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Posted: 3/7/2006 1:06:56 PM EDT
Many years ago, in a land far away, I was invited to, attended and participated in several live pigeon shoots. I have lost contact with my host.

I do, however, still own a proper pigeon gun and a strong desire to compete again. Can anybody hook me up with the contact info I need.

Pigeon matches are held in strict confidence due to protests from PETA and assorted bunny huggers. There also is a matter of gambling involved so you may not see them advertised on TV.
So I need the invite.

Please IM me with any info...I am willing to travel.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:14:40 PM EDT
Is this anything like a European pheasant shoot? Several places around here do those, not cheap though.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:21:21 PM EDT
I wish somebody would come to where I live and shoot a few.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:24:15 PM EDT
go to the local shooing club with a ring and ask around. i've worked a couple and it is very hush hush.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:29:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:30:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JimTh:
Is this anything like a European pheasant shoot? Several places around here do those, not cheap though.



Nothing like a pheasant shoot. Much more costly, or possibly proffitable.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:31:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
I just don't see the point to it.

I don't have a problem with killing birds you're going to eat, but who eats adult pigeons?

Killing them just for sport and not eating them is a waste, condemned by the majority of most
civilized societies, and seems to me to be one of those things that you do that makes St. Peter
stop when he's reading your life's story book as you wait at the gate, and cast a cold, speculative
glare at you as he tries to figure out which button to push for you....up or down?

Killing for no point at all except as a test of your skill against dumb, scared birds, just doesn't fly with me.

"Hey, are you going to eat that?"

If the answer is no, you shouldn't be killing it.

CJ


This has good reasoning until you realize that their sole purpose in life is to shit on my car.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:31:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By blackandsilver:
go to the local shooing club with a ring and ask around. i've worked a couple and it is very hush hush.



I can't find a ring that is active. I am trying...
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:32:03 PM EDT
I don't eat rats, spiders or coyotes etc....they are pest and should be treated that way. I don't see the difference between them and pigeons.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:33:09 PM EDT
IBTL regarding section 4 of the COC


i thought you were goign to talk about plugging pigeons with a 22.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:35:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 1:35:30 PM EDT by Wolfpack]
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:35:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 1:43:12 PM EDT by bubba99]

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
I just don't see the point to it.

I don't have a problem with killing birds you're going to eat, but who eats adult pigeons?

Killing them just for sport and not eating them is a waste, condemned by the majority of most
civilized societies, and seems to me to be one of those things that you do that makes St. Peter
stop when he's reading your life's story book as you wait at the gate, and cast a cold, speculative
glare at you as he tries to figure out which button to push for you....up or down?

Killing for no point at all except as a test of your skill against dumb, scared birds, just doesn't fly with me.

"Hey, are you going to eat that?"

If the answer is no, you shouldn't be killing it.

CJ



Have you ever eaten squab? It is not bad.

This is not a blood sport like Mexican Bull Fighting. Pigeon flight cannot be simulated.

They are trapped from barns as well as city roofs, sometimes raised for the sport.

There is no test against the bird, the test is against other shooters.

I didn't ask for your opinion of the sport, and could careless if it "flies with you."

This sport is over two hundred years old and today it suddenly bothers you?

Do you release other pests?
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:36:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:37:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By j-fonz:

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
I just don't see the point to it.

I don't have a problem with killing birds you're going to eat, but who eats adult pigeons?

Killing them just for sport and not eating them is a waste, condemned by the majority of most
civilized societies, and seems to me to be one of those things that you do that makes St. Peter
stop when he's reading your life's story book as you wait at the gate, and cast a cold, speculative
glare at you as he tries to figure out which button to push for you....up or down?

Killing for no point at all except as a test of your skill against dumb, scared birds, just doesn't fly with me.

"Hey, are you going to eat that?"

If the answer is no, you shouldn't be killing it.

CJ


This has good reasoning until you realize that their sole purpose in life is to shit on my car.

Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:41:42 PM EDT
the birds are usually hauling ass out of the trap, they have a great chance of surviving if the conditions are right, if you can hit all thirty birds consistantly you'll be one rich guy. i have met some of the nicest people at these events plus they are all loaded. most people that shoot these events are doctors, lawyers, and owners of very large buisnesses.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:44:10 PM EDT
is there actually competitions out there for shooting pigeons? I so need to join one of those! What's a good pigeon gun btw? I typically use my 22 pistol to shoot the pigeons around here.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:44:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By blackandsilver:
the birds are usually hauling ass out of the trap, they have a great chance of surviving if the conditions are right, if you can hit all thirty birds consistantly you'll be one rich guy. i have met some of the nicest people at these events plus they are all loaded. most people that shoot these events are doctors, lawyers, and owners of very large buisnesses.



