Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
Posted: 1/7/2012 7:45:57 AM EDT
Question. If illegal drugs are made legal I would assume they would be sold at stores much the same way as whiskey or beer is sold. So what about prescription drugs? Will they also be available without a Dr prescription? If not why not?
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 7:46:33 AM EDT
interesting question. tag for results.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 7:46:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Question. If illegal drugs are made legal I would assume they would be sold at stores much the same way as whiskey or beer is sold. So what about prescription drugs? Will they also be available without a Dr prescription? If not why not?


Are you high?
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 7:47:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 7:48:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2012 7:49:55 AM EDT by ED_P]
I would assume Liquor stores would take up the role of recreational drugs, and you could buy a case of beer and X number of whatever drug you wanted.

Pharmacies would handle prescription drugs.

I see alcohol as the "Test run" of how well society would do with legalized drugs, and I definitely wouldn't give us a passing grade.

Link Posted: 1/7/2012 7:49:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Question. If illegal drugs are made legal I would assume they would be sold at stores much the same way as whiskey or beer is sold. So what about prescription drugs? Will they also be available without a Dr prescription? If not why not?


Just a quick comment from a doctor: The only class of drugs that I would not want available without a prescription is antibiotics. People are stupid when it comes to antibiotics and cannot be trusted with them.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 7:52:25 AM EDT
Prescription drugs ARE legal drugs. You can legally obtain everything from narcotic pain killers to amphetamines with a permit (script) provided by a licensed government approved source (doctor). Look at the economics of pharmaceutical drugs to get a picture of the amount of money in illegal drugs.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 7:53:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EasTexan:
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Question. If illegal drugs are made legal I would assume they would be sold at stores much the same way as whiskey or beer is sold. So what about prescription drugs? Will they also be available without a Dr prescription? If not why not?


Are you high?


No I don't do drugs. But I am on the fence about legalizing Mary Jane. But it does seem like a slippery slope.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 7:53:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
So what about prescription drugs? Will they also be available without a Dr prescription? If not why not?


In the vast majority of the non-free world you don't have to beg a MD's permission to get the medicine you need. You just go buy it.

We have Rx requirements in this country to put money in doctor's pockets, and for no other reason.

Truth:

If you have 30 tablets of amoxicillan in your posession that are for your sister, or you have it with no Rx whatsoever, you can go to jail. This is for amoxicillan marked for human use. If you have the exact same stuff, made by the exact same company, from the exact same batch, but it is marked veterinary, it is perfectly legal.

You can get all the medicines you need with no Rx, you just need to get them from a vet supply. They are the exact same stuff, same quality, everything. That's how fucked up our laws are.

Link Posted: 1/7/2012 7:53:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless:
How in heaven's name would controlled drugs ever become uncontrolled in this country?




Zantac
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 7:57:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 8:00:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless:
How in heaven's name would controlled drugs ever become uncontrolled in this country?




I am not sure what you are asking. Legalizing Mary Jane is coming up for a vote in my state.I assume we will vote on it and if it passes we will be able to buy it Legally
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 8:01:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DarnHippie:
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
So what about prescription drugs? Will they also be available without a Dr prescription? If not why not?


In the vast majority of the non-free world you don't have to beg a MD's permission to get the medicine you need. You just go buy it.

We have Rx requirements in this country to put money in doctor's pockets, and for no other reason.

Truth:

If you have 30 tablets of amoxicillan in your posession that are for your sister, or you have it with no Rx whatsoever, you can go to jail. This is for amoxicillan marked for human use. If you have the exact same stuff, made by the exact same company, from the exact same batch, but it is marked veterinary, it is perfectly legal.

You can get all the medicines you need with no Rx, you just need to get them from a vet supply. They are the exact same stuff, same quality, everything. That's how fucked up our laws are.

In a truly free society you can buy whatever you want but people with any amount of common sense would consult a doctor or pharmacist first. The others would be a self solving problem after they take ritalin for chest pain and lipitor for a burst appendix.

Link Posted: 1/7/2012 8:03:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 8:04:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AKengineer:
Prescription drugs ARE legal drugs. You can legally obtain everything from narcotic pain killers to amphetamines with a permit (script) provided by a licensed government approved source (doctor). Look at the economics of pharmaceutical drugs to get a picture of the amount of money in illegal drugs.


So why would you need a prescription for Xanax but not marijuana or cocaine? All 3 can be used for recreational purposes as well as medical.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 8:07:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2012 8:09:29 AM EDT by AKengineer]

Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Originally Posted By AKengineer:
Prescription drugs ARE legal drugs. You can legally obtain everything from narcotic pain killers to amphetamines with a permit (script) provided by a licensed government approved source (doctor). Look at the economics of pharmaceutical drugs to get a picture of the amount of money in illegal drugs.


