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Posted: 8/16/2005 11:35:49 AM EDT
It seems the person that the police shot 8 times in the head actually did nothing at all wrong.

Link

He was not carrying any parcels/bags, he was not wearing bulky clothing, he did not vault over ticket barriers. The only thing he did was to run across the platform when he saw a train there about to depart.

So, all those who claimed it was his own fault -- want to retract your claims???

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:39:17 AM EDT
Well, except whatever got him shot. Not to be less than blunt.

G
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:40:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PhilipPeake:
So, all those who claimed it was his own fault -- want to retract your claims???



Of course not. Don't be silly.

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:40:35 AM EDT
I'm pretty sure I wasn't there and I bet no one who writes any of these articles was either. Not defending the cops but I am not in a position to judge.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:42:17 AM EDT
He was in the wrong place at the wrong time. It could happen to any of us.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:42:33 AM EDT
Nope.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:42:59 AM EDT
Cracked eggs, omlette. That kindof shit.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:46:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mauser101:
Somebody else's Cracked eggs, omlette. That kindof shit.



There. That puts it into perspective.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:47:28 AM EDT
If they had been racially profiling they would have realized that he's too pale to be an Arab and would have waited till the right guy came out.

*Flameshield On*
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:48:18 AM EDT
it's bush's fault..him and those jews
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:49:15 AM EDT
Regardless, the whole event was a good thing. People understand the seriousness of their behavior and will avoid such events happening to them. Meanwhile, ACTUAL bombers should stick out like sore thumbs...


YMMV


- BG
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:49:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PhilipPeake:
It seems the person that the police shot 8 times in the head actually did nothing at all wrong.

Link

He was not carrying any parcels/bags, he was not wearing bulky clothing, he did not vault over ticket barriers. The only thing he did was to run across the platform when he saw a train there about to depart.

So, all those who claimed it was his own fault -- want to retract your claims???

www.itv.com/news/story1671546.160x120.jpg





We went on the information we had. Every news organization on the planet was saying he was wearing a thick jacket and had run from police after leaving a suspected terrorist's house. Anything that we discussed here was based on what we were told by numerous credible news organizations. Why should we recant our claims?

One point: I must question the credibility of ITV. Who the heck are they? Is that some Al Jizzera website? Until I see this report on mainstream news, I really must wonder how credible it is.

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:50:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:
Regardless, the whole event was a good thing. People understand the seriousness of their behavior and will avoid such events happening to them. Meanwhile, ACTUAL bombers should stick out like sore thumbs...


YMMV


- BG



Yup.

Sucks that he got killed however.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:53:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:

Originally Posted By PhilipPeake:
It seems the person that the police shot 8 times in the head actually did nothing at all wrong.

Link

He was not carrying any parcels/bags, he was not wearing bulky clothing, he did not vault over ticket barriers. The only thing he did was to run across the platform when he saw a train there about to depart.

So, all those who claimed it was his own fault -- want to retract your claims???

www.itv.com/news/story1671546.160x120.jpg





We went on the information we had. Every news organization on the planet was saying he was wearing a thick jacket and had run from police after leaving a suspected terrorist's house. Anything that we discussed here was based on what we were told by numerous credible news organizations. Why should we recant our claims?

One point: I must question the credibility of ITV. Who the heck are they? Is that some Al Jizzera website? Until I see this report on mainstream news, I really must wonder how credible it is.




Couldnt the same be said for Waco? Government thought they where terrorist and went on the information they had.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:56:32 AM EDT
One more time...If you don't know anything about Waco...don't bring it up.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:57:49 AM EDT
Whoops!

This would just make me look for an actual terrorist to shoot even more.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:58:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By p331083:

Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:

Originally Posted By PhilipPeake:
It seems the person that the police shot 8 times in the head actually did nothing at all wrong.

Link

He was not carrying any parcels/bags, he was not wearing bulky clothing, he did not vault over ticket barriers. The only thing he did was to run across the platform when he saw a train there about to depart.

So, all those who claimed it was his own fault -- want to retract your claims???

www.itv.com/news/story1671546.160x120.jpg





We went on the information we had. Every news organization on the planet was saying he was wearing a thick jacket and had run from police after leaving a suspected terrorist's house. Anything that we discussed here was based on what we were told by numerous credible news organizations. Why should we recant our claims?

One point: I must question the credibility of ITV. Who the heck are they? Is that some Al Jizzera website? Until I see this report on mainstream news, I really must wonder how credible it is.




