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Posted: 10/10/2004 7:30:17 PM EST
I fail to see why everyone makes such a big deal about them . I do think mandates for them are really stupid, but the whole concept of an indicator is not dumb in my book. I have several Sigs. Some of them have a little space so you can see if a bullet is loaded in the chamber. I like this because if I want to carry the gun I can be assured the gun is loaded without constantly clearing the gun and rechambering a round which can lead to ammo reliability problems. I still drop the mag to make sure I don't just have a loaded chamber with an empty mag. So why all the fuss?? Remember I DO think making them required is stupid. I kinda feel the same way about those internal gun locks. I don't like them personally, but what about the guy who just wants a .22 or some other gun for him and his son to shoot. What if he doesn't plan to use it for self defense and doesn't have a safe. It seems like the little lock thingy is a good thing in this situation. Please don't take me to be a anti who wants more gun laws as I own many evil black rifles and conceal carry everywhere it's legal. I'm just curious why some people are so rabidly against these things?
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:32:31 PM EST
My guess is one step closer is one step too far. By slowley allowing anti gun idealology (spell check), they can eventually ban all guns.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:32:38 PM EST
I find them annoying mayself, I really hate the position on the one on the XDs
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:38:50 PM EST
Probably the reason is that for them to be offered it usually means a law has been passed to FORCE the manufacturer to make ALL his guns this way. It would be quite another thing if you could buy a CLEARPLAY™ like version of the gun you want with safety features. I'm all for choice in this matter. It could be a new market or after market.

Unfortunately the gun haters cannot fathom choice let alone rights except for themselves.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:31:39 PM EST
Yeah, that's right.
If the market wants things the market creates demand for those things. And manufacturers respond. The ones who respond the best get the best rewards.
When people/states try to legislate the market all hell breaks loose. It goes against a free market dynamic and becomes coercion.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:32:37 PM EST
How about magazine disconnect safties?

CRC
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:51:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:
How about magazine disconnect safties?
CRC



They can get you killed.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:12:51 PM EST
I don't really see the purpose of a magazine dissconect safety. The only "extra" safety feature I like is a loaded chamber indicator. My finger and my vault are the only manual safeties I personally rely on.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:16:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 5:16:59 PM EST by fight4yourrights]

Originally Posted By SIG_220:


I can be assured the gun is loaded without constantly clearing the gun and rechambering a round which can lead to ammo reliability problems.




PRESS CHECK
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:17:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
PRESS CHECK



+1
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:20:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By racer934:

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
PRESS CHECK



+1



+2
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:20:50 PM EST
Apparently some cops like the magazine disconnect safety in case the perp gets his gun.

Release the mag and the gun is useless.

CRC
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:22:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:


Release the mag and the gun is useless.

CRC



That's a double edged sword that cuts both ways.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:22:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By Taxman:
I find them annoying mayself, I really hate the position on the one on the XDs



Why?
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:05:21 PM EST

How about magazine disconnect safties?



Apparently some cops like the magazine disconnect safety in case the perp gets his gun.

Release the mag and the gun is useless.



I've put some thought into this and yes it could very well be a double edged sword.

Situation 1: You're fighting with the bad guy for control of your gun, you drop magazine, let go and immediately go for your backup gun, knife, or can o'whoopass.

Situation 2: You're fighting with the bad guy for control of your gun, you drop magazine, he lets go and the first thing you will want to do is shoot him but you can't!

I've also heard the argument that with a 1911 on safe, a bad guy can get your gun and "might" not know how to unsafe it and you commence on plan B. I wouldn't put much credence in this one. Just sounds too ify.

I think the most "propietary" pistol would be the HK P-7 series because of the squeeze cocker, its a rare enough pistol that somone wouldn't know to squeeze the cocker. Too bad P-7s are $1000+
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:07:07 PM EST
Situation 3 - during the struggle, the mag release gets pressed enough to loosen the mag. You retain the weapon, but it wont' fire now.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:07:32 PM EST

PRESS CHECK

I'm not really sure what that means.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:09:29 PM EST
If all guns are required to have indicators, we will grow accostomed to it, and not check the chamber anymore. If the indicator should fail, there will be an ND.

That and what everyone else has said.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:09:41 PM EST
I read on one of the Ruger boards that the new MKIII production is hold because of this. Seems the inicator rest on the rim of the shell and they have discovered if the gun is dropped at a certain angle it can cause a discharge. Interesting as to why the gun was put into production with out this being discovered before hand.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:10:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 6:10:57 PM EST by fight4yourrights]

Originally Posted By SIG_220:


PRESS CHECK

I'm not really sure what that means.




You take your weak hand and move the slide enough to slip a finger in to check for a round in the chamber


I would HIGHLY recommend you take a Tactical Handgun course. It's one of the things they will cover.


Visual indicators are worthless at night, BTW
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:21:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By Yankee1911:

Originally Posted By racer934:

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
PRESS CHECK



+1



+2

+3

don't forget murphy. these are mechanical devices that can and will fail.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:28:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By SIG_220:


PRESS CHECK

I'm not really sure what that means.




You take your weak hand and move the slide enough to slip a finger in to check for a round in the chamber


I would HIGHLY recommend you take a Tactical Handgun course. It's one of the things they will cover.


Visual indicators are worthless at night, BTW

that's why i like the XD indicator, you can feel to see if a round is chambered.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:32:31 PM EST
I think the chamber indicators are a waste of time. The ONLY safe ways to check a chamber is to visually confirm it or feel it with your finger. Chamber indicators can fail.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:43:14 PM EST
situation 4. you do a tactical reload before completely emptying the gun. for some reason you need to fire that one round that's still in the gun before getting the fresh mag in. but you can't
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 7:02:01 PM EST

Visual indicators are worthless at night, BTW

I just like them for when I pull one of my carry pistols out of my safe not to check once I'm actually carrying my gun. The space on my sigs lets you visibly see the case in the chamber so I'm not quite sure how it will fail me. Wouldn't barely pulling the slide back create the possibility of the slide not going quite all the way back since when you let go it won't have as much force as when you completely rack the slide and release it. Kinda like riding the slide forward I guess.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 7:05:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By SIG_220:


Wouldn't barely pulling the slide back create the possibility of the slide not going quite all the way back since when you let go it won't have as much force as when you completely rack the slide and release it. Kinda like riding the slide forward I guess.




Yes/No. It's something you practice and it's not a concern.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 7:06:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By sharky30:
situation 4. you do a tactical reload before completely emptying the gun. for some reason you need to fire that one round that's still in the gun before getting the fresh mag in. but you can't



Good point but then wouldn't your slide lock back on you with an empty gun?

CRC
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 7:07:17 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 7:07:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 7:07:45 PM EST by fight4yourrights]

Originally Posted By CRC:

Originally Posted By sharky30:
situation 4. you do a tactical reload before completely emptying the gun. for some reason you need to fire that one round that's still in the gun before getting the fresh mag in. but you can't



Good point but then wouldn't your slide lock back on you with an empty gun?

CRC




No, you are in the middle of a reload - no mag is in the gun
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 7:08:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 7:08:56 PM EST by CRC]
That's what I thought but then wouldn't you have to waste seconds racking the slide again?

CRC
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