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Posted: 2/22/2007 12:58:39 PM EST

Piscataway cop shoots, kills dog; family wants $5M

By CELANIE POLANICK
Staff Writer

PISCATAWAY -- As Maxie lay dying, Brian Colbath held her close and waited. Half her head was torn away from where the bullet entered her right eye socket, but she wasn't letting go.

Maxie, an 8-year-old Labrador and golden retriever, was shot and killed in December 2005 when township police Officer Fred Bell responded to a burglary alarm set off accidentally at the Piscataway home of Colbath's mother, Dorothy Colbath.

Maxie's owners, who live in Middlesex Borough, are seeking$5 million in damages from the township and Bell, stemming from a wrongful death suit filed in December 2006 in state Superior Court, New Brunswick. They also are calling for the courts to recognize Maxie as a member of their family.

The Colbaths expect the other side to acknowledge or deny liability by March 1, said Jamison Mark, the family's primary attorney on the case.

If the courts acknowledge Maxie as a member of the Colbath family, her owners will be eligible to recover damages to compensate for the trauma of witnessing her death -- a move that is supported by precedent, said their attorney Gina Calogero, who is covering the parts of the case related to animal law.

If won, the case will be the latest stepping stone in a legal trend that expands the definition of family and establishes benefits to match, Calogero said.

The Colbath family's claim is based on a 1980 ruling that established watching the death of a son or daughter as grounds for seeking damages. Since then, the law has extended the coverage to significant others and fetuses. In 2001, a New Jersey case suggested that if an animal is killed intentionally or recklessly, emotional distress damages might be appropriate, Calogero said.

"It's an idea whose time has come, because it's recognizing the reality of how people do react to the death of an animal, and how people put an animal in their family," she said.

Maxie spent all but the first eight weeks of her life with the Colbaths, who also have two teenagers, said Jill Colbath, Brian Colbath's wife.

The dog was in every Colbath family picture, Calogero said.

"Maxie was taken to see Santa, and had her picture taken, just like you would take a child's," Calogero said. "That dog was just as much a part of the family as the kids were."

Losing a dog suddenly is not quite the same as losing a person but can cause serious symptoms of grief nonetheless, she said.

In Maxie's case, she was "defecating, convulsing," said Jill Colbath, who wasn't at the scene of the shooting, but has heard the story so many times that she knows it by heart:

"Half her head was gone, but she was still alive. My husband looked at the officer and asked, 'Why did you shoot my (expletive) dog?' The officer said said he didn't want to get bit. My husband said, 'Don't worry, she won't bite you now.'"

The Colbath's lawsuit alleges recklessness and willful disregard of the attorney general's guidelines in the use of force, Calogero said.

"Normally, when a pet is destroyed by negligence or intentional acts, the damages are usually limited to the value of the animal, whatever that is," Calogero said. "We're saying that the value of the animal is higher -- it's not just replacement value."

On the day of the shooting, Brian Colbath went to his mother's home with Maxie to drop off some food. His mother was not home, so Maxie waited in the car while Colbath turned off the burglar alarm, put food in the refrigerator, reset the alarm and left the house.

On his way out again to dispose of some garbage behind the house, he didn't close the door completely and it popped open after the screen door shut, setting off the alarm. Brian Colbath went into the back yard and didn't hear the alarm sound, but the alarm company notified police, and Bell, a five-year police veteran in Piscataway, responded.

When Bell arrived at the scene, he saw the front door open, a broken window next to it and a car in the driveway with its door open, all setting the scene for what appeared to be a burglary in progress, said police Capt. Richard Ivone, the department's spokesman.

When Bell saw Brian Colbath and began to question him, Maxie jumped out of the car, barked and growled and approached the officer, coming within one to two feet of Bell and acting aggressively, according to a police report.

Both Bell and Brian Colbath yelled for Maxie to stop. When she didn't, Bell pulled out his service revolver and shot Maxie in the head. Bell then kept the gun trained on Brian Colbath, who rushed out to hold her, Brian Colbath said.

Bell's continued use of the gun violated Brian Colbath's Constitutional rights, Mark said.

Several other officers soon arrived, and Colbath pleaded with them to put Maxie out of her misery. She still was moving but was hemorrhaging blood and fluids from her wounds into Brian Colbath's hand, he said.

The officers insisted on dragging the dog onto the grass first so the bullet wouldn't ricochet off the driveway, Brian Colbath said.