So why would you need a prescription for Xanax but not marijuana or cocaine? All 3 can be used for recreational purposes as well as medical.

Some places will give you a prescription for marijuana and narcotics.
Originally a script was the doctor's recommendation that you took to a pharmacist to compound the stuff you needed. Pills used to not come in bottles ready to be taken and had to be made locally from chemical compounds.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 8:07:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By C-4:
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Question. If illegal drugs are made legal I would assume they would be sold at stores much the same way as whiskey or beer is sold. So what about prescription drugs? Will they also be available without a Dr prescription? If not why not?


Just a quick comment from a doctor: The only class of drugs that I would not want available without a prescription is antibiotics. People are stupid when it comes to antibiotics and cannot be trusted with them.


that btw, is a VERY interesting point of view. all you have to do is look at some of the super bugs that have evolved over that last 50 years due to the use of antibiotics to get some idea of the problems of allowing antibiotics over the counter.

i used work in a drugstore in the 60s/70s. once any kind of flu got around everyone went to the doctor and the doctor prescribed everyone with antibiotics. working in a drugstore, i got sick i just got the pharmacist to give me whatever the docs were prescribing. nowadays i get sick, i actually avoid taking antibiotics because they arent effective against viruses in most cases.

you make antibiotics OTC and some folks will take everything. give it a few years and nothing will work against evolved pathogens.

about the legalized drugs. i suspect if it ever becomes legal they will slowly roll out what is legal to take. then states would have to allow it, then cities. it would be taxed and sold under some sort of control, perhaps out of drugstores. a lot would go into drinks like the old cocaine wines. is unlikely you would buy pure anything and perhaps it would be unlikely most folks would buy pure narcotics if it was available. i mean, who buys everclear? me, i drink beer. i dont care much for harder alcohol, even wine because of the amount of alcohol contained. many folks would probably use drugs but in heavily diluted forms.

but it will never happen in my life time. drugs are the debil.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 8:08:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Originally Posted By Aimless:
How in heaven's name would controlled drugs ever become uncontrolled in this country?




I am not sure what you are asking. Legalizing Mary Jane is coming up for a vote in my state.I assume we will vote on it and if it passes we will be able to buy it Legally
I was referring to your comment about prescription drugs. Marijuana will still be illegal, the federal law still applies anyway.



In Washington State it is legal to grow up to 10 pot plants as long as you hang a sign that reads for medical use. why aren't the Feds enforcing the law and isn't this a state issue?
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 8:15:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2012 8:17:21 AM EDT by MINOBARN]
Liability will handle the problem. (Plus it would be a state issue)

Everything will be available. Companies, Pharmacies, (States), etc will choose to require a prescription for purchase.

ETA: Like spray paint or Legal age requirements. You have to qualify to buy.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 8:34:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2012 8:36:04 AM EDT by hotbiggun42]
Originally Posted By MINOBARN:
Liability will handle the problem. (Plus it would be a state issue)

Everything will be available. Companies, Pharmacies, (States), etc will choose to require a prescription for purchase.

ETA: Like spray paint or Legal age requirements. You have to qualify to buy.


You can already get Mary Jane with a Dr script here but soon to be sold for recreational use also.the question is if this happens why would i need a script to buy oxycotin if I wanted it for recreational use?
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 9:09:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 9:30:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2012 9:31:45 AM EDT by DoberDude]

Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Originally Posted By Aimless:
How in heaven's name would controlled drugs ever become uncontrolled in this country?




I am not sure what you are asking. Legalizing Mary Jane is coming up for a vote in my state.I assume we will vote on it and if it passes we will be able to buy it Legally
I hadn't seen this new petiton.

I thought Obama threatened us and the Governor backed off our voter approved medical MJ law when the federal Gov said they would arrest her employees if it was implemented?

So, I'm thinking no, you wouldn't be able to buy it legally even if passed because it's still illegal Federally and they would raid the stores selling it. ???? I'm confused.

It's a godamm plant that grows in the dirt for christ sakes. In 100 years we are gonna look so fucking stupid.


They better not make eggplant illegal. You Will Not Touch My Eggplant!11!1!1!


Link Posted: 1/7/2012 9:31:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2012 9:33:30 AM EDT by MINOBARN]
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Originally Posted By MINOBARN:
Liability will handle the problem. (Plus it would be a state issue)

Everything will be available. Companies, Pharmacies, (States), etc will choose to require a prescription for purchase.

ETA: Like spray paint or Legal age requirements. You have to qualify to buy.


You can already get Mary Jane with a Dr script here but soon to be sold for recreational use also.the question is if this happens why would i need a script to buy oxycotin if I wanted it for recreational use?


