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Posted: 9/24/2023 2:58:47 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: True for the place but not time. It’s a not on the X Y plane. It’s not tied directly to either value. There are two variables. Time and altitude. This is by definition two-dimensional space. If they intersection, then by definition the tuple {T1,A1} must be exactly equal to {T2,A2}. Again, that's what it means when lines intersect. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 2:58:55 PM EST
[#2]
It can't be the same time because it is 24 hours later. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:00:38 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Likely impossible. Though there is a minuscule possibility. An equal intersection at the exact millisecond. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:02:16 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're picking a specific spot and seeing if they will meet there. That's not the right way to look at it. Where the spot is and when the meeting happens is not relevant. Just that they are required to pass each other at some point. Wherever they pass each other is by definition the same place at the same time. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No. The instantaneous velocity will be different all along the path. Although the average might be the same and the length of trip may be the same there is no guarantee that a particular spot in the path has corresponding "time of arrival". In fact, I would argue that there is an infantesimally small chance that they would match given the day long trip length, distance walked, terrain variation, etc. You're picking a specific spot and seeing if they will meet there. That's not the right way to look at it. Where the spot is and when the meeting happens is not relevant. Just that they are required to pass each other at some point. Wherever they pass each other is by definition the same place at the same time. Exactly. No matter where you go, there you are. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:02:20 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Again same bet at I gave to low country, 1 pmag if you can prove it mathematically. Not everyone agrees, you need to prove it by math. And you cant plan a speed for day two, day one is now set in time for ever. Thats the problem with the two monks way of solving it, its variable until they meet. One monk its not on day one place and time is locked. He cant be in the same place and time with variable average speed on day two except in the one math problem where we solve for speed on day two and distance on day one. Yes I will admit by sheer luck he walks the perfect speed on day two than it works. But it is not certain. You understand it yet? Go google “monk on a mountain riddle” and literally any result will explain it. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:02:31 PM EST
[#6]
If f(x) is a continuous function on [a,b],
for every d between f(a) and f(b), there exists a c between a and b so that f(c)=d Kind of obvious.  |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:04:28 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are two variables. Time and altitude. This is by definition two-dimensional space. If they intersection, then by definition the tuple {T1,A1} must be exactly equal to {T2,A2}. Again, that's what it means when lines intersect. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: True for the place but not time. It’s a not on the X Y plane. It’s not tied directly to either value. There are two variables. Time and altitude. This is by definition two-dimensional space. If they intersection, then by definition the tuple {T1,A1} must be exactly equal to {T2,A2}. Again, that's what it means when lines intersect. True, but technically he may have a point. We aren't taking into consideration the time dilation that occurs when changing altitude due to getting slightly further from the Earth's gravitational pull. This invalidates all of our graphs and classical reasoning. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:13:36 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You don't need to use math. Imagine it's a graph. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/267086/graph_png-2964958.JPG Red is the ascending monk. He starts at the beginning of the day at the bottom of the mountain and ends at the end of the day at the top of the mountain. Green is the descending monk. He starts at the beginning of the day at the top of the mountain and ends at the end of the day at the bottom of the mountain. Those are the known constraints. Given those, it is NOT POSSIBLE to draw lines of ANY slope, changing, constant, negative, positive, or otherwise, such that they don't intersect at at least one point. This is among the easiest problems and I am dumbfounded how people can't. yes its graph and yours has a problem. The monks starting times are opposite. The below chart I just drew, I had both trips up average the same time over all but variable speeds at different points. You can see they cross, but at different times. The monk on the way up reached the point at about 220 pm and on the way down at about 140 pm. Same place different times.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:13:53 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The middle light bulb, because it's warm. He's right, you know... |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:13:59 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol what a welcher. Look at the graph that was just posted. look at the one I just posted |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:14:57 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I will take that bet. I believe I can prove it mathematically. Is it open to me? Edit: it has already been shown in graph form. see my graph his has an error, they are starting at different points. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:15:36 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: look at the one I just posted Keep working at it. Let me know when you get it and I’ll send you my address. This is a well known riddle and the answer is not in doubt. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:16:04 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not impossible nor improbable. It's actually 100% certain. If departure and arrival times are the same on both days, then it's impossible for there to not be a point in time where he's at the same exact spot on both days. look at my chart. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:17:56 PM EST
[#14]
This thread sucks...
