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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 4/11/2002 1:58:26 PM EDT
I was reading my CHL handbook and I could not find a legal definition of travelling (PC 46.15) Could anyone point me to a site that will thoroughly explain such. Thanks!
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 2:02:24 PM EDT
In what context Paul??
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 2:09:29 PM EDT
in the context of having a gun in the vehicle, I take it? I've heard 'travelling' as far as this is concerned is crossing at least two county lines to get from one point to a destination. Just going down the street to the store is not considered 'travelling'. AR15(confused about travelling)fencer
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 2:29:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2002 2:30:55 PM EDT by BostonTeaParty]
I think the legal answer is that nobody knows. The law is found in Title 10 of the Texas Statutes, Section 46.15(b), which states that "Sec. 46.02 does not apply to a person who:...(3)is traveling;" and Section 46.02 states that "A person commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, or club." The courts or the legislature have never given us a solid definition of "traveling." [url=http://www.io.com/~velte/moosani.htm]Moosani v. Texas[/url] is a good example. Look at section IV of the dissent for the Judge Meyer's discussion of the "traveling" issue in Texas. If you want a THOROUGH discussion of the issue that should cover it.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 2:51:59 PM EDT
Searched it and found this link to be the most informative. [url]http://www.healylaw.com/gun_cle.htm[/url] Basically, the definition is so vague and mythical that no one really knows. Even with all the precedents, interpretation of the statutes will depend on how smart/stupid or how determined the DA wants you to go to jail. Thank God for the CHL!!!
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 3:59:50 PM EDT
In Arkansas you are considered on a journey if you are travelling 25 miles outside of your normal area of operation. That used to come up frequently before the CCW law was passed.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 4:20:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2002 4:21:48 PM EDT by hanko]
'Traveling' in TX is an affirmative defense...it won't stop you from getting arrested, but if you are it MAY get you off the hook (excluding what you spend on a lawyer, etc.). It's all based on case law; some cases define it as crossing 2 county lines before returning to the starting point, some go by mileage, most have an overnight stay in common. Since it is based on case law, interpretations vary like hell. You really need Eric's opinion on this one. -hanko who's ex-TX & missing it! edited 'cause I'm my own spell checker.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 4:25:28 PM EDT
if your travling more than 2 counties in the state of texas, you can carry a pistol in your vehical and i think CC, with or without a permit. if your 21. 18yrs+ you can take a rifle anyware anytime. this is what my dad said and he was HPD for 15 yrs.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 4:37:33 PM EDT
The bottom line is that the traveling affirmative defense is vague, and may still result in you getting arrested until you can get acquited in court. Get a CHL and you won't have to worry about it any more. Or you can always carry a long gun, since the Texas carry laws generally apply to only handguns [:D]
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 4:42:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 5:32:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ckapsl: The bottom line is that the traveling affirmative defense is vague, and may still result in you getting arrested until you can get acquited in court. Get a CHL and you won't have to worry about it any more. Or you can always carry a long gun, since the Texas carry laws generally apply to only handguns [:D]
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I'm a Texas LEO and I have no clue what traveling is. But ckapsl is right on the money...it's only a defense after the fact if you are arrested. Unfortunately there are LEO's out there that have that "greater than thou" attitude and would arrest someone regardless if they were traveling or not.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 6:15:37 PM EDT
I was told that the when Bush got us the CHL in Texas.. (NO Thanks TO THAT PREVIOUS BITCH OF A GOVERNOR ANN RICHARDSON) that the traveling law no longer stood. If you want to carry across two counties, you'll need to get a CHL to do it legally now... I cannot personally vouch for this , but friends told me they were instructed this in their CHL Class
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 6:29:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2002 6:31:34 PM EDT by Necromancer]
Just took my CHL class, and since we dicussed this in class with a retired defense lawyer, here's what I walked away from understanding it. It is a defense to prosecution. It is still in the books. It is only considered "traveling" if it is not due to the course of day to day routine. IE working in Ft Worth and living in Plano. although you cross 2 county lines each day, its not traveling cause its day to day routine. Most judges will only allow this as a defense if you can prove without a shadow of a doubt that you are indeed traveling. Overnight stay is a good proof. You can only carry in your car. If you stop off at a McD's along the way, you must leave it in the car. Bear in mind I am not a lawyer, and this info is only based on a CHL class in which a ret. defense lawyer was in attendance. So take this only with a grain of salt. I will not come bail you out [;D]
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 6:34:11 PM EDT
I'd have to concur with "reference TX case law". I was at Ft Hood and had some time to kill at the college library researching this very topic. I don't believe the 2 county line idea is valid. I remember a case where a defendant's conviction was upheld because his travelling was from Killeen to Austin and back on the same day. Approx an hour drive, one way, and definitely across 2 county lines. Court held that it wasn't travelling. All in all, it is really going to depend on the circumstances of your encounter with law enforcement, and the believability of your travelling story as well as the LEO. Best idea is to get a concealed carry license, even though they're not cheap in TX. Be smart, jd1
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 7:08:05 PM EDT
Don, AR15FENCER is right. I was reading my Texas CHL handbook and I could not seem to find any legal definition of when someone is considered "travelling". It states on page 44 that it is one of the conditions of "Nonapplicability" but no mention whatsoever of any criteria how one is judged to be travelling or not. I wish that ETH would chime in on this. Thanks for all the replies guys.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 7:11:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Citabria7GCBC: if your travling more than 2 counties in the state of texas, you can carry a pistol in your vehical and i think CC, with or without a permit. if your 21. 18yrs+ you can take a rifle anyware anytime. this is what my dad said and he was HPD for 15 yrs.
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Which HPD is that?? Just curious.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 7:15:14 PM EDT
OOOooppps! Forgot to mention, I have had a CHL for 3 yrs now.[^][^][^]
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 3:29:15 AM EDT
Travelling is defined by case law. Generally, case law has held sucessful defense of Unawful Carry of Weapons (UCW) charges in cases where: 1) The trip involved crossing at least two county lines; and 2) An overnight stay. The change in law went from making "travelling" a "defense to prosecution" to making it an "exception." (moved it from PC 46.02 to PC 46.15). A defense to prosecution needs to be proven in the affirmative by the defense attorney in a pretrial hearing before the judge. If proven, the case goes away. An "exception" actually means that if the "travelling" exemption exists, there should not be an arrest. Note that all of the Peace Officer stuff is an "exception"; there was actually legal authority for a peace officer to arrest another peace officer for legally carrying their sidearm until this changed a few years ago. What does this mean in the real world of Texas law enforcement? Probably not much. I have never seen or used this law in my several years of working. The only one that came close was a guy from a couple of counties away who was in town for a car show and waved a gun at other motorists who cut him off (and there wasn't enough to charge him with Agg Assault). He could have possibly used travelling, but plead out instead. Bottom line is that travelling will depend entirely on the often incorrect interpretation of the law by an officer on the side of the road, and will be further clarified by what the local County Attorney thinks he can and should prosecute. If you were just carrying, it will be a diferent than if you were waving it at other motorists. If it worries you, get a CHL or carry a long gun (that's why God gave us gun racks). BTW, I am not a lawyer.
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