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Posted: 2/5/2001 11:16:33 AM EDT
OK, this has been on my mind for some time now, and I've gotta get some more input on it.

Since a [i]smoothbore[/i] long gun has a minimum legal barrel length of 18.5" or so, and a [i]rifled[/i] long gun has a minimum legal barrel length of 16", What's the legality of the following, assuming "overall length" is kept at minimum or greater:

Mossberg 500, 18.5" cyl bore barrel.
[list][*]Shortened to 16".[/*]
[*][b]Rifled[/b] for use with Slugs only.[/*]
[*]Stamped on the barrel "Rifled Barrel, For Use With Slugs Only".[/*][/list]

With this barrel on it, would it be considered:
[list][*]An illegal configuration, sawed-off shotgun, since technically it could still chamber and fire a standard shotshell(understandably with a [i]horrible[/i] pattern).[/*]
[*]An illegal configuration, since it would now be a "Rifle of greater than .50 caliber".[/*]
[*][b]A legal loophole allowing a person to own a short slug gun for home defense.[/b][/*][/list]

A longer rifled barrel is available and allowable for slugs only, without it being considered a "Destructive Device", so it seems the "rifle greater than .50" would be moot.

Please comment...
Link Posted: 2/5/2001 11:59:18 AM EDT
Since the primary use of 12 gauge guns are as shotguns, your loophole would probably be just big enough to fit around your neck, IMHO.  Nice idea, though.

However, can I get a .585 Nyati or a .700 NE in California?  Are they DDs?  Will they give me a permit?
Link Posted: 2/5/2001 12:33:05 PM EDT
I would think that the chamber and barrel dimensions define it as a shotgun and not a rifle as defined by law.

Interesting question though.
Link Posted: 2/5/2001 8:29:16 PM EDT
Thanks guys. Anyone else? Who should I speak with to find out for sure? I'd really like to do this...
Link Posted: 2/6/2001 3:05:25 AM EDT
You might ask the BATF if you really want to know.
Link Posted: 2/6/2001 3:59:50 AM EDT
The only reason the ATF allows rifled 12 gauge shotguns (over 50 cal) to exist is that they are shotguns. Shortening to 16" is a no go. You can still put a shot shell in a rifled barrel and fire it - all it does is increase the dispersion.
Link Posted: 2/6/2001 10:40:47 AM EDT
Does this mean that when i use 22, 45 and 44 mag shot shells in my handguns then they are also short barreled Shot guns makes one think does it not.[:/]
Link Posted: 2/9/2001 2:54:23 PM EDT
Actually, there are pistols that are legal from a federal standpoint but banned at the state level. The Contender in 45LC/.410 is one such beast that is banned in PRK although legal elsewhere. Why? Because it's chamber allows the use of both 45 LC AND .410 shotgun shells. Ergo they consider it a shotgun.

Don't forget - its not science, its bureaucracy.
Link Posted: 2/12/2001 10:29:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2001 8:27:22 PM EDT
You would want to call the ATF Tech branch and get a ruling on paper.  I don't think that this is gonna fly though.  If you really want one, you can fill out an ATF Form 1, and after you get your tax stamp lop her off at 16", or shorter.  Perfectly legal then.
Link Posted: 2/13/2001 8:52:21 PM EDT
...you can fill out an ATF Form 1, and after you get your tax stamp lop her off at 16", or shorter.
View Quote