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:19:49 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: yes its graph and yours has a problem. The monks starting times are opposite. The below chart I just drew, I had both trips up average the same time over all but variable speeds at different points. You can see they cross, but at different times. The monk on the way up reached the point at about 220 pm and on the way down at about 140 pm. Same place different times. Attached FileQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You don't need to use math. Imagine it's a graph. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/267086/graph_png-2964958.JPG Red is the ascending monk. He starts at the beginning of the day at the bottom of the mountain and ends at the end of the day at the top of the mountain. Green is the descending monk. He starts at the beginning of the day at the top of the mountain and ends at the end of the day at the bottom of the mountain. Those are the known constraints. Given those, it is NOT POSSIBLE to draw lines of ANY slope, changing, constant, negative, positive, or otherwise, such that they don't intersect at at least one point. This is among the easiest problems and I am dumbfounded how people can't. yes its graph and yours has a problem. The monks starting times are opposite. The below chart I just drew, I had both trips up average the same time over all but variable speeds at different points. You can see they cross, but at different times. The monk on the way up reached the point at about 220 pm and on the way down at about 140 pm. Same place different times. Attached FileOk, this changes things. I didn't know the monk received time travel powers at the temple was able to walk down the mountain backwards in time. So if he starts at 8pm then arrives at the bottom at 8am in the morning on the same day, then yeah you're right. Riddle solved. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:19:53 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Keep working at it. Let me know when you get it and I’ll send you my address. This is a well known riddle and the answer is not in doubt. You still have not shown it by math. my chart shows it by math. Tell me what you want me to change on the chart and I will even better I will redraw it with out any time distance line going up. I will then draw it with just the time going up, but I wont post it, you can draw any line for time/speed going down and I will over lay it and we will see if it matches for time. That way we both remove any possibility of trying to fix it. ( aka cheat ) |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:21:41 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: yes its graph and yours has a problem. The monks starting times are opposite. The below chart I just drew, I had both trips up average the same time over all but variable speeds at different points. You can see they cross, but at different times. The monk on the way up reached the point at about 220 pm and on the way down at about 140 pm. Same place different times. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/497353/monk_jpg-2965006.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You don't need to use math. Imagine it's a graph. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/267086/graph_png-2964958.JPG Red is the ascending monk. He starts at the beginning of the day at the bottom of the mountain and ends at the end of the day at the top of the mountain. Green is the descending monk. He starts at the beginning of the day at the top of the mountain and ends at the end of the day at the bottom of the mountain. Those are the known constraints. Given those, it is NOT POSSIBLE to draw lines of ANY slope, changing, constant, negative, positive, or otherwise, such that they don't intersect at at least one point. This is among the easiest problems and I am dumbfounded how people can't. yes its graph and yours has a problem. The monks starting times are opposite. The below chart I just drew, I had both trips up average the same time over all but variable speeds at different points. You can see they cross, but at different times. The monk on the way up reached the point at about 220 pm and on the way down at about 140 pm. Same place different times. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/497353/monk_jpg-2965006.JPG then your point is in the wrong place |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:22:45 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You still have not shown it by math. my chart shows it by math. Tell me what you want me to change on the chart and I will even better I will redraw it with out any time distance line going up. I will then draw it with just the time going up, but I wont post it, you can draw any line for time/speed going down and I will over lay it and we will see if it matches for time. That way we both remove any possibility of trying to fix it. ( aka cheat ) The answer has been posted a few times already. It’s up to you to understand it. One trip down the mountain, one trip up the mountain. Both start at 8am. They will meet at some point on their journeys. Same place, same time. It is a mathematical certainty. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:27:02 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: yes its graph and yours has a problem. The monks starting times are opposite. The below chart I just drew, I had both trips up average the same time over all but variable speeds at different points. You can see they cross, but at different times. The monk on the way up reached the point at about 220 pm and on the way down at about 140 pm. Same place different times. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/497353/monk_jpg-2965006.JPG This is so incomprehensibly stupid I'm not sure where to begin. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:28:08 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only way it would be possible is if he hit the midway point at 2pm for both the ascent and descent, assuming his travel speed is the same for both trips Monks also have morning, mid day, and evening prayer, so that will probably be tied in with the answer. Not going to consider the possibility of transendance because it’s pure fiction |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:29:56 PM EST
[#21]
Here's the actual math for anyone interested.