Thanks for the support, any suggestions for invite?

I have strong references.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:45:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pattymcn:
is there actually competitions out there for shooting pigeons? I so need to join one of those! What's a good pigeon gun btw? I typically use my 22 pistol to shoot the pigeons around here.



Google live bird gun
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:56:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:59:59 PM EDT
Wow, I didn't know this was still going on.

The closest I have heard is pheasant shoots where you pay $25 per bird or something.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 2:00:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
I've kept pigeons for pets. They make GOOD pets.

The only thing that makes them pests is their numbers.

And as for being messy, they're no more messy than any other bird of the same size, and quite
a bit less messy than equal sized parrots.


I won't be protesting at your shoot. But I won't be in favor of pointless killing of birds that aren't
doing you any material harm, either, just for you to show off your level of shooting skills.

Now if they were eating your crops, I'd say let 'em have it. But just to show your skills off?
Sorry, I can't get behind that.

CJ



CJ they're flying rats. The multiply faster than alley cats. If left completely alone they die from disease and starvation. I can gaurantee you that popping a few pigeons will do little to the world pigeon population.

I raise pigeons to work with my dogs. I actually try very hard not to hurt my birds because they're expensive and difficult to obtain. They make pointless pets and are very messy.

Link Posted: 3/7/2006 2:00:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 2:02:52 PM EDT by muddydog]
find a local HRC or AKC retriever club. "wink-wink" you have to have 2-3 shooters for every bird.

u know what the most retrieved bird is when a dog is training???
PPPPrrrrrrrrr....PPPrrrrrr...PPPrrrrrrr...PPPrrrrr
actually its the main bird i'd say 10-20 pigeons for every duck used..sometimes maybe even 50:1.

true story...

i am a pro trainer on a small scale..i usually take one dog at a time for people. i keep a small pigeon coop..very small..only a few birds at a time..unless we are fixing to have a "shoot"..

i must have a peta freak neighbor..next door, one day i came home and my coop was "damaged" and my training birds were gone.

little did they know...but most of the birds i buy are "HOMERS"....hahahahahahahahah
the ones i trap are wild and go wherever the homers go...

for one month..they roosted in my neighbors ( the one i suspect and actually very midly confronted the husband) trees and gutters. hahahhahahahahah

those birds shit over every square inch of their property...

then one day..

the lady finally confronted my wife and asked her.."HOW I HAD TRAINED THOSE BIRDS TO CRAP ON THEIR PROPERTY"...

my wife looked her straight in the eye and replied.. "we'll we did have a coop..and kept everything nice and tidy..until someone cut the lock to the gate and tore the hell out of it".

the last time i saw the flock was sunday afternoon.. we call it the "MUDDYDOG FLOCK"

its grown to about 35 birds now...i need to trap some of them..some of the males as big as a small mallard now.

pigeon shoots rock....
my dogs enjoy them more than i do...hehe
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 2:04:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
I've kept pigeons for pets. They make GOOD pets.

The only thing that makes them pests is their numbers.

And as for being messy, they're no more messy than any other bird of the same size, and quite
a bit less messy than equal sized parrots.


I won't be protesting at your shoot. But I won't be in favor of pointless killing of birds that aren't
doing you any material harm, either, just for you to show off your level of shooting skills.

Now if they were eating your crops, I'd say let 'em have it. But just to show your skills off?
Sorry, I can't get behind that.

CJ



I farm.

They eat my crops

They nest in my barns.

They nest in my equipment.

I kill hundreds a year with poison.

Alot of them are wearing bands upon their puny legs.

THAT is irresponsible pet ownership that cost me time, money, and grief.

If you don't want to shoot pigeons, stay out of the thread.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 2:04:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 2:06:37 PM EDT
you've got mail
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 2:06:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By muddydog:
find a local HRC or AKC retriever club. "wink-wink" you have to have 2-3 shooters for every bird.

u know what the most retrieved bird is when a dog is training???
PPPPrrrrrrrrr....PPPrrrrrr...PPPrrrrrrr...PPPrrrrr
actually its the main bird i'd say 10-20 pigeons for every duck used..sometimes maybe even 50:1.

true story...

i am a pro trainer on a small scale..i usually take one dog at a time for people. i keep a small pigeon coop..very small..only a few birds at a time..unless we are fixing to have a "shoot"..

i must have a peta freak neighbor..next door, one day i came home and my coop was "damaged" and my training birds were gone.