Then, the officers shot Maxie again, this time aiming for her heart, but it took her another five minutes to die, Brian Colbath estimates.

After reviewing the details, township police determined Bell acted appropriately, said Ivone, who characterizes the dog's approach to Bell as fiercer than just barking.

"The dog comes running out at him, growling, in attack mode -- what do you do? In the safety of officers or other people, you use whatever force is necessary."


www.c-n.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070221/NEWS/702210305

Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:02:27 PM EST
I feel for the family because dogs ARE family just like any other member. In this case, I'd have no problem with some type of compenstation, but $5M is a freaking joke.

Continued insanity....

HH
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:03:07 PM EST
I'd stick up for the cop. Dogs are no fun to mess with when they show those pearly whites - though I would've done another shot to the head instead of the heart.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:04:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:
I feel for the family because dogs ARE family just like any other member. In this case, I'd have no problem with some type of compenstation, but $5M is a freaking joke.

Continued insanity....

HH


Cops really do need to explore a Tazer or pepper spray solution.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:04:32 PM EST
Dogs are not people
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:05:40 PM EST
Popcorn. Check
Adult beverage. Check.

20 pages & a lock.
2 perma-bans


Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:06:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/22/2007 1:07:15 PM EST by SteyrAUG]

Originally Posted By Izzman:
Dogs are not people


True. But they are also not "just property."

This is reinforced by the fact that if you shoot a police K9 it is "assualt on an officer."
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:08:04 PM EST
Roger that, dogs are not people and rounds dont discriminate.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:08:25 PM EST
Bingo!
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:11:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:
I feel for the family because dogs ARE family just like any other member. In this case, I'd have no problem with some type of compenstation, but $5M is a freaking joke.

Continued insanity....

HH


Cops really do need to explore a Tazer or pepper spray solution.


Absolutely right. There's GOT to be another way to subdue aggressive dogs without shooting them. You analogy to regular dogs and K-9's was spot on. Our dogs are just as valuable to us as their K-9's are.

HH
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:17:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:
I feel for the family because dogs ARE family just like any other member. In this case, I'd have no problem with some type of compenstation, but $5M is a freaking joke.


If their kid had been killed... $5 million wouldn't bring him back. No amount of money would. The settlement is supposed to be some form of compensation for their loss and a deterrent to the event happening again.

If $5 million isn't out of line in one case, it isn't out of line in the other.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:22:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/22/2007 1:25:35 PM EST by leo6223]

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:
I feel for the family because dogs ARE family just like any other member. In this case, I'd have no problem with some type of compenstation, but $5M is a freaking joke.

Continued insanity....

HH


Cops really do need to explore a Tazer or pepper spray solution.



Tazers don't work well on dogs due to the prong seperation angle and the movement of the dog (too hard to hit them)....pepper spray works well MOST of the time. However, as many dogs as I've yelled at or sprayed with OC and can tell you that when a dog is truely in attack mode with the pearly whites showing the only thing that will stop it is a bullet to the head. A good kick works well sometimes too but too dangerous with the dog bite issue. I don't expect an officer dealing with a potential threat of a burglar to holster up, chose another weapon, the reholster and address the potential burglar. Let's not forget that we're QB'ing an event with the ability of hindsight and not making split second decisions with the info known at the time. By the sound of it any reasonable person would think a burg was happening



I'm not saying all dogs need to be shot, but as a cop on the scene of a likely burglary in progress (nothing at the point of the dog attack would necessarly defuse the officer to believe it wasn't a burg in progress) with a dog who won't stop EVEN AFTER the owner himself can't control the dog (read the story) would cause me to fear that the dog was going to attack.

Don't know the whole story, but based on the limited info presented in the article, I'm going to say give the homeowner $100 for the dog. No more, no less.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:27:56 PM EST
OC doesn't work well on dogs. Even if it did, it's effects are not instant.

Taser might be better, but since the probes follow different paths, and both have to hit for the Taser to work, the marksmanship can be difficult.

Next, how many times have you heard a dog bite story that includes the phrase "my dog doesn't bite" from the owner either immediately before or in the aftermath of the bite. DOGS BITE, it is in their nature. Dog owners need to be able to control their animals.