I was looking for an alternative to that, since I live in Kalifornia. We don't get to have the cool stuff here.[:(]
Link Posted: 2/14/2001 9:04:12 PM EDT
You're kidding right!?!  You can't register with the Feds, pay a $200 tax, and own an NFA weapon?  That is pure shit!!!!!!!!!!  WTF!!!!!!!  Man I hate to tell you, but I would be ditching that place ASAP!  Your living in gun owners hell, I thought paying the $200 tax was a load on an SBR, I guess I thought wrong.  Well, you can still call the ATF Tech Branch and get a ruleing on paper, can't hurt to try.  Sorry, wish I knew a way around this.
Link Posted: 2/15/2001 8:53:00 AM EDT
Just a little off the subject, but a valid question - I think.
We always hear about 1/4"too short, or bayonet lug, or folding stock, all will get you in trouble under certain circumstances, BUT who checks this stuff. I can't picture them (BATF,etc) coming into my home.  At the range I've never seen anyone pulled aside to have their weapon checked! Out in the field I've never had anyone even look like they would like to look at what I'm carrying!  Speeding ticket, or driving drunk are about the only way you would come under scrutiny.  So if yopur half way clear about what your doing, chances are no one will ever know if your holding a post ban with a bayonet lug and folding stock!!??
Link Posted: 2/15/2001 9:01:27 AM EDT
red dog, bad idea.  

99% of the illegal guns will never get discovered by agents.  It's the 1% that really screws ya.  I work pretty close at work with the BATF.  Wrong people to **** with.

Stay Legal.
Link Posted: 2/15/2001 9:11:42 AM EDT
Am I being NOT parnoid enough? Do these people really just wait to put the screws to you? Really what the hell does a bayonet lug have to do with chrime? These BATF are such jerks that they would actually make me into a felon, take my weapons, screw up my career and whole family for a 1/8 " piece of metal.
If so it's Orwells 1984 FOR SURE!And this ain't the America I fought for.
Link Posted: 2/15/2001 9:26:01 AM EDT
First off, I'm legal.
But do you see my point where a stupid law enforced by willing people is the next step to a "unlawful" law being enforced by "stupid" people. I've been a collectorof military rifles all my life, I'm law abiding (I even stop walking when the red hand says NO) I am careful with how I handle weapons, I served six years in Airborne Infantry -- I'm just a regular good all round guy!!! People who would activally go after someone with a bayonet lug (or folding stock) are the same as the Gestapo -- whatever.
Link Posted: 2/15/2001 12:29:55 PM EDT
Poor Randy Weaver, 1/4" too short got some family members killed.  That's all I have to say, on this subject.
Link Posted: 2/15/2001 12:58:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/15/2001 2:46:13 PM EDT
A .30 Carbine has to have an 18" bbl.?  Not 16"?  And an overall length of 26"?  I'm not sure about this, it might be a better question for the guys over on the MG fourum at subguns.com someone there will know for sure.
Link Posted: 2/22/2001 8:18:45 AM EDT
Actually a .30 carbine rifle would only have to have a 16" barrel and an overall of 26".  I wonder about the pistol grip and folding stock on one if it could not be proved that it was assembled as an assault weapon or existed as a complete assault weapon kit prior to 94'assault weapons ban.  No flame intended, just something to think about.

Link Posted: 2/22/2001 2:57:33 PM EDT
Good question Big Dozer 66, who would the burden of proof lie with in a court of law?  Seems like it would be extremely difficult to prove.
Link Posted: 2/22/2001 3:52:13 PM EDT
JUST GET THE Form 1, cut it down, and shoot what you want...

Link Posted: 2/24/2001 9:00:14 PM EDT
sate law you F*cked and it could be a sbr or a sbs or a DD depeneds on what the feds felt that day most likely a sbs since it uses shotshells instead of something like 40mm shells
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 7:33:01 AM EDT
Bishop, is that SBS yours? if so, where you get that stock?
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 10:11:09 AM EDT
Hey Paul,
We in Washington State can't own all the cool stuff either.
I would say we are two steps above Kalifornia but two steps below Arizona.

Link Posted: 2/25/2001 10:35:18 AM EDT
mattsd, I got that years ago from a mail order police supply store.  Can't remember where anymore.
It is a factory made"For Law Enforcement Only" Remington stock for the 870 series.

Link Posted: 2/25/2001 5:18:22 PM EDT
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