little did they know...but most of the birds i buy are "HOMERS"....hahahahahahahahah
the ones i trap are wild and go wherever the homers go...

for one month..they roosted in my neighbors ( the one i suspect and actually very midly confronted the husband) trees and gutters. hahahhahahahahah

those birds shit over every square inch of their property...

then one day..

the lady finally confronted my wife and asked her.."HOW I HAD TRAINED THOSE BIRDS TO CRAP ON THEIR PROPERTY"...

my wife looked her straight in the eye and replied.. "we'll we did have a coop..and kept everything nice and tidy..until someone cut the lock to the gate and tore the hell out of it".

the last time i saw the flock was sunday afternoon.. we call it the "MUDDYDOG FLOCK"

its grown to about 35 birds now...i need to trap some of them..some of the males as big as a small mallard now.

pigeon shoots rock....
my dogs enjoy them more than i do...hehe



I have trained my share of retrievers (3 FC's) but this has nothing to do with a Monte Carlo style pigeon ring...
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 2:10:20 PM EDT
Something between a trap and a sporting clays gun.

Kreighoffs, Kolars, Perazzis etc. Actually no one around here has a Kolar but I suspect some people use them.

32 inch barrels and tight chokes.

A few old timers swear by side-by-sides for pigeons due to fast target acquisition, but they are rare. And where are you going to buy a target quality SxS anyway...
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 2:17:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 2:44:20 PM EDT by muddydog]
i think i didn't make myself clear..
my apologies.

the clubs are called for dogs whenever there is a pigeon or pheasant shoot in our area.
some of the shoots are pretty impressive. gala events.
like you said..usually the higher level of society..

i feel cheap and dirty using a SKB at my shoots.

for those who dont know..
this type of shoot is one that is usually held at a well to do gun club or even a country club.

its a set up that is used for a competiton..the well to do show up in the lexus SUV's and break out the high dollar shotties..and look good in their foster grants, the women look pretty good usually.
money is wagered...business deals are put into play..cigars are smoked ...you know the drill.

they used to be pretty common in certain areas..still are if your in the know.

i shot my first one with a duck gun ( a winchester 1300 black shadow ) which unbeknowst to me was total fucking blasphamy...i could tell by the looks of horror on their faces..

i didnt know..what it was going to be like.. a friend of mine who works in real estate ( i had trained his dog a few years earlier) called and asked me to come along.. said i would enjoy it.

i knew i was out of my league when i guy on the line with me...asked me what kind of shotgun i was using and actually wanted to hold it...because he had never held one before.

you see aton of O/U's that cost more than alot of peoples cars there..alot of 1100 and beretta autos.
like alot of things..you can tell who the hunters are and who shoots nothing but orange clays.

Link Posted: 3/7/2006 2:18:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pattymcn:
is there actually competitions out there for shooting pigeons? I so need to join one of those! What's a good pigeon gun btw? I typically use my 22 pistol to shoot the pigeons around here.



Note to self:

1. Don't break in to Patty's house.
2. Don't challenge Patty to a shooting contest.
3. Don't piss off Patty

Link Posted: 3/7/2006 2:20:23 PM EDT
Dallas Gun Club still holds an annual pigeon shoot. You have to be a member or invited by a member.

True Story:

Back in the 30's and 40's, the pigeon population in Downtown Dallas got to a point the Dallas Gun Club was periodically invited to come into the downtown area and shoot pigeons. The city streets would be closed for a few hours early on a Saturday or Sunday morning and the club members would be allowed to eliminate as many as possible. Could you imagine what that must have been like to be able to walk the streets of Big D shooting at birds as they flew past the county court house? Those were the days.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 2:21:35 PM EDT


Pigeons got me my first real job. I love pigeons.




I'm not protesting or anything -- I'm just making chit chat. And yes, they do taste great when young and tender.


Link Posted: 3/7/2006 2:25:14 PM EDT
The Hunting club I belong to holds a pigeon shoot twice a year.

500 Live birds and well over a thousand sporting clays.

It is a lot of fun, and a lot of shooting.

My Dad and I went through 7 cases of ammo, and we both brought two shotguns.

Dad used a Beretta 1201FP and 21" Benelli M1

I used a 24" Benelli SBE and 21" Benelli M1, all Benelli's had four shot extended tubes.


The same club does a 500 Pheasant/ Sporting Clays shoot once a year.