Next, both the officer and the owner yelled at the dog. I don't know that a stranger yelling at a excited dog helps the situation. I would let the owner do the talking. However, if the talking from the owner isn't INSTANTLY effective, the owner needs to take other steps to control their dog.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:28:49 PM EST
[arfcom]Yeah but was the dog OK?[/arfcom]
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:29:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By leo6223:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:
I feel for the family because dogs ARE family just like any other member. In this case, I'd have no problem with some type of compenstation, but $5M is a freaking joke.

Continued insanity....

HH


Cops really do need to explore a Tazer or pepper spray solution.



Tazers don't work well on dogs due to the prong seperation angle and the movement of the dog (too hard to hit them)....pepper spray works well MOST of the time. However, as many dogs as I've yelled at or sprayed with OC and can tell you that when a dog is truely in attack mode with the pearly whites showing the only thing that will stop it is a bullet to the head. A good kick works well sometimes too but too dangerous with the dog bite issue. I don't expect an officer dealing with a potential threat of a burglar to holster up, chose another weapon, the reholster and address the potential burglar. Let's not forget that we're QB'ing an event with the ability of hindsight and not making split second decisions with the info known at the time. By the sound of it any reasonable person would think a burg was happening



I'm not saying all dogs need to be shot, but as a cop on the scene of a likely burglary in progress (nothing at the point of the dog attack would necessarly defuse the officer to believe it wasn't a burg in progress) with a dog who won't stop EVEN AFTER the owner himself can't control the dog (read the story) would cause me to fear that the dog was going to attack.

Don't know the whole story, but based on the limited info presented in the article, I'm going to say give the homeowner $100 for the dog. No more, no less.


My point remains that they need to come up with a LTL Doggy solution.

If for no other reason than to save PDs from lawsuits such as this, potential liabilty of having to discharge an officers firearm around families with kids who may be protective of the pet and least of all the guilt associated with having to shoot somebodies dog.

Seems to me this is a worthwhile thing to do.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:29:22 PM EST
The owner should be ticketed for not having his animal under control. The officer did nothing wrong. They should be able to shoot anything or anyone they feel is a threat to them. That's why they go through weeks of training. Obviously this officer knew exactly what needed to be done at the time. Anybody guessing otherwise is just Monday morning quarterbacking.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:30:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
OC doesn't work well on dogs. Even if it did, it's effects are not instant.

Taser might be better, but since the probes follow different paths, and both have to hit for the Taser to work, the marksmanship can be difficult.

Next, how many times have you heard a dog bite story that includes the phrase "my dog doesn't bite" from the owner either immediately before or in the aftermath of the bite. DOGS BITE, it is in their nature. Dog owners need to be able to control their animals.

Next, both the officer and the owner yelled at the dog. I don't know that a stranger yelling at a excited dog helps the situation. I would let the owner do the talking. However, if the talking from the owner isn't INSTANTLY effective, the owner needs to take other steps to control their dog.


Not trying to give you shit but when I had a paper route as a kid we dealt with aggressive territorial dogs armed only with squirt guns full of lemon juice.

Perhaps officers could be issued such weapons and trained in their use by 8 year old kids.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:31:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Izzman:
Dogs are not people


True. But they are also not "just property."

This is reinforced by the fact that if you shoot a police K9 it is "assualt on an officer."


Keep repeating the internet fairy tale and maybe it will be true.

I heard on the 'net a private citizen can order a firearm and have it shipped to an FFL, then the FFL HAS to do the transfer, since the citizen owns the gun.

If you attack certain animals, police dogs, police horses, seeing eye dogs, or other guide dogs, there is more of a penalty thant attacking animals that are not as highly trained. It has to do with the cost to purchase, train, and maintain, that specialty animal.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:35:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By Izzman:
Dogs are not people


Some cops are stupid thugs.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:35:50 PM EST
FFS, just do what I did with my old German Shepherd when he was misbehaving and biting many years ago. He bit me, so I grabbed him and bit him on the snout. *YELP!* Showed proper respect and never bit the Alpha again.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:35:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Izzman:
Dogs are not people


True. But they are also not "just property."

This is reinforced by the fact that if you shoot a police K9 it is "assualt on an officer."


Steyr, I expected better of you than to regurgitate this drivel. It's an Arfcom BS line that will NOT die.

Dogs are not people, and killing a police dog is not assault on an officer, not even in Cali.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:36:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Not trying to give you shit but when I had a paper route as a kid we dealt with aggressive territorial dogs armed only with squirt guns full of lemon juice.