Let A = the monk's path on day 1 Let B = the monk's path on day 2 C = the speed of light T = time of day D = dumbass A - B = sqrt(C)/T -1 Everything cancels out and you're left with: D = U |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:30:06 PM EST
[#22]
 Yes ... he's in the same place at different times. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:30:25 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is so incomprehensibly stupid I'm not sure where to begin. Think he’ll send me the pmag he wagered? |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:30:51 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is so incomprehensibly stupid I'm not sure where to begin. Ok so I extend the bet to you. I have a chart drawn with no lines, and I then drew the chart with the line going up for day one. I did not not change the time stamp from my scanner. You draw the line for him coming down and post it. I will then over lay it with yours and lets see if they are the same point at the same time. edit the scanner date time stamp is to show i already drew the line so totally random but average the same time bottom to top and top to bottom.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:31:24 PM EST
[#25]
The "two" monks are not meeting in the middle. Where they "meet" is almost definitely not in the middle, but they will "meet" at some place on the trail. Since they start from opposite ends they will meet at the same time. Where they meet is the true variable, not when.
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:31:29 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Think he’ll send me the pmag he wagered? To the correct address? Based on what I've seen here, I'm not sure that's possible. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:32:51 PM EST
[#27]
Practically speaking no.
Assuming the monk had some supernatural power to travel at a consistent speed both uphill and downhill he would be at the halfway point at 2pm. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:34:40 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok so I extend the bet to you. I have a chart drawn with no lines, and I then drew the chart with the line going up for day one. I did not not change the time stamp from my scanner. You draw the line for him coming down and post it. I will then over lay it with yours and lets see if they are the same point at the same time. edit the scanner date time stamp is to show i already drew the line so totally random but average the same time bottom to top and top to bottom. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/497353/Scan2023-09-24_162604_chart_blank_jpg-2965026.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok so I extend the bet to you. I have a chart drawn with no lines, and I then drew the chart with the line going up for day one. I did not not change the time stamp from my scanner. You draw the line for him coming down and post it. I will then over lay it with yours and lets see if they are the same point at the same time. edit the scanner date time stamp is to show i already drew the line so totally random but average the same time bottom to top and top to bottom. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/497353/Scan2023-09-24_162604_chart_blank_jpg-2965026.JPG Low country I will up the bet to 10 pmags if you do the above and the time and place meet. Do you accept? @Low_country Quoted: Think he’ll send me the pmag he wagered? |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:34:51 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, guaranteed. I was not so sure, thinking he could maybe walk different areas at different rates and avoid being in the same part of the path at the same time of day, but it all made sense when someone pointed this out: Imagine he’s walking down on the second day, and there is some kind of holographic recording of his previous day’s trip up being replayed at the same time. At some point on the way down, he will pass the recording going up. That’s the point where he’s at the same place at the same time. No matter what speeds or changes in speed he makes in either direction, he can’t avoid passing by the replay. That’s the time and place. Hmm |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:35:07 PM EST
[#30]
The beginning and end of the path? He hit the same trail at 8AM, he hit the ending at 8PM?