The rest of the year they have traditional pheasant, quail, and chuckar hunts.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 2:26:24 PM EDT
i lvoe shooting pidgeons. over feedlots a few time we shot cases of ammo and killed hundreds. or shooting them off of the barn with 17hmrs is also really fun.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 2:38:41 PM EDT
About all I know about this game is to stay out of large bets with older looking fellers in bibbed overhauls that are totin' a mangy looking gun. Especially if you just beat him a couple of times.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 2:42:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 2:48:59 PM EDT by bubba99]

Originally Posted By crazyquik:
Something between a trap and a sporting clays gun.

Kreighoffs, Kolars, Perazzis etc. Actually no one around here has a Kolar but I suspect some people use them.

32 inch barrels and tight chokes.

A few old timers swear by side-by-sides for pigeons due to fast target acquisition, but they are rare. And where are you going to buy a target quality SxS anyway...



I still prefer a side by side due to total reliability. I have seen a lot of o/u with broken coils.
Any of the London or Birminham makers will still accept orders for bespoken live bird guns. I shoot a Westley Richards droplock or a Boss hammergun. Bird guns are neat.

Watched a guy bet and lose a $150,000 Fabri once....I would have killed to have been in that race.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 2:44:31 PM EDT
So they are not eatable,?...Tired of bologna...
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 2:47:49 PM EDT
no they are very good eating. taste just like a quail or dove.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 2:57:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 2:59:10 PM EDT by muddydog]
i'm tempted to call out BS...in this..but something isnt right...

1- he talks about "proper shotguns"...
2- supposedly he farms...
3- he has trained field champ retrievers...

lets talk facts...

if he had trained retrievers (especially F.C.'s thats why we get called to help out)...
he would know..where and when these things are held. pure and simple.
2- i have never.....neverrrrrrrrrrr... heard a farmer talk of "proper guns"...he talks big...
with his fancy shootin irons..

i grew up on a farm and have been surrounded by farmers in every facet of my life..and never heard "high-talk" from any of them..

an alias of bubba................MMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm



Link Posted: 3/7/2006 2:59:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARTIE:
So they are not eatable,?...Tired of bologna...



If you cook em' up you probably won't catch anything they're carrying...like most animals...but I'd still rather have the bologna.

We buy them from a guy that traps the vermin downtown to use for training our pointers. The guy who traps them makes pretty good money. Gets paid by the city to trap and gets paid per bird when we buy them. Just tuck their head under their wing, shake em around to put them to sleep and lay them down in a bush. Just carry a bottle of hand sanitizer...damn nasty vermin.

Link Posted: 3/7/2006 3:33:08 PM EDT
Live bird shooting and box bird shoots have a rich and storied past, not only in this country but in Europe, Mexico and South America as well.

One form of live bird shooting is/was a gala event where men who threw the birds earned legendary reputations and were admired by many. They would turn their back on the shooter who stood only a few feet away and pluck certain flight feathers which affected the bird's flight when they were tossed into the air. The shooter was challenged and heavy, numerous bets were placed on shooter/thrower by those in attendance who were usually dining in boxes reminescent of those at sporting events held these days.

In Las Vegas, the shooter puts a chip in an electronically controlled box in front of his shooting station, which controls which one of 5 or seven boxes containing a pigeon is opened, releasing a bird. The shooter has to drop the bird within a 90 foot (IIRC) fence/boundary, or it ruled "lost". Solid gold belt buckles, Perazzis and a lot of cash were standard prizes.Extra full/full were the standard chokes and you always shot twice at the same bird to be sure.

The "animals are more important than people" crowd has pretty much ruined most of these sports.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 4:15:29 PM EDT
always wanted to get into pigeon shooting, kill them as pests anyways, might as well try to earn soem money doing it


Besides which, I hate the damn things, almost as bad as Gophers, groundhogs, and Coyotes (coy dogs lumped in with them as well)
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 6:38:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 6:53:11 PM EDT by bubba99]

Originally Posted By muddydog:
i'm tempted to call out BS...in this..but something isnt right...

1- he talks about "proper shotguns"...
2- supposedly he farms...
3- he has trained field champ retrievers...

lets talk facts...

if he had trained retrievers (especially F.C.'s thats why we get called to help out)...
he would know..where and when these things are held. pure and simple.
2- i have never.....neverrrrrrrrrrr... heard a farmer talk of "proper guns"...he talks big...
with his fancy shootin irons..

i grew up on a farm and have been surrounded by farmers in every facet of my life..and never heard "high-talk" from any of them..

an alias of bubba................MMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm






1. As I Said in the first post, It has been along time since I have been in the ring. But I haver never seen a retriever in a bird ring. I am totally confused as to what a retriever could do to help out? If a dog attempted to move a bird before it were scored, he would be shot on the spot along with his handler. Please explain how you help.

