the philosophy of self centered "Do as thou wilt" and Evil ruled Supreme. Such a society would make Nazi Germany or Taliban Afghanistan look like a Boy Scout Camp and the rest of the world would be quite justified in wiping a society based on such belief systems, off the face of the planet.

Humankind cannot allow religions based on total evil and murder to flourish.

Guys, except for a few nutcases, all those people do is dress funny, use makeup, look haunted and listen to depressing music. A few even have models of cardboard coffins on their desks. [i] O tempora o mores[/i]. And it's  nothing new either.

I fondly remember Miss Sarah Lo***ood, denizen of London, back then a rather prominent figure in that scene, for whom I drove from Munich to Berlin to pick her up from the airport. Twice. She didn't mention it was the 8[red]PM[/red] flight. What a babe though! We frolicked over a few German graveyards for a week, visited some vaults, and had, in general, a grand time spooking the local populace with our long black trenchcoats (a decade before Columbine).
If the gardener didn't pick it up yet, there's still a few items of personal apparel laying behind a tombstone or two :)

Oh, and Anne Rice? Dumb b|tch. Uninspired writer of serial, and I'd like to add, rather faggotty, vampire novels. No match for say, Bram Stoker, who made London the set of his "Dracula" (only the initial scenes are set in Romania). London in general is home to a gothic scene with a long tradition. Think Byron, Wollstonecraft-Shelley, and others.

Damn I wish I had a group around here...  I miss gaming regularly.

Oh yeah, and fearandloathing needs to be whipped with a clue-by-four.

the_reject

Oh did fearandloathing step in a pile of deep-do.....humanity cannot allow religions....let us use a little comparison here....so called vampirism religion...maybe 100 deaths....Catholicism....At least 10,000...protestants...possibly a couple of thousand....should I go on? What is your problem? some whack-job kills somebody and you want to bring back witch hunts.....get a life francis.

Man, you guys go all out, we had a chalkboard and letters when I was in High school.

Now here with Kar98, we have a prime example of what I'm talking about.

So you have some sort of major brain malfunction, that you get off,having sex in a Grave yard Kar98?

Are you not the guy who posts his obsession with all things German (Including Nazism)(well ok so you thinly deny Nazism, but it makes us all wonder.) Kar98.

I mean how many screws do you have loose Kar98, were you like some sort of psychologically troubled youth, who grabbed hold of any cultural idea that would allow you to be part of a group. Were you some sort of weak minded joiner, that felt you could be part of a scene by buying a black trench coat and looking spooky and dangerous?

I mean h*ll its easy to join the Trench Coat Mafia, They'll take anybody and the Goth and Vampire Culture are pretty much the same way.

You know now that you mention it, the Skin Heads take just about anybody they can recruit to, and that would explain a lot of things about you Kar98.

Dude, you clearly cannot read, or comprehend what you've read.

"Obsession with all things German"? You nitwit! I was born in Germany, and excuse the shit out of me, numbskull. There are people out there who manage to be fully immersed in more than one culture.

and

" mean hell its easy to jion the Trench Coat Mafia"

Didn't I mention this was about ten years _before_ Columbine? I knew I did. We didn't join, we created subculture. And instead of me being a follower, people actually follow me.

Fixed it for you.

the_reject

And just what kind of culture are you under the illusion you created Kar98.

Oh man, I can't wait to hear Kar98 outline his brave new Goth culture world for us.

That would require venturing out into public though.

...and I might be accosted by the smell of dirty unwashed gamer!

OH NOS!

the_reject

I'm waiting for Kar98 to outline for us, the ultra-permissive trainwreck, that must have been his childhood, that would lead him to such a place in life, where he feels he has great sex while thinking about the dead people buried just a few feet below him.

Every culture has its problems.  Pop culture is not really a culture in and of itself.  Having a moral base does not really have to do with the culture though.  Sure moraltiy can be influenced greatly, but the culture does not make an individual just influences.  Mark Twain realized this and wrote about it.



I am 23 and like to enojy myself.  I know right from wrong though and so do many young people.  Anyone should be able to enjoy themselves as long as it does not hurt anybody else.  Themselves included.  



You remind me of the old guy sitting on the portch yelling at the whipper snappers.  Rock and Roll back in the day was see the same way you are talking about modern pop culture.  However America and the world did not all become greasers/roadies/bikers.  And if they did they where able to controll themselves when they had to.  Most are even productive in society and have families of their own.  



I didn't think you where attacking me per say but I don't like being told that if you don't believe in any specific religon your values and morals are all screwed up and you may be prone to thinking irationally.



I dont think anyone really thinks of Vampirism (or whatever you want to call it) will become a religon.  Some people are freaks.  There will alsways be freaks as long as there are people.  It does not mean Sodom and Grimora are around the corner.