Couldnt the same be said for Waco? Government thought they where terrorist and went on the information they had.



No, in THAT case the .gov lied\fabricated\and burned to cover their ass.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:04:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By p331083:

Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:

Originally Posted By PhilipPeake:
It seems the person that the police shot 8 times in the head actually did nothing at all wrong.

Link

He was not carrying any parcels/bags, he was not wearing bulky clothing, he did not vault over ticket barriers. The only thing he did was to run across the platform when he saw a train there about to depart.

So, all those who claimed it was his own fault -- want to retract your claims???

www.itv.com/news/story1671546.160x120.jpg





We went on the information we had. Every news organization on the planet was saying he was wearing a thick jacket and had run from police after leaving a suspected terrorist's house. Anything that we discussed here was based on what we were told by numerous credible news organizations. Why should we recant our claims?

One point: I must question the credibility of ITV. Who the heck are they? Is that some Al Jizzera website? Until I see this report on mainstream news, I really must wonder how credible it is.




Couldnt the same be said for Waco? Government thought they where terrorist and went on the information they had.




The AR15.Com discussion was based on information presented by 3rd party news reports. Hardly credible enough to formulate the basis for killing people.

The Waco incident was initiated on 1st hand information gathered by the Agents and govt officials. If I recall correctly, the ATF/FBI simply wanted to execute search warrants, and were met with non-compliance by Koresh's group. Things got out of hand, people made mistakes, which led to a fire that killed alot of people.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:06:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 12:06:43 PM EDT by BigB1129]

Originally Posted By PhilipPeake:
It seems the person that the police shot 8 times in the head actually did nothing at all wrong.

Link

He was not carrying any parcels/bags, he was not wearing bulky clothing, he did not vault over ticket barriers. The only thing he did was to run across the platform when he saw a train there about to depart.

So, all those who claimed it was his own fault -- want to retract your claims???

www.itv.com/news/story1671546.160x120.jpg



Shit happens, The people that were killed weeks before in the bombings in london didnt do anything wrong eitehr.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:07:42 PM EDT
I posted about this when it initially came out on several other forums I am on and was roundly hammered into shit over it.

My point was that if we are going to start shooting people for running away from the police, shit is going to get ugly real fast.

Civillian LE is vastly different from the .mil and we have a completely different set of ROE. This was a bad shoot period. Whoever put the intel in the hands of the streetcops needs to be fired and spend a little time in prison.

It's simply unacceptable to say "Oh well, bad luck...we'll do better next time."

For all the non-cops on this site....let's say I yell at you to stop and I have bogus intel that you are a terrorist. All you see is a guy in civillian clothes guy pointing a gun at you and screaming. Your response? Mine would be to engage the threat. If I was unarmed, it would be to get the hell out of dodge.

Unless I can clearly see credentials or uniforms, my initial reaction is going to be unpleasant.


Sheep
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:07:48 PM EDT
You do not recall correctly, so please once again, do not bring it up.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:10:00 PM EDT
Not true.


1. Failure to obey police commands

2. illegally jumping a turnstyle

3. fleeing the police
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:12:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 12:12:25 PM EDT by SheepDog_556]

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Not true.


1. Failure to obey police commands

2. illegally jumping a turnstyle

3. fleeing the police



Immediate threat of death or great bodily harm? No. Bad shoot.


Sheep
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:12:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:13:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:
All you see is a guy in civillian clothes guy pointing a gun at you and screaming.


Actually I believe they're trained (and required by law) to say this exactly, "Stop! Armed Police!".
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:17:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Not true.


1. Failure to obey police commands

2. illegally jumping a turnstyle

3. fleeing the police



Immediate threat of death or great bodily harm? No. Bad shoot.


Sheep



Maybe you need to understand the context of how these shootings happened. London cops until recently couldn't even pack. Now they are shooting young men who run from them.

What happened in the same month that would elicit such an extreme response by the police?
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:18:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Not true.


1. Failure to obey police commands

2. illegally jumping a turnstyle

3. fleeing the police



Immediate threat of death or great bodily harm? No. Bad shoot.


Sheep



Yes there was a threat. This dumb ass did this just a few days AFTER A BOMBING!!!!!!!

Sgat1r`5
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:22:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Katana16j:
If they had been racially profiling they would have realized that he's too pale to be an Arab and would have waited till the right guy came out.

