Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 11/18/2012 2:06:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/18/2012 3:11:40 AM EST by OHMR95B]
Is it legal to install all the lower parts in a stripped lower for another? Is it OK to charge to do this as a non-FFL? What if they "gift" you for your time? I have build a few ARs, and now I am having people ask me to build up lowers for them. Just trying to avoid PMITA Federal Prison.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 1:18:43 AM EST
I don't see why it wouldn't be ok.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 1:32:28 AM EST
I've done it countless times.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 1:44:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 1:44:54 AM EST
Absolutely legal if the lower is already theirs.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 1:57:34 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 2:06:08 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 2:38:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/18/2012 2:40:19 AM EST by OHMR95B]
Aimless,

Thanks for moving this. So no-go huh? Just to be clear, the ATF defined "firearm" is already registered to them.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 2:52:33 AM EST
It actually appears to be a little "gray"... Even after reading the above post (great info by the way. Thanks for that!). I think on a small scale it's probably not going to raise any flags for BATFE. However, I think they leave some things a little "gray" so they have the freedom to interpret the law whichever way suits them at the time. So I would keep this activity to a minimum if it were me.
Also... And more importantly... Do you want the liability of having built a lower for some jack-ass that goes and blows himself up and then blames you for it because you "built" his rifle? I would think not.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 4:13:09 AM EST
I used to record from my albums to my cassettes. I even tear the tags off my pillows.

Helping a friend assemble a lower is not the intent of these laws in as much as it is geared toward the manufacturing and selling of firearms.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 4:29:15 AM EST
If your friend stays with you and you do not keep possession over night without him there you are fine. If he leaves it with you for a day as you assemble it then returns for it, you will need a license. If you are charging for it, you will need a license. Are both rules stupid as shit? Absolutely, but it is what it is.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 4:39:09 AM EST
If he already bought the lower, then he already bought the firearm. If that was the case then you couldn't refinish a friends gun or put a scope on one.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 8:10:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/18/2012 8:13:23 AM EST by DogtownTom]
Originally Posted By OHMR95B:
Is it legal to install all the lower parts in a stripped lower for another? Is it OK to charge to do this as a non-FFL? What if they "gift" you for your time? I have build a few ARs, and now I am having people ask me to build up lowers for them. Just trying to avoid PMITA Federal Prison.


<––––FFL

Engaging in the business of "gunsmithing" requires at least an 01FFL (dealer). Federal law and ATF regs are VERY clear on this.
If you install a parts kit on someone elses lower it is considered gunsmithing.
If you buy lowers and build them into complete lowers for sale you are manufacturing.

Originally Posted By NoMoAMMO:
If he already bought the lower, then he already bought the firearm. If that was the case then you couldn't refinish a friends gun or put a scope on one.

Doing a friend a favor is far different from doing those same activities as a business. If you accept compensation for your refinishing, scope mounting gunsmithing, etc............you are engaging in the business.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 12:39:06 PM EST
Thanks for the replies guys. I have sent a letter to the ATF for clarification, but for now, I am going to completely hold off.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 5:27:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/18/2012 5:37:51 PM EST by iNeXile556]


27 CFR 478.11 - Meaning of terms.



(a) Manufacturer of firearms. A person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms manufactured;

(d) Gunsmith. A person who devotes time, attention, and labor to engaging in such activity as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit, but such a term shall not include a person who makes occasional repairs of firearms or who occasionally fits special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms;
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 2:15:42 AM EST
I jusst saw where you wanted money for it, and retract my statement. I originally looked at this from my phone.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 11:03:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 11:03:57 AM EST by KiowaCreekRaider]
I have them come to my shop with their parts.
They work on their guns with my tools. They take their stuff with them when they leave.
I sometimes offer helpful suggestions as they work.
No money changes hands.
Top Top