Perhaps officers could be issued such weapons and trained in their use by 8 year old kids.


I was bit twice as a paper boy..............................

If I had to carry everything that someone said would be a good idea to have, I would need a powered exoskeleton, and motorized cart, or a Segway with a tow package, and a trailer.

Next, dogs seem to react more aggressively to uniforms. The paper boy who is passing through, is usually less of a issue than an officer, that moves into the "dog's territory" and takes charge.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:36:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By ScoutOut:
The owner should be ticketed for not having his animal under control. The officer did nothing wrong. They should be able to shoot anything or anyone they feel is a threat to them. That's why they go through weeks of trainin. Obviously this officer knew exactly what needed to be done at the time. Anybody guessing otherwise is just Monday morning quarterbacking.


WOW
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:38:28 PM EST
Just another Barnie Fife, take the retards bullets away.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:38:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/22/2007 1:54:34 PM EST by Life1978]
Speaking from experience at TAZAR or Pepper Spray(Fox 5.3) work very well on attacking dogs.

I do have to agree though with who ever posted it, that if I was the officer and responding to a home break in call I would not put away my weapon which I had drawn on the assumed suspect to deal with the dog.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:38:50 PM EST
Jeezz U go to a house on a Buglar call and theres is a dog in the house growling at U. HMMM would U think that the dog would NOT let a CRIMINAL in the house too? Sorry but there is too many cops shooting family pets these days. Did they shoot dogs like this 40 years ago? Yes 5 Mill is way to much. Srpay the dog with OC next time it will stop .
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:38:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By leo6223:
By the sound of it any reasonable person would think a burg was happening






except for the fact that 100% of family pets would be in the immediate area of the burgular, barking like crazy, or chewing on him- not going outside to look at the cruiser
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:39:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By fiend:

Originally Posted By ScoutOut:
The owner should be ticketed for not having his animal under control. The officer did nothing wrong. They should be able to shoot anything or anyone they feel is a threat to them. That's why they go through weeks of trainin. Obviously this officer knew exactly what needed to be done at the time. Anybody guessing otherwise is just Monday morning quarterbacking.


WOW



Not WOW BAAAAAH!
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:41:43 PM EST
best part on a morning news show they interveiwed the family, they asked how long do you think itll take to get a new dog? they answered we went out and bought one the next day because they missed having a dog around. I beleive it was 101.5.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:42:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By M4-TUNA:
Jeezz U go to a house on a Buglar call and theres is a dog in the house growling at U. HMMM would U think that the dog would NOT let a CRIMINAL in the house too? Sorry but there is too many cops shooting family pets these days. Did they shoot dogs like this 40 years ago? Yes 5 Mill is way to much. Srpay the dog with OC next time it will stop .


When Bell arrived at the scene, he saw the front door open, a broken window next to it and a car in the driveway with its door open, all setting the scene for what appeared to be a burglary in progress, said police Capt. Richard Ivone, the department's spokesman.

When Bell saw Brian Colbath and began to question him, Maxie jumped out of the car, barked and growled and approached the officer, coming within one to two feet of Bell and acting aggressively, according to a police report.

Reading is fun, you should try it.

Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:45:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By DontShootMyDog:

Originally Posted By leo6223:
By the sound of it any reasonable person would think a burg was happening






except for the fact that 100% of family pets would be in the immediate area of the burgular, barking like crazy, or chewing on him- not going outside to look at the cruiser


you serious clark?

LE shows up, sees the suspicious scene, starts to engage with an unknown person, dog attacks him before he or any reasonable person can identify the homeowner(possible robber) or the dog, and he is in the wrong???

What was he supposed to do in that situation rather than what he did?

I think he handled the situation great. I guess he could have asked the homeowner(possible robber) to hold on a sec why he tries to subdue the dog without hurting it
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:47:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Izzman:
Dogs are not people


True. But they are also not "just property."

This is reinforced by the fact that if you shoot a police K9 it is "assualt on an officer."


Keep repeating the internet fairy tale and maybe it will be true.

I heard on the 'net a private citizen can order a firearm and have it shipped to an FFL, then the FFL HAS to do the transfer, since the citizen owns the gun.

If you attack certain animals, police dogs, police horses, seeing eye dogs, or other guide dogs, there is more of a penalty thant attacking animals that are not as highly trained. It has to do with the cost to purchase, train, and maintain, that specialty animal.


