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Posted: 8/8/2017 8:17:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2017 11:15:41 PM EST by PistolPutz]
Hello all,

I was contacted by a guy with a trade offer for my J45. He has a les paul that he bought new in 1993. He isn't too sure about what kind of les paul it is. He found it hanging in a shop, played it, bought it. He has referred to it as a, "standard classic 1960." It has a pick guard with 1960 on it, 60's neck, the hotter pickups, but the truss rod cover says standard on it. It has a maple top that looks like it is 3 pieces. It looks like a standard to me, but I am not sure about the 1960 pick guard. Any specific guitar I should be looking at? I was hoping it was an early 1993 classic, but if it is a regular standard I am not sure I want to give up my J45 for it. Thanks.

l have attached a photo he gave me without the pick guard.

Link Posted: 8/8/2017 8:32:12 PM EST
Lots of "Chibsons" around so I would want a good photo of the headstock, front and back, and a good photo of the pickups and bridge. Then take those photos and google Chibson and Gibson Counterfeit. You can also run the S/N thru Gibson and usually that will also help identify.
Link Posted: 8/8/2017 8:38:52 PM EST
Looks like a 1993 LP classic premium plus. Although they did not have covered pickups and 1960 on the pickgaurd. The 1960 came out on the classics in the late 90's. Three piece top, I would run far away. Should be book matched two piece with a mahogany body cream binding. I also hate the 60's neck, sorry. Call Gibson with the SN and ask, I would pass with the info given. If the real deal and sounds good, I would jump in a heartbeat.
Link Posted: 8/8/2017 8:47:46 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LESPAUL1:
Looks like a 1993 LP classic premium plus. Although they did not have covered pickups and 1960 on the pickgaurd. The 1960 came out on the classics in the late 90's. Three piece top, I would run far away. Should be book matched two piece with a mahogany body cream binding. I also hate the 60's neck, sorry. Call Gibson with the SN and ask, I would pass with the info given. If the real deal and sounds good, I would jump in a heartbeat.
View Quote
Thanks for the reply, I asked for the serial number and a photo of the back of the headstock. I will probably pass because the pots don't look right and the truss rod cover shouldn't have standard on it for a classic premium plus. I think that's correct anyway. He said nothing has been changed on the guitar so I don't think it all adds up sadly. I also asked about the binding in the cutaway. If it is a classic some of the cap should show under the binding. Standards had binding that completely covered the cap from what I read.
However, I will gladly see what Gibson has to say.
Link Posted: 8/8/2017 8:48:57 PM EST
Fake.
Link Posted: 8/8/2017 8:58:02 PM EST
Looks like a standard to me.
Link Posted: 8/8/2017 8:58:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/8/2017 8:59:12 PM EST by PistolPutz]
Thanks for the reply, I would really like to know why you think it's fake. All of the little mismatches?

Forgot to quote, this message was directed at FairPlay
Link Posted: 8/8/2017 9:26:22 PM EST
As much as I love and Hate Gibson, they do a pretty good job a centering the top. They do not match it up as well as Carvin, But it should not have a seam 1/3 of the way down to the lower portion of the top. I stand behind my comments saying If it's real and sounds good, grab it. BUT...
Link Posted: 8/8/2017 11:51:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/9/2017 12:07:12 AM EST by Fairplay]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PistolPutz:
Thanks for the reply, I would really like to know why you think it's fake. All of the little mismatches?

Forgot to quote, this message was directed at FairPlay
View Quote
I have never seen a three piece maple top on any Gibson Les Paul. The shape doesn't even look right to me. That case style is also very popular on the Chinese fake ones.

Here is a link to the exact same year and model you are saying this one is.

Real 1960 made in 1993
Link Posted: 8/9/2017 6:39:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/9/2017 6:43:03 AM EST by miker84]
There were some 3 piece top LP Standards in the late 80's and early 90's, , maybe earlier but I don't remember.

Edit: That doesn't make the guitar in the OP fake or not...just pointing it out.
Link Posted: 8/9/2017 1:10:19 PM EST
IIRC the 1960 pick guard was used on the 1960 reissue....later to become the R0 Historic.

However, IIRC, the 1960 Reissues were plain top guitars, not highly figured.  Most 1990's LP Standards were of a more plain top too.

The original 90's Classics were a sort of pseudo -1960 reissue, meant to evoke the 1960 without being a full on reissue/historic.