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:35:32 PM EST
[#31]
@StaccatoC2
I have a new riddle for you. On day 1 a sherpa is remotely tracking the monk's path up the mountain, because the monk has a satellite internet connected gps relaying his real time coordinates. The sherpa is logging the monk's exact movements. On day 2, the sherpa retraces the monk's path up the mountain, meticulously repeating every single step in the same time as the monk on day 1. Also on day 2, the monk is coming back down the mountain path. Is it possible for them not to cross paths at the same time? How does this work? Please explain. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:38:44 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok so I extend the bet to you. I have a chart drawn with no lines, and I then drew the chart with the line going up for day one. I did not not change the time stamp from my scanner. You draw the line for him coming down and post it. I will then over lay it with yours and lets see if they are the same point at the same time. edit the scanner date time stamp is to show i already drew the line so totally random but average the same time bottom to top and top to bottom. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/497353/Scan2023-09-24_162604_chart_blank_jpg-2965026.JPG Why are they in two different coordinate systems? Is that how it works in your world? Go back to your earlier example. If the slower ascending monk made it to altitude X at 2:20 PM and the faster descending monk made it to altitude X at 1:40 PM, then by definition the ascending monk was at some altitude Y=X at 1:40. The descending monk is at altitude X. Given their travel in opposite directions, they will cross each other's path between 1:40 and 2:20. All you've done is chosen an arbitrary point in distance and said "see, it's not the same time," which is not at all the problem statement. Your graphs are not in the same coordinate system so it's irrelevant. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:38:51 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @StaccatoC2 I have a new riddle for you. On day 1 a sherpa is tracking the monk's path up the mountain, because the monk has a satellite internet connected gps relaying his real time coordinates. The sherpa is logging the monk's exact movements. On day 2, the sherpa retraces the monk's path up the mountain, meticulously repeating every single step in the same time as the monk on day 1. Also on day 2, the monk is coming back down the mountain path. Is it possible for them not to cross paths at the same time? How does this work? Please explain. My chart already shows it, the line going up is the gps track and speed then line coming down is day two. They dont meet at the same point and time. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:39:44 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok so I extend the bet to you. I have a chart drawn with no lines, and I then drew the chart with the line going up for day one. I did not not change the time stamp from my scanner. You draw the line for him coming down and post it. I will then over lay it with yours and lets see if they are the same point at the same time. edit the scanner date time stamp is to show i already drew the line so totally random but average the same time bottom to top and top to bottom. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/497353/Scan2023-09-24_162604_chart_blank_jpg-2965026.JPG It doesn't work that way. A graph has an X and a Y axis, not whatever you're adding the right. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:40:35 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are they in two different coordinate systems? Is that how it works in your world? Go back to your earlier example. If the slower ascending monk made it to altitude X at 2:20 PM and the faster descending monk made it to altitude X at 1:40 PM, then by definition the ascending monk was at some altitude Y=X at 1:40. The descending monk is at altitude X. Given their travel in opposite directions, they will cross each other's path between 1:40 and 2:20. All you've done is chosen an arbitrary point in distance and said "see, it's not the same time," which is not at all the problem statement. Your graphs are not in the same coordinate system so it's irrelevant. Not different coordinates, distance stays the same, over all time stays the same. 12 hours up, 12 hours down. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:42:41 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: yes its graph and yours has a problem. The monks starting times are opposite. The below chart I just drew, I had both trips up average the same time over all but variable speeds at different points. You can see they cross, but at different times. The monk on the way up reached the point at about 220 pm and on the way down at about 140 pm. Same place different times. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/497353/monk_jpg-2965006.JPG Draw graph without lines intersecting |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:43:38 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My chart already shows it, the line going up is the gps track and speed then line coming down is day two. They dont meet at the same point and time. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @StaccatoC2 I have a new riddle for you. On day 1 a sherpa is tracking the monk's path up the mountain, because the monk has a satellite internet connected gps relaying his real time coordinates. The sherpa is logging the monk's exact movements. On day 2, the sherpa retraces the monk's path up the mountain, meticulously repeating every single step in the same time as the monk on day 1. Also on day 2, the monk is coming back down the mountain path. Is it possible for them not to cross paths at the same time? How does this work? Please explain. My chart already shows it, the line going up is the gps track and speed then line coming down is day two. They dont meet at the same point and time. Wait, so you're saying the sherpa going up the mountain path and the monk coming down mountain path will cross eachother but at different times? How is that possible? Please elaborate for me so I can understand. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:44:56 PM EST
[#38]
Hold on. Are the monks drinking? I thought they were fond of beer and coffee. We have to factor in pee breaks slowing him and caffeine stimulation. Or maybe the mountains are the Andes and he’s chewing coca leaves. Are South American monks even a thing?
