Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
Posted: 4/16/2006 9:19:33 PM EST
I am looking for the best way to put some money away for a while. say, a year or less.

I guess being able to access the money would be nice, but then again, having it in a CD keeps me from spending it.

what would ARFCOM suggest?

who here uses online type banks? you know, the ones without a store front. does anyone run a checking account out of something like this? savings?

how do arfcommer's do their banking; savings and checking?

stocks? any hot stocks right now?

lets talk money
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 9:26:18 PM EST
There are a few online savings accounts that are paying around 4%. ING and HSBC.

Hot stocks NOW are easy. Ethanol, sugar, etc.

Future hot stocks is where it gets tricky and where you want to be.

Get in early and beat the herd, ride the wave, sell.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 9:28:03 PM EST
Open a brokerage account from an online investment house. (Fidelity, ScottTrade, Vanguard, etc.)

You can then shop for mutuals and CDs that fit your investment goals. You can buy CDs from banks and financial institutions located anywhere in the country via your online investment accounts.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 9:36:06 PM EST
Just a year?!

That's not saving man... You gotta put away money away for more than that to see the real returns... I'd say, just put it into a saving's account that's near our inflation rate. Does anyone know what it is these days? 3-4%? Savings afford you the security of little risk. If you have $10,000 or more, you could put into the stock market, but unless you know somebody who knows somebody, or know a little finance put your money into a index fund. Those "special" funds are basically a scam, where people make money out of gambling, oops, i meant managing your money.

Link Posted: 4/16/2006 9:38:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:
Just a year?!

That's not saving man... You gotta put away money away for more than that to see the real returns... I'd say, just put it into a saving's account that's near our inflation rate. Does anyone know what it is these days? 3-4%? Savings afford you the security of little risk. If you have $10,000 or more, you could put into the stock market, but unless you know somebody who knows somebody, or know a little finance put your money into a index fund. Those "special" funds are basically a scam, where people make money out of gambling, oops, i meant managing your money.




long term is already taken care of.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 5:15:33 AM EST
I use ING, they seem to work pretty well so far.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 5:19:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2006 5:22:02 AM EST by dolanp]
Use GMAC online for CDs, they have pretty high rates. For regular savings, ING Direct is a good option at 4%. Emigrant Direct is higher now but I personally don't like them as much. If you want ING Direct IM me and I'll send you a link where you can get a $25 signup bonus.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 5:19:57 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 5:21:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By mtechgunman:

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:
Just a year?!

That's not saving man... You gotta put away money away for more than that to see the real returns... I'd say, just put it into a saving's account that's near our inflation rate. Does anyone know what it is these days? 3-4%? Savings afford you the security of little risk. If you have $10,000 or more, you could put into the stock market, but unless you know somebody who knows somebody, or know a little finance put your money into a index fund. Those "special" funds are basically a scam, where people make money out of gambling, oops, i meant managing your money.




long term is already taken care of.



A student in Montana? We're suppose to believe that?

You will lose money in a savings account because the real inflation is greater than the advertised inflation rate (Federal government published, Federal Reserve, etc.). Your best bet is to get yourself into a Roth IRA at your age, but it is really hard to convince students of that.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 5:24:24 AM EST
CD's barely beat inflation....and they can be taxed on top of that
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 5:30:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2006 5:33:39 AM EST by NewbHunter]
Depending on who you talk to the inflation rate is anywhere from 3-7%. The gov. of course will have you believe it's more around 3% through their selective and tricky methods of computing inflation. Real inflation, that is when you don't throw out all kinds of valid data to artificially supress the number, is probably closer to 7%.

So, if you're looking for short term savings, you better find something that pays at least 7% to retain your buying power.

Personally, I invested some money in silver about 2 months ago. In that short time (based off current SPOT and what I paid for my silver) its value has risen almost 28%. As I type this it is sitting at $13.21, which is up from $12.81 that it closed at over the weekend. Many people are predicting it to rise into the lower 20's by the end of the year. So, if you are looking for short term to make some money IMHO I'd put it into silver.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 5:43:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By dolanp:
Use GMAC online for CDs, they have pretty high rates. For regular savings, ING Direct is a good option at 4%. Emigrant Direct is higher now but I personally don't like them as much. If you want ING Direct IM me and I'll send you a link where you can get a $25 signup bonus.