If the State said everything goes and the Feds don't butt in, The Seller decides on the requirements.
They can sell to everybody increasing their profit and their liability.
They can choose to require a prescription, an animal sacrifice, or a ritual dance.

If something goes wrong (death, illness, etc from wrongful use) they can blame it on the doctor.




Link Posted: 1/7/2012 9:42:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Question. If illegal drugs are made legal I would assume they would be sold at stores much the same way as whiskey or beer is sold. So what about prescription drugs? Will they also be available without a Dr prescription? If not why not?

There are several different levels of legalization and it would probably depend on the specific drug in question. Some drugs could be over-the-counter with age limits like alcohol, some could be prescription-only like percocet, some could be unregulated like caffeine. In some countries doctors prescribe addicts maintenance doses of heroin and drugs like that. Goofy as that sounds it actually works better than prohibition.

Personally I would adopt the alcohol model for marijuana and some of the more benign "club drugs," and have the "hard drugs" be by prescription. I think this would be safer than either the failed prohibition that we have today or total legalization that some advocate. History has shown that when one drug is made unavailable, people switch to alternatives that are sometimes more dangerous, which is why you see people getting high on things like bath salts and futile efforts by the government to ban common chemicals in response. I think that this approach would allow people to indulge in the safer drugs (face it: people want drugs and are going to get them) while still attaching a social stigma to the more dangerous ones.

There would still be a black/gray market with stolen prescription-only drugs, but it won't be as prevalent as it is today.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 10:13:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Question. If illegal drugs are made legal I would assume they would be sold at stores much the same way as whiskey or beer is sold. So what about prescription drugs? Will they also be available without a Dr prescription? If not why not?


Why not? If you're going to legalize heroin brewed up in some shady underground lab it doesn't really makes sense to require a prescription for heroin made in a lab owned by a pharmaceutical company.

Frankly, I'd like to see drugs be so cheap and easy to get in the US that Mexico starts crying about the open border and all the drugs flowing south.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 10:24:54 AM EDT
Light drugs (weed) should be completely legalized and taxed, to be sold by dispensaries or licensed growers. I'd like to see coke added to that list as well.

Heroin, opiates, and meth should be reduced to severe fines for possession, and jail for distributing.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 10:36:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Light drugs (weed) should be completely legalized and taxed, to be sold by dispensaries or licensed growers. I'd like to see coke added to that list as well.

Heroin, opiates, and meth should be reduced to severe fines for possession, and jail for distributing.


The problem with punishing people monetarily for crime, any crime, is that it becomes revenue and then it becomes a runaway train.

As the ability to collect revenue from one crime becomes available, priorities and focus shift to that and less time is spent enforcing other laws.

Speeding is a perfect example. When I was robbed in Az. they told me they didn't have the manpower to investigate. I left my house later that day and within a couple of miles of my house I saw 3 policeman with drivers pulled over writing tickets. WTF?

Monetary punishment is a bad idea. Restitution to a victim is one thing. The state demanding money is another.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 10:38:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By C-4:
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Question. If illegal drugs are made legal I would assume they would be sold at stores much the same way as whiskey or beer is sold. So what about prescription drugs? Will they also be available without a Dr prescription? If not why not?


Just a quick comment from a doctor: The only class of drugs that I would not want available without a prescription is antibiotics. People are stupid when it comes to antibiotics and cannot be trusted with them.


seconded.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 10:44:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Steve_T_M:

Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Question. If illegal drugs are made legal I would assume they would be sold at stores much the same way as whiskey or beer is sold. So what about prescription drugs? Will they also be available without a Dr prescription? If not why not?

There are several different levels of legalization and it would probably depend on the specific drug in question. Some drugs could be over-the-counter with age limits like alcohol, some could be prescription-only like percocet, some could be unregulated like caffeine. In some countries doctors prescribe addicts maintenance doses of heroin and drugs like that. Goofy as that sounds it actually works better than prohibition.
snip


Those countries would include the United States. Guess what methadone's main use is for. Guess who pays for it. Hint: not the addict.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 1:43:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoberDude:

Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Light drugs (weed) should be completely legalized and taxed, to be sold by dispensaries or licensed growers. I'd like to see coke added to that list as well.

Heroin, opiates, and meth should be reduced to severe fines for possession, and jail for distributing.


The problem with punishing people monetarily for crime, any crime, is that it becomes revenue and then it becomes a runaway train.

As the ability to collect revenue from one crime becomes available, priorities and focus shift to that and less time is spent enforcing other laws.

Speeding is a perfect example. When I was robbed in Az. they told me they didn't have the manpower to investigate. I left my house later that day and within a couple of miles of my house I saw 3 policeman with drivers pulled over writing tickets. WTF?

Monetary punishment is a bad idea. Restitution to a victim is one thing. The state demanding money is another.

