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Posted: 6/15/2001 12:23:10 PM EDT
Dear List. Could someone please inform me of the legality of building a folding stock AR? I am involved in a project that will eventually end up being a folding stock 16 1/2 inch barreled carbine A3 with a non adjustable folding stock.Is this legal? Does it have to be a pre-ban lower.thanks Synweap223
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 1:09:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 3:21:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 4:15:19 PM EDT
So for me to have a folding stock AR carbine with a pistol grip, It has to be a pre ban lower for it to be legal. Correct?? Synweap223
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 7:29:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Synweap223: So for me to have a folding stock AR carbine with a pistol grip, It has to be a pre ban lower for it to be legal. Correct?? Synweap223
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The term "preban lower" can be confusing - to qualify the lower must have been part of a semi-auto assault weapon (SAW) before the 1994 Crime Bill went into effect. It is not sufficient that the lower was manufactured before 1994. See the following thread for more: [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=21845[/url] Dfender
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 12:22:49 PM EDT
or part of a kit if it was ever a SAW its always a saw theres been much disenformation about that
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 12:57:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 6:29:36 PM EDT
Look at Z-M weapons post ban Z300 folder kit. They combined the folding stock and pistol grip into a single unit.
Link Posted: 6/17/2001 9:41:41 AM EDT
Synweap223, Chuck and Troy are correct, AR18 is correct (but what does that have to do with your question) and huffits is flat out wrong. FEDERAL LAW: [url]http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/921.html[/url] US CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE PART I - CRIMES CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS § 921. Definitions. (30) The term ''semiautomatic assault weapon'' means - (B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of - (i) a folding or telescoping stock; (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; (iii) a bayonet mount; (iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and (v) a grenade launcher; Look at a legal post-ban non LEO / MIL AR15 and that is your template: Semi-Auto Ability to accept detachable mags Pistol Grip That's it. You want a folder? You have to get a pre-ban AR15. Legal issues aside that is the only way to do it. Next time you ask for advice see if the "advisors" can give you links to the laws!
Link Posted: 6/17/2001 11:03:46 AM EDT
How about trying to READ the law. I'll spell it out for you: Common sense: You want a post-ban AR15? How does it come configured? Semi-automatic Detachable magazine Pistol grip. That's it, you can't add anything else. If you do you are MANUFACTURING a "defined" "Assault Weapon". If you add TWO (here is where the reading thing comes in handy) you have manufactured a defined "assault weapon". So, to reacap for the reading impaired: FEDERAL LAW: Semi automatic rifle Detachable magazine One item from list of features IS NOT A "DEFINED" ASSAULT WEAPON. ADD ONE MORE ITEM AND IT IS NOW A "DEFINED" ASSAULT WEAPON. Now was that so hard? Now how about you doing a little research on the laws of 1988 and 1994 you are so fond of quoting. You are putting out bullshit info.
Link Posted: 6/17/2001 1:29:23 PM EDT
Hey, you are the dipshit that posted that it's ok to have more than one "defining feature" and still be legal. And what the fuck is this stupid shit? There is no 1998 FEDERAL law concerning AR15's. A pre-ban is an AR15 made (that complies with the law) before Sept, 1994. A post-ban is anything made after Sept 1994. There are no "three levels" of pre-ban. Quote the law, post the URL. Quit making shit up. Shut the fuck up TROLL BOY. huffing gold spray paint states:
Link Posted: 6/17/2001 1:29:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By huffits: yep an AR is a semi auto. And if it's post ban only get two evils huh, is that the way you read it clearfire.
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huffits: The key feature to a semi auto "assault weapon" is the detachable magazine. Detachable magazine is not just one of the features - it's a defining feature. No detachable mag means you can put any damn thing you want on it - there is no pre or post ban for a semi auto with a fixed magazine. Once the magazine is removable, you can have ONE feature. Usually that's the pistol grip, but you could theoretically take off the pistol grip and add a flash hider. Bayonet lugs were banned in 1989 for IMPORTED rifles - the 89 bush import ban has no effect whatsoever on domestic US production, like 99.9% of all AR-15's. You can get around the 89 import ban restrictions by using enough US parts for the imported rifle to be considered "domestic".
Link Posted: 6/19/2001 4:37:27 AM EDT
When asking legality questions always look to the source, even if it is a pain. ATF website http://www.atf.treas.gov FAQ on NFA and other weapons http://www.atf.treas.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/qanda.htm The actual NFA http://www.atf.treas.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/gca.htm
Link Posted: 6/20/2001 11:15:29 AM EDT
Here is the the simple solution: Buy a pre 1988 Colt AR-15 Sporter II "green label" rifle. [or any other pre 1988 Colt made complete rifle, ] From this rifle, [which is as close to an M16 as your gonna get with all evil features] you can add folding buttstock, 16" shorty barrel, or any evil features you want. INCLUDING the bayonet lug. Use any other rifle, or lower, and you are in a gray area, subject to ATF clarifiaction.
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