I opened an account with ING last month and I got the $25 sign-up bonus.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 5:45:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2006 5:46:37 AM EST by pdg45acp]
GMAC Demand notes are paying 6%.. You can write checks on it anytime...
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 5:58:54 AM EST
Electronic Series I Savings Bonds. The interest earned does not get taxed until you reimburse them. The rates are slated to go up against 5/1/06, making them competitive with long term CDs and money market accounts.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 6:32:54 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:11:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2006 7:12:19 AM EST by NewbHunter]

Originally Posted By lordtrader:

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:
Depending on who you talk to the inflation rate is anywhere from 3-7%. The gov. of course will have you believe it's more around 3% through their selective and tricky methods of computing inflation. Real inflation, that is when you don't throw out all kinds of valid data to artificially supress the number, is probably closer to 7%.




HUH!!!! Where in the world do get this??? What exactly are these valid data you speak of that gets thrown out to make "real" inflation?? Please be specific.



I don't have time to dig up a bunch of articles for you right now, today is kind of busy at work, but here is a start:

www.free-market.net/towards-liberty/inflation-gov-lies.html

I've quoted a specific section of the article below, but there is some other good info in there as well.


How the official inflation rate
is manipulated

There are in fact many ways in which the government manipulates economic information to keep the CPI artificially low:

1. Geometric Weighing: Elimination of good and services that are going up rapidly from the CPI. Goods and services that are increasing most rapidly – such as housing and energy costs – are given a lower weight in calculating the CPI, or even eliminated from it entirely!

The public rational for this blatant sleigh-of-hand is that such goods and services are "too volatile" to be included or that increases are "temporary" and atypical. However, with such manipulation, the CPI ceases to have any connection to reality.

Depending upon how "volatile" goods are geometrically manipulated, the official inflation rate can become any figure the government wants it to be, with little connection to reality.

2. Hedonic Adjustment: Explaining away price increases as quality improvements. For instance, if the price of a computer goes up by $100 this price increase will not be included in the CPI if (as is usually the case) there is also some improvement in the capabilities of the computer.

Using this type of fake adjustment, it's clear that cars have not "really" increased in price at all from the days when Henry Ford sold a Model T for $300.

3. Ignoring quality decreases. If we need to adjust the inflation rate for quality increases, don't we also need to adjust it for quality decreases?

The post office provides a good example. Sixty years ago, first-class postage was just three cents. But back then, the post office made four deliveries each day, two regular and two special.

Also, sixty years ago, gas stations had attendants who pumped your gas for you, checked your oil, and cleaned your car windshield at no additional charge. And movie theaters had ushers who took you to your seats. I won't even comment on what has happened to service at U.S. airports since 9/11.

Not factoring in such quality decreases – which can be dramatic even in a short period of time – also greatly understates inflation.

4. Assuming consumers will simply turn to less-expensive alternatives. Thus if the price of a steak dinner at a restaurant goes from $19.95 to $24.95, the Department of Commerce simply assumes diners will go to a less expensive restaurant, keeping their meal costs the same.

Like other CPI adjustments, this assumption has little to do with reality and is in the end simply an excuse for manipulating official inflation figures.

5. Exclusion of goods and services whose price is reduced by government subsidies. For instance, the actual cost of a subway ride in New York City is anywhere from $3.50 to $6.00, but riders only pay $1.25. The rest is subsidized by taxes.

But since only the price of a subway ride (and not its actual cost) appears in official price reports, the CPI again appears much lower than it actually is.

Thousands of goods and services in the U.S. are now subsidized by government, including airport security, public schools, medical care, housing for the poor, the interstate highway system, and much of what you eat.

Considering the above list, 7% may be much too low an estimate for the present, real U.S. inflation rate.



Also try doing some google searches on "real inflation" or "hedonics".

I'm not an economic expert, but if what these articles say is true, and the gov. has changed the way in which they calculate inflation over the years like the articles claim, then inflation is much worse then the numbers the fed gives out.