Not true at all.

A homeless man in Hollywood FL just last year was charged with "assaulting an officer" when he stabbed a police dog with a screw driver. It didn't happen on the internet, it happened in my county.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:47:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/22/2007 1:50:08 PM EST by Johninaustin]
My prediction based on extensive dog shooting experiences (and city legal)

The lawyer will ask for 5 mil, the city will counter with 5K, the family will accept and the lawyer will get 3K for his fee. This will be concluded by close of business Monday.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:48:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Not trying to give you shit but when I had a paper route as a kid we dealt with aggressive territorial dogs armed only with squirt guns full of lemon juice.

Perhaps officers could be issued such weapons and trained in their use by 8 year old kids.


I was bit twice as a paper boy..............................



We're sending you back through paper boy boot camp.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:51:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Izzman:
Dogs are not people


True. But they are also not "just property."

This is reinforced by the fact that if you shoot a police K9 it is "assualt on an officer."


Keep repeating the internet fairy tale and maybe it will be true.

I heard on the 'net a private citizen can order a firearm and have it shipped to an FFL, then the FFL HAS to do the transfer, since the citizen owns the gun.

If you attack certain animals, police dogs, police horses, seeing eye dogs, or other guide dogs, there is more of a penalty thant attacking animals that are not as highly trained. It has to do with the cost to purchase, train, and maintain, that specialty animal.


Not true at all.

A homeless man in Hollywood FL just last year was charged with "assaulting an officer" when he stabbed a police dog with a screw driver. It didn't happen on the internet, it happened in my county.


Then you should not have any trouble finding the revelant statute then.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:52:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/22/2007 1:54:19 PM EST by SteyrAUG]

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Izzman:
Dogs are not people


True. But they are also not "just property."

This is reinforced by the fact that if you shoot a police K9 it is "assualt on an officer."


Steyr, I expected better of you than to regurgitate this drivel. It's an Arfcom BS line that will NOT die.

Dogs are not people, and killing a police dog is not assault on an officer, not even in Cali.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_dog


In recognition of the valuable role these animals play in police duties and the dangers they face, there have been a number of measures to ensure their protection. These include outfitting dogs with bulletproof vests to protect them from guns and some areas have passed laws that make attacking a police dog a felony (in New Jersey, after a police dog was killed in the line of duty, the NJ General Assembly attempted to pass legislation that would treat the murder of an on-duty police dog as the same as the murder of an on-duty police officer, allowing the state attorney general or county district attorneys to pursue the death penalty). In some jurisdictions police dogs are considered to be police officers in law so that any penalty that can be applied to the assault of a human police officer can also apply to an assault on a police dog.

Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:52:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By M4-TUNA:
Jeezz U go to a house on a Buglar call and theres is a dog in the house growling at U. HMMM would U think that the dog would NOT let a CRIMINAL in the house too? Sorry but there is too many cops shooting family pets these days. Did they shoot dogs like this 40 years ago? Yes 5 Mill is way to much. Srpay the dog with OC next time it will stop .


OC only works on dogs not commited to the attack (posturing)...a taser works GREAT.......IF, I REPEAT IF you can hit the dog with it. (reloads are slow and a moving dog is hard to hit with those slow moving probes - it's just compressed air, not gun powder moving those things)

A commited dog in the ATTACK will not stop. Hell, I've shot pitbulls with .223 in the attack and it only slightly diverted him....wound up attacking another officer who shot it again and diverted the dog.

Any dog trainer, or K9 handler, on this website who is worth his salt can tell you that a dog in attack mode will not be dettered by OC....they will still bite.


Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:54:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By DontShootMyDog:

Originally Posted By leo6223:
By the sound of it any reasonable person would think a burg was happening






except for the fact that 100% of family pets would be in the immediate area of the burgular, barking like crazy, or chewing on him- not going outside to look at the cruiser


Dog jumped out of the car genius....read the article. Why couldn't a criminal have a dog in the car? I've pulled over gang bangers that keep pits in the car to deter officers from doing searches.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:56:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Izzman:
Dogs are not people


True. But they are also not "just property."

This is reinforced by the fact that if you shoot a police K9 it is "assualt on an officer."


Steyr, I expected better of you than to regurgitate this drivel. It's an Arfcom BS line that will NOT die.