Not that I can t lol much from that crappy picture, but, there's a lot of flame in that top to be a 1960 reissue or a 90's std, imho.

I'd want to see more pix of better quality before deciding, but that seems to have enough question marks as to give me pause....

ymmv 
Link Posted: 8/9/2017 3:37:14 PM EST
Thanks for the replies. He sent me more pics, but has yet to send a serial number. I would like to check it because I am curious. However, I think there are too many questions for me to take the chance based on what I know.

I can post the new photos later if anyone wants to see them.

Thanks again
Link Posted: 8/9/2017 3:54:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/9/2017 3:55:53 PM EST by miker84]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PistolPutz:
Thanks for the replies. He sent me more pics, but has yet to send a serial number. I would like to check it because I am curious. However, I think there are too many questions for me to take the chance based on what I know.

I can post the new photos later if anyone wants to see them.

Thanks again
View Quote
Sounds iffy. On the Chinese ones, the headstock is usually one of the biggest giveaways if you can't get a ser#.
Link Posted: 8/9/2017 4:10:15 PM EST
here's my 1960 Reissue, says Classic on truss rod cover

1992 I think
Link Posted: 8/10/2017 8:51:23 PM EST
The serial number I was given is 90143453. the -453 is a little interesting because doesn't that mean it is supposed to be a Kalamazoo guitar? From what I read I thought those were discontinued in the 80's? Am I incorrect about that?
Link Posted: 8/11/2017 9:14:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/11/2017 9:17:29 AM EST by miker84]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PistolPutz:
The serial number I was given is 90143453. the -453 is a little interesting because doesn't that mean it is supposed to be a Kalamazoo guitar? From what I read I thought those were discontinued in the 80's? Am I incorrect about that?
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Gibson went to a serial format in the late 70's where the date was embedded in the number. The first and fifth numbers are the year. The 3 digits between those are the day of the year. The last 3 indicate the plant and production number. When Kalamazoo closed in the 80's, they shuffled the number system between Nashville and Bozeman so that can lead to confusion. Sometime in the early 2000's, they added an extra number in there, but the decoding is still the same.

I've been told that the Nashville plant uses the 300-900 range. In other words, the first guitar made on a particular day is "301", the next one is "302" and so on.

Using that logic, that serial number indicates January 14, 1993 and was the 153rd guitar made that day in Nashville.

Now, if you call Gibson and they say that the serial numbers on that day only go up to 427, then you may have a fake...or maybe the number is good and someone copied it.

Edit: I've got some photos of a fake headstock next to a real one if you want to see the differences. That is usually the quickest way to tell.
Link Posted: 8/11/2017 1:44:48 PM EST
Here is a 1995 standard with a 3 piece top.
http://larkstreetmusic.com/list/pict/LPred995.jpg

R0 or 1960 Historics never had the 1960 pickgaurd. Those were only on Classics. The earliest classics did not have the 1960 pickgaurd. R0/1960 Historics had both plain & highly flamed tops. Some were called "Lawyer Tops" back in the late 1990's early 2000s, as the joke was only lawyers could afford them.

This particular les paul is odd with the quilted maple top being 3 piece, but not unheard of (see above link). As others have directed, check the serial number with Gibson. Good luck!
Link Posted: 8/12/2017 4:47:14 AM EST
I finally got some more photos. Not the best quality, but hopefully they help a little.

Link Posted: 8/12/2017 4:53:33 AM EST
One more of the body

Link Posted: 8/12/2017 5:05:07 AM EST
Not really impressed with Gibson's customer service lol. I've never had to use it before, but the website says you can call them 24/7. In fact, the website encourages people to call them with inquiries about counterfeits. However, I have not been able to get ahold of anyone. Every time I call I get a prompt to record a message, when I pick the option to talk to the operator it tells me to record a message then just reverts me back to the main menu.
Link Posted: 8/12/2017 6:54:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/12/2017 7:01:52 AM EST by miker84]
Looks real to me. If it is a fake, it is one of the better ones I've seen.

That pickguard is weird though. Who knows where it might have come from. People change up stuff on their guitars all the time. If I had that one, I'd leave the pickguard off anyway.