*Flameshield On*



Really, Ever seen a Syrian?
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:24:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:
Originally Posted By PhilipPeake:
One point: I must question the credibility of ITV. Who the heck are they? Is that some Al Jizzera website? Until I see this report on mainstream news, I really must wonder how credible it is.




British national commercial news station… pretty shitty, It's news coverage is pretty weak.

They provide the news coverage used on the ITV TV networks. ITV schedules consist of Soaps, games shows, reality shows and Jerry Springer type shows… sort of British 'Trailer Trash TV'.


ANdy



That sounds just like the BBC

Mark
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:25:00 PM EDT
At least his family in Brazil can now buy that farm in Minas Gerais that he was saving for.....
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:28:13 PM EDT


One point: I must question the credibility of ITV. Who the heck are they? Is that some Al Jizzera website? Until I see this report on mainstream news, I really must wonder how credible it is.




ITV is the largest Non .Gov network in the UK. IIRC
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:32:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Not true.


1. Failure to obey police commands

2. illegally jumping a turnstyle

3. fleeing the police



Immediate threat of death or great bodily harm? No. Bad shoot.


Sheep



Yes there was a threat. This dumb ass did this just a few days AFTER A BOMBING!!!!!!!

Sgat1r`5



That's not an immediate threat.

Some guy who plays with dolls tries to hijack a plane here in the states. A couple of days later, I run into another guy (you) playing with dolls. You fail to obey my command to stop, you flee and you jump a turnstyle. So...now I can shoot you?

Your grasp of the law and use of force doctrine is questionable.


Sheep
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:32:20 PM EDT
Tell me:

Should constitutional protections be afforded to illegal aliens?
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:33:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Not true.


1. Failure to obey police commands

2. illegally jumping a turnstyle

3. fleeing the police



Immediate threat of death or great bodily harm? No. Bad shoot.


Sheep




If he were a bomber, then there IS an immediate threat.

THAT was the belief - in this case, it was wrong
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:35:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Not true.


1. Failure to obey police commands

2. illegally jumping a turnstyle

3. fleeing the police



4. Illegal immegrant, out stayed visa by over 12months
5. Illegally working without a work permit/visa.

Explains why he was running from police. Not so innocent, just not guilty of terrorism. Stupidly running from police just days after the bombings.

And the police do not have to shout "Stop! Armed Police!" in a suspected terrorist situation. Doing so to a suicide bomber would be asking for trouble.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:40:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Not true.


1. Failure to obey police commands

2. illegally jumping a turnstyle

3. fleeing the police



Immediate threat of death or great bodily harm? No. Bad shoot.


Sheep




If he were a bomber, then there IS an immediate threat.

THAT was the belief - in this case, it was wrong



So is executing a search warrant on a house where you mix up the address number or get bogus intel from your CI.

You make entry, suprise the shit out of the innocent occupants and end up shooting a law-abiding citizen. It's still a bad shoot.

This is why it's important to VERIFY your intel. I've worked with all manner of CIs over the years and they will say just about anything you want them too if they think it will get them off the hook.

This guy wasn't a bomber. He was just some mope who went a little bat shit when a bunch of armed dudes came running up on him.

I'll say it again. Acting on bogus information doesn't make it right. Justifying the shooting by saying that the dead guy "shouldn't have run" is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Do you have any idea the number of in-progress shootings I have rolled up on where the shitbags scatter like roaches? I get to start shooting them as they run away, failing to obey my commands, right?


Sheep
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:49:39 PM EDT
A very bad hair day, it's a shame.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:50:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Not true.


1. Failure to obey police commands

2. illegally jumping a turnstyle

3. fleeing the police



Immediate threat of death or great bodily harm? No. Bad shoot.


Sheep



Yes there was a threat. This dumb ass did this just a few days AFTER A BOMBING!!!!!!!

Sgat1r`5



That's not an immediate threat.

Some guy who plays with dolls tries to hijack a plane here in the states. A couple of days later, I run into another guy (you) playing with dolls. You fail to obey my command to stop, you flee and you jump a turnstyle. So...now I can shoot you?

Your grasp of the law and use of force doctrine is questionable.


Sheep



Mine isn't.

It's the reasonable belief that there is an imminent threat, such as he's runing onto THAT train and is going to blow it up. He's running because I told him to stop, he recognizes me, and is striving to go forward with his mission."