Dogs are not people, and killing a police dog is not assault on an officer, not even in Cali.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_dog


In recognition of the valuable role these animals play in police duties and the dangers they face, there have been a number of measures to ensure their protection. These include outfitting dogs with bulletproof vests to protect them from guns and some areas have passed laws that make attacking a police dog a felony (in New Jersey, after a police dog was killed in the line of duty, the NJ General Assembly attempted to pass legislation that would treat the murder of an on-duty police dog as the same as the murder of an on-duty police officer, allowing the state attorney general or county district attorneys to pursue the death penalty). In some jurisdictions police dogs are considered to be police officers in law so that any penalty that can be applied to the assault of a human police officer can also apply to an assault on a police dog.



Nope, sorry Wiki is not a definitive source. In legal matters a high school govt class is better. Try the actual statute.

Let me help you. An animal is not human, An animal has never been ruled to have the same legal status as a human. A dog cannot be a victim of assault anymore than a sheep can be the victim of rape or a horse the victim of robbery.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:59:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Izzman:
Dogs are not people


True. But they are also not "just property."

This is reinforced by the fact that if you shoot a police K9 it is "assualt on an officer."


Keep repeating the internet fairy tale and maybe it will be true.

I heard on the 'net a private citizen can order a firearm and have it shipped to an FFL, then the FFL HAS to do the transfer, since the citizen owns the gun.

If you attack certain animals, police dogs, police horses, seeing eye dogs, or other guide dogs, there is more of a penalty thant attacking animals that are not as highly trained. It has to do with the cost to purchase, train, and maintain, that specialty animal.


Not true at all.

A homeless man in Hollywood FL just last year was charged with "assaulting an officer" when he stabbed a police dog with a screw driver. It didn't happen on the internet, it happened in my county.


Then you should not have any trouble finding the revelant statute then.



843.19 Offenses against police dogs, fire dogs, SAR dogs, or police horses.--

Any person who intentionally and knowingly, without lawful cause or justification, causes great bodily harm, permanent disability, or death to, or uses a deadly weapon upon, a police dog, fire dog, SAR dog, or police horse commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

Link Posted: 2/22/2007 1:59:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Izzman:
Dogs are not people


True. But they are also not "just property."

This is reinforced by the fact that if you shoot a police K9 it is "assualt on an officer."


Steyr, I expected better of you than to regurgitate this drivel. It's an Arfcom BS line that will NOT die.

Dogs are not people, and killing a police dog is not assault on an officer, not even in Cali.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_dog


In recognition of the valuable role these animals play in police duties and the dangers they face, there have been a number of measures to ensure their protection. These include outfitting dogs with bulletproof vests to protect them from guns and some areas have passed laws that make attacking a police dog a felony (in New Jersey, after a police dog was killed in the line of duty, the NJ General Assembly attempted to pass legislation that would treat the murder of an on-duty police dog as the same as the murder of an on-duty police officer, allowing the state attorney general or county district attorneys to pursue the death penalty). In some jurisdictions police dogs are considered to be police officers in law so that any penalty that can be applied to the assault of a human police officer can also apply to an assault on a police dog.



Harming a police dog in Florida falls under obstruction of justice Chapter 843. Not battery on a LEO. (chapter 784)
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 2:00:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/22/2007 2:03:53 PM EST by M4-TUNA]

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By M4-TUNA:
Jeezz U go to a house on a Buglar call and theres is a dog in the house growling at U. HMMM would U think that the dog would NOT let a CRIMINAL in the house too? Sorry but there is too many cops shooting family pets these days. Did they shoot dogs like this 40 years ago? Yes 5 Mill is way to much. Srpay the dog with OC next time it will stop .


When Bell arrived at the scene, he saw the front door open, a broken window next to it and a car in the driveway with its door open, all setting the scene for what appeared to be a burglary in progress, said police Capt. Richard Ivone, the department's spokesman.

When Bell saw Brian Colbath and began to question him, Maxie jumped out of the car, barked and growled and approached the officer, coming within one to two feet of Bell and acting aggressively, according to a police report.

Reading is fun, you should try it.