Seems to make sense to me, but then I'm just an average joe. I'm sure the economic experts on the forum will be along shortly to try and discredit me and tell me to wrap my tinfoil tighter.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:17:43 AM EST
ing direct orange savings account at 4%
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:35:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2006 7:55:40 AM EST by lordtrader]
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:47:52 AM EST
I have a 4.5% savings account at emigrantdirect.com and some CDs at Etrade banking. I think the 1 year are around 5%.



Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:53:40 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 8:16:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2006 8:26:22 AM EST by NewbHunter]
I agree that discounting large swings is a good thing, especially in volitile markets as the prices may change rapidly.

But, let me use gas prices as an example. They have risen dramatically over the last year or two and have not gone back down. This has in turn caused many other things to increase in price to compensate for increased energy prices. Unfortunately I don't see this as a short term trend where things will soon go back to "normal". Normal being gas costing around $1.50 a gallon like it was a few years ago, or say even $1.64, which is where it would be at a constant 3% inflation rate for three years. In fact, gas is probably going to continue to rise in price quite rapidly.

I also don't see the rise in oil price as being only indicitave of geopolitical tension. I wrote this in another thread, but I will add it here too. At SHOT show I talked to a number of Chinese factory owners. They all told me that China is developing at an unprecidented rate. Because of that they are eating up natural resources as fast as they can. Things like oil, copper, aluminum, iron, etc, are in extremely high demand and the demand is only continuing to rise. This would also account for the rise in prices of things like ammunition that I'm sure everyone on this site has been noticing over the last couple of years.


Originally Posted By lordtrader:
Newb Hunter, CPI does NOT repeat NOT throw out volitile numbers. Analyst and economist basically just discounts large swings. In the example given of computers, we know from history that most, not all, but most people will change to a new PC every 2-3yrs. Given that information, 3yrs from now, you may see a rise in PC sales that is not indicative of the economy. Same with food and energy prices. Currently we are seeing a spike in energy prices due to geo political climate. This cause fear in the market and cause prices to spike.



While it may be true that people buy new computers every 2-3 years, it sounds to me like you are claiming that will cause a computer buying spike every 2-3 years and so that is discounted? If I am reading you wrong, please correct me, but if that is what you are saying then it assumes that everyone buys their computers at the same time, which is obviously not the case.

If the CPI is adjusted such that they don't take into account the increased cost of goods, like computers, because they have also increased in features or capability, then it seems to me that is not a very honest way of reporting inflation. It still costs more money than it did before to "stay current" so to speak.



So the Core CPI numbers were instituted to have a better indication of inflation. If you have a spike in prices, you need to figure out wether that is sustained or wether there are extraordinary outside circumstance that is causing it. Sustained price increase is what inflation is all about. Spikes can be put simply as flukes and not an indication of sustained inflationary indicator.



I don't disagree with what you are saying and I also understand that inflation is about sustained price increases. However, all I have to do is look at the price at the pump and the price of my groceries, etc and how high they have risen over the last few years to see that a 2% inflation rate is just not possible. It has to be higher than that as I am spending much more money on the same things I bought two years ago.



So economist and analyst basically looks at 2 figures, CPI month of month and year over year. As well as CPI Core Month over Month, and year over year. Taking into account other circumstances that cause pricing increase and make a determination wether or not inflation is out of whack. Inflation is needed to grow the economy. Hyper-inflations is bad for the economy.



I agree that hyperinflation is bad. Personally I think we are on the verge of it (no more M3 reports from the fed? Hmmm...). I don't agree that inflation is necessary to grow the economy, except for the fact that the US dollar is a fiat currency.



If we took into account all spike and dips, we would have 10% inflation one day and 2% inflation the next day. Even though the price of your loaf of bread remain @ a constant $2.00 and your movie ticket remain @ $7.00.



Agreed, but when the price of oil jumps and stays high, like it has been doing the last two years, things like bread and movie tickets also rise in price accordingly. For reasons I've already stated I don't believe that this is just a temporary spike in oil prices either.



The CPI has many components. Some far to volitile than others. OPEC can say boo!!, and the whole oil market can jump. Is that indicative of our ENTIRE economy? We could have a bad drought and the price of cabbage could go up, does that dictate inflation?



To both questions - No, of course not, but I don't think that is the case of the current world situation.