There's no requirement in any use of force policy, statue, or case law that I've ever read that says the belief HAS TO PROVE TRUE to condone the shoot.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:51:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PhilipPeake:
It seems the person that the police shot 8 times in the head actually did nothing at all wrong.

Link

He was not carrying any parcels/bags, he was not wearing bulky clothing, he did not vault over ticket barriers. The only thing he did was to run across the platform when he saw a train there about to depart.

So, all those who claimed it was his own fault -- want to retract your claims???NO. He broke the fuckin law,he disobeyed a police officers direct orders.......THAT IS WHAT GOT HIM KILLED.....liberal a...hole.

www.itv.com/news/story1671546.160x120.jpg

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:55:44 PM EDT
Nope.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:56:35 PM EDT
If a Police Officer tells you to do something.......its in your best "health" to do it! If you got a problem with it file a complaint or sue...the time to make your "statement" is not on the street.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:59:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:
Your grasp of the law and use of force doctrine is questionable.


Sheep




I am not a lawyer, I base my remarks on common sense.

This kid RAN FROM THE police just DAYS after a bombing occurred where he was at.


That is stupid. And stupid gets you killed sometimes.

SGatr15
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 1:53:41 PM EDT
I'm going to wait for the full report, not rely on selected quotes from leaked documents. (Documents are almost always leaked with a political bent)

NTM
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:39:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:


The Waco incident was initiated on 1st hand information gathered by the Agents and govt officials. If I recall correctly, the ATF/FBI simply wanted to execute search warrants, and were met with non-compliance by Koresh's group. Things got out of hand, people made mistakes, which led to a fire that killed alot of people.





thanks..I needed a good laugh.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:54:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigB1129: Shit happens, The people that were killed weeks before in the bombings in london didnt do anything wrong eitehr.
Exactly! The guy wasn't killed by British law enforcement, he was killed by Muslim terrorists. If the Muslim terrorists didn't hit London, the cops wouldn't be running around with guns with shoot-to-kill orders.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 1:42:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:

Originally Posted By BigB1129: Shit happens, The people that were killed weeks before in the bombings in london didnt do anything wrong eitehr.
Exactly! The guy wasn't killed by British law enforcement, he was killed by Muslim terrorists. If the Muslim terrorists didn't hit London, the cops wouldn't be running around with guns with shoot-to-kill orders.

He was a target of mistaken identity, and we are gonna see a lot more incidents like this, was not the first time and not the last time, Amadou Diallo in NYC was shot 51 times, another illegal alien that should have apprehended and deported, his biggest crime was selling knockoff DVD's. As long as there have been police and bad guys there will always be incidents like this, then you got lawyers like vultures on a fresh carcass....
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 1:58:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2005 2:00:22 PM EDT by Chuckstar]
You people who are claiming he "ran away from police", did you even read the article? It states that he did not run from the police nor did he jump the turnstile. He merely ran across the platform to catch the train. Police ran in after him, yelled something about "Police" and the guy stood up and approached them. The cops threw him down and started shooting. Now, I'm not claiming that this new information is any better or worse than previous reports, but it seems silly to not address the new information in any way in your posts.

EDIT: And let's just leave Waco out of this. There's strong opinions and emotions there, and its been debated to death.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 2:48:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By glock23carry:
Well, except whatever got him shot. Not to be less than blunt.



Um, that would be living in the wrong building, followed by being executed by overzealous militarized police.

—Dan
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 2:50:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PhilipPeake:
It seems the person that the police shot 8 times in the head actually did nothing at all wrong.

Link

He was not carrying any parcels/bags, he was not wearing bulky clothing, he did not vault over ticket barriers. The only thing he did was to run across the platform when he saw a train there about to depart.

So, all those who claimed it was his own fault -- want to retract your claims???

www.itv.com/news/story1671546.160x120.jpg

Stupid twat - hw was an ILLEGAL ALIEN. If he wasn't in England ILLEGALLY, he never would have been there to be misidentified.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 2:51:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By California_Kid:
He was in the wrong place at the wrong time. It could happen to any of us.

Not true. I won't be working and living in a country ILLEGALLY.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 2:51:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Austrian:
Tell me:

Should constitutional protections be afforded to illegal aliens?



No. But the penalty for an expired visa should not be death.

And, FYI, the cops didn't have his ID or even know his visa was expired until after the shoot, so your comments aren't even relevant here.

—Dan
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