No reading sucks, I like pictures better. What would happen if the damn bullet went thru the dog and hit the owner killing the person of the dog and the house he was at? OC works great. Sound like every damn day you here about a cop shooting someones pet. I bet there has been some cats shot too from cops . I have seen alot of police report forged too just to cover someones ass. But I was not there so I cant really judge. OH OC spray works great on lil doggies. So I guess OC spray does not work on Grizzlies. I better havea 500 magnum if I go to Alaska since a 1000 lbs animal is coming at me at full bore the gun will stop it faster. MAYBE
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 2:03:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/22/2007 2:06:41 PM EST by viper5194]
Call me a freak if you will, but my dogs are indeed a huge part of my family. I have no kids, my dogs are my kids. I have as much fun with my dogs as I do my sisters children. About a year and a half ago my 3yr old black lab in my mind, and much of my familys minds- saved my nephews life. My nephen was running after a ball towards a fairly busy road and way outa reach of any adult when we realized what he was doing. My oldest lab Cheyanne loves to play and chase kids and when I she saw him running and I told her to get him, she literaly chased him down, grabbed his shirt and drug him to the ground less than 3 feet from the road he was about to run into. If he had made it to the road he would be dead today. For that id give my life for my oldest lab. Id truely hate to see the outcome of anyone includeing an officer shooting or assaulting either of my dogs.

Dogs growl, thats what dosgs do. Dogs show their teeth, thats what dogs do. Niether of these actions means a dog is going to attack. Ive found if you present yourself as the dominat figure most dogs will back down.

Link Posted: 2/22/2007 2:03:47 PM EST
The police should be mandated to have training by Postal Carriers who are experienced with------

Wait, maybe that's not such a good idea after all.......
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 2:05:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Izzman:
Dogs are not people


True. But they are also not "just property."

This is reinforced by the fact that if you shoot a police K9 it is "assualt on an officer."


Keep repeating the internet fairy tale and maybe it will be true.

I heard on the 'net a private citizen can order a firearm and have it shipped to an FFL, then the FFL HAS to do the transfer, since the citizen owns the gun.

If you attack certain animals, police dogs, police horses, seeing eye dogs, or other guide dogs, there is more of a penalty thant attacking animals that are not as highly trained. It has to do with the cost to purchase, train, and maintain, that specialty animal.


Not true at all.

A homeless man in Hollywood FL just last year was charged with "assaulting an officer" when he stabbed a police dog with a screw driver. It didn't happen on the internet, it happened in my county.


Then you should not have any trouble finding the revelant statute then.



843.19 Offenses against police dogs, fire dogs, SAR dogs, or police horses.--

Any person who intentionally and knowingly, without lawful cause or justification, causes great bodily harm, permanent disability, or death to, or uses a deadly weapon upon, a police dog, fire dog, SAR dog, or police horse commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.



Okay, now we are getting somewhere. Show where it states in there that injuring a police dog is assaulting as officer as you claim
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 2:08:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/22/2007 2:09:15 PM EST by Johninaustin]

Originally Posted By M4-TUNA:


No reading sucks, I like pictures better. What would happen if the damn bullet went thru the dog and hit the owner killing the person of the dog and the house he was at? OC works great. Sound like every damn day you here about a cop shooting someones pet. I bet there has been some cats shot too from cops . I have seen alot of police report forged too just to cover someones ass. But I was not there so I cant really judge. OH OC spray works great on lil doggies. So I guess OC spray does not work on Grizzlies. I better havea 500 magnum if I go to Alaska since a 1000 lbs animal is coming at me at full bore the gun will stop it faster. MAYBE


Is anyone here an expert in gibberish?
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 2:08:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/22/2007 2:11:49 PM EST by brian4wd]

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_dog


In recognition of the valuable role these animals play in police duties and the dangers they face, there have been a number of measures to ensure their protection. These include outfitting dogs with bulletproof vests to protect them from guns and some areas have passed laws that make attacking a police dog a felony (in New Jersey, after a police dog was killed in the line of duty, the NJ General Assembly attempted to pass legislation that would treat the murder of an on-duty police dog as the same as the murder of an on-duty police officer, allowing the state attorney general or county district attorneys to pursue the death penalty). In some jurisdictions police dogs are considered to be police officers in law so that any penalty that can be applied to the assault of a human police officer can also apply to an assault on a police dog.


How about something a bit more legitimate? Maybe the relevant FL statute the homeless guy was charged with?

Police K-9's have 'protection' under the law because of the capacity in which they serve - just like firefighters, paramedics, police officers, etc. However, the dog is not 'protected' under the same statute because it is not a human.