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:45:22 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Low country I will up the bet to 10 pmags if you do the above and the time and place meet. Do you accept? @Low_country Bro at this point you’ve got to be trolling. And if not, I’m seriously doubting your capacity to grasp the answer to the riddle. It’s been explained several times and you’ve already lost the bet. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:45:30 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not different coordinates, distance stays the same, over all time stays the same. 12 hours up, 12 hours down. What happens to the monks between 1:40 and 2:20? Please show me that. You have already shown that they can travel at different speeds and that there are times they occupy the same space on the mountain at different times, neither of which answers the problem. So it's 1:40. The climbing monk is below the descending monk. At 2:20 he will be where the descending monk is now. What happens in the next 40 minutes? |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:46:09 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It doesn't work that way. A graph has an X and a Y axis, not whatever you're adding the right. Ok I will give it to you on graphs having two ( assuming we are not going 3d ) but look at my chart as two graphs over layed. the monk on day two starts at the top at 8am, so he start time has to be called out differently than the starting place/corner of day one. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:47:05 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bro at this point you’ve got to be trolling. And if not, I’m seriously doubting your capacity to grasp the answer to the riddle. It’s been explained several times and you’ve already lost the bet. It's fun in some way, like trying to get Ken M to admit he's a troll. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:47:21 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wait, so you're saying the sherpa going up the mountain path and the monk coming down mountain path will cross eachother but at different times? How is that possible? Please elaborate for me so I can understand. Either time or distance will be the same but both cannot be. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:50:27 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Either time or distance will be the same but both cannot be. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wait, so you're saying the sherpa going up the mountain path and the monk coming down mountain path will cross eachother but at different times? How is that possible? Please elaborate for me so I can understand. Either time or distance will be the same but both cannot be. Brah. One person going up. One person going down. Same day. They ain't gonna see eachother on the trail? |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:50:39 PM EST
[#45]
Imagine monk two can theoretically travel at the speed of sound and monk one travels at a normal walking pace. Imagine the total distance works out such that monk 2, descending at the speed of sound, arrives at the next to last step at the bottom of the mountain at the same time as monk one takes his first step. Say this sequence takes 1 minute to complete. They will meet on the first step at the bottom of the mountain at the same time at 8:01 AM.
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:53:35 PM EST
[#46]
OP is just sitting there laughing his ass off
Bravo sir. Well played  |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:55:19 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Imagine monk two can theoretically travel at the speed of sound and monk one travels at a normal walking pace. Imagine the total distance works out such that monk 2, descending at the speed of sound, arrives at the next to last step at the bottom of the mountain at the same time as monk one takes his first step. Say this sequence takes 1 minute to complete. They will meet on the first step at the bottom of the mountain at the same time at 8:01 AM. Correct. But no one has addressed the real issue here. As altitude increases, gravitational pull is (slightly) reduced. Thus, time dilation will occur and the monk's watch will tick at a different rate depending where on the mountain path he is. If we have two monks (one going up and one coming down), will their watches read different times when they cross paths or the same exact time? Assume their watches are accurate to the picosecond. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:55:57 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wait, so you're saying the sherpa going up the mountain path and the monk coming down mountain path will cross eachother but at different times? How is that possible? Please elaborate for me so I can understand. Okay here is chart with them meeting at the same time, distance traveled is vertical and time is across.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:56:19 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: yes its graph and yours has a problem. The monks starting times are opposite. The below chart I just drew, I had both trips up average the same time over all but variable speeds at different points. You can see they cross, but at different times. The monk on the way up reached the point at about 220 pm and on the way down at about 140 pm. Same place different times. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/497353/monk_jpg-2965006.JPG You have two different Y-axis on the same graph. It doesn't make sense. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:56:21 PM EST
[#50]
This thread still sucks...
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