Here's an old ad of one on reverb just like it.

https://reverb.com/item/1460919-1993-gibson-les-paul-standard-trans-amber
Link Posted: 8/12/2017 2:01:39 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By miker84:
Looks real to me. If it is a fake, it is one of the better ones I've seen.

That pickguard is weird though. Who knows where it might have come from. People change up stuff on their guitars all the time. If I had that one, I'd leave the pickguard off anyway.

Here's an old ad of one on reverb just like it.

https://reverb.com/item/1460919-1993-gibson-les-paul-standard-trans-amber
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Thanks again for your help. That link does look almost exactly the same. The guy who has the guitar was absolutely certain that nothing was changed on the guitar. The pick guard and everything is original according to him. Makes me nervous lol.
Link Posted: 8/14/2017 1:44:34 PM EST
Finally, got ahold of Gibson. They confirmed everything about the guitar. The rep even called it a "standard classic" but clarified that it is a standard in classic 60's style. The pick guard, 3 piece curly maple top, hardware, trans-amber finish were all confirmed as being original to the guitar.

Now I just gotta decide if I want to trade for it
Link Posted: 8/14/2017 2:26:02 PM EST
Post picks of the J45 so we can see if it is a fake.
Link Posted: 8/14/2017 7:35:06 PM EST
Nice, thanks for the updates. This is a new one to me. A quality Gibson is really a treat to play, not my personal choice in necks or top, but it is kinda cool. Good luck and keep us informed. Fun to follow along.
Link Posted: 8/14/2017 8:20:24 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LESPAUL1:
Nice, thanks for the updates. This is a new one to me. A quality Gibson is really a treat to play, not my personal choice in necks or top, but it is kinda cool. Good luck and keep us informed. Fun to follow along.
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Thanks, what Gibson had to say definitely changed my outlook. I'm going to go check it out at the very least. The 3 piece top isn't my favorite, but I actually prefer the thinner neck. If it has any of that '90's mojo I've heard about I will snag it. I'm definitely a tone chaser over looks. I just wish he played it more. According to him its basically only been maintained for the last 24 years. He would take it out, check the neck, tune it up, strum a chord, and then put it back.
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 11:15:15 PM EST
Finally got to meet up with the guy. I'm glad I did, because this guitar is amazing. It basically looks like a new guitar that is 24 years old, other than a few tiny blems. Once I picked it up I didn't want to put it down. This neck is a dream and plays incredible. I'm really looking forward to spending time with it.

Kind of funny how it all worked out because I was trying to find every reason to talk myself out of it in the beginning lol. Now I don't know if I could ever get rid of it

It is a monster though weighing a good bit over 9 pounds. It really sings, but the pickups are definitely hot. I want to live with it awhile, but I am curious how it might sound with some type of more classic PAF type setup.

Anyway, thanks again for all the help. I really do appreciate it.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 10:46:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2017 10:47:38 AM EST by miker84]
nice!

Glad it worked out.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 11:09:36 AM EST
HaHa, Nice. Good find and it sounds like a good one. My Custom is hot and sounds great with the amp miked up. My key was running a volume pedal so I could drive the guitar and the amp without blowing a small venue out the door. Cool find, never saw one like it before.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:26:23 PM EST
Thanks guys, finally had time to take one last photo. This one shows the color a little better. One interesting thing I found out is that the pick guard that it came with was never installed. No holes in the guitar from it.

Link Posted: 8/23/2017 3:26:22 PM EST


That 3pc top is different for sure, but looks great!
Link Posted: 9/5/2017 6:14:11 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PistolPutz:
Thanks guys, finally had time to take one last photo. This one shows the color a little better. One interesting thing I found out is that the pick guard that it came with was never installed. No holes in the guitar from it.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/244794/IMG_1121_JPG-288309.jpg
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I have never installed, and don't like pick guard installed. I like the clean look...Nice looking...
Link Posted: 9/11/2017 1:51:01 PM EST
Thanks, I am loving it so far. I actually contacted Gibson by email to see if they could tell me if this was some specific variation of a Standard. I wasn't sure about the 3 piece top myself, but I don't really mind it. The guitar sounds really good. It's funny .. I don't remember seeing many 3 piece tops before. Then I went and saw Guns n Roses recently and Slash was standing right in front of me playing a LP with a 3 piece plain top
Link Posted: 9/12/2017 9:41:42 AM EST
Good looking Les Paul you got.

I can't remember seeing many 3 piece tops either.
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