Brian
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 2:11:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/22/2007 2:12:05 PM EST by M4-TUNA]

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Izzman:
Dogs are not people


True. But they are also not "just property."

This is reinforced by the fact that if you shoot a police K9 it is "assualt on an officer."


Keep repeating the internet fairy tale and maybe it will be true.

I heard on the 'net a private citizen can order a firearm and have it shipped to an FFL, then the FFL HAS to do the transfer, since the citizen owns the gun.

If you attack certain animals, police dogs, police horses, seeing eye dogs, or other guide dogs, there is more of a penalty thant attacking animals that are not as highly trained. It has to do with the cost to purchase, train, and maintain, that specialty animal.


Not true at all.

A homeless man in Hollywood FL just last year was charged with "assaulting an officer" when he stabbed a police dog with a screw driver. It didn't happen on the internet, it happened in my county.


Then you should not have any trouble finding the revelant statute then.



843.19 Offenses against police dogs, fire dogs, SAR dogs, or police horses.--

Any person who intentionally and knowingly, without lawful cause or justification, causes great bodily harm, permanent disability, or death to, or uses a deadly weapon upon, a police dog, fire dog, SAR dog, or police horse commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.



Okay, now we are getting somewhere. Show where it states in there that injuring a police dog is assaulting as officer as you claim
It is the law. So what happens when a Police dog attacks me and he or she has no badge or vest on and I kill it???????????????????????????????????????????­???? I go to jail for killing a cop that is what happens. It has happen so far there was a story about that not too long ago. Cops are God, stay clear of them if U dont want to go to jail or get shot. Just lay down on the ground and DONT move.Im not against cops, Hell I know alot of them here in Jax's. I just dont like them running over us Civies when they feel like it.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 2:13:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By M4-TUNA:

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Izzman:
Dogs are not people


True. But they are also not "just property."

This is reinforced by the fact that if you shoot a police K9 it is "assualt on an officer."


Keep repeating the internet fairy tale and maybe it will be true.

I heard on the 'net a private citizen can order a firearm and have it shipped to an FFL, then the FFL HAS to do the transfer, since the citizen owns the gun.

If you attack certain animals, police dogs, police horses, seeing eye dogs, or other guide dogs, there is more of a penalty thant attacking animals that are not as highly trained. It has to do with the cost to purchase, train, and maintain, that specialty animal.


Not true at all.

A homeless man in Hollywood FL just last year was charged with "assaulting an officer" when he stabbed a police dog with a screw driver. It didn't happen on the internet, it happened in my county.


Then you should not have any trouble finding the revelant statute then.



843.19 Offenses against police dogs, fire dogs, SAR dogs, or police horses.--

Any person who intentionally and knowingly, without lawful cause or justification, causes great bodily harm, permanent disability, or death to, or uses a deadly weapon upon, a police dog, fire dog, SAR dog, or police horse commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.



Okay, now we are getting somewhere. Show where it states in there that injuring a police dog is assaulting as officer as you claim
It is the law. So what happens when a Police dog attacks me and he or she has no badge or vest on and I kill it???????????????????????????????????????????­???? I go to jail for killing a cop that is what happens. It has happen so far there was a story about that not too long ago. Cops are God, stay clear of them if U dont want to go to jail or get shot. Just lay down on the ground and DONT move.Im not against cops, Hell I know alot of them here in Jax's. I just dont like them running over us Civies when they feel like it.


Maybe you should stop drinking and posting.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 2:13:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Izzman:
Dogs are not people


True. But they are also not "just property."

This is reinforced by the fact that if you shoot a police K9 it is "assualt on an officer."


No, it is not. Attacking, striking, teasing, etc. of police animals usually are covered in a state's laws regarding humane treatment of animals, not Crimes vs. Persons. You know better.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 2:14:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By jnojr:

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:
I feel for the family because dogs ARE family just like any other member. In this case, I'd have no problem with some type of compenstation, but $5M is a freaking joke.


If their kid had been killed... $5 million wouldn't bring him back. No amount of money would. The settlement is supposed to be some form of compensation for their loss and a deterrent to the event happening again.

If $5 million isn't out of line in one case, it isn't out of line in the other.


$5M wouldn't cover one toe of any of my kids or wife, but $5M for a dog is ridiculously excessive.

HH
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