ETA: Silver is sitting at $13.34 as I type this. An increase of $0.45, or about 3.5%, since last Thursday. I still think it's cheap and a good investment.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 9:09:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2006 9:22:23 AM EST by lordtrader]
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 9:31:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2006 9:32:35 AM EST by NewbHunter]

Originally Posted By lordtrader:
OK maybe the computer thing was a bad example. I was just using that to follow the logic of the article you posted.

Your point regarding prices of your grocery going up, although a valid point, lets take into account that CPI is a comprised of many components all of it is shown at a weighted average when published. The website www.bls.gov/cpi will have a breakdown of what each individual percentages are.

With regards to gas prices: There is no such thing as normal. There is such a thing as "something we are used to paying" Most of the oil price increase is due to geo political and weather related fears. It is not based on supply outweighing demand. OPEC has increased production, yet oil futures spike up everytime there is news about Iran, Venezuela, Nigeria or any other oil related countries. Regardless, spikes in oil is accounted for in CPI just not in the CORE CPI.

Well I think we've officially hijacked this dudes thread



Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on why oil is going up in price then. I think that some of the increase is certianly due to geo political and weather related fears (as has always been the case), but I also believe that a lot of it has to do with China and other developing countries sucking up more and more oil, among some other factors.

And just so I'm not totally hijacking...I still think silver is a good investment for a year or less.

$13.40 now.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 9:42:16 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 10:34:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By stator:

Originally Posted By mtechgunman:

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:
Just a year?!

That's not saving man... You gotta put away money away for more than that to see the real returns... I'd say, just put it into a saving's account that's near our inflation rate. Does anyone know what it is these days? 3-4%? Savings afford you the security of little risk. If you have $10,000 or more, you could put into the stock market, but unless you know somebody who knows somebody, or know a little finance put your money into a index fund. Those "special" funds are basically a scam, where people make money out of gambling, oops, i meant managing your money.




long term is already taken care of.



A student in Montana? We're suppose to believe that?

You will lose money in a savings account because the real inflation is greater than the advertised inflation rate (Federal government published, Federal Reserve, etc.). Your best bet is to get yourself into a Roth IRA at your age, but it is really hard to convince students of that.



I don't need convincing, 2005 i put in the max into my ROTH IRA. this year will be the same thing.

i plan on getting married in a little over a year, and basically, i am trying to put away now, even if i don't see alot of growth, so that i don't get myself into a bind when i am married. i think i am going to use this time to try different things. some of my money will go into CD's but i don't want all of it in those.

i just need to put some away before i go out and buy a bunch of shit.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 10:38:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By lordtrader:



Well I think we've officially hijacked this dudes thread



nah, please keep going. i am learning alot of things about money, and this is what this thread was supposed to be about.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 10:47:37 AM EST
confused, how do i purchase silver? i.e. stock market? ticker symbol?
best way to buy. i use schwab right now. can i use them to purchase it? i talked with my father, and he did something similar, about a year ago, but he bought a couple of bags worth of silver quarters.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 11:01:07 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 11:15:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2006 11:16:46 AM EST by NewbHunter]
I bought mine from www.the-moneychanger.com

Seemed like a very reputable place and he had good prices. I bought junk silver quarters for only $0.04 above SPOT ($9.54 at the time). I did a wire transfer and had the silver in 3 days.

There is also a new silver ETF that looks like it will be approved and will open soon. This will allow you to easily own silver without actually having it on hand. If it gets approved the ETF will be required to buy, and have physically on hand, a huge amount of silver. I can't remember the exact number off the top of my head. Obviously this will cause the price to spike.

In the very short term some suspect that much of the current run up of silver is from people speculating on this spike, and that after the initial spike there will be lots of profit takers who will cash out. If you are looking at very short term, you may want to keep an eye on this and cash out yourself, however for med-long term I believe that a number of factors will cause it to quickly recover from that sell off (if it even happens) and it will continue to increase in price.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 11:20:27 AM EST
I only use banks that have locations.

I Diversify.

401k
Employee Stock Purchase Plan
Seperate brokerage account
Metals
Cash
Savings AccountS


Link Posted: 4/17/2006 11:29:59 AM EST
Oh, and BTW. If you're thinking about getting silver, the sooner you buy, the better. Did I say earlier today that it was at $13.40? $13.60 now...I mean $13.66...aw heck, I almost can't even keep up with it as I type.
Top Top