The only people who seem to have problems with free will are the ones that can't controll themselves.  



Who decides which ones are evil?  You?


edited for having to many its

Umm, folks..

I wonder about 'FearAndLoathing37' and his posts. Methinks they're a prank and/or literary allusion and/or he's "pulling our chain" - esp since it's someone from Oklahoma talking about Satanic cults. (Explanation follows - no slam on Okla, my grandad was an Okie.)

[Most 'goths' I have seen - and this is in SF! - just have poor taste in dress and hair style/ color. They're harmless, and are less of a semireligious orientation then a social group of 'rejectionists' - they don't wanna be hippies, punks, metalheads, etc. so they found something else - and black is cheap. They're about as harmless as Marilyn Manson or Ozzy Osbourne, though perhaps I am mixing classifications here.]

Gonzo author/journalist Hunter S. Thompson wrote 'Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas' (made into a movie a few years ago w/Johnny Depp that didn't do the story service).  Thompson was the basis for the movie (starring actor Bill Murray), "Where the Buffalo Roam", and the creator of my favorite signature line, "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."

Thompson lead (and prob still leads) a boozy, drug-infused life, and has been responsible for lotsa merry pranks, tricks, ritual car abuse, etc. in between bouts of some good writing. As I recollect (prob a few errors here) Thompson and his sidekick attorney Oscar are all fueled up on booze & chemicals and check into a Dist. Attorney's convention in Vegas.  They're just sober enough (in a coffee shop, for once) to recount, to a DA from Muskogee, OK, all sorts of savage acts of devil-worshipping groupies, while posing as investigators. Supposedly these people are hopped up on adrenochrome (extracted from kidneys) and cut off victim's heads, etc.
Somehow, in the story, the DA believes these guys and is horrified, etc., etc.

So it seems this thread's init response by FearAndLoathing37 could well be 'troll bait'.

As an aside, I really do wonder about 'gang units' in middle America (as opposed to metro areas like Oakland, LA, NY, etc.) and how much of their 'intelligence' is real. When I read stuff like what F&L37 posted I suspect there well could be a bit of a Cargo Cult setup of local cops - tell 'em fanciful stories for extra cigarettes or whatever.

Here in Kalif, the init. investigation of the Jeffery Stayner murders of the mom & 2 girls in a Yosemite motel (tell THEM about gun control!!) was hindered when the FBI rounded up a bunch of meth heads in the hills. These guys told, IIRC, a week or two (maybe more) of  very well-knit, structurally sound stories indicating knowledge of the murders "just because they were bored".  The FBI regarded them at the time as *the* prime investigative lead (w/possible perp amongst them). Amazing what some drugheads with time on their hands can do!

Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

I can see most of those vampire geeks dying of AIDS within the next 10 years. I mean you've got to be really Fucked up to drink other peoples blood in this day and age(or any other day and age, for that matter) Whats the world coming to [dracula]

bwiese

He could be trolling and that is fine, but I have met a few people that actually think like that so I always get alittle aprehensive around that stuff.

[dracula]We can't stop here this is bat country.[dracula]

It is Moral Relativism taught in our schools that clouds young peoples judgement.

There is no good or evil to people taught under this doctrine. No one has the right, to determine what is Good or what is Evil.

So let me ask you a moral question Archer. Your Mother is killed by a nut job that believes that he can drink her blood and thus attain immortality. Do you have the right to feel that the murder of your mother was an evil act? or do you say "Well I'm not really qualified to judge what is good or what is Evil?

What do you think is worse for our country?

this...
[img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/Max%5FPower%2Fgoths%2Ejpg[/img]


or this...
[img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/Max%5FPower%2Fclinton%2EJPG[/img]


this...
[img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/Max%5FPower%2FGoths2%2Ejpg[/img]


or this...
[img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/Max%5FPower%2Fhillary%2Ejpg[/img]
this one makes me sick [puke]


[edited to add... super chicken, that was fucking hillarious.]

I doubt this is as common as illustrated.  I was a metalhead in my youth (though dad wouldn't allow me to look like one), and my southern baptist schoolmates frequently called me a satanist.  If you asked them, the world was becoming overrun with satanists.

People tend to engage in storytelling.  What sounds better?  A couple of Goths were walking down the road, or a couple of Goths, probably going to a bloodletting, were walking down the road.  

The reality is that there is normally way more "sex and drugs" going on at "approved of" parties with cheerleaders, honor students, and football heros.  In college, I partied with a couple of "dark" types every now and then, and they are fairly BOOOOOORRRRRINNNNGGG!

Most so called Goths are in a stage, and will look back upon it and say "What was I thinking?!"