2.I farm and enjoy expensive shotguns. What is your problem with that? My farm holdings may be a wee bit larger than what you were raised on.

This is not BS but an honest attempt to find source of competitve bird shooting.

I simply can not fathom a UKC Hunt test mutt "helping" at a pigeon race. Do you mean inside of the ring? LOL...I would love to see any pigeon race that invites a retriever club to help. You must be refering to something else. Every race I have shot was extremely private affair. Nobody entered without a ton of scrutiny.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 5:11:28 AM EDT
perhaps the shoots are bileld as a retreiver gathering? to keep the eyes of the PETArds away from it?
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 5:25:38 AM EDT
Sounds like it would be a lot of fun. And we sure need to get rid of pigeons around here. There is a sporting clay range south of here, I will ask there.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 5:31:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bubba99:
Many years ago, in a land far away, I was invited to, attended and participated in several live pigeon shoots. I have lost contact with my host.




Just a question here.
Is there dead pigeon shoots?
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 5:51:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By bubba99:
Many years ago, in a land far away, I was invited to, attended and participated in several live pigeon shoots. I have lost contact with my host.




Just a question here.
Is there dead pigeon shoots?



I think the term may have originated as "live birds versus Clay birds."
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 6:00:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911lover:
Live bird shooting and box bird shoots have a rich and storied past, not only in this country but in Europe, Mexico and South America as well.

One form of live bird shooting is/was a gala event where men who threw the birds earned legendary reputations and were admired by many. They would turn their back on the shooter who stood only a few feet away and pluck certain flight feathers which affected the bird's flight when they were tossed into the air. The shooter was challenged and heavy, numerous bets were placed on shooter/thrower by those in attendance who were usually dining in boxes reminescent of those at sporting events held these days.

In Las Vegas, the shooter puts a chip in an electronically controlled box in front of his shooting station, which controls which one of 5 or seven boxes containing a pigeon is opened, releasing a bird. The shooter has to drop the bird within a 90 foot (IIRC) fence/boundary, or it ruled "lost". Solid gold belt buckles, Perazzis and a lot of cash were standard prizes.Extra full/full were the standard chokes and you always shot twice at the same bird to be sure.

The "animals are more important than people" crowd has pretty much ruined most of these sports.



I still have a few of the old chips. They have been replaced by computer controlled release traps, which seem to keep things alittle more fair. Hellice is going to replace pigeon shooting, as we are sharing tons of tech with them. Hellice just doesn't pay the bills. A national event in Vegas recently paid a buckle and $2500. I have shot side bets for more money on one bird. I wonder if side bets are encouraged in the Hellice matches.

Without the contreversy, and open attendance, Hellice has driven down the prices and erased alot of the elitism. It is a great sport but it is not the same thing, physically nor financially.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 10:00:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 6:10:03 AM EDT by 1911lover]


I still have a few of the old chips. They have been replaced by computer controlled release traps, which seem to keep things alittle more fair. Hellice is going to replace pigeon shooting, as we are sharing tons of tech with them. Hellice just doesn't pay the bills. A national event in Vegas recently paid a buckle and $2500. I have shot side bets for more money on one bird. I wonder if side bets are encouraged in the Hellice matches.

Without the contreversy, and open attendance, Hellice has driven down the prices and erased alot of the elitism. It is a great sport but it is not the same thing, physically nor financially.




An era, sadly gone by for the most part....especially the "ring" with renowned bird throwers. I fear this sport is yet another activity that was on my "to do list" that I will never be able to experience. But then that list has pretty much ceased to exist anyway. Oh well. I wonder if anyone has ever written much about this sport. I can vaguely remember reading about the 'Vegas shoots some years back, with pictures of the shooters, many of whom were wearing cowboy hats, lg. buckles and toting nice long barreled over/unders.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 10:14:49 AM EDT
I have been known to in the past to go to a farmers place and reduce the pigeon population.
They are a serious problem with the diseases and infections they can cause.
We usually use a kid in the barn with a bb gun to scare them out and shoot them on the fly. It's pure fast wing shooting. While I know some people who eat them I don't but they make good fertilizer for the roses.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 2:08:07 PM EDT
To everyone who sent IM and email, THANKS! I got a few connections and an invite for a shoot in April. Thanks the the numbers and info. The hive mind strikes again.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 2:55:55 PM EDT
W. T. F?


Did someone's "Easy" button tear a whole in the universe opening an interdimensional portal and causing me to stumble into an alternate reality?
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