The money should ear-marked for treatment, not general funds.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 1:48:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Question. If illegal drugs are made legal I would assume they would be sold at stores much the same way as whiskey or beer is sold. So what about prescription drugs? Will they also be available without a Dr prescription? If not why not?


Because the whole point of requring a prescription for that med is that its being taken under the supervision of a prescribing doctor for a specific problem to ensure that proper dose/ side effects & interactions/ other issues are monitored and addressed. Its a public and personal health/ safety issue.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 5:50:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By C-4:
Just a quick comment from a doctor: The only class of drugs that I would not want available without a prescription is antibiotics. People are stupid when it comes to antibiotics and cannot be trusted with them.


Would seem to be the only kind of drug abuse that violates the libertarian's "as long as it's not harming anyone else" mantra...
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 7:53:39 PM EDT
There will always be drug abusers and scumbag drug dealers.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 8:10:02 PM EDT
The Governor should then put the feds on notice that state and municipal police will be put in place to protect state employees and government officials. See how the fed like that.

Originally Posted By DoberDude:

Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Originally Posted By Aimless:
How in heaven's name would controlled drugs ever become uncontrolled in this country?




I am not sure what you are asking. Legalizing Mary Jane is coming up for a vote in my state.I assume we will vote on it and if it passes we will be able to buy it Legally
I hadn't seen this new petiton.

I thought Obama threatened us and the Governor backed off our voter approved medical MJ law when the federal Gov said they would arrest her employees if it was implemented?

So, I'm thinking no, you wouldn't be able to buy it legally even if passed because it's still illegal Federally and they would raid the stores selling it. ???? I'm confused.

It's a godamm plant that grows in the dirt for christ sakes. In 100 years we are gonna look so fucking stupid.


They better not make eggplant illegal. You Will Not Touch My Eggplant!11!1!1!




Link Posted: 1/7/2012 8:20:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2012 8:22:45 PM EDT by Stantonizm]
I figure they would do it the same way they run methadone clinics now.

Originally Posted By sparty:
Originally Posted By Steve_T_M:

Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Question. If illegal drugs are made legal I would assume they would be sold at stores much the same way as whiskey or beer is sold. So what about prescription drugs? Will they also be available without a Dr prescription? If not why not?

There are several different levels of legalization and it would probably depend on the specific drug in question. Some drugs could be over-the-counter with age limits like alcohol, some could be prescription-only like percocet, some could be unregulated like caffeine. In some countries doctors prescribe addicts maintenance doses of heroin and drugs like that. Goofy as that sounds it actually works better than prohibition.
snip


Those countries would include the United States. Guess what methadone's main use is for. Guess who pays for it. Hint: not the addict.


There are a lot of methadone clinics around here. They're for profit clinics and the addicts pay something like 15 bucks a day for their fix.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 9:06:40 PM EDT
We don't have a drug problem in this country. What we have is a distribution problem. The basic principles of supply & demand cause the problem.

We have recreational drug users. They want certain drugs. The most resourceful in the group get a doctor to provide their supply. Going outside of that supply chain is possible, but with higher costs and risks.

Let's use Meth as an example.
People were using "speed" or amphetamines long before meth. Benzedrine has been around since the 1930's. It was not controlled until 1959, when the FDA made it a prescription drug. In the 1960's, "speed" or "whites" or "dexies" kept people up for finals, kept truckers on the road - and kept GI's in the fight. Due to some research done in 1937, it was learned that Benzedrine had a calming effect on overactive children. Now they give those kids Adderall - a very similar substance.

Meth is the result of a restricted supply of amphetamines. Made in crappy labs, with questionable science. Because nobody would prescribe amphetamines any longer. Driving the price way up, and causing much collateral damage. They figured out how to make it out of OTC cold meds. The result? Now you have to sign for goddamn cold medicine. They check ID's.

I really think we need to re-classify certain pharmaceuticals as "Recreational". No permission from the doctor. OTC to the over 21 crowd just like booze, but with a limit & controls. Just like cold medicine now...

Pfizer & GSK can have a field day cranking out amphetamines. We already have most of the controls in place. Instead of signing for cold medicine - sign for the 20 dexedrine tablets the pharmacist will hand you. We have the capacity to track this kind of thing. We can and do test people for drugs every day. With a known purity & dose, a legal user is more likely to tell an ER doc or cop the truth. Instead of trying to figure out which of the 100 people that signed for cold medicine today are up to no good, you can have a harder look at the 20 people that signed for amphetamines. The USPS can tell me who signed for a letter in seconds. We have the technology & capacity.

No more labs blowing up. No more mystery ingredients. No more money for Chuey & Paco. Increased profits for US companies. No more stealing the little brother's Adderall. The users get to keep their teeth.

Just a thought.
Top Top